Hypothetical Question: If Call Of Duty didn't exist...

Would games like Killzone 2 have sold better?

Don't get me wrong. I own the game. I like the game a lot. I'm just trying to get the general gamer's mentality down in terms of why it didn't sell more. If you're looking for the inspiration for this thread, it was El Presador's rant about Killzone 2 not selling as much as it could because of the controls. Many people have said they turned them off from the game. He also mentions (like so many people do) that Call Of Duty "nailed the controls." Now I know the guy's a character that's essentially trolling and trying to get people riled up, but he actually makes a decent point.

I know fanboys want to think that sales of over 2 million copies is a fail (Hint: It's NOT), but many people say it would've sold more had the controls felt like Call Of Duty. Some people think that the weighted controls and lack of much in the way of aim assist are the game's strengths. Personally, I like that the game had its own distinct feel. Not every FPS has to play like Call Of Duty.

So my question is: If Call Of Duty didn't exist, do you think Killzone 2 would've sold better?

OR

Would Killzone 2 have sold better if people had the OPTION to have the controls feel like Call Of Duty?

I think it would have sold a lot better. Not only Killzone 2 but a lot of other games.

Resistance: Fall of Man wouldn't have died in 2007

and Resistance 2 would've been a lot more awesome (instead of just trying to copy COD4)

Buda bump-bump-bump.

That's basically my point. I'm trying to figure out if it would sell better if it had no basis for comparison or if would sell better if they had COD controls as an option (I mean the feel. I know about Alternate 2.).

If CoD didn't exist, we'd just be playing Medal of Honour: Modern Warfare instead.

Any console shooting game has crappy controls compared to my lovely mouse and keyboard. :PDragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]Any console shooting game has crappy controls compared to my lovely mouse and keyboard. :PArach666

Touché, Hermit. Touché. ;)

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]Any console shooting game has crappy controls compared to my lovely mouse and keyboard. :PRyan_Som

Touché, Hermit. Touché. ;)

KZ2 not doing as well as it was hyped to has nothing to do with COD or any other franchise.

Overeact much? The controls were fine. You chang it anyways so what's the big deal?

KZ2 not doing as well as it was hyped to has nothing to do with COD or any other franchise.

tbolt76

Then what's your reason, sir? You gave a claim but no proof. I'm not disputing your claim. I'm just saying without a proof you have no argument.

Was it controls? The gameplay? The campaign? The MP? The fact that it's an exclusive? It won Best Multiplayer Game this past year beating out Modern Warfare 2, so that has to mean it's good for something.

Overeact much? The controls were fine. You chang it anyways so what's the big deal?

sanim02

I'm not overeacting. I LIKE the controls. Plus, I've owned the game since launch. I'm aware of both Alternate 2 and the High Precision mode, but people still complain. I'm trying to find out if people disliked the way the controls "felt" so much that the game didn't sell as much as some other FPSs, if people just think Call Of Duty is a much better series, or if people just think Killzone 2 is a terrible game.

I'm inclined to think it's more of the first 2 rather than the latter (although I've heard that around here, too).

Two answers. I thought the controls were fine, after they added the precision they were better. It would have also been more popular if it played like COD because it would have been easier to play. Some people don't want to play a difficult game, and a lot of people only play COD and nothing else, just as many only play Madden or Gran Turismo.

I think KZ2 was pretty popular among gamers, while COD is played by people who play COD.

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]Any console shooting game has crappy controls compared to my lovely mouse and keyboard. :PRyan_Som

Touché, Hermit. Touché. ;)

I can see how that's true if you're used to a m/kb setup, but I hate using a mouse to aim, so that is definitely a matter of preference.

I find it funny how you are trying to attribute Killzone 2's lackluster controls and gameplay to the existence of Call of Duty. Killzone 2 has bad controls and didn't catch on too well because it is not that good of a game. Sure the graphics look good, but the core elements of the shooter are broken with sub-par controls and uninspiring gameplay thus it is not a good game to play. Please don't try to say that Call of Duty makes Killzone 2 a bland game when the fact of the matter is that Killzone 2 makes Killzone 2 an average shooter.

@ Pug-Nasty

1st Comment:
Totally agree. It's been my experience that people who really like Call Of Duty ONLY play Call Of Duty. There aren't really any other FPSs exactly like it, which is good. We need variety! Killzone 2 was lauded by critics, so it's not like it's a bad game. It holds a 91 on Metacritic and scored a 9.0 here. At its core the multiplayer is fun and varied with the mission structure changing back to back. I just think people that only play Call Of Duty get used to constantly being rewarded for everything.

2nd Comment:
It's kind of a moot point with the PS3. If you prefer keyboard and mouse, FragFX and FRAGnStein both offer ways to combine the best of analog movement with mouse accuracy. I plan on picking a FRAGnStein up at some point if for nothing else other than to check it out.

The controls in KZ2 were awful and what stopped me playing the game. Your right, COD controls are brilliant but the style of MW2 multiplayer sucked. I don't see why all FPS's don't use the same control scheme as COD.gamebreakerz__

[QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"]The controls in KZ2 were awful and what stopped me playing the game. Your right, COD controls are brilliant but the style of MW2 multiplayer sucked. I don't see why all FPS's don't use the same control scheme as COD.peaceoutmedusa

I find it funny how you are trying to attribute Killzone 2's lackluster controls and gameplay to the existence of Call of Duty. Killzone 2 has bad controls and didn't catch on too well because it is not that good of a game. Sure the graphics look good, but the core elements of the shooter are broken with sub-par controls and uninspiring gameplay thus it is not a good game to play. Please don't try to say that Call of Duty makes Killzone 2 a bland game when the fact of the matter is that Killzone 2 makes Killzone 2 an average shooter.

DropTarget

This is all I'm looking for: Opinions from gamers who've played it.

Personally, I felt the SP campaign for Killzone 2 was pretty intense and epic. The story for the Killzone world is actually really good, the developers just seem to be bad at telling it. In terms of story and the like, Call Of Duty usually wins.

I prefer Killzone's MP just because it's pretty much entirely skill based. No perks to compensate for dying, no guns absent of recoil, and the maps are some of the most balanced I've seen in any FPS.

Then again, I feel like Killzone 2's MP falls more in line with the Battlefield games more so than Call Of Duty. Maybe that's why I like it. I prefer the Battlefield games so that in turn extends to Killzone.

I can see why people would see Killzone as bland compared to COD if you're into run-and-gun, lone wolf style gameplay. But for every person that thinks KZ2 or the BF games are bland, there's someone who thinks the COD games are bland for the same reason that they're praised.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"][QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"]The controls in KZ2 were awful and what stopped me playing the game. Your right, COD controls are brilliant but the style of MW2 multiplayer sucked. I don't see why all FPS's don't use the same control scheme as COD.DropTarget

[QUOTE="DropTarget"][QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] lol. Do any of us know about videogames anymore??? You can change the control scheme in the settings of virtually any game. End of thread.peaceoutmedusa

Alternate 2 is identical to COD.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure DropTarget is talking about the "feel" of the controls. Even with High Precision enabled the controls don't feel like COD which some would describe as tight, light, floaty, or over responsive for quick turning. People said it was aim lag but Guerilla insisted that this was the intention to give the play a sense of weight.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"][QUOTE="DropTarget"] Sure, you can change the control scheme in Killzone 2, but when each available option is terrible, there is not much you can take out of it other than the game has terrible controls.Ryan_Som

Alternate 2 is identical to COD.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure DropTarget is talking about the "feel" of the controls. Even with High Precision enabled the controls don't feel like COD which some would describe as tight, light, floaty, or over responsive for quick turning. People said it was aim lag but Guerilla insisted that this was the intention to give the play a sense of weight.

On the contrary, I think games should strive to be unique. I like the way Killzone 2 plays and feels. I like the way Battlefield games play and feel. Hell, I thought the most recent Wolfenstein game was decent. Same goes for gameplay in MAG.

I'm just saying every FPS doesn't have to play like Call Of Duty to be good.

[QUOTE="tbolt76"]

KZ2 not doing as well as it was hyped to has nothing to do with COD or any other franchise.

Ryan_Som

Then what's your reason, sir? You gave a claim but no proof. I'm not disputing your claim. I'm just saying without a proof you have no argument.

Was it controls? The gameplay? The campaign? The MP? The fact that it's an exclusive? It won Best Multiplayer Game this past year beating out Modern Warfare 2, so that has to mean it's good for something.

If Call of Duty didn't exist there would still be Battlefield, Halo, Half-Life, Doom, etc...

On the contrary, I think games should strive to be unique. I like the way Killzone 2 plays and feels. I like the way Battlefield games play and feel. Hell, I thought the most recent Wolfenstein game was decent. Same goes for gameplay in MAG.

I'm just saying every FPS doesn't have to play like Call Of Duty to be good.

Ryan_Som

[QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

On the contrary, I think games should strive to be unique. I like the way Killzone 2 plays and feels. I like the way Battlefield games play and feel. Hell, I thought the most recent Wolfenstein game was decent. Same goes for gameplay in MAG.

I'm just saying every FPS doesn't have to play like Call Of Duty to be good.

DropTarget

The only thing I could suggest is giving the game a second go with either a FragFX or FRAGnStein controller. I'm not really sure how different it would feel. It'd probably still have the weight to it, so I doubt it'd be that much better for you.

I heard the same complaint about Borderlands on PC. People saying that the aiming felt like it was set up for consoles and you had to do some tweaking to get it to feel more like standard mouse controls.

[QUOTE="DropTarget"][QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

On the contrary, I think games should strive to be unique. I like the way Killzone 2 plays and feels. I like the way Battlefield games play and feel. Hell, I thought the most recent Wolfenstein game was decent. Same goes for gameplay in MAG.

I'm just saying every FPS doesn't have to play like Call Of Duty to be good.

Ryan_Som

The only thing I could suggest is giving the game a second go with either a FragFX or FRAGnStein controller. I'm not really sure how different it would feel. It'd probably still have the weight to it, so I doubt it'd be that much better for you.

I heard the same complaint about Borderlands on PC. People saying that the aiming felt like it was set up for consoles and you had to do some tweaking to get it to feel more like standard mouse controls.

[QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

[QUOTE="tbolt76"]

KZ2 not doing as well as it was hyped to has nothing to do with COD or any other franchise.

tbolt76

Then what's your reason, sir? You gave a claim but no proof. I'm not disputing your claim. I'm just saying without a proof you have no argument.

Was it controls? The gameplay? The campaign? The MP? The fact that it's an exclusive? It won Best Multiplayer Game this past year beating out Modern Warfare 2, so that has to mean it's good for something.

I'm not saying Call Of Duty caused KZ2 not to sell. I'm saying that KZ2 didn't sell because it didn't play like Call Of Duty. Two different ideas.

I'm trying to find out if the reason people didn't like KZ2 because it didn't control like COD or if they didn't like it just because they thought it was a crappy game.

Basically it's a question of if they played the same, would KZ2 have sold better? Or if COD controls and response didn't exist would it have sold better due to having no basis for comparison? Would it have sold better if it wasn't exclusive?

I'm just trying to see what people's views are on what could've been done to increase the game's sales. Imagine YOU'RE the publisher. What would you have suggested they do differently?

^ Yet another plausible answer.

They did advertise it, just not as heavily as Uncharted 2 or God Of War III. Still, more advertising never hurt anyone.

Was it controls? The gameplay? The campaign? The MP? The fact that it's an exclusive? It won Best Multiplayer Game this past year beating out Modern Warfare 2, so that has to mean it's good for something.

Ryan_Som

Doesn't mean much if no one is actually playing it online. MW2 crushes KZ2 in the number of people that play and enjoy it.

I hated the lag. Finally found out how to turn it off but devs shouldn't have had lag as default in the first place. Origami_Kill3r

[QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

Was it controls? The gameplay? The campaign? The MP? The fact that it's an exclusive? It won Best Multiplayer Game this past year beating out Modern Warfare 2, so that has to mean it's good for something.

GrannyGoat

Doesn't mean much if no one is actually playing it online. MW2 crushes KZ2 in the number of people that play and enjoy it.

Thanks for commenting on the Effect and not the Cause. I'm kinda looking for the latter here, Ace. ;)

[QUOTE="Origami_Kill3r"]I hated the lag. Finally found out how to turn it off but devs shouldn't have had lag as default in the first place. Crispenz

No. SONY didn't do their part marketing it.

Had it been MS, it would have sold huge amounts. It's far better then COD anyway.

What's with this idea that Killzone was some sort of failure:?

This doesn't belong is System Wars.

This doesn't belong is System Wars.

Hickamie14

Many things don't belong in System Wars.

Where then? The PS3 Forums? General Game Discussion?

What's with this idea that Killzone was some sort of failure:?

DanteSuikoden

That's NOT the idea. People like to THINK that it is; I'm saying it's not.

In my eyes, Killzone 2 is a great game worthy of its AAA score. Many people like to talk about sales when it comes to the quality of that game. What I'm saying is that the game is quality, but it didn't sell as much as some other heavy hitters even though by some accounts it's of equal or better quality.

My question to those in the former party is what they think could've been done differently for it to sell even more copies. Many people said it had bad controls. I disagree. Some people say it didn't have enough advertising. Some people say because it was a PS3 exclusive and not an Xbox 360 exclusive. I'm trying to find out if people think it's the controls, the gaming public, or the advertising that's holding it back from greater things.

Basically this is a question in response to those who talk about Killzone's community being dead. Assuming that's true, then WHY is it true?

[QUOTE="tbolt76"][QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

Then what's your reason, sir? You gave a claim but no proof. I'm not disputing your claim. I'm just saying without a proof you have no argument.

Was it controls? The gameplay? The campaign? The MP? The fact that it's an exclusive? It won Best Multiplayer Game this past year beating out Modern Warfare 2, so that has to mean it's good for something.

Ryan_Som

I'm not saying Call Of Duty caused KZ2 not to sell. I'm saying that KZ2 didn't sell because it didn't play like Call Of Duty. Two different ideas.

I'm trying to find out if the reason people didn't like KZ2 because it didn't control like COD or if they didn't like it just because they thought it was a crappy game.

Basically it's a question of if they played the same, would KZ2 have sold better? Or if COD controls and response didn't exist would it have sold better due to having no basis for comparison? Would it have sold better if it wasn't exclusive?

I'm just trying to see what people's views are on what could've been done to increase the game's sales. Imagine YOU'RE the publisher. What would you have suggested they do differently?

^ But make it more interesting how? I'm all for criticizing things, but at least make it constructive criticism. "It sucks" or "Make it more interesting" isn't exactly helpful feedback.

Pretend I work for Guerilla Games. You're telling me my game isn't interesting. Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But WHY do you feel that way?

i think i know who the TC is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTPkPXiN6kA