Is forza 2 a bumper car game with damage physics?

I was at my friends house, he was playing his favorite game Forza 2. WHich looks fun. but one thing i notice was, when he hit something or crash, he got the damage phyics, but it was like a bumper car. meaning you crash, and you just back up and go. or if you hit somone, you get damage, but it was bumper car game play.

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

Atleast it has damage...

Damage defaults to Limited. Come back when your friend becomes a man and starts using Simulation damage.

Edit: the damage default is limited, not cosmetic. But please, the instant I started it, I turned off everything but the line and ABS, and now I've got the line off. Again, take the training wheels off.

I was at my friends house, he was playing his favorite game Forza 2. WHich looks fun. but one thing i notice was, when he hit something or crash, he got the damage phyics, but it was like a bumper car. meaning you crash, and you just back up and go. or if you hit somone, you get damage, but it was bumper car game play.

robotech31

The damage actually effects how you and how the computer comtrol players drive. Speed and steering are huge factors when you get damaged. You haven't played the game obviously. When you crash it's not just your car that gets damaged, but the computer cars as well. Bumper car racing means you don't get any damage at all and car rubberband back onto the track. You are referring to GT3 & GT4. Both those games are bumper car racing games.

***********************************

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I was at my friends house, he was playing his favorite game Forza 2. WHich looks fun. but one thing i notice was, when he hit something or crash, he got the damage phyics, but it was like a bumper car. meaning youI crash, and you just back up and go. or if you hit somone, you get damage, but it was bumper car game play.

robotech31

Forza 2's physics aren't that special; however, your friend probably had it on cosmetic or limited. Put it on stimulation to get the best affect but you really can't "kill" your car. It'll just be screwed up where you can't go forward without going right.

[[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

blackace

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

[QUOTE="robotech31"]

I was at my friends house, he was playing his favorite game Forza 2. WHich looks fun. but one thing i notice was, when he hit something or crash, he got the damage phyics, but it was like a bumper car. meaning you crash, and you just back up and go. or if you hit somone, you get damage, but it was bumper car game play.

blackace

The damage actually effects how you and how the computer comtrol players drive. Speed and steering are huge factors when you get damaged. You haven't played the game obviously. When you crash it's not just your car that gets damaged, but the computer cars as well. Bumper car racing means you don't get any damage at all and car rubberband back onto the track. You are referring to GT3 & GT4. Both those games are bumper car racing games.

***********************************

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

**************************************

It was probably on cosmetic damage only, which means your car can get a few scratches and stuff.. but won't effect the performance. If you set it to simulation.. crashing will end any hope you have of winning a race. That said, even on simulation the damage is extremely unrealistic, crashing at 300KM/H should make the car undrivable, kill the driver and what not. But in Forza 2 the car will continue on at about 10KM/H.user_nat

True, but compared to the GT series where you can travel at 300mph and crash into 3 other cars and none of them get damage, and all of them rubber band back on the track and are able to go at 300mph again, I think Forza 2 is the more realistic of the two games.

[QUOTE="blackace"][[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

"The Real Driving Simulator"

and

"the most accurate physics yet seen in a racing simulator" - GT5P

[QUOTE="nicenator"][QUOTE="blackace"][[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

marklarmer

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

"The Real Driving Simulator"

Exactly. Why the hell do these peoplemake promisesthey cant live up to.

[QUOTE="user_nat"]It was probably on cosmetic damage only, which means your car can get a few scratches and stuff.. but won't effect the performance. If you set it to simulation.. crashing will end any hope you have of winning a race. That said, even on simulation the damage is extremely unrealistic, crashing at 300KM/H should make the car undrivable, kill the driver and what not. But in Forza 2 the car will continue on at about 10KM/H.blackace

True, but compared to the GT series where you can travel at 300mph and crash into 3 other cars and none of them get damage, and all of them rubber band back on the track and are able to go at 300mph again, I think Forza 2 is the more realistic of the two games.

Without a doubt.

Hopefully GT5 will change that, so we can see Forza 3 push it forward some more.

[QUOTE="blackace"][QUOTE="robotech31"]

I was at my friends house, he was playing his favorite game Forza 2. WHich looks fun. but one thing i notice was, when he hit something or crash, he got the damage phyics, but it was like a bumper car. meaning you crash, and you just back up and go. or if you hit somone, you get damage, but it was bumper car game play.

blackace

The damage actually effects how you and how the computer comtrol players drive. Speed and steering are huge factors when you get damaged. You haven't played the game obviously. When you crash it's not just your car that gets damaged, but the computer cars as well. Bumper car racing means you don't get any damage at all and car rubberband back onto the track. You are referring to GT3 & GT4. Both those games are bumper car racing games.

***********************************

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

**************************************

It was probably on cosmetic damage only, which means your car can get a few scratches and stuff.. but won't effect the performance. If you set it to simulation.. crashing will end any hope you have of winning a race. That said, even on simulation the damage is extremely unrealistic, crashing at 300KM/H should make the car undrivable, kill the driver and what not. But in Forza 2 the car will continue on at about 10KM/H.user_nat

True, but compared to the GT series where you can travel at 300mph and crash into 3 other cars and none of them get damage, and all of them rubber band back on the track and are able to go at 300mph again, I think Forza 2 is the more realistic of the two games.

Not really..

You do get dents in the hood, and the occasionaldetached bumper...

That's what I find hilarious about these Lemmings trying to slag off GT5..

*Lolz theyz gotz no damages*

Without a doubt.

Too bad it doesn't look realistic huh?

I think the physics in GT5 are a lot more real too =]

Thats + points on realism for GT5: Prologue with no damage.

Can't wait for GT5 with damage =]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"][QUOTE="blackace"][[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

"The Real Driving Simulator"

Exactly. Why the hell do these peoplemake promisesthey cant live up to.

But it is The Real Driving sim, and it has been for 10 years...

But it is The Real Driving sim, and it has been for 10 years...

the only argument you can actually conjure up is *OMg teh bumpers carz*.They've confirmed damage in GT5, just not on all 700+ vehicles..You have damage on 30 cars in Forza..GnR-SLaSh

30 cars? Are you sure your not talking about your GT5P that costs more money then Forza 2? (It costs more here in Australia anyhow). GT is in no way a more real driving sim then Forza, unless AI that drives along a line is real.

i dont like the damage effects. i didnt spend 4 hours on my paint job to have it get messed up 3 seconds into a racehustler_151

Perhaps you should learn how to drive. ^_^

[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

TerroRizing

Atleast it has damage...

*whip sound*

ouch sounds like somebody hit a raw nerve.

IMO if you are going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, because simulation damage in forza is like cosmetic in real life.

You know what I find hilarious?

"*Lolz theyz gotz no damages*"
"Can't wait for GT5 with damage =]"

That and your blind faith in the assumption that GT's damage will be überrealistic. Kazunori Yamauchi recently stated that at the point where it starts affecting the gameplay negatively, they'll cut back on the realism of the damage system. Who knows where that line will be drawn.

Because if it doesn't look fully realistic, damage is useless right?

[QUOTE="marklarmer"][QUOTE="nicenator"][QUOTE="blackace"][[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

"The Real Driving Simulator"

Exactly. Why the hell do these peoplemake promisesthey cant live up to.

No... A driving simulator simulates driving, damage is for the casuals. My reasoning is that damage is something that people want to avoid at all costs when driving, and it shouldn't be a feature of racing (so what if thats the only reason people watch that strange sport nascar for that very reason).

Just because I could break my leg in a fast rope decsent in real life, doesn't mean that R6: V would be better with the ability to break limbs and become incapacitated in the field over it.

It's a casual feature, and it is one of the only things Forza has on GT

He must have been playing on Cosmetic. That's the setting whereby damage is simply to look as it should, and has no effect on your car. If you put it up to limited, you will experience some negative effects of damage; poor suspension, tougher handling etc. If you put it up to simulation, it's like real life. Any collision will take you off the track unless very minor, and at high speeds your car will be in a bad way if you hit something. Any serious crashes total your car and take you out of the race entirely.Ninja-Vox

Now you are lying to everyone.

The Forza bashing is getting weak. If you have damage on simulation any tiny damage will affect your times. Damage your bumpers and aerodynamics will be affected resulting in slower times.

So the people who try to bash Forza because the damage isn't super realistic need to stop. In my opinion it is as realistic as it needs to be while still being very, very fun. So all the cows that bash Forza, have fun playing your $40 demo or waiting for GT5 to come out. Waiting... Waiting for a game that will probably be inferior to Forza in everyway except for graphics.

[QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

leejohnson7

Atleast it has damage...

*whip sound*

ouch sounds like somebody hit a raw nerve.

IMO if you are going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, because simulation damage in forza is like cosmetic in real life.

So you're saying a game is a better sim if it simulates less things well? I guess that makes sense. GT has AI opponents. It is a racing game. The AI races about as well as a basket of eggs. You can run into these opponents. The simulation of such a collision results in the cars just kinda bouncing off of each other. How the hell is that a better way of simulating collisions?

The simple fact that it has other cars on the track means that they need to simulate behavior associated with them as well. If you're going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, right?

[QUOTE="marklarmer"][QUOTE="nicenator"][QUOTE="blackace"][[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

"The Real Driving Simulator"

Exactly. Why the hell do these peoplemake promisesthey cant live up to.

like sony cares

You know what I find hilarious?

"*Lolz theyz gotz no damages*"
"Can't wait for GT5 with damage =]"

That and your blind faith in the assumption that GT's damage will be überrealistic. Kazunori Yamauchi recently stated that at the point where it starts affecting the gameplay negatively, they'll cut back on the realism of the damage system. Who knows where that line will be drawn.

Because if it doesn't look fully realistic, damage is useless right?

InsaneBasura

I have no blind faith, I do not care about damage in the game.. If I cared that much do you actually think I'd have been playing GT for 10 years?

No I can't wait for damage purely because it will shut up a LOT of people, whose only argument is:

*omgz teh bumperz*

[QUOTE="blackace"][[QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

nicenator

And I can see that you haven't played the game as well.

I have the box sitting right in front of me. I have played the game, and in all other aspects its fantastic. The damage, however, makes little more difference than imposing sanctions, which can be done just as easily with time penalties. In fact, ill even quote the back of the box here;

"bone-jarring damage".

Nope, sorry, not its not.

You must have not had damage on simulation, or if you did you are probably a really bad driver. When damage is on simulation your aerodynamics can easily be damaged resulting in slower lap times. I easily noticed this seeing how I loved Forza 2 and played it for many, many hours.

So saying that damage makes little difference could not be further from the truth. Maybe you sucked at the game and didn't notice it but the damage had a very significant affect on your cars performance.

[QUOTE="leejohnson7"][QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

InsaneBasura

Atleast it has damage...

*whip sound*

ouch sounds like somebody hit a raw nerve.

IMO if you are going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, because simulation damage in forza is like cosmetic in real life.

So you're saying a game is a better sim if it simulates less things well? I guess that makes sense. GT has AI opponents. It is a racing game. The AI races about as well as a basket of eggs. You can run into these opponents. The simulation of such a collision results in the cars just kinda bouncing off of each other. How the hell is that a better way of simulating collisions?

The simple fact that it has other cars on the track means that they need to simulate behavior associated with them as well. If you're going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, right?

I'm sorry to keep going on, but you can bump into cars on Forza with ease, and not suffer any damage whatsoever... In real life are you trying to say that when driving in your car and you nudge another car on its side its going to affect the performance of your car? I think you have to get some sort of serious MOT/check up on your ride if thats the case..

I'm sorry to keep going on, but you can bump into cars on Forza with ease, and not suffer any damage whatsoever... In real life are you trying to say that when driving in your car and you nudge another car on its side its going to affect the performance of your car? I think you have to get some sort of serious MOT/check up on your ride if thats the case..

No you can't. I hate these boards sometimes. No one must be reading my posts...

If damage is on simulation you can NOT "bump into cars on Forza with ease, and not suffer any damage whatsoever."

Have you played the game? Seriously have you?

No... A driving simulator simulates driving, damage is for the casuals. My reasoning is that damage is something that people want to avoid at all costs when driving, and it shouldn't be a feature of racing (so what if thats the only reason people watch that strange sport nascar for that very reason).

Just because I could break my leg in a fast rope decsent in real life, doesn't mean that R6: V would be better with the ability to break limbs and become incapacitated in the field over it.

It's a casual feature, and it is one of the only things Forza has on GT

leejohnson7

The cows really show how they are unable to concedeanything negative about Sony. They will go to the most unimaginably ridiculous lengths in attempts to refute any and all criticism pointed at their products.

No damage, no penalty for using another car as a bumper to get you around corners...yeah that's fine because the "physics" are so "real"...:?

Then they curse Forza for having "unrealistic" damage while praising GT for having damage with "some" cars.

KOO KOO

[QUOTE="leejohnson7"][QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

InsaneBasura

Atleast it has damage...

*whip sound*

ouch sounds like somebody hit a raw nerve.

IMO if you are going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, because simulation damage in forza is like cosmetic in real life.

So you're saying a game is a better sim if it simulates less things well? I guess that makes sense. GT has AI opponents. It is a racing game. The AI races about as well as a basket of eggs. You can run into these opponents. The simulation of such a collision results in the cars just kinda bouncing off of each other. How the hell is that a better way of simulating collisions?

The simple fact that it has other cars on the track means that they need to simulate behavior associated with them as well. If you're going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, right?

From what I noticed GTs ai is slightly more numb in terms of responsiveness, but it reacts realistically. An example is they will stay in a line unless going faster than the car in front. Do people seriously think that AI in gt is unable to manouver? Try playing it. I actually found out that in GT, if you knock cones into the road the ai will attempt to avoid it by turning early. In forza, the AI doesn't give a **** and drives through them.

AI in GT never gets stuck. In forza, twice I have noticed a car that got rammed into the inner corner on the first stretch in new york (because they are pointy corners, and it's basically a drag race). Both occasions the driver simply reversed and accelerated repeatedly, without going anywhere. This was something I recall seeing in GTA3 frequently, but I thought the years of AI programming and research for forza would yield somewhat realistic results. I was wrong.

No I am saying a game is a better sim if it simulates everything it does already, perfectly.

You are saying a game is a better sim if it simulates many things, averagely.

Forza is a jack of all trades, and an expert of none.

That is my arguement

The cows really show how they are unable to concedeanything negative about Sony. They will go to the most unimaginably ridiculous lengths in attempts to refute any and all criticism pointed at their products.

No damage, no penalty for using another car as a bumper to get you around corners...yeah that's fine because the "physics" are so "real"...:?

Then they curse Forza for having "unrealistic" damage while praising GT for having damage with "some" cars.

KOO KOO

JiveT

No... A driving simulator simulates driving, damage is for the casuals. My reasoning is that damage is something that people want to avoid at all costs when driving, and it shouldn't be a feature of racing (so what if thats the only reason people watch that strange sport nascar for that very reason).

Just because I could break my leg in a fast rope decsent in real life, doesn't mean that R6: V would be better with the ability to break limbs and become incapacitated in the field over it.

It's a casual feature, and it is one of the only things Forza has on GT

leejohnson7

:roll:

If it's a driving simulator, then why are there other cars on the track? Hell, why are you on a track? Point to point would make more sense for a driving simulator. They could try to recreate the piece of road they found in Top Gear.

Tha flaw with your Rainbow Six example is that Rainbow Six does not attempt to be a simulator. Spraining your ankle or whatever would just be an annoyance while damage in a racing sim actually aids the gameplay.

Oh, and my reasoning is that you're bonkers and don't get why racing sims need damage at all.

In GT4, ramming the side of an opponent in the entry of a corner doesn't hurt you, in fact it might actually help improve your laptime. There's a reason why real race car drivers don't employ this tactic. In fact they try their hardest to prevent contact. Why is this you think? Because they could die? Obviously you won't ever get physically injured if you crash a car in a game. But the keyword here is the single biggest difference between GT and Forza - consequences, and there are other forms of those than sustaining injuries and death.

So apart from the dying part it's because they risk losing positions, getting penalties, losing the race, damaging their car, losing control of it, spinning off the track, getting hit by the cars behind you... These are consequences you can simulate in a racing game. Forza 2 does. Makes races so much more tense when you need to be aware of your opponents. It has a major impact on how you play the game and is part of what makes Forza differ so much from GT. Hopefully that will change. But Kaz has his stupid squeaky clean car collector-museum-"driving simulator" vision.

[QUOTE="leejohnson7"][QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="nicenator"]

The lemmings will crucify you for this thread, but IMO you are corrrect. Forza 2's damage is nothing special, and i dont get why its made out to be such a massive leap forward in racing games.

leejohnson7

Atleast it has damage...

*whip sound*

ouch sounds like somebody hit a raw nerve.

IMO if you are going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, because simulation damage in forza is like cosmetic in real life.

So you're saying a game is a better sim if it simulates less things well? I guess that makes sense. GT has AI opponents. It is a racing game. The AI races about as well as a basket of eggs. You can run into these opponents. The simulation of such a collision results in the cars just kinda bouncing off of each other. How the hell is that a better way of simulating collisions?

The simple fact that it has other cars on the track means that they need to simulate behavior associated with them as well. If you're going to simulate an aspect, you must do it properly, right?

From what I noticed GTs ai is slightly more numb in terms of responsiveness, but it reacts realistically. An example is they will stay in a line unless going faster than the car in front. Do people seriously think that AI in gt is unable to manouver? Try playing it. I actually found out that in GT, if you knock cones into the road the ai will attempt to avoid it by turning early. In forza, the AI doesn't give a **** and drives through them.

AI in GT never gets stuck. In forza, twice I have noticed a car that got rammed into the inner corner on the first stretch in new york (because they are pointy corners, and it's basically a drag race). Both occasions the driver simply reversed and accelerated repeatedly, without going anywhere. This was something I recall seeing in GTA3 frequently, but I thought the years of AI programming and research for forza would yield somewhat realistic results. I was wrong.

No I am saying a game is a better sim if it simulates everything it does already, perfectly.

You are saying a game is a better sim if it simulates many things, averagely.

Forza is a jack of all trades, and an expert of none.

That is my arguement

Its so true..

ARGH these GT5 threads are getting on my nerves..

Thing is Im almost sure that the lemmings know that GT5 is the better game its just not on their console..

Its sad because I know that the majority of *best titles* are on the 360 right now.. I just think its sad that as soon as PS3 actually does get the better game, they all start making just stupid claims...

Forza Series is bad compared to the GT Series. Its funny how lemmings think unrealistic crashes and then no consequence of the crash (meaning you can just keep going ) are fun and more realistic.ZeroPunctuation

Something I've noticed is how a lot of you guys are talking about how easy it is for you to shunt the AI off the track without suffering damage.. Well GT is a simulator, its aimed at a more mature audience, i.e, you cant take hairpins at 180mph a la NFS etc..

You're all saying how bad a sim it is, and how easy it is to knock your opponents off the track. Well a sim is not made for that, you're meant to drive and respect the rules, I find it ironic that a lot of you guys are slating it becuase its "unrealistic" because you cant total yourself doing stupid manoevers, if you really want that, try burnout or NFS.

GT's for racing and racing seriously, thats why I think its a much more mature, life like sim, because you never find yourself in a multiplayer game driving at your friend on a straight at 150 mph to see how much you can dent the hood, or make yourself slower and less streamlined that you usualy would be..

Thats not what sims are for, they don't put the focus on that when they program the games because they think the consumer wants to race.. Games like burnout are out there so people who do enjoy the crashing aspect more than the driving can go by that, and stop complaining about top class sims like GT..

Something I've noticed is how a lot of you guys are talking about how easy it is for you to shunt the AI off the track without suffering damage.. Well GT is a simulator, its aimed at a more mature audience, i.e, you cant take hairpins at 180mph a la NFS etc..

You're all saying how bad a sim it is, and how easy it is to knock your opponents off the track. Well a sim is not made for that, you're meant to drive and respect the rules, I find it ironic that a lot of you guys are slating it becuase its "unrealistic" because you cant total yourself doing stupid manoevers, if you really want that, try burnout or NFS.

GT's for racing and racing seriously, thats why I think its a much more mature, life like sim, because you never find yourself in a multiplayer game driving at your friend on a straight at 150 mph to see how much you can dent the hood, or make yourself slower and less streamlined that you usualy would be..

Thats not what sims are for, they don't put the focus on that when they program the games because they think the consumer wants to race.. Games like burnout are out there so people who do enjoy the crashing aspect more than the driving can go by that, and stop complaining about top class sims like GT..

GnR-SLaSh

Dude you're going in cirlces here and you're not proving a damn thing... GT5 visuals kick the sh1t out of Forza IMHO, but the physics are a few laps behind. You can't justify not having damage effect your driving. I've played the crap out of some GT and it does have bumper physics after playing forza. It's not that the game is "bad"... it's just that its not a "simulator" like the devs say it is.