I'm Sorry but ....WTF happened to this Genre!? *56k no!*

There are two things I can predict that will happen due to this thread:

#1 Cows will be in an outrage.

#2 Willy105's head will explode to how much he apperciates this thread.

Okay so I'll just start now:

You see this?

THIS is a 3D platformer.

It focuses on platforming.

It has you explore areas in a complete non-linear route.

It has level based progression which is also non-linear in progress at least.

You collect multiple items that unlock areas and other things.

Now tell me....WTF is this?

What the hell happened?

What happened to the overworld exploration?

What happened to the platforming in general?

What happened to platforming being the main focus? The majority of these games (if not all of them) focus more so on moving foward, take out enemies with weapons, progress, and repeat, hence an ACTION GAME. Put these games in 2D they would be catergorize as side-scrollers and not platformers.

And I know what people are going to say:

"The genre just evolved"

No it hasn't. Even if these games were platformers they are worse in every conceivable manner of what a platformer is. There is less platforming as well as creative platforming. Take Banjo-Kazooie for example I had to jump onto roof tops, into garden tops, then to another roof top, jump from platform of brick to platform of bricks, climb a pole to get the puzzle piece then do something simlar until I get all of them. With the current "platformers" all I do is follow a linear route which has minimum platforming (I should say jumping) and relys on you just attacking enemies then progressing. And don't get me started on this weapons business. In platformers you had simple moves to use so they don't disrupt the focus of the actual platforming. Other times they gave you more simple moves to be more creative on how you travel and take out enemies (but then again I suppose platformers today offer similar things). Okay compare this to a platformer now. "X, X, X, oh yeah tripple fly swatter hit". Oh crap there's an enemy time to bring out the machine gun "Ta-ta-ta-ta-ta....Ta-ta-ta-ta-ta". Got him. Did I also mention that the games that ran off the previous formula are probably more interactive then most games that come out today?

To me it's similar to the Rainbow Six games. They use to be solely tactical shooters and concentrated on well tactics. Now they use minimal tactics and focus mostly on the action.

"Your defining the genre too narrowly"

Hasn't it always been. I mean one just needs to look at the early days:

vs.

Looking at these screens you can obviously tell what I'm talking about. Games are put into genres do to what they put their main focus on. Sure the games on the latter of platforming aspects to them, but the difference between Contra and say Mario is that Mario focus's mainly on jumping as oppose to contra which focus's on shooting aliens hence why it's called a side-scrolling shooter.

Overall I'm not mad that there are games like these, I mean the more types of games the better right? I just don't agree that these games should represent the platforming genre and have the old 3D platformers die (discount Super Mario Galaxy what was the last platformer to use that formula to some aspect?)

And looking at the future it isn't that bright. I'm not sure if Kirby Wii has been cancelled, Rayman is offically a party game series (as well as Wario), Donkey Kong is now....something, and let's be honest is RARE up to reviving the Banjo series?

Well that's it.

Thoughts?

Opinions?

i agree its gone down hill.

but ratchet and clank is a good series

jak and dexter for ps3 wheres it at im interested to know

360 is getting banjo soon but it needs more.

i think platform games are a dying genre this gen

True dat

(DOUBLE TRUE!!!11)

I wish there was more crossover between the sandbox and platforming genre.

3D platformers do not need to be non-linear and they don't need to have collection aspects. They just need to focus on the platforming aspect of games in a 3D world and then you have yourself a 3D platformer.

3D platformers do not need to be non-linear and they don't need to have collection aspects. They just need to focus on the platforming aspect of games in a 3D world and then you have yourself a 3D platformer.

Blaxploitation

Actually collecting things in a game is now a big part of platforming. Just look at Mario 64,sunshine and Galaxy. Jak and Daxter series started as a platformer,but 2 and 3 kind of strayed away from that,but its still an awsome game.

You know what? I'm an idiot, I am an idiot because I started a thread asking a question I already know.

What f'ed up the genre? Technology did. The way gaming forces developers to "evolve" with the times to give the player an experience only possible on that console (hence harnassing power).

No this isn't an intended bring up to my threads in the GUFU (this is purely coiencidence).

I mean how could you improve Banjo-Kazooie? Bigger map? No that would make it too confusing and worsen the level design. More detail? Everything would be cluttered together. Essentially it's similar to a fighting game, all you could give it is better graphics.

This reminds me of the RPG genre. I mean the genre was essentially perfected a decade ago:

As well as tons of creative ideas being put out:

Thinking about it these RPG's are more ambitious then the ones we currently have.

Then technological standards forced developers to change the games (make them 3D, mix and match genres with them, etc.)

I mean just compare these projects:

To their previous projects:

But yeah sorry for the rant, these kinda things make me pist.

Gunraidan

Isn't Blue dragon a pure JRPG experience also LO. They are both in 3d,but still present the same gameplay that make the games fun. SO whats the problem? Also people take chances to make the audience more bigger. Maybe someone who plays a Bioware game that wasn't into rpg's might take a glance at them now since they enjoy leveling up and management. Its just devs want to try to please everyone sometimes. Also gain a new audiance. If dont like those types of RPG's fine dont buy them,but there is a market for games like ME.

[QUOTE="Blaxploitation"]

3D platformers do not need to be non-linear and they don't need to have collection aspects. They just need to focus on the platforming aspect of games in a 3D world and then you have yourself a 3D platformer.

finalfantasy94

Actually collecting things in a game is now a big part of platforming. Just look at Mario 64,sunshine and Galaxy. Jak and Daxter series started as a platformer,but 2 and 3 kind of strayed away from that,but its still an awsome game.

1. The collection aspects of the Mario games aren't really that prevalent as opposed to, say, Donkey Kong 64. Collecting the stars is just another form of level completion and stuff like the red/blue/purple coins isn't really a major aspect of the game.

2. The collection aspect is pretty standard in platformers but that doesn't mean that it's a part of the genre as a whole. It's just a standard adopted from the top games.

I really would like to see a real platforming game, Mario games are nice but they are pretty linear, I'd like to see the sandbox type of gameplay I seen before.Jynxzor

I agree with you, and it might interest you to know that Rare said that Banjo 3 will have more freedom than the originals.

I know I may sound like a sore thumb, but I'm not getting my hopes up for Banjo 3, if it rocks then hell yes I'm picking it up...but it has ALOT to live up to.Jynxzor

I'm kind of skeptical as well, but I've been waiting for this game for years. Even if I don't have high hopes and it flops, I'll be pissed, so I might as well be hyped for it now.

It happens to lots of genres they all get turned into shooter games to appeal to the masses. Sucks doesn't it but I guess theres no stopping it.Dahaka-UK

Shadow the hedgehog tells me otherwise...oh wait...

yea ratchet and clank series are a joke nothing like the old banjos games seriousleydgo71102244

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

ReverseCycology

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]I really would like to see a real platforming game, Mario games are nice but they are pretty linear, I'd like to see the sandbox type of gameplay I seen before.KrazyKenKutarag

I agree with you, and it might interest you to know that Rare said that Banjo 3 will have more freedom than the originals.

[QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

Taalon

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

DrinkDuff

Um, no it won't. Everything in life goes through cycles. By the end of this gen FPS will probably go into habitat from the gluttony its titles have put forth and platformers will probably come back again until people are sick of them again.

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

soulsofblayck

Um, no it won't. Everything in life goes through cycles. By the end of this gen FPS will probably go into habitat from the gluttony its titles have put forth and platformers will probably come back again until people are sick of them again.

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

DrinkDuff

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

soulsofblayck

Um, no it won't. Everything in life goes through cycles. By the end of this gen FPS will probably go into habitat from the gluttony its titles have put forth and platformers will probably come back again until people are sick of them again.

Are you saying we got sick of platformers at the last gens because I know I didn't, they just suddenly disappeared replaced by swarms of generic shooter games. People should be sick of FPS/TPS games by now cause theres been hardly any veriaty for about 2 years nearly.

[QUOTE="soulsofblayck"][QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

Dahaka-UK

Um, no it won't. Everything in life goes through cycles. By the end of this gen FPS will probably go into habitat from the gluttony its titles have put forth and platformers will probably come back again until people are sick of them again.

Are you saying we got sick of platformers at the last gens because I know I didn't, they just suddenly disappeared replaced by swarms of generic shooter games. People should be sick of FPS/TPS games by now cause theres been hardly any veriaty for about 2 years nearly.

Like FPS at a peak, 3D platformers on PS1 and N64 at an early cycle were amazing. There was Crash Bandicoot, SM64, Spyro, Banjo, etc. Then you notice crap start coming out as people get good games, stuff like Croc, later Spyros, later crashes finally arriving on the PS2/GC/XBOX until it loses its vision. Thus, every genre starts out great, devs recognize potential for money, make a disgusting amount of games within the genre which most are garbage and then the genre rests for a little.

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"]

You know what happened, blu ray is what happened. Blu ray = high def = better graphics, and it seems like most people, mostly cows just care about graphics and not these wonderful platforming gameplays. *sigh* I glad there's still the Wii and 360 with games like SMG, Kameo, etc.

Taalon

[QUOTE="KrazyKenKutarag"]

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]I really would like to see a real platforming game, Mario games are nice but they are pretty linear, I'd like to see the sandbox type of gameplay I seen before.DrinkDuff

I agree with you, and it might interest you to know that Rare said that Banjo 3 will have more freedom than the originals.

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="KrazyKenKutarag"]

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]I really would like to see a real platforming game, Mario games are nice but they are pretty linear, I'd like to see the sandbox type of gameplay I seen before.Ghost_Dub

I agree with you, and it might interest you to know that Rare said that Banjo 3 will have more freedom than the originals.

Very good points.

Oh and maximum Kudos with the R6 to Vegas comment - very true.

Yeah LBP looks great, but it's not an open-ended, nonlinear platformer. The 3d platformer is dead, and it will continue to be, unless Banjo Kazooie 3 delivers an experience meeting the standards of the originals.
DrinkDuff

As someone who is REALLY into platformers, I'm sorry but I don't see it in Little Big Planet. Sure it looks interesting but it seems to focus a little too much on physics and not enough on pure level design. I know that's the point of the game but still.

Um, no it won't. Everything in life goes through cycles. By the end of this gen FPS will probably go into habitat from the gluttony its titles have put forth and platformers will probably come back again until people are sick of them again.

soulsofblayck

Not really. What generally happens is that the wants new experiences thus console makers launch new systems with more power (for money obviously) and what ever harnasses that power and appeals to the userbase wins.

The 32-Bit generation had RPG's because they could be really long with tons of character recruiting and what not making them ideal to the introduction of the disk format.

This generation it is shooters because they really push for realism (one of the extremly few genres where better physics and A.I. is needed) as well as harnass online.

Sadly few games harnass the systems power and as well appeal to the market as much, hence why there are so few other genres with high production values being made on the current generation of consoles that focus on those things.

Like FPS at a peak, 3D platformers on PS1 and N64 at an early cycle were amazing. There was Crash Bandicoot, SM64, Spyro, Banjo, etc. Then you notice crap start coming out as people get good games, stuff like Croc, later Spyros, later crashes finally arriving on the PS2/GC/XBOX until it loses its vision. Thus, every genre starts out great, devs recognize potential for money, make a disgusting amount of games within the genre which most are garbage and then the genre rests for a little.

soulsofblayck

That isn't what happened at all. First off outside the N64 the 3D platformer wasn't made that much. Second off it was early in the 16-bit and 8-bit generation where platformers held king. Third off even at the tail end of that generations lifespan games like Rayman 2, Conker's Bad Fur Day (roughly catergorized as a platformer), Banjo-Tooie, and others came out. They didn't kick the can until they went to the PS2 and realized that small open-world maps just doesn't do it anymore with this age in technology.

Yes, and Meet The Spartans gets some revenue. Life sucks, nothing new, people will be pwned. wemhim

And people are saying that the casual gaming market just came in with the Wii.

so i guess platforms you can't shoot in. once you shoot your not playing a platform game. rchet and clank you can venture any were you want to find things like bolts and gold large bolts. what is the differance. again another thread making sony the bad guy here. just because you don't jump on the bad guys it not considered a platform. i bet half te people here has not played rachet and clank tools because the levels are not linear you can shoose which way you want to go.

what happen to metriod being a fps but yet people here still actack only sony.

not one person attack the 360 because one game that we have nothing to show is coming even though the devs said it will not be your typical platform game. at least the ps 3 has a platform game.

so i guess platforms you can't shoot in. once you shoot your not playing a platform game. rchet and clank you can venture any were you want to find things like bolts and gold large bolts. what is the differance. again another thread making sony the bad guy here. just because you don't jump on the bad guys it not considered a platform. i bet half te people here has not played rachet and clank tools because the levels are not linear you can shoose which way you want to go.

what happen to metriod being a fps but yet people here still actack only sony.

not one person attack the 360 because one game that we have nothing to show is coming even though the devs said it will not be your typical platform game. at least the ps 3 has a platform game.

GARRYTH

Play Banjo-Kazooie and then Super Mario Galaxy, then play Rachet. HUGE difference. It doesn't matter how much crap you collect or how much you jump. It matters on how much the games focus on actual platforming something that those games DON'T do.

Just because the main characters are "mascots" doesn't mean that it's a platformer. It's just like people think Zelda is a RPG because it has a medieval setting.

Platforming had to evolve to reach a wider audience. It was necessary. Was it good? I don't know, Ratchet and Jak are still fun games (hilarious at times) but have clearly wandered far away from true platforming.Tiefster

And they still sell like crap.

It happens to lots of genres they all get turned into shooter games to appeal to the masses. Sucks doesn't it but I guess theres no stopping it.Dahaka-UK

Personally, Ratchet and Clank > Banjo. Just my opinion, I like the action more :D

[QUOTE="GARRYTH"]

so i guess platforms you can't shoot in. once you shoot your not playing a platform game. rchet and clank you can venture any were you want to find things like bolts and gold large bolts. what is the differance. again another thread making sony the bad guy here. just because you don't jump on the bad guys it not considered a platform. i bet half te people here has not played rachet and clank tools because the levels are not linear you can shoose which way you want to go.

what happen to metriod being a fps but yet people here still actack only sony.

not one person attack the 360 because one game that we have nothing to show is coming even though the devs said it will not be your typical platform game. at least the ps 3 has a platform game.

Gunraidan

Play Banjo-Kazooie and then Super Mario Galaxy, then play Rachet. HUGE difference. It doesn't matter how much crap you collect or how much you jump. It matters on how much the games focus on actual platforming something that those games DON'T do.

Just because the main characters are "mascots" doesn't mean that it's a platformer. It's just like people think Zelda is a RPG because it has a medieval setting.

Platforming had to evolve to reach a wider audience. It was necessary. Was it good? I don't know, Ratchet and Jak are still fun games (hilarious at times) but have clearly wandered far away from true platforming.Tiefster

And they still sell like crap.

I didn't know selling over one million was crap.