Is Naughty Dog the best 1st party developer?

I would say so, until Sony decides to buy out Kojima Productions. Naughty Dog just makes amazing games that don't disappoint. Amazing graphics AND gameplay with truly touching stories and memorable characters. I can't think of any first party developer that is on par and has successfully been able to keep up with the times as well as Naughty Dog. What are your thoughts on this, SW? Who is the best 1st party developer?

Still Nintendo EAD

What competition do they have? No other first party studio consistently puts out 90+ rated games that scoop up GOTY awards like they do. The only other studios in the entire industry on the same level are Rockstar, CD Projekt Red, Kojima Productions, maybe Blizzard.

Nope, Nintendo EAD is still the best. I like Naughty Dog, but they, nor anybody else, is in the same league as Nintendo EAD.

Yeah, pretty easily. Such a killer track record.

Yes, they are the only 1st party that consistently releases 90+ MC GOTY worthy exclusives. It doesn't get more top-tier than that.

I mean, you're both actually factually wrong, because Nintendo EAD do that

For you they are but not for everyone. :)

No

And I'm pretty sure you the same thread hundreds of times.

your pokemon username prove that your point is bias

Ok

@charizard1605: lolNintendolol

Hard choice, but the Cow in says YES!

starting to notice a trend in some of these threads....

Nintendo EPD (EAD no longer exists) is probably the best, but they have over twice as many employees as Naughty Dog. Naughty Dog is the best at the type of games they make though, by a very large margin.

Why is there a comparison between Nintendo EAD and ND? They make completely different types of games. I will say that I believe ND to be the most technically competent developer in the industry today, and their polish stands proud against Nintendo. The amount of polish, the attention to detail, the smoothness of the mechanics and how they interplay off one another. It's all seamless.

Nintendo makes toys. ND creates experiences, and that's their distinction. It's a matter of preference, but one I side with ND on as I've been playing the same Nintendo games, in some form or another, for 30 years. I doubt Nintendo could even do something like ND does.

They're up there, that's for sure.

Even Sony's own Polyphony has put out less turds than Naughty Dog.

Funny you say Nintendo makes toys and ND creates experiences. I am not a big fan of Nintendo but even for me that statement is rather bullshit friendly. When it comes to gaming catalog Nintendo's resume is ridiculous. It does not equate to games being superior but its a bit far reaching to say that they make toys when they are renown for their games.

In a topic about best 1st party devs, Nintendo has to be mentioned. If the topic were narrowed to something like best 1st party technical graphics, or best 1st party story driven games, I could see Nintendo being left out of course.

Personally, I would give it to EAD by a long shot. There is an unfair list of quality games to pull from in this comparison. And even if we went by "herp derp objective" SW wars measures, sales, scores, and overall volume would stack in their favor as well.

Absolutely, all there is to it really.

And though Nintendo has lost that wow factor in recent years, I still prefer their top games over what ND has to offer (no I haven't played Uncharted 4 yet).

Nintendo games being "toys" I suppose is just a way of saying they make very gamey games. Everything hinges on mechanics and level design, not so much on delivering an experience. Personally, I prefer the former these days. There was a time when story and presentation held a lot of clout with me, but I do tend to gravitate towards the more gamey stuff now.

Nintendo EAD hasn't made a great game in three years, and then three years before that. If only for hits alone I'd say yes since EAD releases an incredible amount of turds but overall EAD wins it.

@SolidGame_basic: For now ...by far imo. If , i repeat , if their next NEW IP ends up being AAA status and multiawarded once again then we are talking about a god tier developer.

Because imho thats where god tier developers based on ... how good they doing with NEW IPs and their sequels and not playing safe all the time ... and we are not talking about any NEW IP but AAA caliber ones.

No. Nintendo EAD's is more consistent in terms of how good there games are and there high's are higher than Naughty Dog's highs. Naughty dog has been on a streak lately with producing highly praised games, but they are not the best first party developer.

Used to be Nintendo but now yeah pretty much Noughty Dog is the best, Nintendo been going townhill last generations

I'd take a Naughty Dog game over anything made by Nintendo.

My vote would go to Naughty Dog. I'm not really digging much from Nintendo First Party as of late.

Naughty Dog is the best developer for console gaming period.

Def up there with the top dogs. Very talented developer

No.

What Nintendo games can you bring forth in repudiation?

Nintendo in every conceivable way.

@lawlessx: "starting to notice a trend in some of these threads...."

Please share.

Nintendo has to be mentioned, sure, but if we're speaking on collective accomplishments in quality relative to the period in which they've existed, I'd have to give the nod to ND above Nintendo. Especially considering the latter's performance as of late....Mario Amiibo Festival, Mario Tennis, Federation Force (yes, I know it's not out yet, it doesn't have to be), low budget Star Fox. These are not Nintendo nearly at their best. They are cheap, lazy attempts, and they have diminished Nintendo's reputation in my eyes. If Nintendo deems these type of garbage efforts to be acceptable towards their legacy, then I deem them suitable towards the judgement of that legacy.

Of course the scales would come out in Nintendo's favor as they are literally the only developer supporting an entire platform so the numbers weigh heavily in their favor and have had years to do so, but all things being equal....Nintendo has had their fair share of stinkers of late (in fact, I'd say the SMG games are the last I've seen of them that give out that "Holy shit" factor Nintendo has been so heralded for). But that was years ago. ND has put out consistent quality title after title. So by what standard are we measuring by here, because by Nintendo's latest performance, I think they have (and are being) outclassed, even taking into account preference.

As for preference,

I'm the opposite.....I need reason to game. Nintendo games are wonderful eye/hand coordination tests. They are master craftsmen in that respect. But I need more, and if we're to speak on any objective metric, it would seem the poor sales of Nintendo's systems speak indicative to people wanting more than what they are offering, and have been offering (with slight mechanical tweaks) for years now. Yes, they are gamey, and they are utterly pointless past their credits. They give me no greater themes to ponder over, no meaning. I need something more, whereas in the past I didn't. I suppose a good analogy would be toy figures: Nintendo allows me to play and manipulate the limbs of a toy figure I buy. Or I can buy a Sideshow collectible polystone figure and appreciate it (not to imply ND's games hold no gameplay). To me, while the former grants me more immediate interaction, the latter is ultimately much more fulfilling.

And this is maturing, something Nintendo has failed to address with their games. They are so stuck in a dogmatic philosophy of game design antiquity that their talent is pigeonholed and their software is restricted. A frustrating thing to witness....

But you said:

I'm going with Bloodborne. I like games that leave things up to interpretation and also don't feed you with cut scene after cut scene. I've ready a few theories about Bloodborne's plot and they all amazing. The story of the hunter is one of my favorites. What about you, SW? What is your favorite story of 2015?

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/what-game-has-the-best-story-of-2015-32252590/?messageId=343599693#js-message-7

Guess that was only because the game that was beating out a PS4 exclusive was the Witcher 3, huh? LOL own your shit guy.

I mean, Naught Dog does focus more on the cinematic/story stuff more than NIntendo does, generally. Just because Nintendo games might not always have a strong focus on story though doesn't mean that they still can't be an "experience." Zelda games are definitely an experience and have plenty of strong moments. Even Mario Platformers can feel like an experience whether it be great soundtracks, certain boss battles, certain levels, and in Galaxy 1's case, the backstory they gave Rosalina, while maybe simple, was still pretty nice I thought.

Not even close. I've never fallen through the floor in a mario game or been unable to open a door. ND doesn't emphasize locked framerates, forget 60fps. I could go on really, i've never ran into a bug in a mario game.

Also that toy line, you sound like a teen tryhard acting mature, they're all toys. Majora's mask is a hundred times the experience over what ND has done. And I like Uncharted.

I'm not going to argue though that Nintendo hasn't slipped hard over the years.

@MirkoS77:

I think we're on the same page with most of that, same stuff we've discussed before. Nintendo has been lacking the "Wow" factor for a while. They do still make good games, maybe the occasional great game, but it's been a while since they've made a game that makes most other devs look like amateurs by comparison. Which is something they've managed to do every single gen up until this one.

And it's true, they are diluting those good efforts with a slew of mediocre titles, no arguments here. Nintendo is certainly not without flaws lol.

But at the same time, I just don't look to ND's efforts as being consistently stellar either. Uncharted 2 was a good game, but not something I'd take over Nintendos best efforts at the time. Uncharted 1 and 3 were both pretty average imo. TLOU was legitimately a great game and from what I'm hearing, Uncharted 4 is right up there with their best work. Even if so, that's one really good game and two great games. It shows a level of consistency and if they keep it up they'll be untouchable, but for now it's just a good run. It's no different than when Bungie blew up with the Halo games.

And yeah, on the preference we're just polar opposites right now lol. My reason to game is purely the gameplay these days. That's what I find fulfilling above all else, that's what pushes me forward. Everything else is just peripheral to me. Nice to have, but not too important.

They are definitely up there, they do damn good work for sure. For me it is Nintendo EAD, Monolith Soft then Naughty Dog.

Nintendo because I don't care to own their console, just need something to shut Cows up

It's Nintendo, but I've been enjoying Naughty Dogs' games a lot more in recent years. But Nintendo just has too good of a track record.

To what technical flaws are you referring? Yes, ND's polish does stand very close to Nintendo's. Is it perfect? No, but it is close, and to say "not even close" is hyperbole. I've never fallen through a floor in a ND game personally, but perhaps that's due to not having played enough. As for framerates, have you played Uncharted 4 yet? It's one of the smoothest games I've seen at 30. When Nintendo can pull of such graphical fidelity at that rate throughout, you let me know. I don't think ND would be hard pressed to achieve a constant 60 fps when placed in context of Nintendo's level of chosen fidelity and simplistic game concepts.

But really, a "teen tryhard"? Please Chozo, I'd expect better from you. I am speaking to nothing more than what Nintendo themselves have expressed, Miyamoto specifically. If not explicitly stated, then implicitly demonstrated in their products. Despite this sentiment many love to tow for Nintendo, no, games have much more potential than being just relegated to the realm of toys (ND has demonstrated this....most notably with TLoU), and I'm sick and tired of their diehards believing this medium amounts to nothing more than what the myopic and stubborn views of a once legendary developer mired in past glory unwilling (or unable) to see where this industry is heading dictates, nor embraces. Screw Nintendo and their strict views on what constitutes gaming, and I for one am glad they are being hammered, not for the types of games they are making, but for the ones they are not. I believe this is a main reason for why they are growing more and more niche.

I'm all for adherence to values and heritage, but I also admire appreciation to where respective mediums show strength and growth towards. Nintendo has adamantly refused to acknowledge this, and I'm frankly sick of it. Games are capable of being more than toys, and anyone who doesn't believe so is an idiot who cannot see two inches past their nose. Nintendo is being left behind. You would hear no complaints from me whatsoever if they were much more open minded and experimental to the types of games ND produces, but they're not. They don't even try, and for a publisher supporting an entire ecosystem, that's a huge flaw.

Yes they are. Naughty Dog is up there among top-tier developers (Blizzard, CD Projekt, Valve etc) in the industry today.

Are you serious? I am not the kind of person to be defending Nintendo's catalog of games but you are seriously questioning Nintendo's gaming history?

@MirkoS77: Yeah, that's what it sounds like when you call Nintendo games toys. Which, I don't care to disagree with, I think they are toys and there's nothing wrong with that. And adults are just older children.

My problem lies with calling a specific type of game a toy, which is just high horse posturing. Either they're all toys or they're not.

Oh and yeah, Uncharted 2 plays quite nicely and smooth, and that looks to be the case of Uncharted 4 as well. It's just, whatever reasoning you want to give, the fact is they're not locked framerates and the games are half as smooth as they could be. Bayonetta 2 is a much better game than 3D world, though it has frame dips so i'm not saying this is the be all end all, but when we speak of polish, frame rate is a part of that.

And i'll also say this, i've no problem with the Uncharted games, or even something like Beyond 2 souls. By all means, let the medium expand, there's room for all types of games.

High praise for ND craft, but Nintendo EAD are legendary and they have invented the types of games they make.

Yeah, probably.

Firstly, I'm not using the term "toy" with a negative connotation. I'm using toy in the sense of describing something that is trifling, that is enjoyable while you engage with it, but once done, is forgotten. Whereas an experience tends to leave a lasting impact even after it's done with. Could the former not be attributed to the types of games Nintendo makes as opposed to ND? That of course subjective, but for me, the latter leaves a much greater impression due to its narrative and presentation.

Calling something a toy isn't taking a posture of condescension or belittlement. I still love toys, but that's what they are.....toys.

As for comparing the technical prowess of Nintendo to games such as Naughty Dog makes, I think it's a false equivalence. Nintendo doesn't push boundaries with their games. Their formulas are usually far established from years ago and they've had that time to perfect them, and they are not working with cutting edge technology or pushing any boundaries with their releases. Naughty Dog is. Do you think that Naughty Dog would really be pressed to accomplish Mario Kart 8, or Super Mario 3D World at a solid 60fps? I don't think they'd have any trouble at all. However, do I think Nintendo could do something so technically accomplished as Uncharted 4 at a 90-95% steady 30fps? I'm doubtful. It's unfair to look at a game like Uncharted 4 and point out its flaws against games that Nintendo makes (and has been making) for years now when they not developed by the same standards.

@Pedro: talking about experiences. What games has Nintendo made that would fall into that category? The only ones that come to mind are Super Metroid and Eternal Darkness.

Thats pure delusion... ND is at the top without question. Nintendo EAD may compete but to say there not in the same league? LMAO that's just pure fanboy talk.

For me yes Naughty Dog is the best.. I have tremendous respect Nintendo's software output, but they don't make games I want to play.

I'm a big fan of Naughty Dog's games, but it is ridiculous to say that they are better than Nintendo. Naughty Dog is a great, top tier, developer, but Nintendo is legendary.

Nintendo has more games that are ranked among the greatest games of all time than Naughty Dog has games period, Nintendo's game catalog has far more gameplay variety in it than Naughty Dog's catalog, Nintendo has created some of the most iconic music in video game history that Naughty Dog can't come close to competing with, and Nintendo has created many of the most iconic video game characters. Let me know when Naughty Dog invents a character that becomes more well known than Mickey Mouse.

Plus, Nintendo has either revolutionized or completely invented many of the video game genres that we enjoy today whereas many of Naughty Dog's games are ripoffs of Nintendo games and Naughty Dog developers have even admitted to this (i.e., Crash Bandicoot is a Donkey Kong Country ripoff, Crash Team Racing is a Mario Kart ripoff, Jak and Daxter is a Super Mario 64 ripoff).