IGN-"Killing Samus" Agree/Disagree?

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bobaban

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#51 bobaban
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts
I always imagined her as an uptight british chick who is a cuthroat killer
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svetzenlether

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#52 svetzenlether
Member since 2003 • 3082 Posts

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

Willy105

The video from this link should've ended the thread right there.

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TheShadowLord07

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#53 TheShadowLord07
Member since 2006 • 23083 Posts

could you give me the rundown of what other m did to samus? I keep hearing that they ruined her, but I don't know what they didohthemanatee
they ruined by giving her a voice.

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Vaasman

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#54 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15877 Posts

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]could you give me the rundown of what other m did to samus? I keep hearing that they ruined her, but I don't know what they didTheShadowLord07

they ruined by giving her a voice.

I would say that they gave her a voice, so much as they gave her the inability to stop talking.

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AmayaPapaya

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#55 AmayaPapaya
Member since 2008 • 9029 Posts

My only problem was how they presented everything.

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TheShadowLord07

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#56 TheShadowLord07
Member since 2006 • 23083 Posts

[QUOTE="TheShadowLord07"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]could you give me the rundown of what other m did to samus? I keep hearing that they ruined her, but I don't know what they didVaasman

they ruined by giving her a voice.

I would say that they gave her a voice, so much as they gave her the inability to stop talking.

so she's like a chatter box? I never heard what she's like, but im not expecting good VA.

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Bigboi500

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#57 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

I always imagined her as an uptight british chick who is a cuthroat killerbobaban
You mean another Lara Croft or Cammy from Street Fighter? No thanks.

I see no problem what so ever with her being an emotional and caring (aka normal) woman that doesn't have to act like a stereotypical badass.

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Vaasman

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#58 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15877 Posts

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="TheShadowLord07"] they ruined by giving her a voice.

TheShadowLord07

I would say that they gave her a voice, so much as they gave her the inability to stop talking.

yea but fans cant take that stuff. I never heard what she's like, but im not expecting good VA.

It's better than most japanese developed games, but definitely not great. considering the game has something near 2 hours worth of cutscenes, it'll definitely start to test your patience.

edit: and yes, she's a major chatter box.

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svetzenlether

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#59 svetzenlether
Member since 2003 • 3082 Posts

could you give me the rundown of what other m did to samus? I keep hearing that they ruined her, but I don't know what they didohthemanatee

Basically, a bunch of fanboys are in a stink because Other M actually Samus character traits. Since most of these fanboys apparently thought of Samus as the female equivalent of this:

they were caught off guard when Nintendo had to gall to portray Samus as *gasp* a FLAWED CHARACTER!!

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BrunoBRS

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#60 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
well one hour is not enough, but it seems to me that the only difference in character as of now is that you can listen to her log entries. she's still the silent warrior that goes badass when duty calls (did you see her finishing moves?!). it's not because she's human (everything she once loved ends up dead. her mother was eaten alive in front of her when she was 3. the bastard who did it just won't die. she was used as a tool by the chozo, to clean their mess, the metroids. the list goes on) that she's worse. like i said, she still goes into badass mode when she needs to.
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Mario1331

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#61 Mario1331
Member since 2005 • 8929 Posts

ign holds no weight

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loco145

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#62 loco145
Member since 2006 • 12226 Posts
Japanese developers can't write good stories. Retro > Team Ninja.
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TheShadowLord07

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#63 TheShadowLord07
Member since 2006 • 23083 Posts

Japanese developers can't write good stories. Retro > Team Ninja.loco145

I thought it was nintendo who was doing the story for other m

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GunSmith1_basic

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#64 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts

I disagree with IGN about this but I must admit that the Samus of Other M isn't quite the Samus most envisioned, as in when she was in this GT Countdown -http://www.gametrailers.com/video/top-ten-gt-countdown/12352. I think the fact that post tramatic stress of the metroid dying answers a lot of it btw, especially since she was coldest in the prime games, which were prequels.

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deactivated-5ef52b89b6fd0

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#65 deactivated-5ef52b89b6fd0
Member since 2009 • 4928 Posts

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

Willy105
Please.......everyone wouldnt be saying it it it was not some what true, you are known to defend nintendo no matter what, so much that it may jade you own judgement.
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LegatoSkyheart

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#66 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

[QUOTE="Willy105"]

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

Advid-Gamer

Please.......everyone wouldnt be saying it it it was not some what true, you are known to defend nintendo no matter what, so much that it may jade you own judgement.

Please......everyone is on two sides of this and the video brings up really good points.

I think Some Fans just wanted another Prime Game.

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goblaa

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#67 goblaa
Member since 2006 • 19304 Posts

I still fail to see how Other M's portrayal of Samus was different, in any way, from Fusion's.

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skrat_01

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#68 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts
Samus sure as hell isn't a Ripley anymore. So much less.
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trugs26

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#69 trugs26
Member since 2004 • 7541 Posts

I think it's the same character, just shown more. If people don't like that they can just leave. It's their creation and their story.

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Avian005

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#70 Avian005
Member since 2009 • 4112 Posts

Yes, they failed, horribly.

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mexicangordo

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#71 mexicangordo
Member since 2005 • 8687 Posts

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"][QUOTE="Willy105"]

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

LegatoSkyheart

Please.......everyone wouldnt be saying it it it was not some what true, you are known to defend nintendo no matter what, so much that it may jade you own judgement.

Please......everyone is on two sides of this and the video brings up really good points.

I think Some Fans just wanted another Prime Game.

Basically that. The hardcore fans just wan't another Prime game. But as you said, Other M seperated the "fans" from the fans.

I thought that video was fantastic, and I totally share the same view points as it does (i.e my early posts) Very good find.

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Toki1776

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#72 Toki1776
Member since 2005 • 264 Posts

so she's like a chatter box? I never heard what she's like, but im not expecting good VA.

TheShadowLord07

You do hear her voice quite a bit, however, it's mostly through monologue. Samus really doesn't have a whole lot of dialogue, though, so I wouldn't call her a chatterbox at all.

I really don't think Samus's character was "killed" at all, just quite a bit more fleshed out than in the previous games.

oh, and as far as the authorization thing goes,

[spoiler] I find it interesting how hung up people get on the "Adam won't authorize the Varia suit for no good reason" thing, but don't bother to wonder why Samus didn't activate the Gravity suit before the Nightmare fight... [/spoiler]

Personally, I like to see both of those "issues" as her just enjoying the challenge like the badass she is.

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Seabas989

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#73 Seabas989
Member since 2009 • 13567 Posts

No not at all. Could have been handled betetr but in no way was Samus's character killed like some people claim.

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Planeforger

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#74 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 20145 Posts

That article seems to have forgotten that Metroid Fusion existed. You know, the game where Samus spends her entire time lost in thoughts about her old commander, and taking orders from the ship's computer? Actually, at a stretch, you could probably say that Super Metroid basically painted Samus as a caring mother figure, too.

As for all of the "sexist!" claims, how is 'Samus is basically a macho dude, only female' any better? I've heard feminists complain about how giving women masculine roles isn't really helping gender stereotypes either way.

Anyway, I didn't think Other M killed Samus' character, it just fleshed out what had already been hinted at in the series. The Ridley scene was a bit illogical, but everything else worked in my mind.

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Syn_Valence

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#75 Syn_Valence
Member since 2004 • 2172 Posts
Seriously i really wanted this game BECAUSE THEY FLESHED OUT THE CHARACTER, maybe sheep just aren't use to complex characters then, since kirby, mario and sonic can all be explain in one sentence.
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nintendoboy16

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#76 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 42236 Posts

One thing's for Sure, Metroid Other M split the fans from "Fans" to Fans.

LegatoSkyheart
I thought Metroid Prime split the Metroid fans. I always read arguments over Metroid being better in 2D and saying it sucks in 3D.
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FrozenLiquid

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#77 FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts

Samus sure as hell isn't a Ripley anymore. So much less.skrat_01

Actually, Samus's character in Other M is much closer to Ripley than the previous silent type incarnation of her.

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FrozenLiquid

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#78 FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts

As for all of the "sexist!" claims, how is 'Samus is basically a macho dude, only female' any better? I've heard feminists complain about how giving women masculine roles isn't really helping gender stereotypes either way.

Planeforger

This. We live in such a patriarchal society where we think for women to be equal, they have to act like men. Far, far from it. Sexual equality is about both sexes having the opportunity to life in equal amounts. It's not gender sameness.

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SaudiFury

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#79 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts

I've always viewed Samus as the strong silent type who happened to be female.

Not the introspective - in the Japanese game style - type. That is what i found so jarring about it.

That projection is not bad, considering what the games offered us to work with before. Nor do i think it's anymore wrong for their to be a strong silent female type, then it is to see introspective whiny male protaganist either.

stereotypically speaking Japanese games have the whiney emo-ish introspective effeminate men, and possibly introspective or super giddy girls. like wise.. sterotypically speaking Western games have the brute footballer who is either silent or likes to backtalk. as far as females, well there are not a whole lot of females characters out there. Lara croft comes to mind, and while she was initially intended to be this way, she would become just a third person platform shooter who had some....nice assets....

If anything i'd of thought Samus to have been more like Lightning for FF13, if they were gonna go the introspective female route.

I'm not a fanboy of any console really. grew up on Nintendo, i mainly play on PS3 now. but i frankly feel like - after having played a bit of the game myself - that i'm seeing rationalizing the ok, or damage control. I fail to see that prior to "Young and Naive" trailer released anyone out there thought of Samus the way she - sometimes - comes off in the game.

and no i DO NOT THINK PEOPLE JUST WANTED ANOTHER PRIME. even 3 of the guys i know who have played through the new game loved the gameplay, just really disliked how Samus came off, as a character. people are not talking about FPS/platformer/shooter/whatever.

I think it dented her image among the fans, what this will mean for the future of Metroid i don't know. we'll see the NPD numbers later this month, and we'll have to see the response in buyers on the next - inevitble - Metroid game to know if the portrayal had any effect on fans at all.

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locopatho

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#80 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
[QUOTE="Willy105"]

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

There was a good IGN?
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Cruse34

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#81 Cruse34
Member since 2009 • 4468 Posts

The only part that destroyed Samus was with Ridley. All the other parts were okay. I also doubt that there will be another Other M type of Metoid game soon.

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TGM_basic

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#82 TGM_basic
Member since 2003 • 6299 Posts

Couldn't disagree more. I actually care more about Samus the character, and Metroid the franchise as a whole a hell of a lot more after playing Other M. IGN just likes to hate for the sake of hating.

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TGM_basic

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#83 TGM_basic
Member since 2003 • 6299 Posts

The only part that destroyed Samus was with Ridley. All the other parts were okay. I also doubt that there will be another Other M type of Metoid game soon.

Cruse34

Considering Other M is the best game this gen, I would certainly hope they wouldn't just ignore the potential for a new installment.

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Willy105

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#84 Willy105
Member since 2005 • 26209 Posts
[QUOTE="Willy105"]

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

Advid-Gamer
Please.......everyone wouldnt be saying it it it was not some what true, you are known to defend nintendo no matter what, so much that it may jade you own judgement.

I do not defend Nintendo no matter what, but they definitely don't deserve the usual arguments against them.
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Brownesque

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#85 Brownesque
Member since 2005 • 5660 Posts
The "stereotype" of a human character who expresses actual emotion counters the blatant, cliched archetype of a "tough as nails" female protagonist. See Sarah Connor in Terminator 1....and contrast that to Sarah Connor in Terminator 2. Damsel in distress turns tough as nails robo*****. It wouldn't be a problem if the stone-faced, crotch-punching female lead wasn't already a practical paradigm in feminist entertainment. Watch Xena, folks. Good lord. This stuff wasn't shocking or unusual since back before Sigourney Weaver did it in Alien. God forbid people have personalities, oh no.
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Darth_DuMas

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#86 Darth_DuMas
Member since 2006 • 2687 Posts

Yeah, they totally ruined her character. She is now three dimensional. Why does she have to be three dimensional? She's a girl!!!! Amirite?

I miss the good IGN.....

Willy105

Completely agree, great find :)

He completely nails it.

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foxhound_fox

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#87 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

I haven't played the game yet... but I am getting less and less interested in seeing the cutscenes. I am very much interested in playing the game, just not watching Samus contradict everything I've come to know about her. This seems like a very much "love/hate" situation, and people saying "oh you just need to accept it" can go express their absolutist opinions elsewhere. Some of us can disagree if we want.

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kobraka1

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#88 kobraka1
Member since 2009 • 890 Posts

other M was terrible reguardless but i think shadow complex killed other M by being the better metroid game. samus was just one of the flaws in that game.

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Scythes777

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#89 Scythes777
Member since 2006 • 2796 Posts

I haven't played the game yet... but I am getting less and less interested in seeing the cutscenes. I am very much interested in playing the game, just not watching Samus contradict everything I've come to know about her. This seems like a very much "love/hate" situation, and people saying "oh you just need to accept it" can go express their absolutist opinions elsewhere. Some of us can disagree if we want.

foxhound_fox
Except we never really knew much about Samus as a character, which is why Other M fleshes her out. Fusion did the same to an extent. All other Metroid games dont give any insight to how Samus thinks.
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Michael0134567

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#90 Michael0134567
Member since 2008 • 28651 Posts

other M was terrible reguardless but i think shadow complex killed other M by being the better metroid game. samus was just one of the flaws in that game.

kobraka1
Have you played it?
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tume-x

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#91 tume-x
Member since 2006 • 532 Posts

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

Well this isint IGN as a whole agreeing with this. This is 1 person who works there. Since the person who actually reviewed the game liked the way she was handeled. I personally also like how she was handeled.

Master_ShakeXXX

Yeah, and you also like how Ninja Theory is handling the new DmC. You truly are a... unique individual, finalfantasy... :?

Ummm.. Ninja Theory is NOT Team Ninja... The guys who make the new DmC are the ones who made Heavenly Sword for PS3, they're a small british company.. The guys who made Metroid Other M are the ones who made Ninja Gaiden & Dead Or Alive, which is a japanese company that is a part of Tecmo.

ALSO: On topic, the Samus in Metroid: Other M is basically the same she was in Metroid: Fusion for Gameboy Advance, and a lot like the one in Super Metroid for SNES. I can't believe people are complaining. This game is a lot more faithful to the originals on NES,SNES and Gameboy. Seems like some people don't even know the Metroid: Prime -trilogy is not the original Metroid-series.

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Phazevariance

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#92 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts
I think the way they portrayed Samuel was fine. She's imperfect. She's strong because of her problematic past which developed her need to be alone. She has a fear of riddley because he's her mortal enemy, she faces him a lot. They gave her a love interest and a broken heart. These are normal characteristics and fit well into her characters past portrayals. She's still strong and agile, she still wants to be alone on her missions. I think they did a great job!
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foxhound_fox

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#93 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Except we never really knew much about Samus as a character, which is why Other M fleshes her out. Fusion did the same to an extent. All other Metroid games dont give any insight to how Samus thinks.Scythes777

We knew a lot. Have you ever heard the phrase "90% of conversation is body language, only 10% is verbal"? Well, if we apply that to this situation, we can infer a lot from Samus' actions.

Such as the opening of Super Metroid, where she hands the baby metroid over to the Federation, with little concern as to what they would do to it (naivety to their intentions, optimism for the benefit of the galaxy). Or corollary to that, in Metroid II: Return of Samus, where she destroys every single last metroid on SR388, with little more than a soldiers repose (her brutal efficiency overpowers any possibility of her being concerned for them as life forms). Or in Metroid: Fusion where she directly states she "doesn't like taking orders" at the beginning of the game, and is only following the AI CO because the Federation paid for her new ship (with no mention of them saving her life from the X parasite).

Also, from the number of instances that she has interacted with Ridley (Metroid, Super Metroid [x2], Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption [x2]) and defeated him, her reaction to his appearance in Other M is strikingly different. At no instance in any of the previous games does she "freeze" before him and then go on to kill him... no, she just goes straight to fighting. From this, we can infer that Sakamoto may be attempting to rewrite the entire canon of past Metroid games, or even retcon the entire series up until that point. The only instance where her reaction in Other M would be tenable, would be in the original Metroid (or Zero Mission, its remake, where there is a reaction of "surprise" at his arrival in ZM).

I can list more examples if you like. Samus only ever refers to Adam in Fusion as a "friend" and nothing more (having the idea that she has a "crush" on him, as I've heard is implied in Other M, goes against what she said in Fusion, which came chronologically after Other M). She respects him as more of a father figure than authority (as she never had a father growing up). Fusion is an absolute treasure trove of references, even with its scant dialogue. For instance ***mild spoiler*** when Samus finally realizes what the Federation are doing with the station, and the research they are doing, she gets really angry at the AI CO, and contradicts her orders outright (which she only follows loosely throughout the game anyways). ***spoiler end*** [spoiler] The Federation wanted to limit her ability to fight the SA-X once they learned its true potential (as a possible weapon), so they tried their best not to have Samus destroy it (because she knew it would be a threat to all life in the galaxy, and like always, she was more than willing to do whatever it takes to destroy it), and get her off the station (or contained within) before they arrived. But she thwarted all of it, and then realized that Adam of all people was the AI CO helping and directing her all along, and only with his help could she finish the job. [/spoiler]
Samus is a quiet character... but that doesn't mean we can't know a lot about her, and see how this contradicts her depiction in the newest game in the series. From all past games, it has been implied that she is a strong, cold, and ruthless killer on the outside, and deep down inside, there might just be a compassionate and caring woman always concerned about doing what she felt was right, no matter the cost to herself, or anyone else. Don't tell me the other games don't represent her character... because actions speak much louder than words.

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Scythes777

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#94 Scythes777
Member since 2006 • 2796 Posts

[QUOTE="Scythes777"]

Except we never really knew much about Samus as a character, which is why Other M fleshes her out. Fusion did the same to an extent. All other Metroid games dont give any insight to how Samus thinks.foxhound_fox

We knew a lot. Have you ever heard the phrase "90% of conversation is body language, only 10% is verbal"? Well, if we apply that to this situation, we can infer a lot from Samus' actions.

Such as the opening of Super Metroid, where she hands the baby metroid over to the Federation, with little concern as to what they would do to it (naivety to their intentions, optimism for the benefit of the galaxy). Or corollary to that, in Metroid II: Return of Samus, where she destroys every single last metroid on SR388, with little more than a soldiers repose (her brutal efficiency overpowers any possibility of her being concerned for them as life forms). Or in Metroid: Fusion where she directly states she "doesn't like taking orders" at the beginning of the game, and is only following the AI CO because the Federation paid for her new ship (with no mention of them saving her life from the X parasite).

Also, from the number of instances that she has interacted with Ridley (Metroid, Super Metroid [x2], Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption [x2]) and defeated him, her reaction to his appearance in Other M is strikingly different. At no instance in any of the previous games does she "freeze" before him and then go on to kill him... no, she just goes straight to fighting. From this, we can infer that Sakamoto may be attempting to rewrite the entire canon of past Metroid games, or even retcon the entire series up until that point. The only instance where her reaction in Other M would be tenable, would be in the original Metroid (or Zero Mission, its remake, where there is a reaction of "surprise" at his arrival in ZM).

I can list more examples if you like. Samus only ever refers to Adam in Fusion as a "friend" and nothing more (having the idea that she has a "crush" on him, as I've heard is implied in Other M, goes against what she said in Fusion, which came chronologically after Other M). She respects him as more of a father figure than authority (as she never had a father growing up). Fusion is an absolute treasure trove of references, even with its scant dialogue. For instance ***mild spoiler*** when Samus finally realizes what the Federation are doing with the station, and the research they are doing, she gets really angry at the AI CO, and contradicts her orders outright (which she only follows loosely throughout the game anyways). ***spoiler end*** [spoiler] The Federation wanted to limit her ability to fight the SA-X once they learned its true potential (as a possible weapon), so they tried their best not to have Samus destroy it (because she knew it would be a threat to all life in the galaxy, and like always, she was more than willing to do whatever it takes to destroy it), and get her off the station (or contained within) before they arrived. But she thwarted all of it, and then realized that Adam of all people was the AI CO helping and directing her all along, and only with his help could she finish the job. [/spoiler]
Samus is a quiet character... but that doesn't mean we can't know a lot about her, and see how this contradicts her depiction in the newest game in the series. From all past games, it has been implied that she is a strong, cold, and ruthless killer on the outside, and deep down inside, there might just be a compassionate and caring woman always concerned about doing what she felt was right, no matter the cost to herself, or anyone else. Don't tell me the other games don't represent her character... because actions speak much louder than words.

Honestly, I think youre looking far too into it. Before Fusion, Metroid was all about gameplay first and foremost. Maybe the reason Samus never "froze up" when she saw Ridley in Metroid or SM was because the developers disnt care about fleshing out Samus as a character then, and just wanted to focus on gameplay. It was never shown how Samus reacted to the death of the baby metroid in SM, nor did SM show any regret in Samus delivering the baby Metroid to the federation. SM was never a story heavy game, hence why we never got to hear Samus' thoughts.

Now Sakamoto wanted to finally flesh out Samus as a character and make a different Metroid altogether. This is where Fusion and Other M come in. We finally learn how Samus thinks of her actions and past, which no other Metroid game has done.

And a reason why Samus froze up could be because "I was reliving the moments of my recent past." She obviously was very sensitive during Other M, I mean the whole baby dying right above her, seeing Adam again after who knows how long, and to top it all off Ridley who was supposed to be dead but makes a surprise return and comes out of nowhere. Also the Prime games may or may not be canon, so you cant exactly count those Ridley encounters. She had also seen Ridley in the beginning of Super Metroid and had most likely had Known Ridley was on Zebes during Metroid.

And one last thing about Adam, she just saw him as a father figure, as she says in Other M.

Anyways I could go on, but I really dont want to right now. Samus' actions are clear and logical in Other M regardless.

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Juken7

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#95 Juken7
Member since 2009 • 626 Posts

I just beat Prime 2 and there is no way in hell it's the same Samus as Other M.

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Toki1776

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#96 Toki1776
Member since 2005 • 264 Posts

I just beat Prime 2 and there is no way in hell it's the same Samus as Other M.

Juken7
How do you come to this conclusion?
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Parasomniac

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#97 Parasomniac
Member since 2007 • 2723 Posts
Samus is supposed to act like female Shepard.
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Vaasman

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#98 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15877 Posts

Samus is supposed to act like female Shepard.Parasomniac
That woulda been awesome, especially if it was renegade shepard.

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#99 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]Samus is supposed to act like female Shepard.Vaasman

That woulda been awesome, especially if it was renegade shepard.

So cheesy Arnold one-liners? That would be fairly awesome in Metroid.
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#100 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15877 Posts

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]Samus is supposed to act like female Shepard.DarkLink77

That woulda been awesome, especially if it was renegade shepard.

So cheesy Arnold one-liners? That would be fairly awesome in Metroid.

I certainly woulda preferred that to the only one-liner in the whole game.

"Mother, time to go!"

*barf*