I don't think Nintendo should be blamed for what it is today

Blame the so-called fans who abandoned them. The sales of the GC were disastrous. Their fans went to the ps2 and Xbox, and that is why Nintendo changed their marketing strategy. Things would be completely different if the GC had a larger install base.

Blame the so-called fans who abandoned them. The sales of the GC were disastrous. Their fans went to the ps2 and Xbox, and that is why Nintendo changed their marketing strategy. Things would be completely different if the GC had a larger install base.

Pices

Forgive me for abbandoning nintendo but im a gamer not a casual. and Im not the biggest fan of shovelware either. Were you just not around for nintendos glory days?

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

ActicEdge

Gamecube's sales may have been bad, but the Wii is still worse than the Cube. By that, I mean less support from both third (which is worse than last gen) and first. Last gen was less third party, but more first party, but that's still better than this gennintendoboy16

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

ActicEdge

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

Pices

Gamecube's sales may have been bad, but the Wii is still worse than the Cube. By that, I mean less support from both third (which is worse than last gen) and first. Last gen was less third party, but more first party, but that's still better than this gennintendoboy16

The Cube failed because it wasn't a wanted system and was over shadowed by the Box and PS2. It doesn't really matter, ultimately it was not a system people wanted. ITts not abandonment, its called Nintendo should make a more desirable system next time and they obviously did.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

Pices

I can't see into the future so I don't know. Would Iwata be president, would Gamecube success been with or without third parties? You're asking me to predict blind. That isn't something I can'trealistically do and its irreleavnt to what actually panned out so it doesn't matter.

Because people didn't buy the Gamecube you blame consumers for whats happening to Nintendo? Its up to the company to want consumers to buy their product.

No, blame Nintendo for mistreating 3rd party developers during the SNES era and gloating about it. And blame Nintendo for harsh censorship during that era. And blame Nintendo for producing a cartridge based system. Nintendo was the nail in their own coffin as far as game library goes. They've never recovered.

Now you can blame Nintendo for releasing an underpowered system that focused on motion control. It was a very smart business decision, but as far as procuring a substantial game library, it's been disastrous for the company.

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

I can't see into the future so I don't know. Would Iwata be president, would Gamecube success been with or without third parties? You're asking me to predict blind. That isn't something I can'trealistically do and its irreleavnt to what actually panned out so it doesn't matter.

No, blame Nintendo for mistreating 3rd party developers during the SNES era and gloating about it. And blame Nintendo for harsh censorship during that era. And blame Nintendo for producing a cartridge based system. Nintendo was the nail in their own coffin as far as game library goes. They've never recovered.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

No, blame Nintendo for mistreating 3rd party developers during the SNES era and gloating about it. And blame Nintendo for harsh censorship during that era. And blame Nintendo for producing a cartridge based system. Nintendo was the nail in their own coffin as far as game library goes. They've never recovered.

Pices

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] Answer me this, would Nintendo be completely different now if the GC's sales were successful?Pices

I can't see into the future so I don't know. Would Iwata be president, would Gamecube success been with or without third parties? You're asking me to predict blind. That isn't something I can'trealistically do and its irreleavnt to what actually panned out so it doesn't matter.

Wrong. First of all, if I just said I can't realistically comment on a theorectical situation, why would you go and make a comment on it? Second, Nintendo made more money last gen then Sony did, they had money, they chose not to use it. Third, Nintendo is Nintendo, why does it matter whether SW hardcore sel proclaimed gamers like it or not? Its really irrelevant either way. But you can't blame the consumer for the failure of a company or product, ever.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

No, blame Nintendo for mistreating 3rd party developers during the SNES era and gloating about it. And blame Nintendo for harsh censorship during that era. And blame Nintendo for producing a cartridge based system. Nintendo was the nail in their own coffin as far as game library goes. They've never recovered.

Pices

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

No, blame Nintendo for mistreating 3rd party developers during the SNES era and gloating about it. And blame Nintendo for harsh censorship during that era. And blame Nintendo for producing a cartridge based system. Nintendo was the nail in their own coffin as far as game library goes. They've never recovered.

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

No, blame Nintendo for mistreating 3rd party developers during the SNES era and gloating about it. And blame Nintendo for harsh censorship during that era. And blame Nintendo for producing a cartridge based system. Nintendo was the nail in their own coffin as far as game library goes. They've never recovered.

Ragnarok1051

The Wii basically did. Soo did the PS3 and the 360. Its entirely possible.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] I'm talking about the GC generationPices

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

I can't see into the future so I don't know. Would Iwata be president, would Gamecube success been with or without third parties? You're asking me to predict blind. That isn't something I can'trealistically do and its irreleavnt to what actually panned out so it doesn't matter.

Wrong. First of all, if I just said I can't realistically comment on a theorectical situation, why would you go and make a comment on it? Second, Nintendo made more money last gen then Sony did, they had money, they chose not to use it. Third, Nintendo is Nintendo, why does it matter whether SW hardcore sel proclaimed gamers like it or not? Its really irrelevant either way. But you can't blame the consumer for the failure of a company or product, ever.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] I'm talking about the GC generationPices

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

Ragnarok1051

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] Its simple logic. If the GC was successful, then Nintendo wouldn't appeal to casual gamers much because the core ones are there. With the GC's sales, they had to make a weaker hardware.Pices

Wrong. First of all, if I just said I can't realistically comment on a theorectical situation, why would you go and make a comment on it? Second, Nintendo made more money last gen then Sony did, they had money, they chose not to use it. Third, Nintendo is Nintendo, why does it matter whether SW hardcore sel proclaimed gamers like it or not? Its really irrelevant either way. But you can't blame the consumer for the failure of a company or product, ever.

Financial statements don't lie.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] I'm talking about the GC generationPices

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

No, it never did because it always had a ton of non-shovelware high quality titles.

And it still stands. The Gamecube didn't see everyone moving over to the Gamecube on mass from the Playstation, because, why move? The consumers were eating Playstation up and that's why the PS2 probably has the greatest console library to date, only rivaled by the SNES. What's interesting is that Sony and Nintendo both screwed themselves over in their most successful generation, and ended up being shoved out of 1st place.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="Pices"] And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="Pices"] And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Pices"]And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

PS2 had enough amazing games to justify some shovelware no one cares about, but because of the mini-game fad sprung by Wii-Sports, the Wii has far more percentage wise.110million

Do you play shovelware regardless of the percentage? If not why is this an isue?

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="Pices"] And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

That's false. The Playstation had far more 3rd party support than the N64. Japanese 3rd parties especially barely produced anything at all for the N64. They practically moved en mass to the PS1 and that's why the PS1 procured such a great library.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="Pices"] And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

Uh, people buy what they want. Its called having a value of money not abandonment. Its obvious people didn't want the Gamecube. I do think its silly to blame nintendo for what they are today, well actually no I don't. they chose this path. I'm fine with it but cue whiney man child gamer in 3,2,1 . . .

ActicEdge

Gamecube's sales may have been bad, but the Wii is still worse than the Cube. By that, I mean less support from both third (which is worse than last gen) and first. Last gen was less third party, but more first party, but that's still better than this gennintendoboy16

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

The Gamecube generation was directly after the N64 generation. The damage had already been done and the 3rd parties that moved on mass to Playstation during the 90s stayed with Playstation into the new millenium.

No, it never did because it always had a ton of non-shovelware high quality titles.

And it still stands. The Gamecube didn't see everyone moving over to the Gamecube on mass from the Playstation, because, why move? The consumers were eating Playstation up and that's why the PS2 probably has the greatest console library to date, only rivaled by the SNES. What's interesting is that Sony and Nintendo both screwed themselves over in their most successful generation, and ended up being shoved out of 1st place.

Here is a major difference between the two market leaders of last generation and this generation is that the PS2 had a huge number of titles (both first party and third party) to balance out all of the shovelware that made it to the system. The Wii's library does not allow it to do that, and that can be blamed on Nintendo's blue ocean strategy and how they ruined most of their 3rd party relations after they screwed Sony over and retained the cartridge based format for the N64.

Yeah but it also had great 3rd party support and great 1st party support to feed the core gamers.Ragnarok1051

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

No, it never did because it always had a ton of non-shovelware high quality titles.

And it still stands. The Gamecube didn't see everyone moving over to the Gamecube on mass from the Playstation, because, why move? The consumers were eating Playstation up and that's why the PS2 probably has the greatest console library to date, only rivaled by the SNES. What's interesting is that Sony and Nintendo both screwed themselves over in their most successful generation, and ended up being shoved out of 1st place.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="Pices"]

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

Pices

But it didn't matter because of the large amounts of great games to overshadow them.

Yeah but it also had great 3rd party support and great 1st party support to feed the core gamers.Ragnarok1051

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

[QUOTE="110million"]PS2 had enough amazing games to justify some shovelware no one cares about, but because of the mini-game fad sprung by Wii-Sports, the Wii has far more percentage wise.ActicEdge

Do you play shovelware regardless of the percentage? If not why is this an isue?

I know this is antecdotal, so you can disregard this, but last generation it was always a rare occurrence for me to happen upon Shovelware for the PS2. The majority of the games were all decent quality non-shovelware titles. Now if I go to a store and look at the Wii's library more than 50% of it is shovelware.

It's an issue because it shows an unhealthy game library.

Edit: What he means is that there were more great games to choose from on the PS1 and PS2, so shovelware were not a problem. There were never a lack of good games to choose from. Shovelware are basically the physical manifestation of what's missing in a game library.

[QUOTE="metswonin69"][QUOTE="Pices"]

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

Pices

Yes it did, but the PS1 still had more high quality games.

[QUOTE="metswonin69"][QUOTE="Pices"]

Not as much as the N64. Playstation appealed to casual gamers as well

Pices

The playstation had FF7, 8, 9, and tactics. See I can do it to.

Gamecube's sales may have been bad, but the Wii is still worse than the Cube. By that, I mean less support from both third (which is worse than last gen) and first. Last gen was less third party, but more first party, but that's still better than this gennintendoboy16

Yeah one thing about the gamecube that I dont think people really notice today is that you could easily have had that been your only console. It was mine until early 2004 when I got a ps2. and then late 2004 I got an XBOX. I was completely content with my GC though I had way more fun on that thing then I ever did with the wii Like the first time I played metroid prime I was completely blown away....

I liked the new metroid, and some might argue that its better than the first but I didn't give me that same wow factor that the original did, no wii game really wowed me like it, or melee or Resident Evil 4 and I doubt that any will.

The only wii game I took home and was like OMG THIS IS AWESOME ironically was Wii Sports, but other than that this gen color me unimpressed. Now im not saying that all other wii games suck or anything, I love SMG, its my favorite mario game ever, and alot others I like but I really feel you need that next graphical step or evolution in order to keep things feeling fresh cause alot of things feel really stale because of it

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

No, it never did because it always had a ton of non-shovelware high quality titles.

And it still stands. The Gamecube didn't see everyone moving over to the Gamecube on mass from the Playstation, because, why move? The consumers were eating Playstation up and that's why the PS2 probably has the greatest console library to date, only rivaled by the SNES. What's interesting is that Sony and Nintendo both screwed themselves over in their most successful generation, and ended up being shoved out of 1st place.

Ragnarok1051

Whos "everyone"? The greedy fans who always demand more games? Nintendo still cares about the fans hence the announcement of mario, zelda, metroid, sin and punishment and other 1st/2nd party titles this year with no games for the casual audience announced. They still care

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="metswonin69"] Are you now going to try and argue that the N64 had a better library than the Playstation?Ragnarok1051

The playstation had FF7, 8, 9, and tactics. See I can do it to.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="110million"]PS2 had enough amazing games to justify some shovelware no one cares about, but because of the mini-game fad sprung by Wii-Sports, the Wii has far more percentage wise.hakanakumono

Do you play shovelware regardless of the percentage? If not why is this an isue?

I know this is antecdotal, so you can disregard this, but last generation it was always a rare occurrence for me to happen upon Shovelware for the PS2. The majority of the games were all decent quality non-shovelware titles. Now if I go to a store and look at the Wii's library more than 50% of it is shovelware.

It's an issue because it shows an unhealthy game library.

I don't disagree. My problem is that I'm talking form a SW poster perspective. None of us will ever buy shovelware. 99% of the library could be shovelware and we'd buy the other 1% so for us it doesn't matter. I'd dare say though that the shovelware we hate is actually enjoyed by many people. I find if you go to EB games the Wii section is filled with shovelware but in Canada places like Future shop and Zellers normally have about a 65% to 35% crap tonot crapgame ratio.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] It had games like Golden Eye and Perfect DarkPices

The playstation had FF7, 8, 9, and tactics. See I can do it to.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="Pices"] And that is why Nintendo is trying to appeal to everyone. They want to turn these casual gamers into core ones and retain their old school fans back. People can't say that Nintendo is doing a bad move right nowPices

Whos "everyone"? The greedy fans who always demand more games? Nintendo still cares about the fans hence the announcement of mario, zelda, metroid, sin and punishment and other 1st/2nd party titles this year with no games for the casual audience announced. They still care

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Pices"] And then the Playstation becamse notorious for its big amount of shovelwarePices

No, it never did because it always had a ton of non-shovelware high quality titles.

And it still stands. The Gamecube didn't see everyone moving over to the Gamecube on mass from the Playstation, because, why move? The consumers were eating Playstation up and that's why the PS2 probably has the greatest console library to date, only rivaled by the SNES. What's interesting is that Sony and Nintendo both screwed themselves over in their most successful generation, and ended up being shoved out of 1st place.

No they're not trying to appeal to "everyone." Is "wii music" an attempt to appeal to "everyone?" Nintendo has made no such attempt.