I found out why XBL cost money.

http://www.1up.com/news/hirai-psn-losing-money-turn

PSN has been losing money all this time. Sony is wishing/hoping it can profit next year. Microsoft has excellent business sense.

Wait, they charge money so they can make a profit? I didnt know a private entity did that.

Well obviously... these services cost money to create and maintain.

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

Espada12

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

WilliamRLBaker

if they start charging money hypotheticly for psn they would have to really upgrade it to be on par with XBL .

NOTHING is free in this world. Not even your beliefs, your feelings, or even breathing, somehow you always end up paying for it.

[QUOTE="crusadernm"]

http://www.1up.com/news/hirai-psn-losing-money-turn

PSN has been losing money all this time. Sony is wishing/hoping it can profit next year. Microsoft has excellent business sense.

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

WilliamRLBaker

Ya Dude, Sony is really gonna shut down PSN. :roll:

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

WilliamRLBaker

That's why they came out with PSN+.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

sinpkr

if they start charging money hypotheticly for psn they would have to really upgrade it to be on par with XBL .

upgrade what exactly?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

WilliamRLBaker

NOTHING is free in this world. Not even your beliefs, your feelings, or even breathing, somehow you always end up paying for it.

TruSake

[QUOTE="sinpkr"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] So you want Sony to shut down psn or start charging for it then? because thats what will happen, if a company cannot make money off something they find a way to make money off it or they kill it.DoomZaW

if they start charging money hypotheticly for psn they would have to really upgrade it to be on par with XBL .

upgrade what exactly?

Add things such as cross game chat,cross game invites, Better user interface, Demos on every game, more games to Dl dierctly off psn network, and there is more

It's old and posted.
Repeat thread, now I see at least one user is giving arguments and counter arguments answers from the first thread.

I dislike MS's charge policy and maintain that online gaming should not cost anything, but at the same time I defend MS's right to charge in order to cover operating costs. However, when MS chooses to use XBL subscription fees to gain a profit, then I have a beef. That method approaches extortion the further developed it becomes.

Wasn't their rumbling of Sony initiating a subscription fee for PSN awhile back? I haven't heard anything about it for awhile. But it wouldn't really shock me if they announce something about it in 2011. It was pretty ignorant of Sony to think micro-transactions of their DLC games and add-on's would be enough to support a worldwide gaming network of millions.

In fact other than a subscription fee or shutting it down, the 3rd option would be they raise the price of all DLC to compensate.

On top of that, every person I've known who owns a PS3 and Xbox always say XBL is hands down a better overall feature. PSN has made a lot of improvments over the years. But this is a prime example of "you get what you pay for."

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

WilliamRLBaker

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

There are lots of ways for the psn, and Live, to make money without charging a sub. They make money off everything sold through the network, all the micro transactions. Sony makes money of stuff sold in Home. There's really no reason to have a sub charge, especially for p2p gaming. If every game was on high quality dedicated servers I would definitely be willing to pay something. If they had very high standards for online games on their systems, the sub charge would be worth money.

As it is, it seems only Sony has any standards for its own online game, with everyone else perfectly happy with offering p2p. Or, in the case of EA, offering dedicated servers that perform just as bad as p2p, though at least it's more consistent.

[QUOTE="Cheesehead9099"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] So you want Sony to shut down psn or start charging for it then? because thats what will happen, if a company cannot make money off something they find a way to make money off it or they kill it.cainetao11

It also says right in the article they are expecting to turn a profit next year, and all without locking out online play to charge for it, so that's a good sign.FIipMode

Maybe they can turn a profit. Sony is hoping for more PSN plus subscribers. lOl.

There are lots of ways for the psn, and Live, to make money without charging a sub. They make money off everything sold through the network, all the micro transactions. Sony makes money of stuff sold in Home. There's really no reason to have a sub charge, especially for p2p gaming. If every game was on high quality dedicated servers I would definitely be willing to pay something. If they had very high standards for online games on their systems, the sub charge would be worth money.

As it is, it seems only Sony has any standards for its own online game, with everyone else perfectly happy with offering p2p. Or, in the case of EA, offering dedicated servers that perform just as bad as p2p, though at least it's more consistent.

Pug-Nasty

http://www.1up.com/news/hirai-psn-losing-money-turn

PSN has been losing money all this time. Sony is wishing/hoping it can profit next year. Microsoft has excellent business sense.

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]It also says right in the article they are expecting to turn a profit next year, and all without locking out online play to charge for it, so that's a good sign.crusadernm

Maybe they can turn a profit. Sony is hoping for more PSN plus subscribers. lOl.

Yeah its pretty awesome i havent used my 360 online for 5 months, and i called to cancel it 5 months ago but yesterday i got charged $42 bucks for it and i called them explained what happened and they are telling me i never called also i will get charged for this month. Lol its like i have to cancel my credit card because of them they are like herpes never can get rid of them.

I dislike MS's charge policy and maintain that online gaming should not cost anything, but at the same time I defend MS's right to charge in order to cover operating costs. However, when MS chooses to use XBL subscription fees to gain a profit, then I have a beef. That method approaches extortion the further developed it becomes.

Basinboy

in your world, when is it ok to make a profit? They have to make profit somewhere... i would love to see giant corporations go non profit and for the people... but unfortunately i am a realist and understand these companies arent taking massive financial risks out of the goodness of their heart.

[QUOTE="cainetao11"][QUOTE="Cheesehead9099"] Aha they will not shut down PSN or start charging because that is their biggest advantage over MS. *facepalm* O willy, you've done it again.Cheesehead9099

Well I hope Sony starts charging then. I'm sure the only reason they don't currently is because they're still behind the 360.

I don't see a reason to be against paying for these services. They don't function like the PC where a game has it's own online, and donators give money to keep servers up, and admins pay for Ventrillo, or w/e, and all that stuff. It's not costing some company (Like Valve) huge amounts of money to keep all those services up and running.

On the PS3 and 360 it all goes straight to MS and Sony. I imagine it'd be like if AT&T charged for phone service, and then Verizon decided that to overtake AT&T then they'd have to not charge for phone service. That's just a bad idea for Verizon no matter what. :(

Sony should just charge a fee, and then from there they should try to make it better than Live.:)

[QUOTE="Cheesehead9099"][QUOTE="cainetao11"]being in the red is not an advantage in business. Next gen I believe Sony will implement a fee. It's just too much money left on the table.cainetao11

Yeah its pretty awesome i havent used my 360 online for 5 months, and i called to cancel it 5 months ago but yesterday i got charged $42 bucks for it and i called them explained what happened and they are telling me i never called also i will get charged for this month. Lol its like i have to cancel my credit card because of them they are like herpes never can get rid of them.

telefanatic

A huge LOL for the herpes comment

[QUOTE="cainetao11"][QUOTE="Cheesehead9099"] Aha they will not shut down PSN or start charging because that is their biggest advantage over MS. *facepalm* O willy, you've done it again.Cheesehead9099

I think what he is saying is while you are right... sony has to maintain free online to stay competitive... they also need to prove their console division as a viable business unit. So at a certain point they will either need to charge, or exit the market... and i assume they would rather try an online pricing model before just giving up (PSN+ being an early sign of this)

[QUOTE="cainetao11"][QUOTE="Cheesehead9099"] They are not in the red. They are simply losing money. They were losing money on the PS3 for the first couple of years, but did they raise the price? No. Simply because it would destroy them. MS would completely take over if they lost their number one draw for the PS3, which is free online. Cheesehead9099

[QUOTE="Cheesehead9099"][QUOTE="cainetao11"] I read the linked article and Hirai said they expect to be in the black by the end of 2011. If your not in the black with PSN, what are they in? It's business 101.cainetao11

[QUOTE="telefanatic"]

Yeah its pretty awesome i havent used my 360 online for 5 months, and i called to cancel it 5 months ago but yesterday i got charged $42 bucks for it and i called them explained what happened and they are telling me i never called also i will get charged for this month. Lol its like i have to cancel my credit card because of them they are like herpes never can get rid of them.

megaspiderweb09

A huge LOL for the herpes comment

Whoever thought a COMPANY would try to make money? :roll:

I don't have stock in sony so I don't care if PSN is losing money, just keep the online free. Meanwhile lems can get milked and keep justifying it.

[QUOTE="crusadernm"]

http://www.1up.com/news/hirai-psn-losing-money-turn

PSN has been losing money all this time. Sony is wishing/hoping it can profit next year. Microsoft has excellent business sense.

WilliamRLBaker

do you acctually care ofa billion dollar company makes money?, your actually proud of throwing your money away to MS? lol, like they need it. I pay $0 for psn, and $60 for xbl, and feel ripped off from MS. i get the same service for free.

[QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] So you want Sony to shut down psn or start charging for it then? because thats what will happen, if a company cannot make money off something they find a way to make money off it or they kill it.savagetwinkie

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"] No thats Micro$oft's ideology. Sony is prepared to take financial hits as seen in the past to have a larger install/fanbase. They could always change EULA to make us pay for the service, but they won't. Why is that? They know they'll lose customers if they started charging. The PS2 also had free online and around that time XBL was around. So Sony could ALWAYS have inplemented pay-to-play-online in the PS3. But they still didn't. Maybe that's because they a vision on how to treat customers and are willing to make some sacrifices for it. As you can see, the sales of PS3 are getting higher each year so in the end it payed off. Maybe PS4 will start charging for it but I bet they will let things stay the way they are, a free online service with an optional payed service. There is no way they'll pull off the travestry Micro$oft has done for nearly 7 years now.hoosier7

i think you are right... but i think next gen charging is inevitable. They cant do another gen of taking a loss on the hardware and taking a loss on the online. When they have been playing catchup the whole gen with PSN, they obviously cant charge.... but they clearly cant afford to do it for another generation. Something has to give... and i hope next gen... instead of trying to stay free they institute a reasonable charge for PSN.... they could easily charge something very modest like $20 a year, make a profit and still make MS look bad imo.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"] No thats Micro$oft's ideology. Sony is prepared to take financial hits as seen in the past to have a larger install/fanbase. They could always change EULA to make us pay for the service, but they won't. Why is that? They know they'll lose customers if they started charging. The PS2 also had free online and around that time XBL was around. So Sony could ALWAYS have inplemented pay-to-play-online in the PS3. But they still didn't. Maybe that's because they a vision on how to treat customers and are willing to make some sacrifices for it. As you can see, the sales of PS3 are getting higher each year so in the end it payed off. Maybe PS4 will start charging for it but I bet they will let things stay the way they are, a free online service with an optional payed service. There is no way they'll pull off the travestry Micro$oft has done for nearly 7 years now.hoosier7

[QUOTE="hoosier7"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] they keep it free expecting they'll be able to make money off it indirectly, when that doesn't happen, they'll take up microsofts policy. also, M$ has the policy to keep improving the service constantly, I don't think sony was really prepared really for this and now realize they are in a small whole with psn, they have to keep trying to make money off it, and keep up with M$, it might be free, but to a lot of people $5 a month isn't much for a better service.savagetwinkie

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="hoosier7"] Charging is probable in the future but not this gen, Sony made a promise at the start of the gen that online play would remain free, they reiterated this when PSN+ was brought in comitting to free online play. Turning back on this promise would harm the PS3 image something Sony believes and relies on heavily to generate sales (proven by how they release such an expensive console and rely on brand name to carry the console without much advertising). Next gen maybe, this gen no chance. Btw i'd say PSN has improved pretty much constantly since the start of the gen, trophies, home, messaging, more stable so on. For a service sent out to challenge Live that had already had a previous gens worth of experience in online gaming, it's not one too bad.hoosier7