Is piracy a facad?

Starcraft II is about to be released on the PC. Blizzard makes a ton of money selling how many copies on a PC where it's very easy to pirate games if you want to.

I know piracy is real. My question is I think these huge businesses use it as a crutch to release crap because you can't return it. Once you buy it it's yours. I know easy to say research it first. But so many reviews are paid off these days. Games get hyped up, what people and fanboys say isn't always a legitament source. Take EA for example. This company has been releasing crap for years. It gets hyped. Madden gets 9 for reviews. All the fanboys cheer it. It's the same broken game that has been released for years. But I can't return it because of copyright laws and they blame piracy and I'm suffering because of that.

When they sell over how many million copies? Is piracy really the issue they make it out to be?

My feeling is I'm an honest consumer. I should be able to return a game if it doesn't work as advertised.

I know easy to say research it first. But so many reviews are paid off these days. piercetruth34

my feeling is if people were allowed to return software these developers would get their crap together. blizzard was a very good developer for a long time on the PC because they had to be.

Now these companies have basically licensed everything and gobbled everything up where they can do whatever they please.

I listen to these developers talk out of the side of their mouths how they are going to do this and that and nothing we can do. But my feeling is as a consumer I wish people would speak up.

pretty soon we aren't even going to be able to rent games. They are really greedy. They use this stuff as a crutch like we are pirates and doing things I'm not when they are liars and not responsible themselves.

My feeling is I'm an honest consumer. I should be able to return a game if it doesn't work as advertised.

piercetruth34

That is purely a matter of opinion and based on opinion you shouldn't be able to return a perfectly good game for a full cash refund even though the game is what it says to be it's just that the consumer can't see that. Also what if the game's RRP is $50 but you buy it for $30, then how much should the company's refund be? If all companies had a return policy like that then they would also have to sell the games they make as well and charge only one price, so you'll be paying more for games. Seriously if you spend $10, $20 or even $60 on a crap game get over it and just sell it on ebay or something, or better yet buy it from EB (7 day return) all I know is that a return policy for companies is too impractical. Because, who's opinion is going to be used to judge quality? Some pople hated FF13 some loved it, so who's opinion on whether the product is good or not should be used here?

my feeling is if people were allowed to return software these developers would get their crap together. blizzard was a very good developer for a long time on the PC because they had to be.

Now these companies have basically licensed everything and gobbled everything up where they can do whatever they please.

piercetruth34

It's definitely real, but there's really nothing to be done about people who won't ever pay for your product. They're utterly useless to the developer (sure, they'll claim "we're introducing your game to potential customers", but what's to stop them from just handing over a DVD-R to their friends?), so why waste time trying to get them to buy a legitimate copy?

To be honest, they'd be better off taking all the money they spend on DRM and invest it in developing DLC instead. Sure, deadbeats will pirate that too, but at least they'd get some more money out of your paying customers.

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

piercetruth34

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

lowe0

Have you ever played EA sports games though? They pretty much have the market on sports games. If you want a sports video game you most likely are going to buy EA Sports. Because you have no choice. Their games freeze. NCAA BAsketball freezes quite often. I can't return it. The Show this year was advertised to have improved online play. It's still a laggy mess. I bought it for online play. IT's virtually unplayable online.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

piercetruth34

Have you ever played EA sports games though? They pretty much have the market on sports games. If you want a sports video game you most likely are going to buy EA Sports. Because you have no choice. Their games freeze. NCAA BAsketball freezes quite often. I can't return it. The Show this year was advertised to have improved online play. It's still a laggy mess. I bought it for online play. IT's virtually unplayable online.

If you want to return the game, keep the receipt and the box and stuff. 99% of stores let you return within the first week or first few days. Not a ridiculous concept. Where do you live where you can't return games?

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

piercetruth34

Have you ever played EA sports games though? They pretty much have the market on sports games. If you want a sports video game you most likely are going to buy EA Sports. Because you have no choice. Their games freeze. NCAA BAsketball freezes quite often. I can't return it. The Show this year was advertised to have improved online play. It's still a laggy mess. I bought it for online play. IT's virtually unplayable online.

But so many reviews are paid off these days.

Huh?


Take EA for example. This company has been releasing crap for years. It gets hyped. Madden gets 9 for reviews. All the fanboys cheer it. It's the same broken game that has been released for years.

Since when does Madden get 9's? I think my bost accounts, EA releases a lot of mostly-good games like BF:BC, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, etc. Their review scores aren't even high enough to think that they're inflated. And apparently you're the only one that thinks Madden is a "broken game", since everyone esle seems to enjoy it.


But I can't return it because of copyright laws and they blame piracy and I'm suffering because of that.

You not being able tor return console games doesn't have anything to do with piracy or copyright laws.

When they sell over how many million copies? Is piracy really the issue they make it out to be?

lol, so because they sell a lot of copies they shouldn't care about millions of people freely downloading their games?

I should be able to return a game if it doesn't work as advertised.

I don't think I disagree with that, but I'm not sure where you're going with the rest of your points.

If you want to return the game, keep the receipt and the box and stuff. 99% of stores let you return within the first week or first few days. Not a ridiculous concept. Where do you live where you can't return games?

Vaasman

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

If you want to return the game, keep the receipt and the box and stuff. 99% of stores let you return within the first week or first few days. Not a ridiculous concept. Where do you live where you can't return games?

genaroll

But so many reviews are paid off these days.piercetruth34

If you buy it, you buy it. I dont believe in buying and returning just because you didn't like. Because then some people that even liked the game will play it, beat it, and return it. That would be the dumbest return policy ever. That's really not fair to the business. Research is plenty enough to learn about the game before you buy. Every single game that I threw down $60 retail for were all games that I enjoyed. People just need to get smarter and stop feeding developers who make crappy games. Basically, some people are just too naive and dumb to care about what they buy. Consumers need to get that in their heads and get it together and stop blaming developers and publishers. As for piracy.

Starcraft 2 will probably get hit with at least half a million pirated copies.. no doubt.

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"] But so many reviews are paid off these days.Cherokee_Jack

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

my feeling is if people were allowed to return software these developers would get their crap together. blizzard was a very good developer for a long time on the PC because they had to be.

Now these companies have basically licensed everything and gobbled everything up where they can do whatever they please.

Birdy09

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"][QUOTE="piercetruth34"] But so many reviews are paid off these days.Elian2530

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"][QUOTE="piercetruth34"] But so many reviews are paid off these days.Elian2530

To each their own. But my point is game companies thinking everyone is pirating their games. Isn't that wild and imaginative? I think you are missing my point. It goes both ways. We can't return games because game companies think everyone is pirating. Did you read the topic title?

The excuse they use are copyright laws and that you can copy their game and return it. Isn't that a conspiracy in itself? I know way over your head.

You post thinking everyone is being wild and imaginative, when I'm just an honest consumer here, speaks volumes. I'm not being wild and imaginative at all. You are. That's the problem.

[QUOTE="Elian2530"][QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"] When did everyone decide to believe in this?piercetruth34

To each their own. But my point is game companies thinking everyone is pirating their games. Isn't that wild and imaginative? I think you are missing my point. It goes both ways. We can't return games because game companies think everyone is pirating. Did you read the topic title?

The excuse they use are copyright laws and that you can copy their game and return it. Isn't that a conspiracy in itself? I know way over your head.

You post thinking everyone is being wild and imaginative, when I'm just an honest consumer here, speaks volumes. I'm not being wild and imaginative at all. You are. That's the problem.

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

[QUOTE="Elian2530"] Some people read too much into things and they make up wild and imaginative excuses for things that they thing aren't accounted for. I for one, do not believe reviewers are being paid off. A lot of the games that have come out in the past 5 years have been pretty dead on. Sure, there are slight and marginal differences in opinions, but those are just opinions at the end of the day. Nothing more. Some people feel the need to make things out as conspiracies. Which in this case, isn't true.Vinegar_Strokes

To each their own. But my point is game companies thinking everyone is pirating their games. Isn't that wild and imaginative? I think you are missing my point. It goes both ways. We can't return games because game companies think everyone is pirating. Did you read the topic title?

The excuse they use are copyright laws and that you can copy their game and return it. Isn't that a conspiracy in itself? I know way over your head.

You post thinking everyone is being wild and imaginative, when I'm just an honest consumer here, speaks volumes. I'm not being wild and imaginative at all. You are. That's the problem.

Maybe he reads way too much into things and think people are being wild and imaginative instead of realizing they actually have a point? I know crazy concept that there is actually intelligent life out there that just has a difference of opinion.

We can't return games because game companies think everyone is pirating.

piercetruth34

Reviews being payed off? Waaaaaaat.

piracy is an excuse for devs to bring in drm which kills the used game market. Don't be surprised when the next consoles kill the used game market. The pc used game market is now pretty much dead, soon the console market will have the same fate and gamestop will be fuming. imprezawrx500

Piracy is bad and is rampant, but I honestly believe it is blown out of proportion in certain ways. So often do I hear people say "developers and publishers are afraid of piracy and is abandoning PC for the console market" in a doomsday fashion, but the only trend I have seen occur is developers going multiplatform. My two questions are, if piracy is so bad on PC that developers will not see money anymore, why do developers and publishers continue to release games on PC and why have they not left the PC market yet?

I usually look at all the developers or publishers and their current relationship with the PC market. I cannot mention developers that have remained only on consoles (Naughty Dog, Imsoniac, Guerilla Games, etc.) because that could not count as "leaving" PC. My main focus right now is on developers and publishers that have released games on PC before.

• Capcom - Last gen, their ports to PC (Resident Evil 4 and Devil May Cry 3) were not all that spectacular, but this gen, I have noticed their PC releases being stronger than their console counterparts. Devil May Cry 4 received the "Legendary Dark Knight" difficulty which spawned an unholy amount of enemies on the screen at once and Resident Evil 5 receives the "No Mercy" mercenaries mode which also spawns an unholy amount of enemies on the screen at once while both look better and run better. You can argue that they "don't care" about PC considering their re-releases of Street Fighter (Super Street Fighter IV) and Resident Evil 5 (Gold Edition) are only found on consoles, but someone could make another argument about how they are getting ripped off at the same time. One can also bring up the article about Devil May Cry 4 being "pirated to hell," but yet they are going to release Lost Planet 2 and Dead Rising 2 on PC later this year. They even support 3D through Resident Evil 5.

• Ubisoft - It should be obvious that Ubisoft does not like piracy considering their draconian DRM they have placed on their recent games (Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Assassin's Creed 2). It is unpleasant and not favored by many people. My question here is if Ubisoft suffers from piracy, why do they not leave PC altogether? Leaving the PC market would have been much easier than developing an Internet connection based DRM, so why did they choose the latter? Aside from a few minor bugs and the obtrusive DRM, both games are said to run smoothly for their specific platform. Assassin's Creed 2 was said to have been cracked already, but Ubisoft is going to release Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood on PC as well.

• Epic - This was the company that flat out said that "the money are on consoles" after a failed attempt with PC gamers paying for GFWL (with Gears of War on PC being one of the first few GFWL games) and the poorly appraised Unreal Tournament 3 which may have led to poor sales. Other than Gears of War 2 and 3 being 360 exclusives, I am not sure how Epic left PC, considering that they are developing Bulletstorm for PC and PS3. If I recall correctly, they released the Unreal Development Kit for PC not too long ago.

• Bioware - Time and time again, this company has supported PC for many of their games this gen. Mass Effect was once a 360 exclusive, but the series is now a multiplatform game on PC and 360. They even stated that "PC is the ideal gaming system to play on and to develop on." They are also developing the highly anticipated Star Wars: The Old Republic for PC. Bioware is probably one of the more pro-PC developers aside from Blizzard and Valve.

• Activision - I know that there are many people with a strong dislike for them this gen, but honestly, I cannot recall them hating PC for any reason, and I do not mean through Blizzard or World of Warcraft. Yes, we are all aware of Infinity Ward's port of Modern Warfare 2 to PC (but look at what happened to IW, haters rejoice?), but it did not run any different than the console counterparts aside from a few negatives about it. If anything, several of their games have released at cheaper prices than their console counterparts (Transformers: War for Cybertron and Blur being $60 on 360 and PS3 while both are $40 on PC as seen through Steam). Despite MW2 being the most pirated title of 2009, they are still going to release the next Call of Duty on PC as well. It could be because MW2 and its map packs are still the top sellers on PC since its November release date.

• Bungie - I really cannot say much about them. Yes, they had Halo 1 and 2 on PC, but the rest after that is only on 360. Many people do say it is because of Microsoft's "influence", but that is just a possibility. I do not recall Bungie being mad or disliking PC, so the previous statement about Microsoft's influence may be true. Since Bungie and Activision have partnered up (for a 10 year partnership I believe) it may be possible that Bungie may develop for PC and possibly the PS3 as well since Microsoft only owns the rights to Halo.

• Valve - No Comment.

• Crytek - I do not know what to say about them. I. Do. Not. Know. First, they're loving PC, but then their hating it and despising it, and then they're loving it again, and then they're being full of themselves and so on. It's confusing. Crytek said that piracy truly hurt them. I hear others say that they are being babies about it considering they sold 3 million+ copies of Crysis. (I do not know the actual sales figures). They may be the one developer that is being used as an example of developers leaving PC for the console market. Despite Crysis 2 being on PC and going multiplatform, it is being made to compensate with consoles. If something on PC works but it does not work on consoles, they take it out (this may be the biggest form of "consolization" today). Honestly, I do not what they are going to do after Crysis 2 besides the Kingdom game for 360, but they have not made it big news that they are leaving PC altogether.

There are plenty of other developers and publishers I could bring up, but I am not sure if it will extend my argument anymore. I am not sure which developer left PC completely. I do not mean focus more on consoles than PC, but actually halted any development or ports for PC and moved to the 360, PS3, or Wii.

It is understandable that DRM is not exactly helpful in preventing or deterring piracy, but it shows that some developers are trying. I do not agree with a developer or publisher focusing more on DRM than on the actual content or features of a game, but the fact that they are trying to protect their games from piracy seems to mean that they want to continue developing games and releasing games for PC while getting their profits where they are due.

I also understand that piracy may deter some sales, but it would not deter sales completely. I do not deny that it is rampant, but I see some developers say that piracy = lost sales when they do not prevent another person from purchasing it (I feel this is a whole other topic or discussion, so please forgive me when I say I do not want to focus or discuss this here). At times, many developers do insist that their game was not the best selling blockbuster hit because of piracy when the actual reason was that the game may have been terrible, full of major bugs, or just flat out bad. I could use piracy as a reason for Alan Wake's current poor sales, but that is not the case (not enough marketing of the game on Microsoft's end). Remedy is even hinting, but not confirming, at a future PC release (Microsoft timed exclusive or poor sales "remedy?"). The use of piracy as an excuse also applies to Epic. They said that piracy prevented their games from being huge money sellers, but it could be from PC gamers not buying Gears of War 1 to pay for GFWL and the disliked Unreal Tournament 3, which many feel was watered down or downgraded from its previous games.

Whenever I reply to someone on these forums asking which developer left PC for consoles, no one answers me or replies to me. They only answer I have seen so far is "developers (plural) are moving to consoles" while they may ignore that we are currently in a multiplatform generation. Sure, there are developers that focus more on consoles, but I have yet to see any major developer or publisher completely drop PC development or porting altogether.

If you buy it, you buy it. I dont believe in buying and returning just because you didn't like. Because then some people that even liked the game will play it, beat it, and return it. That would be the dumbest return policy ever. That's really not fair to the business. Research is plenty enough to learn about the game before you buy. Every single game that I threw down $60 retail for were all games that I enjoyed. People just need to get smarter and stop feeding developers who make crappy games. Basically, some people are just too naive and dumb to care about what they buy. Consumers need to get that in their heads and get it together and stop blaming developers and publishers. As for piracy.

Starcraft 2 will probably get hit with at least half a million pirated copies.. no doubt.

Elian2530

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

my feeling is if people were allowed to return software these developers would get their crap together. blizzard was a very good developer for a long time on the PC because they had to be.

Now these companies have basically licensed everything and gobbled everything up where they can do whatever they please.

Birdy09

piracy is an excuse for devs to bring in drm which kills the used game market. Don't be surprised when the next consoles kill the used game market. The pc used game market is now pretty much dead, soon the console market will have the same fate and gamestop will be fuming. imprezawrx500

Most people I meet hardly even consider piracy a crime. So I expect the problem to be very real.

Seriously, the majority of people consider it, although technically illegal, not wrong as such.

I research before I purchase a game.

There have been several well-written reviews which have stopped me from making a bad purchase.

Dont listen to the bull

PC gaming is alive and sales are fine

the only thing Piracy is killing atm is the PSP

Publishers and devs dont like the PC anymore, because on the PC they cant charge you $10 for map pakcs and stuff, on consoles they can....

If you ask me, the percentage of piracy on PC hasn't increased all that much. The PC user base has increased over time, so naturally there are going to be more pirates but I reckon the overall percentage hasn't deviated a grand amount. The only thing that has changed is that since, say, 2004, a -lot- more people have access to the Internet regularly/permanently, so all these misconceptions can be overblown to gargantuan problems, very easily. How else would the PC market have grown year on year (which it has) without growth in both legit and non-legit consumers? It's also a fall-back failsafe for developers to shrug off any failure on their behalf. It sort of makes me wonder if even developers remember that PC games always sell a fair amount each month over a long, long time rather than the console-esque large burst of sales then nothing ever again. I'm certainly convinced that is why Crytek are making console games now. It is also a large problem in that it has brought about the ugliest thing about gaming: DRM. This actually -does- hurt their legitimate sales and it will get worse. When Spore came out, everyone and their pet dog went ballistic at the idea of having a limited number of activations on your disc, but it was just a foot in the door. Nowadays, people are actively -GLAD- if a game only slaps us with a sentence of limited installs. God forbid the next idea after Ubisoft's inane constant Internet connection DRM. If mainstream publishers continue in this trend, there will no doubt be an even bigger shift to niche titles on the PC, furthermore away from the mainstream than the platform is, even today. Which will no doubt give rise to the constant argument that PC gaming is dying, despite masses of evidence to the contrary. While I agree that the common perception in society today is that software/media piracy isn't a crime / apathy towards 'crime' on the web / actively don't -know- that it's a crime is a problem, I do believe it is overblown on certain platforms and not enough on others. Then there's the second hand software market.-Feath-

Piracy is a nice scapegoat

remedy would have blamed poor sales for alan wake on piracy... oh wait they cant cause its on a console, and there isnt any piracy on consoles......

Crytek CEO said for every crysis copy brought, 15-20 would get pirated, i dont think Crysis could have sold 20mil copies.... Crytek think just by moving to consoles Crysis will become the next MW or halo in sales, they are in for a nice surprise

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

My feeling is I'm an honest consumer. I should be able to return a game if it doesn't work as advertised.

St_muscat

That is purely a matter of opinion and based on opinion you shouldn't be able to return a perfectly good game for a full cash refund even though the game is what it says to be it's just that the consumer can't see that. Also what if the game's RRP is $50 but you buy it for $30, then how much should the company's refund be? If all companies had a return policy like that then they would also have to sell the games they make as well and charge only one price, so you'll be paying more for games. Seriously if you spend $10, $20 or even $60 on a crap game get over it and just sell it on ebay or something, or better yet buy it from EB (7 day return) all I know is that a return policy for companies is too impractical. Because, who's opinion is going to be used to judge quality? Some pople hated FF13 some loved it, so who's opinion on whether the product is good or not should be used here?

[QUOTE="St_muscat"]

Gamestation in the UK offer a full 10 day return, if you return a game within 10 days of purchase they rfund you every penny you paid for it.delta3074

Last I checked all games shops in the UK offer a full 10 day refund on all PC games.

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

piercetruth34

In my opinion, piracy is real but is used a as a scape goat by big publishers. The funny thing is, big publishers aren't hurt nearly as bad by piracy as a small publisher would be. In the end, if you put out sub par products, people won't pay full price for them, and in many cases won't pay for them at all.

I'm of the mindset that a large portion of the pirate community wouldn't actually pay for the games they steal if that was their only option. I may be wrong.

I think stealing is wrong, but I also think if these pubs/devs wanted to combat the piracy movement, they should really look internally first and ask themselves what they're doing wrong. So many games are released half broken, then they turn around and blame pirates for lost sales.

I'd love to see them put forth an effort to make their games more valuable while trying to combat piracy.

[QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

fastr

The only way to research a game is by playing it, which costs money anyway you slice it. Fact is, there should be some kind of return policy on video games, but that would be a bigger blow to this industry of rushed to release crap fests then piracy ever could be.

[QUOTE="fastr"][QUOTE="piercetruth34"]

well the people who liked it have no issue purchasing it i would guess. But what about all the people who didn't? They are just screwed?

Pug-Nasty

The only way to research a game is by playing it, which costs money anyway you slice it. Fact is, there should be some kind of return policy on video games, but that would be a bigger blow to this industry of rushed to release crap fests then piracy ever could be.

[QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]

[QUOTE="fastr"] Yes. unless the game is actually defective. It's up to the consumer to do research before purchasing something. fastr

The only way to research a game is by playing it, which costs money anyway you slice it. Fact is, there should be some kind of return policy on video games, but that would be a bigger blow to this industry of rushed to release crap fests then piracy ever could be.

A review can never really explain how the game feels. I've disagreed with many more critical reviews than I've agreed with, and user reviews as well. Demos are good, but not every game gets a demo, and they are often at the beginning of the game, which is usually the worst part.

However, I really should have said the only way to know if you'll like a game is by playing it.

In my opinion, piracy is real but is used a as a scape goat by big publishers. The funny thing is, big publishers aren't hurt nearly as bad by piracy as a small publisher would be. In the end, if you put out sub par products, people won't pay full price for them, and in many cases won't pay for them at all.

I'm of the mindset that a large portion of the pirate community wouldn't actually pay for the games they steal if that was their only option. I may be wrong.

I think stealing is wrong, but I also think if these pubs/devs wanted to combat the piracy movement, they should really look internally first and ask themselves what they're doing wrong. So many games are released half broken, then they turn around and blame pirates for lost sales.

I'd love to see them put forth an effort to make their games more valuable while trying to combat piracy.

Pug-Nasty