I hate to say it but COWS WILL BE LAUGHING IN THE END

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC. I don't include the PC in the console wars because pc gaming will always be niche and always be around no matter what. However people thinking the ps3 underdelivered really aren't taking into account many factors. "Thewaitstation" "if the ps3 was more powerful it would show it from day1."

Do I need to remind you that the playstation 3 was not even going to launch with a GPU? Look, Sony is NOT known for making developer friendly systems and it does take awhile get to used to the hardware. So what are the games using now? They are using the single cpu core from the cell coupled with the RSX. The 360 has easier access to 3 cores vs one and the GPU is SLIGHTLY better (228gigaflops vs 214gflops). This unified crap is nice for efficiency but the numbers at the end of the day speak for themselves. The RSX does operate at a faster frequency but is not as efficient. Period.

HOWEVER, do you realize why Folding at home is way better than on ANY home PC? VECTOR PROCESSING. The Cell is an extremely efficient Vector Processor. One of the BIGGEST tasks of a GPU is vector processing. It will be relatively easy for the Cell do render grass, water, and do a lot of the calculations for physics while having the RSX focus on other things. I mean graphics=calculations. The cell is going to be tricky in the beginning (the ps3 has been out a few months worldwide) however EXPECT the best graphics from THIS console within another year for the reasons I stated.

Therefore the GPU along with the CPU is going to be extremely potent. Heck look at how the PS2 dealt with using a 4mb INTEGRATED GPU along with the emotion engine. The xbox had a dedicated CPU and 64MB GPU..and it was still close!

TRY to flame away with the typical SW one liners but I won't even respond. Have something intelligent from a development/theoretical standpoint and I will entertain.

I guess we'll have to WAIT and see.

Why even bother arguing your points? None of them involved games, so I'm not interested...

I guess we'll have toWAIT and see.TheCrazed420

So far Sony and developers have not done much with the PS3...so it may be awhile before anyone is laughing.

typical SW one liner? - when will all the techno geekery give birth to a great game?rzepak

Cute. But making great games and having great games come to the system has never been Sony's problem. It has been having great games early in the launch window and first year. RFOM, VF5, Motorstorm and Oblivion have me happy for now. I play my PS3 more than my 360 for VF5 alone.

Hope you have a flameshield, because i have mine.

but back to the topic, i feel this gen is going to be alot of owners owing both the ps3/wii well at least in EU and JA areas. as for NA area it will be

360/wii or

ps3/wii or

ps3/360

as for the last laugh its really hard to tell, it will either be PS3 or Wii.

[QUOTE="rzepak"]typical SW one liner? - when will all the techno geekery give birth to a great game?Dave_NBF

Cute. But making great games and having great games come to the system has never been Sony's problem. It has been having great games early in the launch window and first year. RFOM, VF5, Motorstorm and Oblivion have me happy for now. I play my PS3 more than my 360 for VF5 alone.

you should know beat-em-ups hardly have mass appeal..

Screw games, folding is so much fun!

*sarcasm*

the problem with just waiting in the ps1 and ps2 had amazing launches so developers were willing to wait it out to get some cash. Now, if the sales continue, developers are going to pull support before they even get into full swing developmentShazenab

blah blah blah, vf5 for 360 soon with online play, 360 already has oblivion, and halo3 plus forza and pgr3 and 4 will be better than motorstorm so whatever, you don't even have a 360SegArgyle

[QUOTE="Shazenab"]the problem with just waiting in the ps1 and ps2 had amazing launches so developers were willing to wait it out to get some cash. Now, if the sales continue, developers are going to pull support before they even get into full swing developmentnhh12345

I'm talking numbers, not games. You need numbers to sway developers into sticking with hard development- otherwise, well, there is no point.

i can back you up TC

http://gametomorrow.com/blog/index.php/2005/11/30/gpus-vs-cell/

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC.

Dave_NBF

RFOM, VF5, Motorstorm and Oblivion have me happy for now.

Dave_NBF

Wait a minute, you have a PC and a 360 and you are just now playing Oblivion? Sounds fish to me.........

Wait a minute, you have a PC and a 360 and you are just now playing Oblivion? Sounds fish to me.........

Kestastrophe

VERY good point. What say you TC?

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC. I don't include the PC in the console wars because pc gaming will always be niche and always be around no matter what. However people thinking the ps3 underdelivered really aren't taking into account many factors. "Thewaitstation" "if the ps3 was more powerful it would show it from day1."

Do I need to remind you that the playstation 3 was not even going to launch with a GPU? Look, Sony is NOT known for making developer friendly systems and it does take awhile get to used to the hardware. So what are the games using now? They are using the single cpu core from the cell coupled with the RSX. The 360 has easier access to 3 cores vs one and the GPU is SLIGHTLY better (228gigaflops vs 214gflops). This unified crap is nice for efficiency but the numbers at the end of the day speak for themselves. The RSX does operate at a faster frequency but is not as efficient. Period.

HOWEVER, do you realize why Folding at home is way better than on ANY home PC? VECTOR PROCESSING. The Cell is an extremely efficient Vector Processor. One of the BIGGEST tasks of a GPU is vector processing. It will be relatively easy for the Cell do render grass, water, and do a lot of the calculations for physics while having the RSX focus on other things. I mean graphics=calculations. The cell is going to be tricky in the beginning (the ps3 has been out a few months worldwide) however EXPECT the best graphics from THIS console within another year for the reasons I stated.

Therefore the GPU along with the CPU is going to be extremely potent. Heck look at how the PS2 dealt with using a 4mb INTEGRATED GPU along with the emotion engine. The xbox had a dedicated CPU and 64MB GPU..and it was still close!

TRY to flame away with the typical SW one liners but I won't even respond. Have something intelligent from a development/theoretical standpoint and I will entertain.

Dave_NBF

All of that is well and good. But that doesn't mean developers will spend the time needed to make the games look good, and it doesnt mean that the games (even if pretty) will be good. Add to that the lack of sales for the PS3 along with the success of the competition and more developers are going to continue to focus on the competition. Menaing that in the end the better games will still be on the Wii and 360 and the PS3 will still fail.

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC. I don't include the PC in the console wars because pc gaming will always be niche and always be around no matter what. However people thinking the ps3 underdelivered really aren't taking into account many factors. "Thewaitstation" "if the ps3 was more powerful it would show it from day1."

Do I need to remind you that blah blah blah blah blah............Dave_NBF

Ok, you said all of that to say what? :shock:

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC. I don't include the PC in the console wars because pc gaming will always be niche and always be around no matter what. However people thinking the ps3 underdelivered really aren't taking into account many factors. "Thewaitstation" "if the ps3 was more powerful it would show it from day1."

Do I need to remind you that the playstation 3 was not even going to launch with a GPU? Look, Sony is NOT known for making developer friendly systems and it does take awhile get to used to the hardware. So what are the games using now? They are using the single cpu core from the cell coupled with the RSX. The 360 has easier access to 3 cores vs one and the GPU is SLIGHTLY better (228gigaflops vs 214gflops). This unified crap is nice for efficiency but the numbers at the end of the day speak for themselves. The RSX does operate at a faster frequency but is not as efficient. Period.

HOWEVER, do you realize why Folding at home is way better than on ANY home PC? VECTOR PROCESSING. The Cell is an extremely efficient Vector Processor. One of the BIGGEST tasks of a GPU is vector processing. It will be relatively easy for the Cell do render grass, water, and do a lot of the calculations for physics while having the RSX focus on other things. I mean graphics=calculations. The cell is going to be tricky in the beginning (the ps3 has been out a few months worldwide) however EXPECT the best graphics from THIS console within another year for the reasons I stated.

Therefore the GPU along with the CPU is going to be extremely potent. Heck look at how the PS2 dealt with using a 4mb INTEGRATED GPU along with the emotion engine. The xbox had a dedicated CPU and 64MB GPU..and it was still close!

TRY to flame away with the typical SW one liners but I won't even respond. Have something intelligent from a development/theoretical standpoint and I will entertain.

Dave_NBF

don't say that. thanks.

I guess we'll have to WAIT and see.

Why even bother arguing your points? None of them involved games, so I'm not interested...

TheCrazed420

LOL, so true. We'll just have to wait...

and I also love how every post defending the PS3 says to stop using "wait" as ownage against it, yet EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM tells people to wait until the big hitters come out.

I'm still waiting for the proof on this one. I'm not saying it can't do the things you mentioned, but I have yet to see any game that looks significantly better than Gears of War, Alan Wakeor Bioshock. I know it's still early and all, but last generation when the Xbox launched, it clearly asserted its graphical domination with games like Halo and Dead or Alive 3, the latter still, after five years looks better than the average PS2 game.

I still believe that the PS3 is the most powerful console of the three, but at this stage in the game, it's failed to demonstrate that.

[QUOTE="TheCrazed420"]

I guess we'll have to WAIT and see.

Why even bother arguing your points? None of them involved games, so I'm not interested...

-Beowulf

LOL, so true. We'll just have to wait...

and I also love how every post defending the PS3 says to stop using "wait" as ownage against it, yet EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEMtells people to wait until the big hitters come out.

All we can do is wait until major Ps3 titles launched what else can be done...?

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"][QUOTE="-Beowulf"][QUOTE="TheCrazed420"]

I guess we'll have to WAIT and see.

Why even bother arguing your points? None of them involved games, so I'm not interested...

farhan007

LOL, so true. We'll just have to wait...

and I also love how every post defending the PS3 says to stop using "wait" as ownage against it, yet EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEMtells people to wait until the big hitters come out.

All we can do is wait until major Ps3 titles launched what else can be done...?

Millions of Persons did the same with the ps1 and Owned themselves , I wont Do the same mistake...

the Xbox killed the ps2 in terms of graphics anyone who thinks it was "close" is either a fanboy or didn't play the Xbox very much

the Xbox killed the ps2 in terms of graphics anyone who thinks it was "close" is either a fanboy or didn't play the Xbox very much

onewiththegame

No true cow/fanboy will ever admit that.... :shock:

I'm still waiting for the proof on this one. I'm not saying it can't do the things you mentioned, but I have yet to see any game that looks significantly better than Gears of War, Alan Wakeor Bioshock. I know it's still early and all, but last generation when the Xbox launched, it clearly asserted its graphical domination with games like Halo and Dead or Alive 3, the latter still, after five years looks better than the average PS2 game.

I still believe that the PS3 is the most powerful console of the three, but at this stage in the game, it's failed to demonstrate that.

The_Game21x

Well the bulit in HDD might help.

Do I need to remind you that the playstation 3 was not even going to launch with a GPU? Dave_NBF

What? Where are you getting this from?

[QUOTE="Dave_NBF"]

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC.

Kestastrophe

RFOM, VF5, Motorstorm and Oblivion have me happy for now.

Dave_NBF

Wait a minute, you have a PC and a 360 and you are just now playing Oblivion? Sounds fish to me.........

My PC's currently is an fx-55 2 7800gt OC and 2 gig ram desktop and a xps m1710 lappy with a 1.83ghz 2 gig ram and 7900gtx gpu. I downloaded the game from direct2drive and i just didn't get that into it. I was playing CAL CS:S and I found that my computers weren't up to snuff to play at the level of smoothness I like. I never bought it for the 360 because I was playing GRAW, FNR3 and gears of war.

It also shouldnt surprise u if i have multiple versios of the same game as if u have seen my posts I have often compared FNR3 for the ps3 and 360 amongst others.

blah blah blah, vf5 for 360 soon with online play, 360 already has oblivion, and halo3 plus forza and pgr3 and 4 will be better than motorstorm so whatever, you don't even have a 360SegArgyle

Didnt Sega Say there are no Online Play for VF5?

the problem with just waiting in the ps1 and ps2 had amazing launches so developers were willing to wait it out to get some cash. Now, if the sales continue, developers are going to pull support before they even get into full swing developmentShazenab

PS1 and PS2 had terrible launches.

I know you said you didn't want a one liner, but here's one anyway. It's too early in the console wars to know the answer, and only time will tell. At the moment, however, factors point to the failure of the PS3, and 3rd parties are more interested in the "here and now" then the future potential. So unless you have a crystal ball, stop trying to predict the future.Tylendal

factors are not pointing to the failure of the ps3 and my point isn't even debating about a crystal ball. I am talking about how the ps3 will put out graphics better than any other console. I am using more fact than hypothesis. The only hypothesis..is when will my facts reign true? Nice attempt at ownage though. Look into vector processing and the ps3 and you will begin to see where I am coming from.

[QUOTE="Shazenab"]the problem with just waiting in the ps1 and ps2 had amazing launches so developers were willing to wait it out to get some cash. Now, if the sales continue, developers are going to pull support before they even get into full swing developmentCajunShooter

PS1 and PS2 had terrible launches.

PS2 didn't have a terrible launch. It just launched in Japan a year early, and it sold extremely well there. In fact, it sold ONE MILLION units in one weekend in Japan alone.

Then in launched in NA and Europe and did excellent there as well.

Look I am a manticore witha ps3, 360 and PC. I don't include the PC in the console wars because pc gaming will always be niche and always be around no matter what. However people thinking the ps3 underdelivered really aren't taking into account many factors. "Thewaitstation" "if the ps3 was more powerful it would show it from day1."

Do I need to remind you that the playstation 3 was not even going to launch with a GPU? Look, Sony is NOT known for making developer friendly systems and it does take awhile get to used to the hardware. So what are the games using now? They are using the single cpu core from the cell coupled with the RSX. The 360 has easier access to 3 cores vs one and the GPU is SLIGHTLY better (228gigaflops vs 214gflops). This unified crap is nice for efficiency but the numbers at the end of the day speak for themselves. The RSX does operate at a faster frequency but is not as efficient. Period.

HOWEVER, do you realize why Folding at home is way better than on ANY home PC? VECTOR PROCESSING. The Cell is an extremely efficient Vector Processor. One of the BIGGEST tasks of a GPU is vector processing. It will be relatively easy for the Cell do render grass, water, and do a lot of the calculations for physics while having the RSX focus on other things. I mean graphics=calculations. The cell is going to be tricky in the beginning (the ps3 has been out a few months worldwide) however EXPECT the best graphics from THIS console within another year for the reasons I stated.

Therefore the GPU along with the CPU is going to be extremely potent. Heck look at how the PS2 dealt with using a 4mb INTEGRATED GPU along with the emotion engine. The xbox had a dedicated CPU and 64MB GPU..and it was still close!

TRY to flame away with the typical SW one liners but I won't even respond. Have something intelligent from a development/theoretical standpoint and I will entertain.

Dave_NBF

You raise some great points, there, but the fact of the matter is i'm already laughing at the 360 now.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]I know you said you didn't want a one liner, but here's one anyway. It's too early in the console wars to know the answer, and only time will tell. At the moment, however, factors point to the failure of the PS3, and 3rd parties are more interested in the "here and now" then the future potential. So unless you have a crystal ball, stop trying to predict the future.Dave_NBF

factors are not pointing to the failure of the ps3 and my point isn't even debating about a crystal ball. I am talking about how the ps3 will put out graphics better than any other console. I am using more fact than hypothesis. The only hypothesis..is when will my facts reign true? Nice attempt at ownage though. Look into vector processing and the ps3 and you will begin to see where I am coming from.

Does this mean that in the future the PS3 will be able to handle high res ground textures as well?

Sony is NOT known for making developer friendly systems

Dave_NBF

So then why did the Saturn and N64 lose to the Playstation again :roll:

I'm still waiting for the proof on this one. I'm not saying it can't do the things you mentioned, but I have yet to see any game that looks significantly better than Gears of War, Alan Wakeor Bioshock. I know it's still early and all, but last generation when the Xbox launched, it clearly asserted its graphical domination with games like Halo and Dead or Alive 3, the latter still, after five years looks better than the average PS2 game.

I still believe that the PS3 is the most powerful console of the three, but at this stage in the game, it's failed to demonstrate that.

The_Game21x

the thing with the xbox launching and showing graphical dominance from the beginning is easy to discuss. It hasa 64mb GPU that was dedicated to graphics while the ps2 had a 4mb integrated GPU. That is an order of magnitude greater difference. The ps2 ended up having games comparable to the xbox in the long run (God of war2) thanks to a powerful CPU and good developing. However this time around at least the ps3 has a gpu that is comparable to the 360 AND it has a CPU that is a math wizard which can do vector processing and other things that normal cpu's just can't do..efficiently. While I certainly don't think the cell is the Second Coming, I do believe that the games will show amazing potential. The ONLY caveat I see is that if people don't buy the PS3, then developers wont take the time to figure it out.

However with lair and heavenly sword on the horizen and a strong 07-08 lineup I would venture to say the ps3 will do just fine;)

[QUOTE="Dave_NBF"]

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]I know you said you didn't want a one liner, but here's one anyway. It's too early in the console wars to know the answer, and only time will tell. At the moment, however, factors point to the failure of the PS3, and 3rd parties are more interested in the "here and now" then the future potential. So unless you have a crystal ball, stop trying to predict the future.Kestastrophe

factors are not pointing to the failure of the ps3 and my point isn't even debating about a crystal ball. I am talking about how the ps3 will put out graphics better than any other console. I am using more fact than hypothesis. The only hypothesis..is when will my facts reign true? Nice attempt at ownage though. Look into vector processing and the ps3 and you will begin to see where I am coming from.

Does this mean that in the future the PS3 will be able to handle high res ground textures as well?

Simply put, it means that water, grass and many particle effects on top of physics and AI can ALL be handled seamlessly by the cell processor. This isn't just opinion. It is due to the design of the chip and the ability to do crazy calculations. Vector processing plays a vital role in a GPU. So by relieving the RSX of these responsibilities it would be fair to state that the RSX will have more "energy" to devote to ground textures etc.

[QUOTE="Kestastrophe"][QUOTE="Dave_NBF"]

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]I know you said you didn't want a one liner, but here's one anyway. It's too early in the console wars to know the answer, and only time will tell. At the moment, however, factors point to the failure of the PS3, and 3rd parties are more interested in the "here and now" then the future potential. So unless you have a crystal ball, stop trying to predict the future.Dave_NBF

factors are not pointing to the failure of the ps3 and my point isn't even debating about a crystal ball. I am talking about how the ps3 will put out graphics better than any other console. I am using more fact than hypothesis. The only hypothesis..is when will my facts reign true? Nice attempt at ownage though. Look into vector processing and the ps3 and you will begin to see where I am coming from.

Does this mean that in the future the PS3 will be able to handle high res ground textures as well?

Simply put, it means that water, grass and many particle effects on top of physics and AI can ALL be handled seamlessly by the cell processor. This isn't just opinion. It is due to the design of the chip and the ability to do crazy calculations. Vector processing plays a vital role in a GPU. So by relieving the RSX of these responsibilities it would be fair to state that the RSX will have more "energy" to devote to ground textures etc.

The sooner the better because ground textures on the PS3 are awful right now.

[QUOTE="SegArgyle"]blah blah blah, vf5 for 360 soon with online play, 360 already has oblivion, and halo3 plus forza and pgr3 and 4 will be better than motorstorm so whatever, you don't even have a 360ni6htmare01

Didnt Sega Say there are no Online Play for VF5?

Yes, but certain fanboys just like to say it so they think they're getting a superior version of the game when it's really the same game, just months later.

So the PS3 is running a computer with a GPU like processor (cell). That doesn't make it good at other tasks. 360 has a better GPU and it's processor is better then the cell for what it needs to do.

For decoding movies and playback the cell is clearly better, but for gaming and branch logic the 360's CPU > Cell.

Kind of like buying a ferarri, but all you have to drive on is sand. It just doesn't do the job at hand. The 360 does the best job of maximizing everything so that the system as a whole runs very efficiently. GPU does GPU stuff. CPU does CPU stuff and memory and pooled where it can be accessed by both the CPU and GPU.