In 10-20 years, the Wii will take its place in the National Toy Hall of Fame...

[QUOTE="ramey70"]The simple meaning of a toy according to Webster is "something for a child to play with". When I was 9 my dad bought me a pump action 410 gauge shotgun and I could use it whenever I wanted to kill nutrea in some of our stock tanks. According to marajntilla a shotgun is toy.Jandurin

Oh it was definitely for enjoyment. It was much cheaper and effective for him to just poison them.

[QUOTE="ramey70"]The simple meaning of a toy according to Webster is "something for a child to play with". When I was 9 my dad bought me a pump action 410 gauge shotgun and I could use it whenever I wanted to kill nutrea in some of our stock tanks. According to marajntilla a shotgun is toy.mjarantilla

Sure, why not? If that's the definition you want to use for "toy," then video games are still definitely toys. And it's not "according to me" if you pulled that definition out of the dictionary.

But a child can play with anything. So I guess everything is a toy, even socks.

That's fine. So now games are toys instead of consoles? That still suits me. It still means we're all gathering around Internet forums discussing toys.

mjarantilla

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

They're not toys- they are consoles. :|

ramey70

Keep telling yourself that as you shop in the "PS3/360 Games" aisles of Best Buy or EBGames and see yourself picking up the same games as the 12 year old kid standing next to you.

According to the ESA, the average age of the most frequent game buyer is38 years old. In 2007, 92 percent of computer game buyers and 80 percent of console game buyers were over the age of 18.

Game buyers. Not game players. I can bet you that those 38 year old buyers often have a 10-15 year old player standing next to them salivating.

Wrong again. Also according to the ESA the average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for12 years.

Actually:

For Console Gamers...

* Forty percent of most frequent game players are under eighteen years old.
* Thirty-five percent of most frequent game players are between 18 and 35 years old.
* Twenty-five percent of most frequent game players are over 35 years old.

So 60% of the most frequent gamers are over the age of 18. Thank you for helping my arguement.

And 40% of the most frequent gamers are still children. No matter how you spin it, it's still obvious that kids make up the biggest marketing demographic.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

[QUOTE="ramey70"]The simple meaning of a toy according to Webster is "something for a child to play with". When I was 9 my dad bought me a pump action 410 gauge shotgun and I could use it whenever I wanted to kill nutrea in some of our stock tanks. According to marajntilla a shotgun is toy.ramey70

Sure, why not? If that's the definition you want to use for "toy," then video games are still definitely toys. And it's not "according to me" if you pulled that definition out of the dictionary.

But a child can play with anything. So I guess everything is a toy, even socks.

Never heard of sock puppets? :P

Yes, everything is a toy by the definition you chose. Since that's obviously a little too broad for our uses, I tried to come up with a more specific definition.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ramey70"]The simple meaning of a toy according to Webster is "something for a child to play with". When I was 9 my dad bought me a pump action 410 gauge shotgun and I could use it whenever I wanted to kill nutrea in some of our stock tanks. According to marajntilla a shotgun is toy.ramey70

Oh it was definitely for enjoyment. It was much cheaper and effective for him to just poison them.

Well, guns are toys. Seen A Christmas Story?

When you go to a Toys'R'Us, you see all the toys there. Also you see vieoggames there because as a society, people think videogames are toys. Also in Toys'R'Us, they sell movies and music. So are movies and music toys, too?

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

That's fine. So now games are toys instead of consoles? That still suits me. It still means we're all gathering around Internet forums discussing toys.

Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

They're not toys- they are consoles. :|

mjarantilla

Keep telling yourself that as you shop in the "PS3/360 Games" aisles of Best Buy or EBGames and see yourself picking up the same games as the 12 year old kid standing next to you.

According to the ESA, the average age of the most frequent game buyer is38 years old. In 2007, 92 percent of computer game buyers and 80 percent of console game buyers were over the age of 18.

Game buyers. Not game players. I can bet you that those 38 year old buyers often have a 10-15 year old player standing next to them salivating.

Wrong again. Also according to the ESA the average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for12 years.

Actually:

For Console Gamers...

* Forty percent of most frequent game players are under eighteen years old.
* Thirty-five percent of most frequent game players are between 18 and 35 years old.
* Twenty-five percent of most frequent game players are over 35 years old.

So 60% of the most frequent gamers are over the age of 18. Thank you for helping my arguement.

And 40% of the most frequent gamers are still children. No matter how you spin it, it's still obvious that kids make up the biggest marketing demographic.

How can they be the biggest demographic if they don't even constitute a majority? In addition of those frequent gamers under 18 how many are kids? (I don't consider anyone over the age of 14 a kid, especially here in Texas were they can be charged as an adult at that age).

[QUOTE="ramey70"]The simple meaning of a toy according to Webster is "something for a child to play with". When I was 9 my dad bought me a pump action 410 gauge shotgun and I could use it whenever I wanted to kill nutrea in some of our stock tanks. According to marajntilla a shotgun is toy.Jandurin

you dont use a 410 to kill nutrea, you use a .22 rifle. I saw someone do it.

How can they be the biggest demographic if they don't even constitute a majority? In addition of those frequent gamers under 18 how many are kids? (I don't consider anyone over the age of 14 a kid, especially here in Texas were they can be charged as an adult at that age). ramey70

What the hell is nutrea?

[QUOTE="ramey70"]How can they be the biggest demographic if they don't even constitute a majority? In addition of those frequent gamers under 18 how many are kids? (I don't consider anyone over the age of 14 a kid, especially here in Texas were they can be charged as an adult at that age). Jandurin

What the hell is nutrea?

NutreaThis nutrea is a non-native species that was introduced from South America. It eats theroots of marsh plants and has been known to cause massive damage to large sections of wetland. It is a definate nusance species whichwetland managers are attempting to limit or eliminate.

aka: giant rat thing that nobody likes.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

That's fine. So now games are toys instead of consoles? That still suits me. It still means we're all gathering around Internet forums discussing toys.

mjarantilla

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="ramey70"]How can they be the biggest demographic if they don't even constitute a majority? In addition of those frequent gamers under 18 how many are kids? (I don't consider anyone over the age of 14 a kid, especially here in Texas were they can be charged as an adult at that age). laughingman42

What the hell is nutrea?

NutreaThis nutrea is a non-native species that was introduced from South America. It eats theroots of marsh plants and has been known to cause massive damage to large sections of wetland. It is a definate nusance species whichwetland managers are attempting to limit or eliminate.

Many of those little ******** succombed to my skillful aim as a child.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

They're not toys- they are consoles. :|

ramey70

Keep telling yourself that as you shop in the "PS3/360 Games" aisles of Best Buy or EBGames and see yourself picking up the same games as the 12 year old kid standing next to you.

According to the ESA, the average age of the most frequent game buyer is38 years old. In 2007, 92 percent of computer game buyers and 80 percent of console game buyers were over the age of 18.

Game buyers. Not game players. I can bet you that those 38 year old buyers often have a 10-15 year old player standing next to them salivating.

Wrong again. Also according to the ESA the average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for12 years.

Actually:

For Console Gamers...

* Forty percent of most frequent game players are under eighteen years old.
* Thirty-five percent of most frequent game players are between 18 and 35 years old.
* Twenty-five percent of most frequent game players are over 35 years old.

So 60% of the most frequent gamers are over the age of 18. Thank you for helping my arguement.

And 40% of the most frequent gamers are still children. No matter how you spin it, it's still obvious that kids make up the biggest marketing demographic.

How can they be the biggest demographic if they don't even constitute a majority? In addition of those frequent gamers under 18 how many are kids? (I don't consider anyone over the age of 14 a kid, especially here in Texas were they can be charged as an adult at that age).

They're the biggest demographic because the 18-35 market is different from the 35+ market, and so aren't generally lumped together. The Wii's target demographic brackets are the under-18 and over-35 markets, while the 360 and PS3's target demographic is the 18-35 market. But the biggest demographic is still under-18.

Demographics aren't limited to two brackets (a majority and minority).

is a dvd player a toy?

Wow. That thing looks fake. It was photoshopped, right? :P

Is that zoomed, or is it actually as large as it looks?

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

That's fine. So now games are toys instead of consoles? That still suits me. It still means we're all gathering around Internet forums discussing toys.

Teufelhuhn

Then it becomes a game, so yes, it's a toy.

Sure you can. If you get to the end of the movie, you win. If you don't, you lose. :P

Like Dragon's Lair or Space Ace, which are basically what you just described: interactive movies.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="ramey70"]How can they be the biggest demographic if they don't even constitute a majority? In addition of those frequent gamers under 18 how many are kids? (I don't consider anyone over the age of 14 a kid, especially here in Texas were they can be charged as an adult at that age). laughingman42

What the hell is nutrea?

Nutrea

This nutrea is a non-native species that was introduced from South America. It eats theroots of marsh plants and has been known to cause massive damage to large sections of wetland. It is a definate nusance species whichwetland managers are attempting to limit or eliminate.

aka: giant rat thing that nobody likes.

"Nutrea" sounds like some kind of fungus.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

That's fine. So now games are toys instead of consoles? That still suits me. It still means we're all gathering around Internet forums discussing toys.

mjarantilla

Then it becomes a game, so yes, it's a toy.

Sure you can. If you get to the end of the movie, you win. If you don't, you lose. :P

Like Dragon's Lair, which is basically what you just described.

In my hypothetical DVD movie there's no losing, you just end up with a different ending.
Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

That's fine. So now games are toys instead of consoles? That still suits me. It still means we're all gathering around Internet forums discussing toys.

Teufelhuhn

Then it becomes a game, so yes, it's a toy.

Sure you can. If you get to the end of the movie, you win. If you don't, you lose. :P

Like Dragon's Lair, which is basically what you just described.

Who's to say the "different ending" is not the losing ending? Or the winning ending? Even in current games, especially RPGs, there can be multiple endings, some or none or all of which can be considered "winning" or "losing" or neither.

Didn't Splinter Cell DA have like five endings, three of which were "eehhhhhh.....ok, but not really winning" endings for the game?

Who's to say the "different ending" is not the losing ending? Or the winning ending? Even in current games, especially RPGs, there can be multiple endings, some or none or all of which can be considered "winning" or "losing" or neither.

Didn't Splinter Cell DA have like five endings, three of which were "eehhhhhh.....ok, but not really winning" endings for the game?

mjarantilla

That's part of my point. There's always examples that refuse to play by the rules when you try to broadly categorize them. Teufelhuhn

Teh H4x!!!

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Who's to say the "different ending" is not the losing ending? Or the winning ending? Even in current games, especially RPGs, there can be multiple endings, some or none or all of which can be considered "winning" or "losing" or neither.

Didn't Splinter Cell DA have like five endings, three of which were "eehhhhhh.....ok, but not really winning" endings for the game?

Teufelhuhn

Except these defy your rules. They still fit well within mine. :) I've made no stipulation as to the necessity of having both a "winning" and a "losing" ending to a game.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]That's part of my point. There's always examples that refuse to play by the rules when you try to broadly categorize them. Jandurin

Teh H4x!!!

Its true, I've been using DebateBOTS. :cry:

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Who's to say the "different ending" is not the losing ending? Or the winning ending? Even in current games, especially RPGs, there can be multiple endings, some or none or all of which can be considered "winning" or "losing" or neither.

Didn't Splinter Cell DA have like five endings, three of which were "eehhhhhh.....ok, but not really winning" endings for the game?

mjarantilla

Except these defy your rules. They still fit well within mine. :) I've made no stipulation as to the necessity of having both a "winning" and a "losing" ending to a game.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Who's to say the "different ending" is not the losing ending? Or the winning ending? Even in current games, especially RPGs, there can be multiple endings, some or none or all of which can be considered "winning" or "losing" or neither.

Didn't Splinter Cell DA have like five endings, three of which were "eehhhhhh.....ok, but not really winning" endings for the game?

Teufelhuhn

Except these defy your rules. They still fit well within mine. :) I've made no stipulation as to the necessity of having both a "winning" and a "losing" ending to a game.

To restate my definition, it's "toys are interactive products manufactured for the purposes of home entertainment and leisure."

...while the 360 and PS3 and their successors (if any) will languish in their fifteen minutes of lime light before being forgotten forever.

Before you say it, YES, the 360 and PS3 and every single video game console that has been made and will ever be made are all toys, as much as insecure fanboys what to claim otherwise.

mjarantilla

Obviously it's selling like wild and word of mouth has some people trying video games that never had much use for them before but frankly I'm not sure that items like the Wii-mote are truly the future of gaming. I'm unconvinced that the gimic of that kind of controller will last much more than a year. Maybe if they come out with some really cool aps for it this Christmas season it will keep the momentum into next year but I'm not at all sure that there's really all that much more to be done with it that will continue to hold the casual gamer.

[QUOTE="laughingman42"]There is a toy hall of fame? awesome.ramey70

Yes, one of the toys is the cardboard box. Yes, as in a simple cardboard box. The Wii will have some great company.

What about the mexican Ball in a Cup!!?

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

...while the 360 and PS3 and their successors (if any) will languish in their fifteen minutes of lime light before being forgotten forever.

Before you say it, YES, the 360 and PS3 and every single video game console that has been made and will ever be made are all toys, as much as insecure fanboys what to claim otherwise.

RojAvon

Obviously it's selling like wild and word of mouth has some people trying video games that never had much use for them before but frankly I'm not sure that items like the Wii-mote are truly the future of gaming. I'm unconvinced that the gimic of that kind of controller will last much more than a year. Maybe if they come out with some really cool aps for it this Christmas season it will keep the momentum into next year but I'm not at all sure that there's really all that much more to be done with it that will continue to hold the casual gamer.