How come next gen games, still has aliasing problems?!

it's just unacceptable :/

Because next gen consoles have been outdated for like 2 years now.

i feel ya.

but...the gpus from 2011 should have good AA system in them.

but...the gpus from 2011 should have good AA system in them.

new_gamer244

Graphics have changed a lot from 2011 to 2013.

First batch of games will always look like crap. Remember PDZ?

COD 2 First wave of games on the 360

Compair that to Halo 4 or GTA5.

Many next gen games use a deferred renderer, AA has always been a problem in games that use deferred renderers. DX11 allows MSAA in them but the performance hit is immense and probably too much for next gen consoles.

An alternative would be TXAA, but the performance hit here is pretty big as well.

>Lazy developers unskilled in making proper MSAA systems >Lower resolution caps being taken for more RAM-heavy shaders >Focus on fidelity over performance Could be any number of reasons.foxhound_fox

I hate when people say lazy developers.  These people are not lazy and actually work in a very high pressure, high turnover industry, that is entirely based on deadlines deadlines deadlines.  As someone who has worked in similar type environments where you must meet deadlines no matter what or people start questioning whether they should keep you around I can promise you these people are not lazy.  Corners are cut because some suite a hundred miles away at a board meeting decided that the game has to be released on this date no matter what with no delays.  It's like how people say COD devs are lazy.  No they are not lazy they are on a 18 month development cycle.   There is no time to innovate, no time to revamp engines, no time rapidly change the game when you are on a such a short development cycle.  So don't blame them.  They do what they can do during the time they have with the resources they have.  They would like nothing more than to take their time and make the game the right way.  But that just isn't what their employers allow for.    So will people stop calling devs lazy.  They probably work harder and longer at their jobs than you do.

Games aren't even out yet

Aliasing will always be an issue... hence we need to move away from it as a technology onto something more useable

Luckily our friends at DICE have a 10 - 15 year game plan on how to deal with rendering in the future

http://dice.se/publications/

Frostbite team are possibly the greatest software design team every to be formed... evidence in the link above 

COD 2 First wave of games on the 360

Compair that to Halo 4 or GTA5.

muffin200

[QUOTE="muffin200"]

COD 2 First wave of games on the 360

Compair that to Halo 4 or GTA5.

Davekeeh

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

[QUOTE="muffin200"]

COD 2 First wave of games on the 360

Compair that to Halo 4 or GTA5.

RedentSC

[QUOTE="RedentSC"][QUOTE="Davekeeh"]
Yep.

Cod 2 was amazing, still Cod 1 will remain the best cod out there

Davekeeh

I hate when people say lazy developers.  These people are not lazy and actually work in a very high pressure, high turnover industry, that is entirely based on deadlines deadlines deadlines.  As someone who has worked in similar type environments where you must meet deadlines no matter what or people start questioning whether they should keep you around I can promise you these people are not lazy.  Corners are cut because some suite a hundred miles away at a board meeting decided that the game has to be released on this date no matter what with no delays.  It's like how people say COD devs are lazy.  No they are not lazy they are on a 18 month development cycle.   There is no time to innovate, no time to revamp engines, no time rapidly change the game when you are on a such a short development cycle.  So don't blame them.  They do what they can do during the time they have with the resources they have.  They would like nothing more than to take their time and make the game the right way.  But that just isn't what their employers allow for.    So will people stop calling devs lazy.  They probably work harder and longer at their jobs than you do.NFJSupreme

 

COD 2 First wave of games on the 360

 

 

 

Compair that to Halo 4 or GTA5.

muffin200

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

[QUOTE="RedentSC"] Agreed... COD1 with United Offensive brought me kicking and screaming into online competitive multiplayer... never looked back since RedentSC

[QUOTE="RedentSC"][QUOTE="Davekeeh"]
Spend 1000+ hours in Cod 1 lol, great times, too bad the glory days of pc gaming are over

Davekeeh

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]I hate when people say lazy developers.  These people are not lazy and actually work in a very high pressure, high turnover industry, that is entirely based on deadlines deadlines deadlines.  As someone who has worked in similar type environments where you must meet deadlines no matter what or people start questioning whether they should keep you around I can promise you these people are not lazy.  Corners are cut because some suite a hundred miles away at a board meeting decided that the game has to be released on this date no matter what with no delays.  It's like how people say COD devs are lazy.  No they are not lazy they are on a 18 month development cycle.   There is no time to innovate, no time to revamp engines, no time rapidly change the game when you are on a such a short development cycle.  So don't blame them.  They do what they can do during the time they have with the resources they have.  They would like nothing more than to take their time and make the game the right way.  But that just isn't what their employers allow for.    So will people stop calling devs lazy.  They probably work harder and longer at their jobs than you do.foxhound_fox

One thing I don't do is get mad over the internet.   Don't confuse my long winded respone with anger.  I just have a lot to say about it because I see people say that a lot when it makes no sense when you actually think about it. I've also worked in similar type environments so I know what it's like to have a job entirely focussed on deadlines.   Anyway the point is the can't do everything to make the game look and things have to get sacrificed because they are employees not employers.   Basically don't blame the devs blame the suits.  The devs are just workers.  They do what they are told to do in the time frame they are given.   If  you are a cod dev you work in basically a COD sweatshop.  Crank out COD every 18 months or we find someone else than can.  Which is why when one of the devs for COD:Ghosts was asked why the engine hasn't changed much he looked the interview like dude if you only knew what my job was like.  He basically said they don't have enough time to do all that because they are not given enough time to do so.   Basically any dev who works for one of the big publishers is in a sweatshop. 

Basically any dev who works for one of the big publishers is in a sweatshop. NFJSupreme

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]Basically any dev who works for one of the big publishers is in a sweatshop. foxhound_fox

DICE are in a good position though.  EA has a three shooter rotation.  So at the least they have 2 1/2 years of dev time between games.  At activision they have a two shooter rotation.  So the people at IW and Treyarch have really 18 to 20 months of dev time.  It makes a difference.

Also if EA was to say, you know what, we only gonna focus on BF and Bad company and we want one of those released every year then guess how crappy those games are gonna end up?  Would you blame DICE for that?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]Basically any dev who works for one of the big publishers is in a sweatshop. NFJSupreme

DICE are in a good position though.  EA has a three shooter rotation.  So at the least they have 2 1/2 years of dev time between games.  At activision they have a two shooter rotation.  So the people at IW and Treyarch have really 18 to 20 months of dev time.  It makes a difference.

Also if EA was to say, you know what, we only gonna focus on BF and Bad company and we want one of those released every year then guess how crappy those games are gonna end up?  Would you blame DICE for that?

Moving up to 1080p never meant the jaggies will be gone. There's just lesser and less noticable ones. Heck, even in higher resolutions, there's bound to be some jaggies.

You still need antialiasing in combination with higher resolutions to reduce jaggies.

I was going to get one of the new consoles and then saw them in action... virtually no AA. They look like a slightly higher-res 360 or PS3 with a little more defined textures. Is that what 8+ years of graphics hardware can do?

I get that devs want to go for FPS and polygons rather than AA... but at this point, to me, I'd rather have a 360/PS3 game with 8x AA and a little more texture resolution than a million particle system that gets wasted on the background (i.e. not part of gameplay).

The Problem was never the consoles, just lazy developers and their enablers/fans,

This again?

How many times has the idiocy of comparing last gen first launch games vs later games with this new gen been pointed out by a ton of people?

There are HUGE differences between the start of last gen and the start of this one. Last gen there were radical changes in asset development, rendering API's AND in the way 3D hardware worked. This meant that there was literally NO talent out there with a full understanding of the new technologies and how to best leverage them. It's why launch titles looked like @ss and 3 years later they looked SO much better.

Fast forward to this generation launch. There are NO major changes in 3D API's, in 3D rendering tehcnolgies or in 3D hardware. There is PLENTY of talent available with the skillset to take advantage of modern hardware. To think the gap will be ANYWHERE near what it was last gen, is to show how ignorant you are of 3D rendering and it's history.

About the only things left to figure out this gen is just how to best utilize compute on GPU's, better parallelization of the renderer in terms of CPU loads, and perhaps something to be figured out in terms of low latency, pure GPU games - almost certainly to benefit VR on the PC and not consoles.

Things will improve, and specially things that compute can help with will improve, but please stop with the idiot meme of "Just look at last gen!! This will happen again!" It's nonsense.

^^^This. Devs have been working on this sort of hardware for years on the PC. They're familiar as **** with it, unlike this last gen where the 360 had its own unique API (not DX11) and the PS3 had its own custom architecture.

Oh, and Halo 4 doesn't look miles ahead. It just a shit load of bloom.

Launch games.

As for anti-aliasing:

In order to really get rid of it you need to tackle geometry aliasing, texture aliasing, transparency aliasing, sub-pixel aliasing, shader aliasing and you'll probably need to take temporal aliasing into account as well.

It's a hard problem to solve. Durante from NeoGaff (and famous for fixing bad PC ports like Dark Souls) recently posted a really interesting article on aliasing and it concludes with a few possibilities for the future: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=98309768