IGN article (why the Wii didnt appeal to core gamers?)

http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1191484p1.html

Anyway, i disagree that graphics was the major reason why hardcore gamers didnt like the Wii. I thought that the motion controls were the biggest factor why core gamers didnt like the system. I personally thought the Wii mote controls were horrible and innacurate and really ruined my enjoyment of games like Mario and Zelda.

360 and PS3 dont have amazing graphics. I bought each of those systems because of the games and not because of average graphics. The graphics of the Wii were irrelevent and the controller was the biggest stumbling block for me. It's why I plan to ignore the Wii U.

It was the power difference that let it down. If it was more powerfull there would be more games to buy.

i'm assuming it was a combination of graphics and nunchuck controller. just horrible really.

Because in order to cater to some ofthe people that call themselves "core" gamers today,Nintendo would have to never innovate or be different, lest they want their games to labeled as "gimmicky", have to add blood, gore, lots of shooting violence, and sex, otherwise it's "kiddy", and for some reason many of the people who label themselves "core" gamers just have to have HD graphics otherwise it's utter garbage.

I think core gamers could have eventually gotten over the control (which general works ell and is quite comfortable) and the graphics. Nintendo's push towards including a more casual and broad audience pushed away gamers who wanted didn't want their family involved in their gaming.

I agree to an extent with IGN. The Wii's lack of power hurt it among the hardcore. Having 3 zombies on the screen vs. 100 seriously impacts gameplay in a negative way. Not being able to handle all the multiplats on the 360 and PS3 also didn't help.

That said, I finally picked up a Wii last week with the price drop and have been loving it. Being able to play 6 years of titles at a fraction of the price without all the waiting in between big realeases = win.

The whole feel of the system and pretty much every game made for it is... Childish?

I just cant take the Wii serious, sure i've played golf and tennis a few times, but it never really compelled me to try it further.

So called "core" gamers are afraid of change. They were against the Wii because they chose to try something new, and abandon most of the old. They set themselves apart from the competition, for better or worse. And if HD is really a determining factor in someone's preference- that HD make or break a purchase- I wouldn't call them a "core" gamer. They've lost their way, and in so doing latched onto the largest gimmick of all: graphics.

Well I'm a core gamer, and it's my favorite console. Really was just the lack of more powerful hardware. That means devs didn't want to port multiplats to it, and therefor there were less games to appeal to the "core."

So basically Nintendo is right and core gamers are wrong? I dont find the Wii very revolutionary because I thought the Wiimote wasnt accurate enough to warrant changing from analog sticks. I felt like the Wii mote was just a cheap gimmick that casuals ate up because they werent overwhelmed by TWO ANALOG STICKS!!!!!!!!!!!

So basically Nintendo is right and core gamers are wrong? I dont find the Wii very revolutionary because I thought the Wiimote wasnt accurate enough to warrant changing from analog sticks. I felt like the Wii mote was just a cheap gimmick that casuals ate up because they werent overwhelmed by TWO ANALOG STICKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Fizzman

Well the Wiimote crushes dual analog for FPSes, that I know for sure. Some games felt like it was just a thrown-in gimmick, such as Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. Other games such as Red Steel 2, and soon Skyward Sword, really show off the Wiimote and how to use it beyond "waggle."

Really it depends on the developer. Some just treated it like a controller, others actually used motion controls correctly. I can't wait for the Wii-U, because that's gonna be a lot easier for devs to develop new ideas for. And I'm realling diggin' the controller.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

So basically Nintendo is right and core gamers are wrong? I dont find the Wii very revolutionary because I thought the Wiimote wasnt accurate enough to warrant changing from analog sticks. I felt like the Wii mote was just a cheap gimmick that casuals ate up because they werent overwhelmed by TWO ANALOG STICKS!!!!!!!!!!!

ChubbyGuy40

Well the Wiimote crushes dual analog for FPSes, that I know for sure. Some games felt like it was just a thrown-in gimmick, such as Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. Other games such as Red Steel 2, and soon Skyward Sword, really show off the Wiimote and how to use it beyond "waggle."

Really it depends on the developer. Some just treated it like a controller, others actually used motion controls correctly. I can't wait for the Wii-U, because that's gonna be a lot easier for devs to develop new ideas for. And I'm realling diggin' the controller.

Well I completely disagree with that. I feel like the Wiimote is incredibly innaccurate compared to analog sticks with FPS games. Sticks aren't great, but the Wiimote was just a chore to use.

The whole feel of the system and pretty much every game made for it is... Childish?

I just cant take the Wii serious, sure i've played golf and tennis a few times, but it never really compelled me to try it further.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

So basically Nintendo is right and core gamers are wrong? I dont find the Wii very revolutionary because I thought the Wiimote wasnt accurate enough to warrant changing from analog sticks. I felt like the Wii mote was just a cheap gimmick that casuals ate up because they werent overwhelmed by TWO ANALOG STICKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Fizzman

Well the Wiimote crushes dual analog for FPSes, that I know for sure. Some games felt like it was just a thrown-in gimmick, such as Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. Other games such as Red Steel 2, and soon Skyward Sword, really show off the Wiimote and how to use it beyond "waggle."

Really it depends on the developer. Some just treated it like a controller, others actually used motion controls correctly. I can't wait for the Wii-U, because that's gonna be a lot easier for devs to develop new ideas for. And I'm realling diggin' the controller.

Well I completely disagree with that. I feel like the Wiimote is incredibly innaccurate compared to analog sticks with FPS games. Sticks aren't great, but the Wiimote was just a choir to use.

Your Wiimote was a group of people singing together using different harmonies??? Maybe if you played something besides Wii Music you would've seen that the controller was pretty good (and comfortable). And the guy before you was right, the Wiimote/nunchuk combo is second only to the mouse/kb for FPS's, and WAY WAY more accurate than a dual analog controller (not sure what FPS you were playing but in my experience it has a 10 minute or so learning curve).

The whole feel of the system and pretty much every game made for it is... Childish?

I just cant take the Wii serious, sure i've played golf and tennis a few times, but it never really compelled me to try it further.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Well the Wiimote crushes dual analog for FPSes, that I know for sure. Some games felt like it was just a thrown-in gimmick, such as Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. Other games such as Red Steel 2, and soon Skyward Sword, really show off the Wiimote and how to use it beyond "waggle."

Really it depends on the developer. Some just treated it like a controller, others actually used motion controls correctly. I can't wait for the Wii-U, because that's gonna be a lot easier for devs to develop new ideas for. And I'm realling diggin' the controller.

svetzenlether

Well I completely disagree with that. I feel like the Wiimote is incredibly innaccurate compared to analog sticks with FPS games. Sticks aren't great, but the Wiimote was just a choir to use.

Your Wiimote was a group of people singing together using different harmonies??? Maybe if you played something besides Wii Music you would've seen that the controller was pretty good (and comfortable). And the guy before you was right, the Wiimote/nunchuk combo is second only to the mouse/kb for FPS's, and WAY WAY more accurate than a dual analog controller (not sure what FPS you were playing but in my experience it has a 10 minute or so learning curve).

Nice job making a ton of assumptions and being totally wrong. I guess playing Red Steel, Mario Galaxy, Zelda and Metroid is Wii Music right? They were all inferior todual analog sticks imo. Why are Nintendo fans so fanatical in their love for Nintendo? NINTENDO IS NEVER WRONG!!!!!!!!! STOP HURTING NINTENDO!!!!!!!!!!!

I did own a Wii for about six months and sold it because I thought the motion controls were abysmal andthe online was a total joke

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Well the Wiimote crushes dual analog for FPSes, that I know for sure. Some games felt like it was just a thrown-in gimmick, such as Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. Other games such as Red Steel 2, and soon Skyward Sword, really show off the Wiimote and how to use it beyond "waggle."

Really it depends on the developer. Some just treated it like a controller, others actually used motion controls correctly. I can't wait for the Wii-U, because that's gonna be a lot easier for devs to develop new ideas for. And I'm realling diggin' the controller.

svetzenlether

Well I completely disagree with that. I feel like the Wiimote is incredibly innaccurate compared to analog sticks with FPS games. Sticks aren't great, but the Wiimote was just a choir to use.

Your Wiimote was a group of people singing together using different harmonies??? Maybe if you played something besides Wii Music you would've seen that the controller was pretty good (and comfortable). And the guy before you was right, the Wiimote/nunchuk combo is second only to the mouse/kb for FPS's, and WAY WAY more accurate than a dual analog controller (not sure what FPS you were playing but in my experience it has a 10 minute or so learning curve).

Aiming is better, turning is worse.

Wiimote isn't any better than dual analogs, you just trade one deficiency for another.

Nice job making a ton of assumptions and being totally wrong. I guess playing Red Steel, Mario Galaxy, Zelda and Metroid is Wii Music right? They were all inferior todual analog sticks imo. Why are Nintendo fans so fanatical in their love for Nintendo? NINTENDO IS NEVER WRONG!!!!!!!!! STOP HURTING NINTENDO!!!!!!!!!!!

I did own a Wii for about six months and sold it because I thought the motion controls were abysmal andthe online was a total joke

Fizzman

You bought a Wii thinking the online would be good?? Go figure... Anyway, the Wii Music thing was because you mentioned using the Wiimote was a "choir". I'm assuming you meant "chore" but I thought I'd have some fun with it.

Red Steel (1 I'm guessing?) sucked, but I have no idea why you thought any of the other games you listed controlled terribly, as that wasn't my experience with them at all.

And nice job making the assumption that I'm a blind Nintendo fanboy, RIGHT AFTER you call me out on it! I currently pissed at Nintendo for Xenoblade not being in N. America.

A number of factors which made the whole machine lacklustre for many gamers. It's all very well and good labelling these "afraid of change" but when you're offering them Wii Sports and Wii Music and the competition is offering HD quality graphics and more complex games then you have to see the bigger picture. Nintendo fans love the old franchises, many others don't and outside those franchises there wasn't nearly enough to justify owning the system.

The wii missed out on so many top quality games just because it couldn't handle them. It feels like it could have been an add on for the gamecube.

The motion controls, horrible online and lack of 3rd party.Heil68

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

Nice job making a ton of assumptions and being totally wrong. I guess playing Red Steel, Mario Galaxy, Zelda and Metroid is Wii Music right? They were all inferior todual analog sticks imo. Why are Nintendo fans so fanatical in their love for Nintendo? NINTENDO IS NEVER WRONG!!!!!!!!! STOP HURTING NINTENDO!!!!!!!!!!!

I did own a Wii for about six months and sold it because I thought the motion controls were abysmal andthe online was a total joke

svetzenlether

You bought a Wii thinking the online would be good?? Go figure... Anyway, the Wii Music thing was because you mentioned using the Wiimote was a "choir". I'm assuming you meant "chore" but I thought I'd have some fun with it.

Red Steel (1 I'm guessing?) sucked, but I have no idea why you thought any of the other games you listed controlled terribly, as that wasn't my experience with them at all.

And nice job making the assumption that I'm a blind Nintendo fanboy, RIGHT AFTER you call me out on it! I currently pissed at Nintendo for Xenoblade not being in N. America.

Well when you defend Nintendo by just making assumptions on what games I have played, its not hard to think you are just defending Nintendo because they are Nintendo. I bought a Wii to play games like Mario and Zelda. Single player games. The online was just the icing on the terrible cake. It was like i was using an Internet service provider from 1997.

I played Wii Sports too which im pretty sure is the highest selling game on the Wii and those controls were awful. The margin for error in that game was so enormous because of the inaccuracy of the Wiimote made the game a joke. I remember playing Wii baseball and was wondering, "it it even possible to not get a hit?" Nintendo knew that those were the type of games that were going to be their biggest sellers because they were so incredibly simple and required no effort to play.

Mario Galaxy would have been better imo without using the Wiimote. I could not stand having to use the Wiimote. It was just so unnecessasry and made the game unplayable for me.

[QUOTE="svetzenlether"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

Nice job making a ton of assumptions and being totally wrong. I guess playing Red Steel, Mario Galaxy, Zelda and Metroid is Wii Music right? They were all inferior todual analog sticks imo. Why are Nintendo fans so fanatical in their love for Nintendo? NINTENDO IS NEVER WRONG!!!!!!!!! STOP HURTING NINTENDO!!!!!!!!!!!

I did own a Wii for about six months and sold it because I thought the motion controls were abysmal andthe online was a total joke

Fizzman

You bought a Wii thinking the online would be good?? Go figure... Anyway, the Wii Music thing was because you mentioned using the Wiimote was a "choir". I'm assuming you meant "chore" but I thought I'd have some fun with it.

Red Steel (1 I'm guessing?) sucked, but I have no idea why you thought any of the other games you listed controlled terribly, as that wasn't my experience with them at all.

And nice job making the assumption that I'm a blind Nintendo fanboy, RIGHT AFTER you call me out on it! I currently pissed at Nintendo for Xenoblade not being in N. America.

Well when you defend Nintendo by just making assumptions on what games I have played, its not hard to think you are just defending Nintendo because they are Nintendo. I bought a Wii to play games like Mario and Zelda. Single player games. The online was just the icing on the terrible cake. It was like i was using an Internet service provider from 1997.

I played Wii Sports too which im pretty sure is the highest selling game on the Wii and those controls were awful. The margin for error in that game was so enormous because of the inaccuracy of the Wiimote made the game a joke. I remember playing Wii baseball and was wondering, "it it even possible to not get a hit?" Nintendo knew that those were the type of games that were going to be their biggest sellers because they were so incredibly simple and required no effort to play.

Mario Galaxy would have been better imo without using the Wiimote. I could not stand having to use the Wiimote. It was just so unnecessasry and made the game unplayable for me.

Does the littlest bit of motion hurt your wrists or something?

it is the weak hardware devs just could not port games to it. I loved the wii mote it was used pretty bad some times. But it just works very well when used right.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

[QUOTE="svetzenlether"]

You bought a Wii thinking the online would be good?? Go figure... Anyway, the Wii Music thing was because you mentioned using the Wiimote was a "choir". I'm assuming you meant "chore" but I thought I'd have some fun with it.

Red Steel (1 I'm guessing?) sucked, but I have no idea why you thought any of the other games you listed controlled terribly, as that wasn't my experience with them at all.

And nice job making the assumption that I'm a blind Nintendo fanboy, RIGHT AFTER you call me out on it! I currently pissed at Nintendo for Xenoblade not being in N. America.

Shinobishyguy

Well when you defend Nintendo by just making assumptions on what games I have played, its not hard to think you are just defending Nintendo because they are Nintendo. I bought a Wii to play games like Mario and Zelda. Single player games. The online was just the icing on the terrible cake. It was like i was using an Internet service provider from 1997.

I played Wii Sports too which im pretty sure is the highest selling game on the Wii and those controls were awful. The margin for error in that game was so enormous because of the inaccuracy of the Wiimote made the game a joke. I remember playing Wii baseball and was wondering, "it it even possible to not get a hit?" Nintendo knew that those were the type of games that were going to be their biggest sellers because they were so incredibly simple and required no effort to play.

Mario Galaxy would have been better imo without using the Wiimote. I could not stand having to use the Wiimote. It was just so unnecessasry and made the game unplayable for me.

Does the littlest bit of motion hurt your wrists or something?

No, but it was incredibly unnecessary and a pair of analog sticks would have made the game exactly the same. Nintendo did not change gaming with the Wii. They merely used a different input method that wasn't any better than the previous one.

Nintenod realized they could not compete with the billions in reveue being generated by Sony and MS and also because they could sell their consoles for a loss. So they went and made a very underpowered system with a control scheme that wasnt revolutionay because it wasnt superior to the previous input method "analog sticks". A gimmick that got them every casual on the market and they are confused why core gamers didnt really care for it. The Wii is primarily a casual system and was designed to be a casual system.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

Well when you defend Nintendo by just making assumptions on what games I have played, its not hard to think you are just defending Nintendo because they are Nintendo. I bought a Wii to play games like Mario and Zelda. Single player games. The online was just the icing on the terrible cake. It was like i was using an Internet service provider from 1997.

I played Wii Sports too which im pretty sure is the highest selling game on the Wii and those controls were awful. The margin for error in that game was so enormous because of the inaccuracy of the Wiimote made the game a joke. I remember playing Wii baseball and was wondering, "it it even possible to not get a hit?" Nintendo knew that those were the type of games that were going to be their biggest sellers because they were so incredibly simple and required no effort to play.

Mario Galaxy would have been better imo without using the Wiimote. I could not stand having to use the Wiimote. It was just so unnecessasry and made the game unplayable for me.

Fizzman

Does the littlest bit of motion hurt your wrists or something?

No, but it was incredibly unnecessary and a pair of analog sticks would have made the game exactly the same. Nintendo did not change gaming with the Wii. They merely used a different input method that wasn't any better than the previous one.

It was the lack of power which led to a lack of Third Party Support. Why should a developer make a game for your weaker system, when he can make a game on a more powerful system and port it to 2 more? Besides that the Wii was a large success. But, waggle was kinda bad.

I'm not sure it was shunned, as all the consoles have a similar games per console attach ratio. Which leads me to believe...

http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1191484p1.html

Anyway, i disagree that graphics was the major reason why hardcore gamers didnt like the Wii. I thought that the motion controls were the biggest factor why core gamers didnt like the system. I personally thought the Wii mote controls were horrible and innacurate and really ruined my enjoyment of games like Mario and Zelda.

360 and PS3 dont have amazing graphics. I bought each of those systems because of the games and not because of average graphics. The graphics of the Wii were irrelevent and the controller was the biggest stumbling block for me. It's why I plan to ignore the Wii U.

Fizzman

I disagree. I am probably in the category of "core" gamer as I've been gaming for roughly 30 years. I was very excited about the prospect of motion controls when Nintendo first announced the wii. When I finally was able to get past the shortages of the console and get one home with Zelda, Twilight Princess, I thought it was great. Games like Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 were also amazing. I didn't care that the graphics were not HD.

But now I think the Wii is garbage and if it wasn't for my 3 year old son loving Wii Sports Resort, it probably wouldn't get played at all. Sure, there is a couple games I've missed out on that I could play, but I also have a PS3 with a backlog of games I haven't beaten and I would much rather play Infamous 2 or Killzone 3 than Kirby or...what? What else is there to care about?

The games are the problem, not the graphics. Nintendo seems to have given up on games. Hell, even Twilight Princess was techically a GameCube title that took so long to get out they just delayed it for the Wii release. But the vast majority of games SUCKED or were rehashes from last gen. And while games like Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy showed that motion contol can be great if used properly and in moderation...too many developers thought that was ALL that mattered resulting in games with lots of crap control and zero gameplay. Motion control was more of a distraction for developers than an innovation. This meant shoddy games with tacked on motion controls that just didn't work on any level.

That is why the Wii U will be the first Nintendo console I don't buy. I'm done with Nintendo. I still love Mario and Zelda, etc, but I still have all the old games and I would much rather plug those in and replay them than buy a new console for a game that isn't going to be one bit different than the older version. And instead of being distracted by motion controls, other developers are just going to be distracted by the Wii screen. Hell, even the demo reel from E3 seemed to show little more than more Wii sports looking games, rehashes, or cutesy mini game collections. And only one controller? that tells me it is a guarantee developers will be distracted at finding ways to use it as well as the wii controller since you can't play multiplayer with more than one Wii U controller.

I have no doubt the games are still going to be Wii Sports, mini game collections, baby titles, etc. So the core will continue to stay away. And I wouldn't be surprised if the casual stay away this time too because I don't believe those "non gamers" have any interest in continuing with the trend. Their only interest was a short term fad. They got what they wanted and likely won't see the need for another console to play the same games.

Power, good online service, better controls (motion control only works for certian games), challenging games, and ps3/360 multiplats. The Wii didn't have any of these things so that's why it didn't appeal to "core" gamers.

Although I only take IGN articles with a grain of salt...

Because in order to cater to some ofthe people that call themselves "core" gamers today,Nintendo would have to never innovate or be different, lest they want their games to labeled as "gimmicky", have to add blood, gore, lots of shooting violence, and sex, otherwise it's "kiddy", and for some reason many of the people who label themselves "core" gamers just have to have HD graphics otherwise it's utter garbage.

Demonjoe93

I've never understood how some people think that there is a correlation between graphics and hardcore gamers. Just more website nonsense.

I've never understood how some people think that there is a correlation between graphics and hardcore gamers. Just more website nonsense.

Bigboi500

I would hope that most gamers aren't shallow enough to let graphics be a deciding factor, because that wouldn't make them real gamers. My guess is the lack of good third party titles was what really did it, in addition to the motion controls and absurd amount of shovelware on the system. Merex760

To answer this question, ask yourself why the system never got Deus Ex which is available everywhere else. Or Mass Effect 2. Or Red Dead Redemption. I could go on and on. It missed out on so much because it was underpowered and couldn't rely solely on a first party which was reliant itself on aging franchises.

From gimmicky controls, to the perception that Nintendo is for kids, to the lack of third party, to the lack of HD, to the fallout from the gamecube, Nintendo dropped the ball. They found success in appealing to a broad audience but these people are not reliable and will move on when the next gimmick comes along. They cut costs and their street cred amongst many core gamers has shrunk.

There certainly wasn't enough on the wii to satisfy me or justify me buying one, and I'm a very long term gamer. I'd stand in disbelief at the Wii display in the shops. Mini game collections and dross with the odd tried and tested nintendo game everyone has played 100 times before. There were at times too many games on the other consoles for me to make a choice, but for the wii, I'd be hard pressed to buy two games a year.

That's personal experience. There is certainly a negative perception right now from many gamers, take from it what you'd like.