Have We Come to Expect Too Much From Nintendo?

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

.

If the PS2 had sold like it didn't but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

Willy105

I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. The ratio of quality games to shovelware is very healthy on the PS2, where the Wii has a far less balanced software picture. PS2 had plenty of high quality games. As far as "interesting" goes, "interests" are never enough to qualify as arguments and the PS2 and PS1 both stand to have far better libraries than the current market leader.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

When most of what is coming directly from Nintendo itself (that is, internal development studios), when mostly what they release is the next iteration in their 25 year-old IP, a bunch of software for their "new" audience and a few obscure titles... it just doesn't do it for me. I can easily admit that they still make high quality games, it is just they don't interest me anymore. I have gotten to the point in my gaming career where I'm always looking for new experiences, and not just another Mario platformer, Zelda adventure or Metroid action title. Granted, I am interested in seeing where Zelda is being taken and how this "new" direction for Metroid is going to end up... but Nintendo has barely done anything to impress me over the past 5-7 years.

The last Nintendo game(s) to truly impress me was the original Metroid Prime and its sequel Echoes. Everything else since then has been: "Oh... yeah, I guess that's pretty cool, maybe." I can see how diehard Nintendo fans love to eat up everything Nintendo throws out at them, but for me, it just isn't enough. Perhaps I hold them to too high a standard because I've been a fan for several generations... but if that was the case, wouldn't I still be at their feet lapping up everything that drops off the table?

Half-Way

thats basicly it

you could say the same about sony and microsoft.

after a while playing the same games gets old. and we all know this

it might take a while as seen with nintendos frenchises, all those FPS or rechet and clank, GoW ect.

but in the end, they all turn to guitar hero

Sony is constantly offering new, unique experiences each generation. It changes itself all the time. No, you can't say the same thing about Sony.

[QUOTE="Willy105"]

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

.

If the PS2 had sold like it didn't but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

hakanakumono

I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe.

It isn't true, at all.

To claim that last gen "all talk" about the PS2 was about "its shovelware and lack of interesting games" is ludicrous.

Everyone knew that the PS2 had by far the most AAA's and AA's last generation, and it was talked about on this forum all the time. I'm not even a Sony or PS fanboy, wasn't back then either,and even I know his claim is pretty silly.

Nintendos First party is as good as its ever been in my opinion. Except Two things make it look like they aren't doing as well as they could be

A) Not enough new intriguing IPs

B) They no longer have rare or strong third party support. Third parties for the begginning of the gamecubes life somewhat made up for the lack of rare, and on the n64 rare made up for the lack of third party, but on the wii they seem like they are on there own and no matter how good one dev. is they really cant support an entire system on their own

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

When most of what is coming directly from Nintendo itself (that is, internal development studios), when mostly what they release is the next iteration in their 25 year-old IP, a bunch of software for their "new" audience and a few obscure titles... it just doesn't do it for me. I can easily admit that they still make high quality games, it is just they don't interest me anymore. I have gotten to the point in my gaming career where I'm always looking for new experiences, and not just another Mario platformer, Zelda adventure or Metroid action title. Granted, I am interested in seeing where Zelda is being taken and how this "new" direction for Metroid is going to end up... but Nintendo has barely done anything to impress me over the past 5-7 years.

The last Nintendo game(s) to truly impress me was the original Metroid Prime and its sequel Echoes. Everything else since then has been: "Oh... yeah, I guess that's pretty cool, maybe." I can see how diehard Nintendo fans love to eat up everything Nintendo throws out at them, but for me, it just isn't enough. Perhaps I hold them to too high a standard because I've been a fan for several generations... but if that was the case, wouldn't I still be at their feet lapping up everything that drops off the table?

thats basicly it

you could say the same about sony and microsoft.

after a while playing the same games gets old. and we all know this

it might take a while as seen with nintendos frenchises, all those FPS or rechet and clank, GoW ect.

but in the end, they all turn to guitar hero

Sony is constantly offering new, unique experiences each generation. It changes itself all the time. No, you can't say the same thing about Sony.

[QUOTE="Willy105"]

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

.

If the PS2 had sold like it didn't but at the same time had Wii-levels of AAA and AA games it would've been ridiculed. Often.

hakanakumono

I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. The ratio of quality games to shovelware is very healthy on the PS2, where the Wii has a far less balanced software picture. PS2 had plenty of high quality games. As far as "interesting" goes, "interests" are never enough to qualify as arguments and the PS2 and PS1 both stand to have far better libraries than the current market leader.

When it comes to that line of thought people aren't criticizing Nintendo for not supporting the core 1st party franchises they have always, are currently, and will always support but rather for creating and aggressively marketing a game environment that encourages the production of lesser-quality fare from 3rd parties.

This argument might have some merit. So many 3rd party publishers changed development style for their Wii offerings because they thought (because Nintendo led them to think)they had to tailor make those games to appeal to the newfound "new gamer" that makes up a huge portion of the Wii's demographic. THis gets back to the point I made earlier, this is specifically why the Wii is (for the first time in history) the console that has sold the most but has the least AAA and AA releases. Nintendo isn't to blame in the sense that they didn't create these lackluster games, and they aren't to blame in the sense that it is the responsibility of third parties to create and release high quality games for a given system, but they certainly cultivated and promoted the environment that created this situation. They dug that hole, other people are just dumping trash into it.

RuprechtMonkey

The third parties dug their own grave. As far back as 2005, Nintendo talked incessantly about their business strategy and the mentality they had adopted for the Wii and the DS. No one listened. They saw Wii Sports' success. They saw simplicity. It was unsophisticated with simple gameplay and simplistic graphics. The game was, in the industry's eyes, clearly inferior to the Core offerings. This new audience must be full of idiots, they reasoned. They are inexperienced, so any crap will sell to this idiot throng. No one paid any mind to the customer focus and A team behind it. No one paid any attention to the marketing. No one paid any mind to the new definition of quality that the game begun ushering in. Anyone who had read Blue Ocean Strategy and Innovator's Dilemma with any amount of thought could've seen what Nintendo did. Yet they were ignored. The Expanded Audience got burnt on endless tides of shovelware and the constant stream of bad "litmus test" games. The few good titles received practically no marketing. The Expanded Audience doesn't follow gaming media. If you don't advertise, the word of mouth (whether good or ill) doesn't start in any great quantity and the game is guaranteed to sell badly.

Then the devs cry that Core games don't sell on Wii, that they can't sell Nintendo numbers with their methods. They blame Nintendo for their own incapability.

I completely agree with you Kansas. We expect a lot from Nintendo and they deliver, you've shown that with the list of games and scores in the OP. However, no matter how much they deliver, we always expect more, mainly because they are such excellent developers.

Simply put, when you get the best for 15+ years you come to expect the best from there on out.

Nintendo is cursed.

Nintendo is slowing forcing their fans into the same group as 'Sonic the Hedgehog' and 'In Flames' fans, every time a new product is announced (or in Nintendo's case, a conference is announced) the fans become excited, with promise of return to former glory but are always disappointed with the end product, with dramatic failures. It looks to continue for a long time yet. I'd love to be proven wrong by Nintendo, Super Mario Galaxy was one of the finest games I've ever played, but I'm not going to get my hopes up anytime in the near future.-Feath-

[QUOTE="-Feath-"]Nintendo is slowing forcing their fans into the same group as 'Sonic the Hedgehog' and 'In Flames' fans, every time a new product is announced (or in Nintendo's case, a conference is announced) the fans become excited, with promise of return to former glory but are always disappointed with the end product, with dramatic failures. It looks to continue for a long time yet. I'd love to be proven wrong by Nintendo, Super Mario Galaxy was one of the finest games I've ever played, but I'm not going to get my hopes up anytime in the near future.Shinobishyguy

About the new IPs..anyone can make a ton of crap new games. Where's the Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted for the Wii?

And I laughed when you counted Halo Wars as Halo milkage but you leave out the endless Mario party and other zelda handhelds and what not. Typical.

Just to answer at your No. 1 point:

yes, it ends up being too many of the same titles because they come at the cost of making different games.

Althought there's a lot more Ratchet & Clank games coming out from Insomniac than Mario games from Nintendo, the R&C games doesn't come at the cost of investing in new IPs for Sony, while for Nintendo, the same isn't true.

Just look at the number of new IPs that came to the Wii and PS3 since the start of this gen, and how many are still to come (you can count the games directly developed by then or the ones they invested in as publishers). You'll see the gap there.

EDIT (to avoid double posting):

In fact i don't think that people expect too much from Nintendo.

It's a matter of not agreeing and disliking the direction Nintendo is going. Even thought it was never a sole "hardcore" oriented company, it was never this focused on the casual audiences, and to make it worst they lost important second party devs that helped build their image, like Rare and many others.

It's all based off of the third party developers. And the fact that Nintendo scared them away with motion controls and historically low sales

So instead most people blame Nintendo for this. And since most of their first party stuff is near-masterpiece-level, our expectations are always amazingly high

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="-Feath-"]Nintendo is slowing forcing their fans into the same group as 'Sonic the Hedgehog' and 'In Flames' fans, every time a new product is announced (or in Nintendo's case, a conference is announced) the fans become excited, with promise of return to former glory but are always disappointed with the end product, with dramatic failures. It looks to continue for a long time yet. I'd love to be proven wrong by Nintendo, Super Mario Galaxy was one of the finest games I've ever played, but I'm not going to get my hopes up anytime in the near future.-Feath-

TC, you include a halo spin-off but you forget to mention all of the mario spin-offs?

Excellent post. :D

Great post. Great points, 100% agree.

Yeah, I think we do. Seriously, last year, I was REALLY pissed that Nintendo at E3 09 did nothing but announce a new Metroid, Mario (which had their games already on Wii), and Zelda, but no Star Fox or F-Zero. In the end though, despite Star Fox being my favorite Nintendo IP, I kinda stopped looking forward to Star Fox Wii after Miyamoto talked about the popularity of the series. Not to mention, a lot of people say Star Fox is better off dead (which I don't agree with). So, yeah, we expect too much from Ninty.nintendoboy16

I love starfox too, i really do. Please tell me you liked Command! there must be someone else out there in this wide world that enjoyed command! I am so lonely.. *sniff* :D - controls were SUBLIME

Anyways, on topic, i think partially yes. But, i think alot of people just don't look towards nintendo anymore. They don't care about nintendo, they don't care what they do, and they don't like the nintendo style of things. Especially since nintendo makes games very much unlike the popular stuff on the 360/ps3. Alot of gamers really are looking towards the great graphics, HD visuals(for good reason, its very crisp!), move like games or games with extreme visceral violence and fraggin' and that's not what nintendo is really known for.Combine that with the incredible mainstream appeal of the DS and Wii, and you have alot of people who now even dislike nintendo. People hate popular stuff. Seriously, how many people have you heard hate on Harry Potter before even reading the books or seeing the films?

Of course, that's not to say there aren't plenty of nay-sayers that have good reason to! don't worry fox, sky and friends i'm not saying you're bias, stupid, blockbuster playin', frat boy freaks who just can't see the beauty of nintendo! :)

EDIT: oh, it's good to see you again kansas! it feels like its been ages since you posted in sw.

Sony is constantly offering new, unique experiences each generation. It changes itself all the time. No, you can't say the same thing about Sony.

hakanakumono

bwahaha so far this year cows have got a game made up of quicktime events and an online shooter. innovashun!

cows are still playing with a PS2 pad on their poorly made hardware. we're supposed to believe the PS3 is about new experiences? please

TC, you include a halo spin-off but you forget to mention all of the mario spin-offs?

skelebull3000

kansasdude2009

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]tok1879

Fox News needs more spinsters, did you apply yet?tok1879

Common sense is spin now?

its just third party that really is lacking nintendo is one of the greatest period

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Sony is constantly offering new, unique experiences each generation. It changes itself all the time. No, you can't say the same thing about Sony.

hy4k

no they dont offer no unique experiences all the time and if they do every system does as well since it is an upgrade of previous sytems. x360 is a diff experience from the xbox wii is different from the cube and s3 is different from the ps2 they all on the same boa with each other in new experiences then.

[QUOTE="tok1879"]Fox News needs more spinsters, did you apply yet?_Teron_

Common sense is spin now?

[QUOTE="tok1879"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]Willy105

It seems so and I hadn't realized it until recently but it goes back to the loss of Rare to MS..

"n" just lost so much ummm..spark I guess.

It's not expecting too much of nintendo as much as it is misplaced frustration due to a lack of games for the system. What's really lacking is the 3rd party, not the 1st party but people take it out on Nintendo, especially because they see Nintendo releasing games like Wii fit.

hakanakumono

1 resident evil 1

2 resident evil 0

3 dead space extraction

4 dead rising ctyd

5 crusin usa

6 indianapolis 500 legends

7 shaun white 2

8 red steel

9 alien syndromn

10 monopoly

11 ford racing off road

12 call of duty world at war

13 quantum of soalce007

14 call of duty 4 reflex

15 no more heroes 2

16 bloom box

17 bloom box 2

18 driver paralel lines

19 the godfather

20 marvel vs capcom

there thats 20 more and bam you got 40 , ,

on to kiddy bull

n64 titles that were not kiddy

goldeneye007- yea ok lets give 6 yr olds guns , does that sound an adult thing to do

perfect dark

duke nukem 64

doom 64

turok

quake

quake 2

turok 2

turok 3

turok rage wars

conker bad fur day -how many cursing was there

rainbow six

mission impossible

starfox

star wars

gamecube

star fox

star wars

starfox assult

timesplitters

timesplitters 2

hitman 2

serious sam 2

turok evolution

timesplitters 3

nightfire

goldeneye rogue agent

giest

metroid

resident evil

resident evil 2

resident evil 0

eternal darkness

resident eivl 3

resident evil 4

resident evil cvx

so if nintendo was kiddy in n64 era/gc era explain those!

if theres not enough games on wii explain how its got more games then 360 or ps3 overall ,

explain the reason for bc as well as virtual console ,

explain why wii is selling , the true reasons is because its different and it offers good games

at a value un matched

ps3 360 games cost 60 ,very rarely can you find one for 30 or less

wii games have mor games that cost 29-39 then 49 , ,

some even cost 19.99-9,99

so you guys are asking too much of everything , you want violence redsteel comes you ocmplain you want this you want that , im sorry but wait your dang turn i want stunt race to heck if im evergoign to see one because of this fps garbage ,,

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HALO

- 2001 (95% GR) ------ 2004 (94% GR) ----- 2007 (93% GR) ----- 2009 (82% GR) ------------------ 2010 (85%) ---------------- 2010 (???)

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kansasdude2009

Ok not to sound like a fanboy... But it seems odd (ok I'll use that word instead of fanboyish) that you would include Halo Wars and ODST in your argument even though neither game should be considered Main games in the franchise (one not even being in the same genre). But you exclude Mario Strikers, Mario Baseball, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Kart, Super Mario Deluxe ect.. ect..

For once would you fanboys atleast try and make a valid argument without shooting your credibility to crap..

Anyway, I do agree that it's not Nintendo's fault that a lot of new IP's aren't being explored. YOU the wii gamers who brag about the wii's lineup left and right aren't buying the Zak & Wiki's or the NMH's or the Dead Space Extractions.. YOU'RE the reason why 3rd parties don't feel obligation to give the wii 110% of their time.

[QUOTE="_Teron_"]

[QUOTE="tok1879"]Fox News needs more spinsters, did you apply yet?tok1879

Common sense is spin now?

His post. The only real flaw in the thing is having Halo Wars (and, if you wish, ODST) in the list of Halo titles. Even without those two, it comes to 4 Halo titles in 9 years, qite similar to Metroid's track record of 4 home console games in 8 years. Yet people complain far more about Metroid than they do about Halo. If you insist on calling his post spin, could you please specify where he's making things seem what they are not, and what's the reality, then?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It's not expecting too much of nintendo as much as it is misplaced frustration due to a lack of games for the system. What's really lacking is the 3rd party, not the 1st party but people take it out on Nintendo, especially because they see Nintendo releasing games like Wii fit.

mariokart64fan

1 resident evil 1

2 resident evil 0

3 dead space extraction

4 dead rising ctyd

5 crusin usa

6 indianapolis 500 legends

7 shaun white 2

8 red steel

9 alien syndromn

10 monopoly

11 ford racing off road

12 call of duty world at war

13 quantum of soalce007

14 call of duty 4 reflex

15 no more heroes 2

16 bloom box

17 bloom box 2

18 driver paralel lines

19 the godfather

20 marvel vs capcom

there thats 20 more and bam you got 40 , ,

on to kiddy bull

n64 titles that were not kiddy

goldeneye007- yea ok lets give 6 yr olds guns , does that sound an adult thing to do

perfect dark

duke nukem 64

doom 64

turok

quake

quake 2

turok 2

turok 3

turok rage wars

conker bad fur day -how many cursing was there

rainbow six

mission impossible

starfox

star wars

gamecube

star fox

star wars

starfox assult

timesplitters

timesplitters 2

hitman 2

serious sam 2

turok evolution

timesplitters 3

nightfire

goldeneye rogue agent

giest

metroid

resident evil

resident evil 2

resident evil 0

eternal darkness

resident eivl 3

resident evil 4

resident evil cvx

so if nintendo was kiddy in n64 era/gc era explain those!

if theres not enough games on wii explain how its got more games then 360 or ps3 overall ,

explain the reason for bc as well as virtual console ,

explain why wii is selling , the true reasons is because its different and it offers good games

at a value un matched

ps3 360 games cost 60 ,very rarely can you find one for 30 or less

wii games have mor games that cost 29-39 then 49 , ,

some even cost 19.99-9,99

so you guys are asking too much of everything , you want violence redsteel comes you ocmplain you want this you want that , im sorry but wait your dang turn i want stunt race to heck if im evergoign to see one because of this fps garbage ,,

Was all of that really a response to my post? What 20? "Kiddy" games? I own a gamecube. And Nintendo didn't even make RE, let alone half of the other titles you listed.

horrible DRM for DSiWarePandaBear86

Wait, what?

[QUOTE="Willy105"][QUOTE="tok1879"] Fox News needs more spinsters, did you apply yet?tok1879