If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's....

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

Because they couldn't get more power out of the SPU. They need more time because it's so hard to program on Cell.

Well I should care because they would maxed out the game, why waste so much space if it's possible to run 1080p beautifuly.

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

liquid_hiphop

Because its not a fast paced FPS like COD4 or a racing game. Its a 3rd person Platformer/shooting game. It doesnt need to be 30fps. As for the 720p, again who cares, its a beautiful game with an awsome story and awsome gameplay. Look at NGS, it runs at 1080p and 60fps and Uncharted is a vastly superior game IMO (keyword).

Well I should care because they would maxed out the game, why waste so much space if it's possible to run 1080p beautifuly.

liquid_hiphop

the real worry is- developers have been working on PS3 since mid 2005. how much time do they need?CwlHeddwyn

[QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"]

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

Javy03

Because its not a fast paced FPS like COD4 or a racing game. Its a 3rd person Platformer/shooting game. It doesnt need to be 30fps. As for the 720p, again who cares, its a beautiful game with an awsome story and awsome gameplay. Look at NGS, it runs at 1080p and 60fps and Uncharted is a vastly superior game IMO (keyword).

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is a port of an xbox game that ran at 480p 60fps on the og xbox. I dont think we will ever see the ps3s processor ever used more than about 40% of its power, theres just too much bottlenecking in the ps3s architecture.

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]the real worry is- developers have been working on PS3 since mid 2005. how much time do they need?jack_russel

as time goes by, using the hardware more efficientlyreduces cost and effort.that is inevitable.

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"]

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

TerroRizing

Because its not a fast paced FPS like COD4 or a racing game. Its a 3rd person Platformer/shooting game. It doesnt need to be 30fps. As for the 720p, again who cares, its a beautiful game with an awsome story and awsome gameplay. Look at NGS, it runs at 1080p and 60fps and Uncharted is a vastly superior game IMO (keyword).

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is a port of an xbox game that ran at 480p 60fps on the og xbox. I dont think we will ever see the ps3s processor ever used more than about 40% of its power, theres just too much bottlenecking in the ps3s architecture.

NGS is not a "port". It was actually made from the ground up for the PS3. You can even see that as we look at the screens for NG2 looking very similiar to NGS. It running at 1080p and 60fps is an achievement and I doubt will be the first. Remember, this is only the first year of development. I remember the PS2s first years worth of games (which technically was its second seeing as I had the U.S. version) and I remember the batch of games it had 4 years later. Its amazing what they were able to pull out of the PS2. I see simliar improvements with the PS3's games.

[QUOTE="jack_russel"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]the real worry is- developers have been working on PS3 since mid 2005. how much time do they need?Mordred19

as time goes by, using the hardware more efficientlyreduces cost and effort.that is inevitable.

[QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"]

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

Javy03

Because its not a fast paced FPS like COD4 or a racing game. Its a 3rd person Platformer/shooting game. It doesnt need to be 30fps. As for the 720p, again who cares, its a beautiful game with an awsome story and awsome gameplay. Look at NGS, it runs at 1080p and 60fps and Uncharted is a vastly superior game IMO (keyword).

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is a port of an xbox game that ran at 480p 60fps on the og xbox. I dont think we will ever see the ps3s processor ever used more than about 40% of its power, theres just too much bottlenecking in the ps3s architecture.

NGS is not a "port". It was actually made from the ground up for the PS3. You can even see that as we look at the screens for NG2 looking very similiar to NGS. It running at 1080p and 60fps is an achievement and I doubt will be the first. Remember, this is only the first year of development. I remember the PS2s first years worth of games (which technically was its second seeing as I had the U.S. version) and I remember the batch of games it had 4 years later. Its amazing what they were able to pull out of the PS2. I see simliar improvements with the PS3's games.

what? ninja gaiden sigma is exactly the same as ninja gaiden black, they just added some content. I would think that the ps3 would be capable of running a last gen game at 60fps and 1080p, especially one that ran at 480p and 60fps.

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="jack_russel"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]the real worry is- developers have been working on PS3 since mid 2005. how much time do they need?jack_russel

as time goes by, using the hardware more efficientlyreduces cost and effort.that is inevitable.

no, it won't. the time between improvements gets shorter and shorter as time goes by, getting closer to a singularity with the hardware. the rate of improvement is increasing everyday.

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"]

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

TerroRizing

Because its not a fast paced FPS like COD4 or a racing game. Its a 3rd person Platformer/shooting game. It doesnt need to be 30fps. As for the 720p, again who cares, its a beautiful game with an awsome story and awsome gameplay. Look at NGS, it runs at 1080p and 60fps and Uncharted is a vastly superior game IMO (keyword).

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is a port of an xbox game that ran at 480p 60fps on the og xbox. I dont think we will ever see the ps3s processor ever used more than about 40% of its power, theres just too much bottlenecking in the ps3s architecture.

NGS is not a "port". It was actually made from the ground up for the PS3. You can even see that as we look at the screens for NG2 looking very similiar to NGS. It running at 1080p and 60fps is an achievement and I doubt will be the first. Remember, this is only the first year of development. I remember the PS2s first years worth of games (which technically was its second seeing as I had the U.S. version) and I remember the batch of games it had 4 years later. Its amazing what they were able to pull out of the PS2. I see simliar improvements with the PS3's games.

what? ninja gaiden sigma is exactly the same as ninja gaiden black, they just added some content. I would think that the ps3 would be capable of running a last gen game at 60fps and 1080p, especially one that ran at 480p and 60fps.

The story is the same but the game itself is not. The character models, AI, etc. was all made from the ground up for the PS3. It is not a port. Just like Twin Snakes is a remake of MGS for the PS1, its not a port, but a remake. Take a look at NG2, it looks exactly like NGS. Are you trying to tell me that NG2 is only a port as well.

Have you actually played NGS and NGB?

It's suck at 720p @ 30FPS because it's using 100% of the PS3's power, but they don't want to admit it.GodLovesDead

say whatever you want about total "power". The 30% means efficiency.

[QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"]

then why its stuck at 720p @30FPS? I don't get it.

Javy03

Because its not a fast paced FPS like COD4 or a racing game. Its a 3rd person Platformer/shooting game. It doesnt need to be 30fps. As for the 720p, again who cares, its a beautiful game with an awsome story and awsome gameplay. Look at NGS, it runs at 1080p and 60fps and Uncharted is a vastly superior game IMO (keyword).

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is a port of an xbox game that ran at 480p 60fps on the og xbox. I dont think we will ever see the ps3s processor ever used more than about 40% of its power, theres just too much bottlenecking in the ps3s architecture.

NGS is not a "port". It was actually made from the ground up for the PS3. You can even see that as we look at the screens for NG2 looking very similiar to NGS. It running at 1080p and 60fps is an achievement and I doubt will be the first. Remember, this is only the first year of development. I remember the PS2s first years worth of games (which technically was its second seeing as I had the U.S. version) and I remember the batch of games it had 4 years later. Its amazing what they were able to pull out of the PS2. I see simliar improvements with the PS3's games.

what? ninja gaiden sigma is exactly the same as ninja gaiden black, they just added some content. I would think that the ps3 would be capable of running a last gen game at 60fps and 1080p, especially one that ran at 480p and 60fps.

The story is the same but the game itself is not. The character models, AI, etc. was all made from the ground up for the PS3. It is not a port. Just like Twin Snakes is a remake of MGS for the PS1, its not a port, but a remake. Take a look at NG2, it looks exactly like NGS. Are you trying to tell me that NG2 is only a port as well.

Have you actually played NGS and NGB?

NG2 is a different game, its also displaying gameplay elements they couldnt quite pull off last gen.

Can't understand why ANYONE would swallow the "30% of the power nonsense."

Question a) How would they limit the power?

If its a software thing then any decent developer would be able to bypass the lock if not delete it, if its a hardware thing how are they going to remove the hardware block on all the consoles sold that don't go online for the daily firmware updates.

Question b) Why limit the power?

If they released just 1 game that showed what the "full power" machine wa capable off then even the most rabid lemming would run and trade his 360 for a PS3, if Uncharted was 30% then 100% would surely be film quality graphics...

... as it is Sony come out with some PR BS about only using 30%... the cows go mental and start spouting rubbish claims and the lemmings/hermits/sheep just think "Oh No... Not Again"

Who cares?

Wasnt NG:S at 60 fps and 1080?

Vasichko

Well if they use the rest of it they might be able to have more than 3 other A.I's on screen at any one time..

If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's ...liquid_hiphop

And 100% of the memory.;)

[QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"] If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's ...bcrich959

And 100% of the memory.;)

It's suck at 720p @ 30FPS because it's using 100% of the PS3's power, but they don't want to admit it.GodLovesDead

Because it just is. Who cares. They probably just got to a point where they were like "good enough".jack_russel

[QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"] If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's ...bcrich959

And 100% of the memory.;)

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]It's suck at 720p @ 30FPS because it's using 100% of the PS3's power, but they don't want to admit it.Mordred19

say whatever you want about total "power". The 30% means efficiency.

As if you can actually put a scale on efficiency with the limitless optimization methods.

[QUOTE="bcrich959"]

[QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"] If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's ...muscleserge

And 100% of the memory.;)

hehe very true. the memory in consoles, specially the ps3 is pathetic. you can only store a very limited amount of shaders, materials, static meshes and dynamic lights, devs have to insanely optimize a game to get it to run smooth on the ps3. Im speaking from experience.

Yes story wise but character models etc.. all look just like NGS. Like I said, NGS is just like NGB in story. There were some gameplay elements like running on water that team ninja said they couldnt quite pull off last gen that they are pulling off this gen.

My point is that NGS is not a port like you claimed and it running at 1080p and 60fps should not be dismissed.

Javy03

It's a bit of a shoddy comparison because many models and textures weren't altered, but I'm wondering if this is more like the difference between the original Half-Life and Half-Life: Source (the remade version using the Source engine from Half-Life 2). Sure, the latter makes use of the more advanced rendering engine and incorporates a few new elements, but the essentials of the game remain the same from the original--meaning it doesn't take that sophisticated a computer to run the latter. So is the same true for NGS? Are the essential elements of the game the same, such that when placed in the much-more-potent-than-the-Xbox PS3 it finds itself with lots of room to maneuver?

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]It's suck at 720p @ 30FPS because it's using 100% of the PS3's power, but they don't want to admit it.GodLovesDead

say whatever you want about total "power". The 30% means efficiency.

As if you can actually put a scale on efficiency with the limitless optimization methods.

[QUOTE="muscleserge"][QUOTE="bcrich959"]

[QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"] If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's ...WARxSnake

And 100% of the memory.;)

hehe very true. the memory in consoles, specially the ps3 is pathetic. you can only store a very limited amount of shaders, materials, static meshes and dynamic lights, devs have to insanely optimize a game to get it to run smooth on the ps3. Im speaking from experience.

...That's why the PS3 has the SPUs. They account for the small memory fault, and pull of more. No other console can render their environments from sheer processing power.

It is harder to code for the ps3, but it's not due to limitations necessarialy. While coding on the PS3, developers have to do what most don't do right now-- code so it uses more processing power than ram. Vice versa-- the normal coding before this generation of consoles/PCs was single core processors, with a large amount of ram. I mean, in all honesty, only recently have a good number of PC games been multithreaded-- meaning they use multiple cores from a processor. On both the 360 and the PS3, they have to do that in order to bring out their full potential, and it's even more dependant on the PS3. Keep in mind, with the original PS3 design, they were planning on not even having a GPU, just using sheer processing power to render everything.

Essentially, the reason it's harder to code for the PS3 is that it requires that developers code processes so that they go to different SPUs within the PS3's Cell. Same reason that the 360 isn't at 100% potential yet, as well. Multi-core(SPU) processors have huge potential, but they're harder to code on.

In response to you "speaking from experience" I've coded multithreaded programs. It takes longer. I personally wouldn't say it's that much harder, it just takes longer.

...That's why the PS3 has the SPUs. They account for the small memory fault, and pull of more. No other console can render their environments from sheer processing power.

It is harder to code for the ps3, but it's not due to limitations necessarialy. While coding on the PS3, developers have to do what most don't do right now-- code so it uses more processing power than ram. Vice versa-- the normal coding before this generation of consoles/PCs was single core processors, with a large amount of ram. I mean, in all honesty, only recently have a good number of PC games been multithreaded-- meaning they use multiple cores from a processor. On both the 360 and the PS3, they have to do that in order to bring out their full potential, and it's even more dependant on the PS3. Keep in mind, with the original PS3 design, they were planning on not even having a GPU, just using sheer processing power to render everything.

Essentially, the reason it's harder to code for the PS3 is that it requires that developers code processes so that they go to different SPUs within the PS3's Cell. Same reason that the 360 isn't at 100% potential yet, as well. Multi-core(SPU) processors have huge potential, but they're harder to code on.

In response to you "speaking from experience" I've coded multithreaded programs. It takes longer. I personally wouldn't say it's that much harder, it just takes longer.

Khanezhyray

A fundamental trait of a computer processor is that it can only see what is in its memory. If whatever you are trying to accomplish is larger than the maximum capacity of your memory, then you have one of three options.

1) Cut the job into smaller chunks so you can work within your memory limitation.

2) Employ storage media as a swap space--at the cost of very slow access time.

3) Call the whole thing off.

Put it this way. There is a reason scenes in the PS3 version of UT3 aren't as crisp as their PC counterparts (and IIRC, both Mark Rein and Tim Sweeney admitted to that). There simply wasn't enough room to put in everything the way they wanted it.

[QUOTE="Khanezhyray"]

...That's why the PS3 has the SPUs. They account for the small memory fault, and pull of more. No other console can render their environments from sheer processing power.

It is harder to code for the ps3, but it's not due to limitations necessarialy. While coding on the PS3, developers have to do what most don't do right now-- code so it uses more processing power than ram. Vice versa-- the normal coding before this generation of consoles/PCs was single core processors, with a large amount of ram. I mean, in all honesty, only recently have a good number of PC games been multithreaded-- meaning they use multiple cores from a processor. On both the 360 and the PS3, they have to do that in order to bring out their full potential, and it's even more dependant on the PS3. Keep in mind, with the original PS3 design, they were planning on not even having a GPU, just using sheer processing power to render everything.

Essentially, the reason it's harder to code for the PS3 is that it requires that developers code processes so that they go to different SPUs within the PS3's Cell. Same reason that the 360 isn't at 100% potential yet, as well. Multi-core(SPU) processors have huge potential, but they're harder to code on.

In response to you "speaking from experience" I've coded multithreaded programs. It takes longer. I personally wouldn't say it's that much harder, it just takes longer.

HuusAsking

A fundamental trait of a computer processor is that it can only see what is in its memory. If whatever you are trying to accomplish is larger than the maximum capacity of your memory, then you have one of three options.

1) Cut the job into smaller chunks so you can work within your memory limitation.

2) Employ storage media as a swap space--at the cost of very slow access time.

3) Call the whole thing off.

Put it this way. There is a reason scenes in the PS3 version of UT3 aren't as crisp as their PC counterparts (and IIRC, both Mark Rein and Tim Sweeney admitted to that). There simply wasn't enough room to put in everything the way they wanted it.

Right, but as the game goes along, as they cache more into the RSX and the Cell, they can transfer new information from the hard drive(Blu-ray/DVD disc) to the RAM, and prepare it to be cached into the SPUs.

It does have some limitations, but they're being exaggerated. Every console has limitations >.>

Keep in mind when responding that the PS3 has 256mb system ram and then 256mb video ram in the RSX.

Right, but as the game goes along, as they cache more into the RSX and the Cell, they can transfer new information from the hard drive(Blu-ray/DVD disc) to the RAM, and prepare it to be cached into the SPUs.

It does have some limitations, but they're being exaggerated. Every console has limitations >.>

Keep in mind when responding that the PS3 has 256mb system ram and then 256mb video ram in the RSX.

Khanezhyray

[QUOTE="jack_russel"]Because it just is. Who cares. They probably just got to a point where they were like "good enough".Erkidu

[QUOTE="WARxSnake"][QUOTE="muscleserge"][QUOTE="bcrich959"]

[QUOTE="liquid_hiphop"] If Uncharted only using 30% of PS3 SPU's ...Khanezhyray

And 100% of the memory.;)

hehe very true. the memory in consoles, specially the ps3 is pathetic. you can only store a very limited amount of shaders, materials, static meshes and dynamic lights, devs have to insanely optimize a game to get it to run smooth on the ps3. Im speaking from experience.

...That's why the PS3 has the SPUs. They account for the small memory fault, and pull of more. No other console can render their environments from sheer processing power.

It is harder to code for the ps3, but it's not due to limitations necessarialy. While coding on the PS3, developers have to do what most don't do right now-- code so it uses more processing power than ram. Vice versa-- the normal coding before this generation of consoles/PCs was single core processors, with a large amount of ram. I mean, in all honesty, only recently have a good number of PC games been multithreaded-- meaning they use multiple cores from a processor. On both the 360 and the PS3, they have to do that in order to bring out their full potential, and it's even more dependant on the PS3. Keep in mind, with the original PS3 design, they were planning on not even having a GPU, just using sheer processing power to render everything.

Essentially, the reason it's harder to code for the PS3 is that it requires that developers code processes so that they go to different SPUs within the PS3's Cell. Same reason that the 360 isn't at 100% potential yet, as well. Multi-core(SPU) processors have huge potential, but they're harder to code on.

In response to you "speaking from experience" I've coded multithreaded programs. It takes longer. I personally wouldn't say it's that much harder, it just takes longer.

no matter how many cores you have to perform multithreaded tasking to speed up processing, you still need memory space to store static meshes, shaders and materials which cost alot. unless you build a game with assets solely comprised of duplicates, you are eventually going to run into a roadblock on the PS3 because of the dedicated vram for shaders and geometry. If you bust in one, you bust in the other. You also have to store physics attribute for all your dynamic meshes, dynamic lights, light maps, navmeshes, which all have to fit into very limited space. Granted multithreading helps alleviate and share processing of all mechanics of a game but when you run out of memory it doesnt matter anymore.

What I meant by I speak from experience is, the game we are making is bottlenecked by the PS3, and all the assets are being made with the upmost care for modularity and re-use to alleviate and the load on the Ps3's memory, all the while taking care of Novodex (unreal physics engine) and navmesh (ground topology for AI). textures have to be reduced in size and static meshes have to be re-used.

And coding for the PC was multithreaded from a while back, ever since the P4 2.8C HT, and xenons or course.

I read somewhere that they plan on using the engine they created for Uncharted to make Jak or some other game.

[QUOTE="Vasichko"]

Who cares?

Wasnt NG:S at 60 fps and 1080?

-wii60-

I was about to say that.

Anyway, link.

""Well, this game is going to support 720p, and that is because we have determined that this is optimal resolution to get the best quality images out of the PS3.""