Innovation is still very alive

I just don't understand why people say that innovation is dead. There's been many games lately that are innovative. For the record, no gen was ever full of unique titles, but more so this gen than last even, we're getting more unique titles.

Understand- this is only examples, not all

Small step innovaters: Bioshock- used rpg elements and blended it into a shooter form, Timeshift- controlling of time and it works very well. Allows for stealth, crazy puzzles, and whatnot. , Assassin's Creed

Medium step innovaters: Kameo -combing of your powers, for ex. set and oil out and burn it- on the go), rock band, gears of war- this wasn't the first cover system, graw came before it and killswitch before thta, but it was the first game to use a cover system on the fly without having to settle stop, and plant.

Big step innovaters (no explanations here)- Little Big Planet, Viva Pinata, Banjo: Nuts and Bolts, Halo 3, Portal

Edit: it just occured to me some people may bash these, so I will give an explanation: LBP for the level design and co-op physics puzzles, Portal for the portal puzzles, Banjo for the vehicle creation puzzle stuff, Halo 3 for forge and the rise of theater mode/ video uploader, and Viva Pinata for it's utilzation of the environment into attracting... camera.. I really don't feel the need to explain this.

I'm afraid Bioshock is a horrid example, there are far more innovative FPS/RPG hybrids, even the game that came before it, System Shock 2, did it a lot better.

As for big step innovators, only Little Big Planet and Portal belong on the list, Banjo might make its "innovation" lose out as a platformer, so its not worth trading innovation for gameplay.

I just don't understand why people say that innovation is dead. There's been many games lately that are innovative. For the record, no gen was ever full of unique titles, but more so this gen than last even, we're getting more unique titles.

Understand- this is only examples, not all

Small step innovaters: Bioshock- used rpg elements and blended it into a shooter form, Timeshift- controlling of time and it works very well. Allows for stealth, crazy puzzles, and whatnot. , Assassin's Creed

Medium step innovaters: Kameo -combing of your powers, for ex. set and oil out and burn it- on the go), rock band, gears of war- this wasn't the first cover system, graw came before it and killswitch before thta, but it was the first game to use a cover system on the fly without having to settle stop, and plant.

Big step innovaters (no explanations here)- Little Big Planet, Viva Pinata, Banjo: Nuts and Bolts, Halo 3, Portal

Edit: it just occured to me some people may bash these, so I will give an explanation: LBP for the level design and co-op physics puzzles, Portal for the portal puzzles, Banjo for the vehicle creation puzzle stuff, Halo 3 for forge and the rise of theater mode/ video uploader, and Viva Pinata for it's utilzation of the environment into attracting... camera.. I really don't feel the need to explain this.

heydude4211

People overally complain about lack of innovation and then buy the 4th installment of a franchise or yet another FPS whose storyline is 6 hours and depends heavily on online.

I prefer fun games. Thats it, this is a hobby and I want to be entertained. Innovation doesnt always mean fun but I dont want devs to fear it either. I except that innovation will come in baby steps and I am ok with that but that last thing I wanna see is yet another person complain about innovation when their library is full of sports, FPS, racing games, or other generic genres.

The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.Kez1984

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

I try to support the weird wild games whenever I can. Nights and No More Heroes are proudly on my shelf. Even Killer 7 which was absolutely terrible gameplay wise. Innovative doesn't always = fun but at least they tried.

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

System Shock 2 is a much better game than Bioshock. Bioshock is simply a watered down mainstream version. 1/10 the atmosphere even with it's pretty art deco.

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

System Shock 2 felt a lot more immersive and the "world" was more unique, pretty graphics don't automatically make Bioshock better.

[QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.Kez1984

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

System Shock 2 is a much better game than Bioshock. Bioshock is simply a watered down mainstream version. 1/10 the atmosphere even with it's pretty art deco.

For many of us, especially those of us who don't play games on the PC, Bioshock was our first time playing System Shock 2.

[QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.cobrax75

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

Yeah, STALKER had like one of the best atmospheres and worlds ever, even it would be off the charts in comparison to Halo 3, it did RPG/FPS integration quite flawlessly, especially after it was patched up, some mods helped too, but it is also fine on its own.

[QUOTE="Kez1984"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.Bread_or_Decide

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

System Shock 2 is a much better game than Bioshock. Bioshock is simply a watered down mainstream version. 1/10 the atmosphere even with it's pretty art deco.

For many of us, especially those of us who don't play games on the PC, Bioshock was our first time playing System Shock 2.

I just don't understand why people say that innovation is dead. There's been many games lately that are innovative. For the record, no gen was ever full of unique titles, but more so this gen than last even, we're getting more unique titles.

Understand- this is only examples, not all

Small step innovaters: Bioshock- used rpg elements and blended it into a shooter form, Timeshift- controlling of time and it works very well. Allows for stealth, crazy puzzles, and whatnot. , Assassin's Creed

Medium step innovaters: Kameo -combing of your powers, for ex. set and oil out and burn it- on the go), rock band, gears of war- this wasn't the first cover system, graw came before it and killswitch before thta, but it was the first game to use a cover system on the fly without having to settle stop, and plant.

Big step innovaters (no explanations here)- Little Big Planet, Viva Pinata, Banjo: Nuts and Bolts, Halo 3, Portal

Edit: it just occured to me some people may bash these, so I will give an explanation: LBP for the level design and co-op physics puzzles, Portal for the portal puzzles, Banjo for the vehicle creation puzzle stuff, Halo 3 for forge and the rise of theater mode/ video uploader, and Viva Pinata for it's utilzation of the environment into attracting... camera.. I really don't feel the need to explain this.

heydude4211

[QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.cobrax75

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played (yes, some will argue that HL2 is better or whatever, but it feels like many other shooters). Besides that you can't argue that Grifball or the fact that a FPS allows for actually fun racing makes it generic.

ANd the main part I was talking about was forge. Have you actually ever played a game with it? So many things. You can do. Besides pingpong (lulz) its so fun to squish people with walls and... arh! You have no clue what you're talking about

[QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played

Oh boy.

[QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played (yes, some will argue that HL2 is better or whatever, but it feels like many other shooters). Besides that you can't argue that Grifball or the fact that a FPS allows for actually fun racing makes it generic.

ANd the main part I was talking about was forge. Have you actually ever played a game with it? So many things. You can do. Besides pingpong (lulz) its so fun to squish people with walls and... arh! You have no clue what you're talking about

you do realize that game editors and video recording tools are included with the majoirty of PC games?

Forge is not inovative at all....and its a terribly weak editor compared to what PC games get.

. Second of all MGS4 reinvented video games in general with a strong overall presentation. Ryoco

Wow, cut-scenes, how revolutionary.

A pretty game, I dont remember doom III.

Gosh, a story driven game, I don't recall Planetscape Torement or Baldur's Gate.

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="Kez1984"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.Kez1984

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

System Shock 2 is a much better game than Bioshock. Bioshock is simply a watered down mainstream version. 1/10 the atmosphere even with it's pretty art deco.

For many of us, especially those of us who don't play games on the PC, Bioshock was our first time playing System Shock 2.

Yea. I see what your saying, one can only measure by what they have experienced. I think when it comes to poeple who have played system shock 2 then went on to play Bioshock, you will probably be hard pressed to find people who think Bioshock is better, it is still a good game mind, alot of the formula is still there.

I wouldn't say so. I actually played the system shock games and bioshock. (go figure!). The thing is- they're not the same. They did look similar, but in reality System Shock is more of a horror fps with all those stats (which really aren't complex compared to a rpg) while bioshock tries to incoporate powers and atmoshere in a shooter. And SS2 had a good environment for the day, but it really didn't make you feel like it was a world due to tech limits.

[QUOTE="heydude4211"][QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.cobrax75

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played (yes, some will argue that HL2 is better or whatever, but it feels like many other shooters). Besides that you can't argue that Grifball or the fact that a FPS allows for actually fun racing makes it generic.

ANd the main part I was talking about was forge. Have you actually ever played a game with it? So many things. You can do. Besides pingpong (lulz) its so fun to squish people with walls and... arh! You have no clue what you're talking about

you do realize that game editors and video recording tools are included with the majoirty of PC games?

Forge is not inovative at all....and its a terribly weak editor compared to what PC games get.

see,exactly my point. forge is not just a game editor. It's realtime. Just use it. It's not an editor. There is NOTHING that lets you do what forge does. It's more comparable to something like garry's mod than a map editor, although MUCH different.

You really shouldn't try to convince somebody something when you don't know what it is, even more so when you haven't played with it.

Next up: The auctionhouse in Forza is like something, not really close, on the pc, right? Perhaps downloadble cars? lol

[QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"][QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played (yes, some will argue that HL2 is better or whatever, but it feels like many other shooters). Besides that you can't argue that Grifball or the fact that a FPS allows for actually fun racing makes it generic.

ANd the main part I was talking about was forge. Have you actually ever played a game with it? So many things. You can do. Besides pingpong (lulz) its so fun to squish people with walls and... arh! You have no clue what you're talking about

you do realize that game editors and video recording tools are included with the majoirty of PC games?

Forge is not inovative at all....and its a terribly weak editor compared to what PC games get.

see,exactly my point. forge is not just a game editor. It's realtime. Just use it. It's not an editor. There is NOTHING that lets you do what forge does. It's more comparable to something like garry's mod than a map editor, although MUCH different.

But...Garry's Mod existed first, there-for, it's not really anything innovative

[QUOTE="heydude4211"][QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"][QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.Kez1984

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played (yes, some will argue that HL2 is better or whatever, but it feels like many other shooters). Besides that you can't argue that Grifball or the fact that a FPS allows for actually fun racing makes it generic.

ANd the main part I was talking about was forge. Have you actually ever played a game with it? So many things. You can do. Besides pingpong (lulz) its so fun to squish people with walls and... arh! You have no clue what you're talking about

you do realize that game editors and video recording tools are included with the majoirty of PC games?

Forge is not inovative at all....and its a terribly weak editor compared to what PC games get.

see,exactly my point. forge is not just a game editor. It's realtime. Just use it. It's not an editor. There is NOTHING that lets you do what forge does. It's more comparable to something like garry's mod than a map editor, although MUCH different.

But...Garry's Mod existed first, there-for, it's not really anything innovative

But.... I said it's not the same. It can be an assortment of things, but my favorite is really a mp what-the-blam! experience.

Don't even talk to me about innovation. I own a PS3. Sony wrote the book on innovation. First of all, even though I haven't played it, Little Big Planet is the most innovative game this gen (c'mon the characters are really small and cute, now that's creative). Second of all MGS4 reinvented video games in general with a strong overall presentation. Plus six-axis. How come other systems didn't do motion sensing as well as Sony. Sony only switched to rumble because they didn't want to embarrass Nintendo with its obviously far superior motion sensing technology.Ryoco

[QUOTE="Ryoco"]Don't even talk to me about innovation. I own a PS3. Sony wrote the book on innovation. First of all, even though I haven't played it, Little Big Planet is the most innovative game this gen (c'mon the characters are really small and cute, now that's creative). Second of all MGS4 reinvented video games in general with a strong overall presentation. Plus six-axis. How come other systems didn't do motion sensing as well as Sony. Sony only switched to rumble because they didn't want to embarrass Nintendo with its obviously far superior motion sensing technology.Aljosa23

What's to feel bad about. Sony told me that they are going to be the best this gen. And how can they not. They just keep pumping out games on time over and over.

[QUOTE="Kez1984"][QUOTE="heydude4211"][QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"][QUOTE="cobrax75"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.heydude4211

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

they created a world much better than the one in Bioshock, especially STALKER....

as for your original post, if generic FPS's like Halo 3 can be put into the "big inovation" catogory, than Spore would just be off the chart.

how in any world is Halo generic? It lets you approach things in so many ways and is the most unique feeling FPS thatI have ever played (yes, some will argue that HL2 is better or whatever, but it feels like many other shooters). Besides that you can't argue that Grifball or the fact that a FPS allows for actually fun racing makes it generic.

ANd the main part I was talking about was forge. Have you actually ever played a game with it? So many things. You can do. Besides pingpong (lulz) its so fun to squish people with walls and... arh! You have no clue what you're talking about

you do realize that game editors and video recording tools are included with the majoirty of PC games?

Forge is not inovative at all....and its a terribly weak editor compared to what PC games get.

see,exactly my point. forge is not just a game editor. It's realtime. Just use it. It's not an editor. There is NOTHING that lets you do what forge does. It's more comparable to something like garry's mod than a map editor, although MUCH different.

But...Garry's Mod existed first, there-for, it's not really anything innovative

But.... I said it's not the same. It can be an assortment of things, but my favorite is really a mp what-the-blam! experience.

It does have that.. what are you talking about? Haven't you played Garry's Mod, live, with other players? Clearly not, you get 1% of garry's mod options wise in Forge.

But.... I said it's not the same. It can be an assortment of things, but my favorite is really a mp what-the-blam! experience.

heydude4211

There are many first person shooters that are similar, but they all fall in the same genre essentially, but they are not the same, a good example would be Halo, Doom has a guy in a green armoured suit with a mask and Halo has, oh, forget that comparison. Here's a good one, Halflife has headcrab zombies and Halo has the floo....ack, dammit. Ah, I got it, Halife has a Hivehand Gun and Halo has cool Needl...actually you know what? Forget it, your right. All the things you listed there were innovative, let's forget duke nukem had a melee kick or that you only had limited weapons and could throw grenades in rainbow 6 and be thank-full for the annoying shield-recharge. Mods and level editors didn't exist either.

[QUOTE="heydude4211"]

But.... I said it's not the same. It can be an assortment of things, but my favorite is really a mp what-the-blam! experience.

Kez1984

There are many first person shooters that are similar, but they all fall in the same genre essentially, but they are not the same, a good example would be Halo, Doom has a guy in a green armoured suit with a mask and Halo has, oh, forget that comparison. Here's a good one, Halflife has headcrab zombies and Halo has the floo....ack, dammit. Ah, I got it, Halife has a Hivehand Gun and Halo has cool Needl...actually you know what? Forget it, your right. All the things you listed there were innovative, let's forget duke nukem had a melee kick or that you only had limited weapons and could throw grenades in rainbow 6 and be thank-full for the annoying shield-recharge. Mods and level editors didn't exist either.

I know right. They should be more creative, like Sony. Killzone 2 is looking to be very creative and different in a futuristic FPS category that few have tried before. It's a big risk because others that have tried it have been very bad (except UT3, which you probably know very well). Plus Halo 3 copied the whole FPS thing. If they were truly creative they would have ventured into the 4th person genre. Plus Halo had guns, just like Doom. That's why I have a PS3 (not a fanboy) and that's why Halo sucks.

:lol: Stalker is a true FPSRPG. Why'd you bother listing Bioshock?SSCyborg

Because hes never played it. I bet he googled Garry's Mod to see what it actually was, and when he found out it was like Forge x10000 he got too depressed to post again.

ok wheres

spore

stalker

crysis - did the big action bubble thing really well (not really sandbox), and the nano suit gives more options on how you play

world in conflict - drop in drop out multiplayer

armed assualt - for having some seriously big maps for multiplayer and their new warfare mode is ace

You forgot Spore for being something that has never been done before in any shape, way, or form.meetroid8

TC is the same one who made a topic saying he didn't understand the hype for Spore.

[QUOTE="Ryoco"][QUOTE="Kez1984"][QUOTE="heydude4211"]

But.... I said it's not the same. It can be an assortment of things, but my favorite is really a mp what-the-blam! experience.

VoxteX

There are many first person shooters that are similar, but they all fall in the same genre essentially, but they are not the same, a good example would be Halo, Doom has a guy in a green armoured suit with a mask and Halo has, oh, forget that comparison. Here's a good one, Halflife has headcrab zombies and Halo has the floo....ack, dammit. Ah, I got it, Halife has a Hivehand Gun and Halo has cool Needl...actually you know what? Forget it, your right. All the things you listed there were innovative, let's forget duke nukem had a melee kick or that you only had limited weapons and could throw grenades in rainbow 6 and be thank-full for the annoying shield-recharge. Mods and level editors didn't exist either.

I know right. They should be more creative, like Sony. Killzone 2 is looking to be very creative and different in a futuristic FPS category that few have tried before. It's a big risk because others that have tried it have been very bad (except UT3, which you probably know very well). Plus Halo 3 copied the whole FPS thing. If they were truly creative they would have ventured into the 4th person genre. Plus Halo had guns, just like Doom. That's why I have a PS3 (not a fanboy) and that's why Halo sucks.

Your fakeboy trolls are getting annoying especially since most people don't realize it and take you seriously.

Anyway, none of the games in the first post are innovative. Even portal itself was based on an old game concept that you could download for free. Innovation was easy in previous generations because nothing had been done before. When 3D first came around with Saturn, PS1, and N64, obviously we're going to have a myriad of innovative games because nearly anything you dowill be innovative. Now we see that most things have already been done, so developers simply improve on old formulas in the best way they can.

I find that very offensive that you would disrespect my opinion on this system wars thread.

Portal, even though based on an old formula, had many creative elements that made it innovative. Innovatove is not necessarily doing something new, it could mean doing the same thing in a new way.

Portal, Audiosurf, and STALKER, with Audiosurf being the best and most innovative of the three. I mean, you can ride your freakin music. That's awesome :obulletsword

Also Sins of a Solar Empire carries innovation. I also love how you're given ample time to build your empire.

[QUOTE="heydude4211"]

[QUOTE="Kez1984"]The pc had games like Bioshock when you were in diapers.110million

So in 1982? I distinctly remember games were in 2d back then. I hope you're talking about System Shock and Dues Ex. While I know what you're saying, they really didn't create a world like bioshock did.

System Shock 2 felt a lot more immersive and the "world" was more unique, pretty graphics don't automatically make Bioshock better.

yes it does. Good graphics help you into the world. Don't belive me, play a non nintendo produced wii title and say graphics dont matter

Controlling time? lol, that's been around in different forms throughout the history of gaming. Assassins Creed is so beautiful it's innovative I guess.

If you wanted to mention innovation, you should play Portal. That is the only truely innovative game this gen. Everything else is just last gen improved with prettierness.

Bioshock is terrible, and also, non traditional games no longer sell

In other words, gaming is on its way out unless 360 and PS3 sales increase