Have We Come to Expect Too Much From Nintendo?

Since the Nintendo 64, a lot of gamers have complained the following about Nintendo:

1. Always another Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, there are too many!
2. Where are the new IPs?
3. Too few of games, gamers need more!
4. Too Kiddy, I have outgrown them

While many of these complaints are legitimate, I feel that they have been stretched to almost mythical levels to where Nintendo really can do no right. This is highlighted by yesterday's media event when Nintendo showed off its truckload of games to the public. Among them was the sequel to 2007's GOTY, Super Mario Galaxy 2. This was met by some with great praise, but by others, criticism that Nintendo continues to milk Mario. Another title, Metroid: Other M, uses a hybrid control scheme that was met with mixed feelings. This, added to Sin & Punishment 2, rounds out Nintendo's list of "Gamer" games during the months May and June. Apparently this is not enough, because several people were simply not interested because they had outgrown Nintendo.

Perhaps this is true, but let me dive deeper into each category.

1. Nintendo Always Creates Another Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, There are Too Many!

Please ponder this:

MARIO

------- Super Mario 64 (1996) --------- 7 Years -------- Super Mario Sunshine (2002) ---------- 5 Years --------- Super Mario Galaxy (2007)

Modernized 3D Gaming (96% GR) ------------------- FLUDD-based gameplay (91% GR) ------------- Gravity-based Gameplay (97%)

RATCHET & CLANK

2002 (89% GR) ----------- 2003 (91% GR) -------- 2004 (91% GR) -------- 2005 (83% GR) --------- 2007 (89% GR) ------------- 2009 (88% GR)

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA

-------- 1998 (98% GR) -----2 years ----- 2000 (92% GR) ------ 3 years ------ 2003 (93% GR) ------- 3 years ----------- 2006 (95% GR)

PRINCE OF PERSIA

-------- 2003 (92% GR) ---- 1 year ------ 2004 (92% GR) ----1 year ---- 2005 (86% GR) ---- 3 years ---- 2008 (85%) --- 2 years --- 2010 (???)

METROID

------ 2002 (96% GR) ------ 2 years ------ 2004 (92%) ------- 3 years -------- 2007 (90%) ------------ 3 years -------------- 2010 (???)

HALO

- 2001 (95% GR) ------ 2004 (94% GR) ----- 2007 (93% GR) ----- 2009 (82% GR) ------------------ 2010 (85%) ---------------- 2010 (???)

So, really, are there that many main Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games? NO! They have just been around for longer. Between Nintendo's own Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy, 6 Ratchet & Clanks were made. Between WindWaker and Zelda Wii (maybe), 5 Prince of Persias were made, each getting worse. Metroid vs. Halo is pretty close, but I mention it because of the recent "Finish The Fight" followed by 3 more games. Let me also mention the changes in gameplay and art****between Mario and Zelda, and also Metroid reinventing itself for Other M.

2. Where are the new IPs?

This, in my opinion, is the biggest complaint that can be made against Nintendo. They have rabid fans wanting the next Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, but also the ones calling for something new. Well, for this argument, I'm going to provide a list of upcoming games that may act as buffers for those wanting new Nintendo experiences.

Upcoming New IPs

1. Xenoblade -- Monolith Soft.

2. The Last Story -- Mistwalker

3. Retro Studios New IP

4. Sora Studios (Smash Bros. Brawl) New Hardcore IP

Nintendo's new IPs since the start of the last generation (to the Western World):

• Pikmin
• Endless Ocean
• Animal Crossing
• Big Brain Academy
• Art st-yle
• Nintendogs
• Batallion Wars
• Advance Wars
• Warioware
• Wii brand
• Planet Puzzle League
• Chibi Robo
• Eternal Darkness
• Geist
• Tube Slider
• Magical Starsign/ Magical Vacation
• Many more Handheld games (Nintendo makes like Hundreds of new IPs for the Handhelds but for Consoles they couldn't risk that much)
• Custom Robo

3. Too few of games, gamers need more!

Nintendo has attempted to address this:

1. Changing Zelda art for a more "gamer" audience.
2. They secured exclusivity for Monster Hunter 3
3. They secured exclusivity for Dragon Quest X.
4. They are partnering with Team Ninja
5. They are partnering with Mistwalker
6. They bought out Retro Studios
7. They bought out Monolith Soft.
8. They are currently developing a Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Pikmin title.

If you are still complaining, then start buying the games for gamers. The fact that the industry turns to Nintendo for these games is ridiculous. What more could a company do? Nintendo is just about the only one providing AAA material on their consoles and yet the gamer complains that what they provide isn't enough. Well, perhaps it would be if you started buying games like:

1. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
2. No More Heroes 2
3. Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
4. MadWorld
5. World of Goo
6. Resident Evil 4
7. Okami
8. Zack and Wiki
9. Muramasa
10. Swords and Soldiers
11. Little King's Story
12. Trauma Center
13. Dead Space: Extraction
14. Rabbids Go Home
15. de Blob
16. Rune Factory: Frontier
17. House of the Dead: Overkill
18. Red Steel 2
19. Monster Hunter 3

Just pick one. I know most are not AAAA material, but several are deserving of play. There is a ridiculous amount of variety there, so just grab one for 20 bucks and enjoy it! Then, maybe, more hardcore material will come for the Wii and you can stop complaining.

4. Their games are too kiddy, I've outgrown them.

This is a matter of preference, one I don't understand. A good game is a good game... I'll touch on this later tonight, perhaps.

My Final Question is: Have We Come To Expect Too Much From Nintendo?

-- It Seems Nothing They Do Pleases Us.

1. When compared to any other company, they are by far the busiest of them all. No other single company compares to the amount they publish, develop, and manufacture.
2. They are among the best developers in the world.
3. They make tens of games every year.
4. They appeal to ages 5 to 95, all while spending most of their money on the Male, Ages 16-32 crowd. Hell, they don't even need us.
   
5. They secure exclusivity to great titles.
6. They buy out fantastic companies.
7. They are trying to create new, hardcore IPs, just not Nintendo EAD.
8. They almost always ship a quality product.

It's not expecting too much of nintendo as much as it is misplaced frustration due to a lack of games for the system. What's really lacking is the 3rd party, not the 1st party but people take it out on Nintendo, especially because they see Nintendo releasing games like Wii fit.

Whats funny about the whole Metroid thing, is it just made a recent comeback with the trilogy. There was no N64 Metroid.

the mario and sonic francises i dont like but most metroid games are solid

Nintendo's new IPs since the start of the last generation:

Animal Crossing
Advance Wars
Custom Robokansasdude2009

Falsity!

Animal Crossing is known as doubutsu no mori e+ (Animal Forest E+) in Japan, it's a port of doubutsu no mori (Animal Forest) from the Nintendo 64 with added support for the E-Reader.
Advance Wars is based on Japanese only Famicom Wars, dating all the way back to the Famicom days.
Custom Robo was also first introduced on the Nintendo 64, but again, only in Japan.

This is very well thought out though. We do ask too much of Nintendo, and they are certainly delivering quality games. The Wii just generally lacks the kind of third party support the other consoles are getting, primarily through significant hardware differences with its competitors.

I agree, but why count PSN games, and not WiiWare/VC/Gameboy/DS games? Why should a little Ratchet PSN game count to make your point. It's a bit off? I mean, on your first point we see no mention of Zelda games on DS, but later we see DS bail out the Wii by mentioning DS IP's like Nintendog's...:(

Other than that discrepancy, I totally agree with your points, as I love Metroid, Zelda, and Mario. I like the extra polish.

What hurts Nintendo is that they are focused on the new Non Gamer market as much as they are the Core. INf act, the Non Gamers get more love than the core, honestly. That's hurting Nintendo's core output as well. It's fine, it's excellent business, but it's not going to change anyone's mind.

Had I made the thread, I wouldn't have put DL titles on one system and not the other though.

----------

Also, you were incorrect about :

1. Custom Robo,
   
2. Animal Crossing,
   
3. Advance Wars,
   
4. Doshin the Giant

being new IP's starting from last generation....and why are you looking to last gen and DS games to bail out the Wii with regards to Nintendo Wii New IP's? Ah well, it's in good sport.:P

We haven't gotten to the fact the New IP's don't have the Star Quality of a Mario, Zelda, or Metriod as well. It's nice that Geist exist, for instance, but that didn't score that well, and there probably won't be any sequels. That's talking about GC games anyways. Why are we talking about GC New IP's in the first place. You know what I mean?:P

Nintendo's Reputation is due in large part to the Wii, why are we looking their handhelds and last generation to make a point about the Wii's Reputation? That won't convince anyone. Anyone can see the problems they have with Nintendo stem from the Wii, and sure we can bring last gen into the equation, and the DS into the equation, but that won't convince "Johnny gamer Wii hater" to like the Wii since your argument branches to last generation, and to the Handhelds he doesn't care about anyways.

Sure, we can look at 3rd parties new IP's on the Wii as well, but that's not Nintendo. They don't get credit for that, just as Sony or Xbox don't get credit for New IP's on their systems (Rockband, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, etc.) Sony and Xbox had nothing to do with.

Still, I'm glad to see this attempt, for sure...because I own a Wii and like it a lot. I just want to be clear, Nintendo is divided, that's the the problem the core have with them.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]Nintendo's new IPs since the start of the last generation:

Animal Crossing
Advance Wars
Custom RoboFragasnap

Falsity!

Animal Crossing is known as doubutsu no mori e+ (Animal Forest E+) in Japan, it's a port of doubutsu no mori (Animal Forest) from the Nintendo 64 with added support for the E-Reader.
Advance Wars is based on Japanese only Famicom Wars, dating all the way back to the Famicom days.
Custom Robo was also first introduced on the Nintendo 64, but again, only in Japan.

This is very well thought out though. We do ask too much of Nintendo, and they are certainly delivering quality games. The Wii just generally lacks the kind of third party support the other consoles are getting, primarily through significant hardware differences with its competitors.

You are right, but I mean here in the Western World.

Also, I don't think it's because of the hardware differences. I think it's because Nintendo scares off 3rd parties with its own software. The Gamecube didn't get a ton of support and it was in the middle between the Xbox and PS2 in terms of graphical capabilities. Perhaps Nintendo does too much that we ask and doesn't leave openings for 3rd parties.

I agree, but why count PSN games, and not WiiWare/VC/Gameboy/DS games? Why should a little Ratchet PSN game count to make your point. It's a bit biased. Other than that, I totally agree with your points, as I love Metroid, Zelda, and Mario.

What hurts Nintendo is that they are focused on the new Non Gamer market as much as they are the Core. That's hurting their output as well.

Had I made the thread, I wouldn't have put DL titles on one system and not the other though.

----------

Also, you were incorrect about :

1. Custom Robo,
   
2. Animal Crossing,
   
3. Advance Wars,
   
4. Doshin the Giant

being new IP's starting from last generation....and why are you looking to last gen and DS games to bail out the Wii with regards to Nintendo Wii New IP's? Ah well, it's in good sport.:P

Nintendo's Reputation is due in large part to the Wii, why are we looking their handhelds and last generation to make a point about the Wii's Reputation? That won't convince anyone. Anyone can see the problems they have with Nintendo stem from the Wii, and sure we can bring last gen into the equation, and the DS into the equation, but that won't convince "Johnny gamer Wii hater" to like the Wii since your argument branches to last generation, and to the Handhelds he doesn't care about anyways.

Sure, we can look at 3rd parties new IP's on the Wii as well, but that's not Nintendo. They don't get credit for that, just as Sony or Xbox don't get credit for New IP's on their systems (Rockband, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, etc.) Sony and Xbox had nothing to do with.

Still, I'm glad to see this attempt, for sure.

SolidTy

I used the wrong box-art for the Ratchet and Clank title, it's fixed now. I added "to the Western World" to the new IP and got rid of Doshin the Giant and Cubivore and a few others. This isn't just for the Wii, it's for Nintendo, but I was on a limited time frame to make this topic. I hope that answers everything.

As a video game developer, i think we have expected WAAAAAAAY too much from Nintendo. But as a system, i think those expectations are justified. Unless 3rd parties ever step up (which will likely never happen), we can expect that burden to fall on Nintendo.

Interesting point, the 360 has pretty much been in a 1st party drought since 2007 and no-one has realised. I think it was like Lost Odyssey in January 2008, to fable 2/banjo in Novermber 08to Halo ODST in Septmber 09 finally to Forza 3 in October 09. But the thing is that the 360 has plenty of 3rd party titles of equal magnituted that fill the void.

With Nintendo, they have around 5x as much 1st party but are lacking the 3rd party OF SIMILR MAGNITUTED to help fill those voids. Regardless of what happens Nintendo will never be able to sustain a system for an entire gen with high quality titles pumping throughout the year (and neither can the other 2). And from there, all blame is placed on Nintendo as people think they aren't doing enough when they're actually working overtime. So yah, we're expecting too much from them to develop, but we should still expect more from the system. If that makes sense.

I don't think any of those complaints are really worth addressing, except for the one about new IPs. It's nice that they have new IPs in development at some of their subsidiaries, but where are the new IPs they actually treat like AAA (in the real-world sense) games? Why are all their flagship titles from old franchises, or in the Wii ____ line? Cherokee_Jack

As a video game developer, i think we have expected WAAAAAAAY too much from Nintendo. But as a system, i think those expectations are justified. Unless 3rd parties ever step up (which will likely never happen), we can expect that burden to fall on Nintendo.

Interesting point, the 360 has pretty much been in a 1st party drought since 2007 and no-one has realised. I think it was like Lost Odyssey in January 2008, to fable 2/banjo in Novermber 08to Halo ODST in Septmber 09 finally to Forza 3 in October 09. But the thing is that the 360 has plenty of 3rd party titles of equal magnituted that fill the void.

With Nintendo, they have around 5x as much 1st party but are lacking the 3rd party OF SIMILR MAGNITUTED to help fill those voids. Regardless of what happens Nintendo will never be able to sustain a system for an entire gen with high quality titles pumping throughout the year (and neither can the other 2). And from there, all blame is placed on Nintendo as people think they aren't doing enough when they're actually working overtime. So yah, we're expecting too much from them to develop, but we should still expect more from the system. If that makes sense.

shutdown_202

As a video game developer, i think we have expected WAAAAAAAY too much from Nintendo. But as a system, i think those expectations are justified. Unless 3rd parties ever step up (which will likely never happen), we can expect that burden to fall on Nintendo.

Interesting point, the 360 has pretty much been in a 1st party drought since 2007 and no-one has realised. I think it was like Lost Odyssey in January 2008, to fable 2/banjo in Novermber 08to Halo ODST in Septmber 09 finally to Forza 3 in October 09. But the thing is that the 360 has plenty of 3rd party titles of equal magnituted that fill the void.

With Nintendo, they have around 5x as much 1st party but are lacking the 3rd party OF SIMILR MAGNITUTED to help fill those voids. Regardless of what happens Nintendo will never be able to sustain a system for an entire gen with high quality titles pumping throughout the year (and neither can the other 2). And from there, all blame is placed on Nintendo as people think they aren't doing enough when they're actually working overtime. So yah, we're expecting too much from them to develop, but we should still expect more from the system. If that makes sense.

shutdown_202

I don't complain that Nintendo continue to use the same franchises as Mario, Zelda, Metroid but what happened to other good franchises like F-Zero, Star Fox, Donkey Kong and others? I think they should focus more on those games because there are alot of people that want to see those games in the Wii. Miroku32

I don't complain that Nintendo continue to use the same franchises as Mario, Zelda, Metroid but what happened to other good franchises like F-Zero, Star Fox, Donkey Kong and others? I think they should focus more on those games because there are alot of people that want to see those games in the Wii. Miroku32

I think we have expected too much from Nintendo. Granted the Wii does have it's issues but the games are there. Then again there is this double standard for Nintendo games. If they try something different, the fans usually hate it but when they don't, it's considered a rehash (ex. Zelda).

BTW great post TC.

[QUOTE="Miroku32"]I don't complain that Nintendo continue to use the same franchises as Mario, Zelda, Metroid but what happened to other good franchises like F-Zero, Star Fox, Donkey Kong and others? I think they should focus more on those games because there are alot of people that want to see those games in the Wii. kansasdude2009

I don't complain that Nintendo continue to use the same franchises as Mario, Zelda, Metroid but what happened to other good franchises like F-Zero, Star Fox, Donkey Kongand others? I think they should focus more on those games because there are alot of people that want to see those games in the Wii. Miroku32

[QUOTE="Miroku32"]I don't complain that Nintendo continue to use the same franchises as Mario, Zelda, Metroid but what happened to other good franchises like F-Zero, Star Fox, Donkey Kongand others? I think they should focus more on those games because there are alot of people that want to see those games in the Wii. mitu123

So your proof that Nintendo doesn't just keep making the same games over and over again is to show that they do keep making the same games over and over again? Does not compute.

Proof that Nintendo isn't the only one milking its franchises doesn't let Nintendo off the hook for its over reliance on Mario and Zelda. Nintendo relies on Mario/Zelda (plus exercise/gimmick controls to sell its console). The important point is not that Mario/Zelda have been around longer than newer franchises – it's that Mario/Zelda have been the only thing that Nintendo has been giving its fans for a very, very long time – as is clearly shown by your pictures timeline.

And that is not even really what people are most complaining about – it is that Nintendo has been retreading its old stuff and the only new stuff it is giving are exercise games and party games. These are actually the new Wii IP s, but you totally overlook them in your list – where is Wii Fit and Generic Party Game 10,000? Those are the number one selling Nintendo games these days alongside Mario and Zelda.

The fact that even Nintendo fanboys want to pretend they don't exist says a lot about what is wrong with Nintendo these days.

To answer your question, people who criticize the Wii don't expect too much from Nintendo. They simply don't like the direction Nintendo is taking. In other words they are dissasppointed because they know Nintendo could do better in the kinds of games they like, but they know Nintendo won't because it has a different business plan and that plan focuses on games like WiiFit and Party Game X, Mario and Zelda. And that is about it.

Also, I'm not ignoring your list of worthy Wii games. I assume that all Nintendo fans have saved that list somewhere on their harddrives so they can cut and paste it in every post they make. It looks like the same list that is pulled out everytime people discuss lack of 3rd party development. Sadly the list hardly ever changes over the years.

F-Zero, Starfox, and Donkey Kong didn't sell that well last generation so they cut back on those franchises. Nintendo, I think, would do better to bring back an old franchise like Kid Icarus. It seems, with the exception of Mario, that all Nintendo franchises benefit widely from a prolonged recess of releases. Metroid Prime and Ocarina of Time are the poster children for my little theory, but its been the case with Starfox too.

So your proof that Nintendo doesn't just keep making the same games over and over again is to show that they do keep making the same games over and over again? Does not compute.

Proof that Nintendo isn't the only one milking its franchises doesn't let Nintendo off the hook for its over reliance on Mario and Zelda. Nintendo relies on Mario/Zelda (plus exercise/gimmick controls to sell its console). The important point is not that Mario/Zelda have been around longer than newer franchises – it's that Mario/Zelda have been the only thing that Nintendo has been giving its fans for a very, very long time – as is clearly shown by your pictures timeline.

And that is not even really what people are most complaining about – it is that Nintendo has been retreading its old stuff and the only new stuff it is giving are exercise games and party games. These are actually the new Wii IP s, but you totally overlook them in your list – where is Wii Fit and Generic Party Game 10,000? Those are the number one selling Nintendo games these days alongside Mario and Zelda.

The fact that even Nintendo fanboys want to pretend they don't exist says a lot about what is wrong with Nintendo these days.

To answer your question, people who criticize the Wii don't expect too much from Nintendo. They simply don't like the direction Nintendo is taking. In other words they are dissasppointed because they know Nintendo could do better in the kinds of games they like, but they know Nintendo won't because it has a different business plan and that plan focuses on games like WiiFit and Party Game X, Mario and Zelda. And that is about it.

Also, I'm not ignoring your list of worthy Wii games. I assume that all Nintendo fans have saved that list somewhere on their harddrives so they can cut and paste it in every post they make. It looks like the same list that is pulled out everytime people discuss lack of 3rd party development. Sadly the list hardly ever changes over the years.

Solori

Except the list has changed. And Nintendo is the only company doing different stuff right now.

So your proof that Nintendo doesn't just keep making the same games over and over again is to show that they do keep making the same games over and over again? Does not compute.

Proof that Nintendo isn't the only one milking its franchises doesn't let Nintendo off the hook for its over reliance on Mario and Zelda. Nintendo relies on Mario/Zelda (plus exercise/gimmick controls to sell its console). The important point is not that Mario/Zelda have been around longer than newer franchises – it's that Mario/Zelda have been the only thing that Nintendo has been giving its fans for a very, very long time – as is clearly shown by your pictures timeline.

And that is not even really what people are most complaining about – it is that Nintendo has been retreading its old stuff and the only new stuff it is giving are exercise games and party games. These are actually the new Wii IP s, but you totally overlook them in your list – where is Wii Fit and Generic Party Game 10,000? Those are the number one selling Nintendo games these days alongside Mario and Zelda.

The fact that even Nintendo fanboys want to pretend they don't exist says a lot about what is wrong with Nintendo these days.

To answer your question, people who criticize the Wii don't expect too much from Nintendo. They simply don't like the direction Nintendo is taking. In other words they are dissasppointed because they know Nintendo could do better in the kinds of games they like, but they know Nintendo won't because it has a different business plan and that plan focuses on games like WiiFit and Party Game X, Mario and Zelda. And that is about it.

Also, I'm not ignoring your list of worthy Wii games. I assume that all Nintendo fans have saved that list somewhere on their harddrives so they can cut and paste it in every post they make. It looks like the same list that is pulled out everytime people discuss lack of 3rd party development. Sadly the list hardly ever changes over the years.

Solori

You didn't read beyond the lists, did you?

My first argument is against the argument that there are too many Marios, Zeldas, and Metroids. There are not too many. Nintendo has given its fans more Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, F-Zero, Donkey Kong, etc. etc. over the years because that is what its fans ask for. However, there is also the group who want more IPs, and Nintendo is trying to answer that too.

You are expecting Nintendo to not only make games for its biggest buyers, the casuals, but also do everything you ever wanted. The fact is, it's the 3rd parties that make the new IPs with a major new 1st Part IP every now and then. The fact that Nintendo has so many IPs to make games for is testament to Nintendo's development over the years. Mario, Zelda, and Metroid just happen to be their oldest and most beloved Franchises.

Same with Square Enix -- Final Fantasy XIV and DQ X anyone? Oh wait, no one complains about those becuase they could go to any console! You complain about Nintendo because they are the only ones creating quality titles on the Wii. You are asking far too much from a single entity with a single head -- Saruto Iwata. They really are trying to meet your wants, but you need to turn to others to place the blame.

[QUOTE="Solori"]

3rd party development. Sadly the list hardly ever changes over the years.

Jamisonia

Except the list has changed. And Nintendo is the only company doing different stuff right now.

Nintendo isn't 3rd Party development, and don't get credit for other companies works.

Also, you aware of the stuff that's happening outside of Nintendo? That above statement is false.

It could be all this time you thought 3rd Party games on Wii were made by Nintendo, I'm not sure. But those guys deserve the credit.

BTW : I'm not a Nintendo hater at all, but I do believe in giving credit where it is deserved. Nintendo has done so much for the industry, I'm not going to bolster their accolades with other companies works while I'm at it. It's not far to Capcom, Sega, or whoever.

Kansasdude2009, system wars is far too dumb to understand what you are trying to say. Don't expect too much.

The fact that we compare, year after year, Nintendo titles to the rest of the Industry's titles is testament to how much we have come to expect from Nintendo. If you're ever going to compare the Wii to the 360 and PS3, you are basically comparing Nintendo + a few B 3rd party efforts (some very good efforts), to the rest of the industry... ALL AAA developers including the other 1st parties.

If you want more hardcore on Wii, if you want to see Motion+ work, if you want better online for Nintendo, if you want better graphics, if you want all of that stuff, turn away from Nintendo who is busy trying to please everyone, and look for those 3rd parties who are expanding online (Monster Hunter 3), and those trying to make Motion+ work (Red Steel 2). Nintendo can't do everything, but it turns out they do do everything, almost flawlessly too, I might add, leaving no room for 3rd parties.

In the mean time, stop your whining, for god's sake, and go buy some 3rd party titles.

Good topic, though not many will probably pay attention to it and post random troll comments.Haziqonfire

MP3 doesn't have a 90% on GR, or on this site. Not sure where you got that from.

Also, you included things like Halo Wars to illustrate the downward effect of that franchise but you didn't include things like Link's crossbow training into the Zelda franchise. Hmmm.

Here is the not-so-secret secret. For the first time in history, for the first time ever, the system that has sold the most has overall the LEAST number of AAA and AA games. That is why the Wii gets so much critique. That's it, no more - no less. People are accustomed to seeing the highest selling system also have the largest quality library.

That's why the GC (or the original XBox) didn't get Wii-levels of criticism. It also had a fantastic 1st party lineup and a few gems here and there but because of the overall lack of sales support people gave it a pass, it wasn't expected to have as many AAA or AA games as the PS2 had. Now that the positions are reversed people expect Nintendo to cultivate and actively encourage a vast library of quality titles. That has not happened.

If the PS2 had sold like it did but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

.

If the PS2 had sold like it didn't but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

RuprechtMonkey

It's not expecting too much of nintendo as much as it is misplaced frustration due to a lack of games for the system. What's really lacking is the 3rd party, not the 1st party but people take it out on Nintendo, especially because they see Nintendo releasing games like Wii fit.

hakanakumono

do you know what thats called?

been stupid and ignorant

those people simply talk without knowing their own system,

afterall sony released buzz and singstar

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

.

If the PS2 had sold like it didn't but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

Willy105

I was as well. The PS2 was constantly referred to as the system with the highest quality library, by far the highest number of quality titles. There will always be small sections of fanboys complaining (like countless people here) about system X and there will always be a small section of fanboys constantly defending system Y (like you do with the Nintendo systems,) that's just the nature of this forum. No one back then disputed the breadth of the PS2's library. I was an XBox player mostly and even I had to acknowledge it.

The fact is it sold the most.

The fact is it had (by far) the most AAA's and AA's.

For the Wii.

It has sold the most.

It has nowhere near the amount of AAA's and AA's history would suggest it should.

Those are facts. That is why the Wii is so criticized. It has all the sales and nowhere near the amount of support.

That's all, it is what it is.... but there's just no getting around it. Personally I couldn't care less, but it's hardly a mystery or anything...

MP3 doesn't have a 90% on GR, or on this site. Not sure where you got that from.

Also, you included things like Halo Wars to illustrate the downward effect of that franchise but you didn't include things like Link's crossbow training into the Zelda franchise. Hmmm.

Here is the not-so-secret secret. For the first time in history, for the first time ever, the system that has sold the most has overall the LEAST number of AAA and AA games. That is why the Wii gets so much critique. That's it, no more - no less. People are accustomed to seeing the highest selling system also have the largest quality library.

That's why the GC (or the original XBox) didn't get Wii-levels of criticism. It also had a fantastic 1st party lineup and a few gems here and there but because of the overall lack of sales support people gave it a pass, it wasn't expected to have as many AAA or AA games as the PS2 had. Now that the positions are reversed people expect Nintendo to cultivate and actively encourage a vast library of quality titles. That has not happened.

If the PS2 had sold like it did but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

RuprechtMonkey

As a dev what Nintendo is producing is fine. As a system they are behind the ball. Do people expect too much? No. Its actually that they expect what realistically is not going to happen. Nintendo is not going to start making mature games over their well known franchises. That is stupid when they have the most recognizable IPs in the history of gaming. They do not need to move into the dark games genre and the cinematic gaming way of thinking like people want. Get over that guys, its not what they want to do and they shouldn't have to either. People (mainly internet forums) think they somehow define how a company should act and what is acceptable output and what isn't. Sorry but that is wrong, the people who run the company and ALL of the consumers decide, not just you. Until you get that through your head, you will not be worth the effort. As for Nintendo producing the same thing over and over well no. Same concept, yes, same characters yes. same game? No, that's silly. You;'re going tosave the princess every game because that catalyst means no one is ever left out on story and it can be anyone's first game. Its an excellent design philosophy, you do not have to like it but you will eventually need to to stop *****ing about it.

When most of what is coming directly from Nintendo itself (that is, internal development studios), when mostly what they release is the next iteration in their 25 year-old IP, a bunch of software for their "new" audience and a few obscure titles... it just doesn't do it for me. I can easily admit that they still make high quality games, it is just they don't interest me anymore. I have gotten to the point in my gaming career where I'm always looking for new experiences, and not just another Mario platformer, Zelda adventure or Metroid action title. Granted, I am interested in seeing where Zelda is being taken and how this "new" direction for Metroid is going to end up... but Nintendo has barely done anything to impress me over the past 5-7 years.

The last Nintendo game(s) to truly impress me was the original Metroid Prime and its sequel Echoes. Everything else since then has been: "Oh... yeah, I guess that's pretty cool, maybe." I can see how diehard Nintendo fans love to eat up everything Nintendo throws out at them, but for me, it just isn't enough. Perhaps I hold them to too high a standard because I've been a fan for several generations... but if that was the case, wouldn't I still be at their feet lapping up everything that drops off the table?

[QUOTE="Willy105"]

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

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If the PS2 had sold like it didn't but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

RuprechtMonkey

I was as well. The PS2 was constantly referred to as the system with the highest quality library, by far the highest number of quality titles. There will always be small sections of fanboys complaining (like countless people here) about system X and there will always be a small section of fanboys constantly defending system Y (like you do with the Nintendo systems,) that's just the nature of this forum. No one back then disputed the breadth of the PS2's library. I was an XBox player mostly and even I had to acknowledge it.

The fact is it sold the most.

The fact is it had (by far) the most AAA's and AA's.

For the Wii.

It has sold the most.

It has nowhere near the amount of AAA's and AA's history would suggest it should.

Those are facts. That is why the Wii is so criticized. It has all the sales and nowhere near the amount of support.

That's all, it is what it is.... but there's just no getting around it. Personally I couldn't care less, but it's hardly a mystery or anything...

Links cross bow training is not a Legend of Zelda game. That's why its not called, "The Legend of Zelda". It like Halo Wars is a spinoff ( a damn fun spin off I might add).

As for your facts, I'm glad you dwell on numbers but here is a fact to. The majority of people who game do not care about multiple variations of letters. You shouldn't either. The other pro tip is that no system that has sold like the Wii or led a gen has received such little support by everyone in the industry. If you're annoyed, keep that annoyance directed at those who are not delivering.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

MP3 doesn't have a 90% on GR, or on this site. Not sure where you got that from.

Also, you included things like Halo Wars to illustrate the downward effect of that franchise but you didn't include things like Link's crossbow training into the Zelda franchise. Hmmm.

Here is the not-so-secret secret. For the first time in history, for the first time ever, the system that has sold the most has overall the LEAST number of AAA and AA games. That is why the Wii gets so much critique. That's it, no more - no less. People are accustomed to seeing the highest selling system also have the largest quality library.

That's why the GC (or the original XBox) didn't get Wii-levels of criticism. It also had a fantastic 1st party lineup and a few gems here and there but because of the overall lack of sales support people gave it a pass, it wasn't expected to have as many AAA or AA games as the PS2 had. Now that the positions are reversed people expect Nintendo to cultivate and actively encourage a vast library of quality titles. That has not happened.

If the PS2 had sold like it did but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

kansasdude2009

When it comes to that line of thought people aren't criticizing Nintendo for not supporting the core 1st party franchises they have always, are currently, and will always support but rather for creating and aggressively marketing a game environment that encourages the production of lesser-quality fare from 3rd parties.

This argument might have some merit. So many 3rd party publishers changed development style for their Wii offerings because they thought (because Nintendo led them to think)they had to tailor make those games to appeal to the newfound "new gamer" that makes up a huge portion of the Wii's demographic. THis gets back to the point I made earlier, this is specifically why the Wii is (for the first time in history) the console that has sold the most but has the least AAA and AA releases. Nintendo isn't to blame in the sense that they didn't create these lackluster games, and they aren't to blame in the sense that it is the responsibility of third parties to create and release high quality games for a given system, but they certainly cultivated and promoted the environment that created this situation. They dug that hole, other people are just dumping trash into it.

When most of what is coming directly from Nintendo itself (that is, internal development studios), when mostly what they release is the next iteration in their 25 year-old IP, a bunch of software for their "new" audience and a few obscure titles... it just doesn't do it for me. I can easily admit that they still make high quality games, it is just they don't interest me anymore. I have gotten to the point in my gaming career where I'm always looking for new experiences, and not just another Mario platformer, Zelda adventure or Metroid action title. Granted, I am interested in seeing where Zelda is being taken and how this "new" direction for Metroid is going to end up... but Nintendo has barely done anything to impress me over the past 5-7 years.

The last Nintendo game(s) to truly impress me was the original Metroid Prime and its sequel Echoes. Everything else since then has been: "Oh... yeah, I guess that's pretty cool, maybe." I can see how diehard Nintendo fans love to eat up everything Nintendo throws out at them, but for me, it just isn't enough. Perhaps I hold them to too high a standard because I've been a fan for several generations... but if that was the case, wouldn't I still be at their feet lapping up everything that drops off the table?

foxhound_fox

thats basicly it

you could say the same about sony and microsoft.

after a while playing the same games gets old. and we all know this

it might take a while as seen with nintendos frenchises, all those FPS or rechet and clank, GoW ect.

but in the end, they all turn to guitar hero

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

MP3 doesn't have a 90% on GR, or on this site. Not sure where you got that from.

Also, you included things like Halo Wars to illustrate the downward effect of that franchise but you didn't include things like Link's crossbow training into the Zelda franchise. Hmmm.

Here is the not-so-secret secret. For the first time in history, for the first time ever, the system that has sold the most has overall the LEAST number of AAA and AA games. That is why the Wii gets so much critique. That's it, no more - no less. People are accustomed to seeing the highest selling system also have the largest quality library.

That's why the GC (or the original XBox) didn't get Wii-levels of criticism. It also had a fantastic 1st party lineup and a few gems here and there but because of the overall lack of sales support people gave it a pass, it wasn't expected to have as many AAA or AA games as the PS2 had. Now that the positions are reversed people expect Nintendo to cultivate and actively encourage a vast library of quality titles. That has not happened.

If the PS2 had sold like it did but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

RuprechtMonkey

When it comes to that line of thought people aren't criticizing Nintendo for not supporting the core 1st party franchises they have always, are currently, and will always support but rather for creating and aggressively marketing a game environment that encourages the production of lesser-quality fare from 3rd parties.

This argument might have some merit. So many 3rd party publishers changed development style for their Wii offerings because they thought (because Nintendo led them to think)they had to tailor make those games to appeal to the newfound "new gamer" that makes up a huge portion of the Wii's demographic. THis gets back to the point I made earlier, this is specifically why the Wii is (for the first time in history) the console that has sold the most but has the least AAA and AA releases. Nintendo isn't to blame in the sense that they didn't create these lackluster games, and they aren't to blame in the sense that it is the responsibility of third parties to create and release high quality games for a given system, but they certainly cultivated and promoted the environment that created this situation. They dug that hole, other people are just dumping trash into it.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

When most of what is coming directly from Nintendo itself (that is, internal development studios), when mostly what they release is the next iteration in their 25 year-old IP, a bunch of software for their "new" audience and a few obscure titles... it just doesn't do it for me. I can easily admit that they still make high quality games, it is just they don't interest me anymore. I have gotten to the point in my gaming career where I'm always looking for new experiences, and not just another Mario platformer, Zelda adventure or Metroid action title. Granted, I am interested in seeing where Zelda is being taken and how this "new" direction for Metroid is going to end up... but Nintendo has barely done anything to impress me over the past 5-7 years.

The last Nintendo game(s) to truly impress me was the original Metroid Prime and its sequel Echoes. Everything else since then has been: "Oh... yeah, I guess that's pretty cool, maybe." I can see how diehard Nintendo fans love to eat up everything Nintendo throws out at them, but for me, it just isn't enough. Perhaps I hold them to too high a standard because I've been a fan for several generations... but if that was the case, wouldn't I still be at their feet lapping up everything that drops off the table?

Half-Way

thats basicly it

you could say the same about sony and microsoft.

after a while playing the same games gets old. and we all know this

it might take a while as seen with nintendos frenchises, all those FPS or rechet and clank, GoW ect.

but in the end, they all turn to guitar hero