It is needed to redefine the term casual.

Seeing this term thrown around a lot makes me wonder how do you even mix up minigame casual with normal casual.

We seen games like GTA, God of War, World of Warcraft.

Defining casual in terms of these games are by being able to achieve a reward (fun) in a short amount of time, having a lot of save points or easy ways to make the game accessible to stopping at any point, and easy to learn the gameplay mechanics. You also get plenty of health packs or unlimited continues, or none or very little penalty when dead.

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

It should retain the same casual term as above. But where it fall short is keeping the good hardcore qualities of a game. Most of them are 30s to a minute long, the game is done in practically hours, and everyone can enjoy it because there was no challenge.

So there you go. Minigame casual is the most extreme of extreme casuals in existence. Some of SW would try to compare Wii casuals to PS2 casuals when they are immensily different. PS2 casual games have so much depth, so much length, that Wii casual games don't compare.

So don't mix up the two.

First off, World of Warcraft is not a casual game experience.

Barriers to Entry.

1. You need a monthly subcription.

2. You need a decent PC to play.

3. You need to install a **** ton of Updates. Even as a Hardcore gamer who had problems Updating Wow 1.0 I just said **** it.

Casuals don't play Wow.

First off, World of Warcraft is not a casual game experience.

Barriers to Entry.

1. You need a monthly subcription.

2. You need a decent PC to play.

3. You need to install a **** ton of Updates. Even as a Hardcore gamer who had problems Updating Wow 1.0 I just said **** it.

Casuals don't play Wow.

SpecialForcesOp

What the heck does paying or hardware has to do with casual?

It should be common knowledge that WoW is casual with the ability to be hardcore. Blizzard's motto is always "Easy to learn, difficult to master."

Edit: Here's just ONE site that knows its casual. Even Gamespot reviews say it is easy to get into for the casual crowds.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-keep-it-casual.html

So to summarize, NobuoMusicMaker wants you to know the casuals who bought HIS preferred system are better than the casuals who bought YOUR preferred system.
*sigh*
Could we possibly get any more petty?

So to summarize, NobuoMusicMaker wants you to know the casuals who bought HISperfered system are better than the casuals who bought YOUR perfered system.
*sigh*
Could we possibly get any more petty?

Hoffgod

I preferred people got their terms right.

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

NobuoMusicMaker

okay so lets test this definition. does GTA have an amazing story and lore? i think that's arguable. a length of time required to beat the entire game. what length of time? 2 hours? 10 hours? 50 hours? some sort of skill. can you be more vague?

how about sports games? they don't have amazing stories. all sports are now casual right? racing too.

Quake Arena, UT, Counterstrike all have practically no story. all are casual now right?

So let me get this striaght

50 cent bulletproof is the good type of casual game

whereas warioware is the bad type of casual game :?

Seeing this term thrown around a lot makes me wonder how do you even mix up minigame casual with normal casual.

We seen games like GTA, God of War, World of Warcraft.

Defining casual in terms of these games are by being able to achieve a reward (fun) in a short amount of time, having a lot of save points or easy ways to make the game accessible to stopping at any point, and easy to learn the gameplay mechanics. You also get plenty of health packs or unlimited continues, or none or very little penalty when dead.

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

It should retain the same casual term as above. But where it fall short is keeping the good hardcore qualities of a game. Most of them are 30s to a minute long, the game is done in practically hours, and everyone can enjoy it because there was no challenge.

So there you go. Minigame casual is the most extreme of extreme casuals in existence. Some of SW would try to compare Wii casuals to PS2 casuals when they are immensily different. PS2 casual games have so much depth, so much length, that Wii casual games don't compare.

So don't mix up the two.

NobuoMusicMaker

The biggest mistake is to focus on the two terms hardcore and casual. What people dont realize is that those two terms are the two EXTREMES. Most gamers are somewhere in between and thats why as more and more SW fanboys try to generalize a group of gamers they tend to find more and more exceptions and problems. Lets just agree that the 100-200 million gamers can't be neatly categorized in just TWO categories.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

Ontain

okay so lets test this definition. does GTA have an amazing story and lore? i think that's arguable. a length of time required to beat the entire game. what length of time? 2 hours? 10 hours? 50 hours? some sort of skill. can you be more vague?

how about sports games? they don't have amazing stories. all sports are now casual right? racing too.

Quake Arena, UT, Counterstrike all have practically no story. all are casual now right?

GTA has amazing story. And GTA games requires a lot of hours to beat because it has so many missions and that's not even including the sandbox side missions. I'm not sure how much more descriptive can I get. The fact that even 1 minute minigame would make a 1 hour seem like an eternity.

Sports games are quite casual. I'd agree to that. Racing games, not really. Gran Turismo had me playing 1 hour races to complete the whole game. Wangan Midnight has an 80 stage storyline to beat. Obviously, racing games can be hardcore, takes lots of skills, but there are a lot of casual racers.

Those FPS are extremely hardcore. The purpose of a story is to get you into the game. Those online FPS use fast paced competition to do that. And you require too much skill to be competitive.

They're all the same. You say Rayman and Wario Ware sold a million, I say Red Steel and Zelda sold a million. Everyone has something.

It's just that in the next 6 months, the hardcores are going to be far more satisfied than the mini-game fans on the Wii.

So let me get this striaght

50 cent bulletproof is the good type of casual game

whereas warioware is the bad type of casual game :?

donaldo1989

Whoa hey there, when did I ever say good or bad casual games? Automatic assumptions 4tl.

Seeing this term thrown around a lot makes me wonder how do you even mix up minigame casual with normal casual.

We seen games like GTA, God of War, World of Warcraft.

Defining casual in terms of these games are by being able to achieve a reward (fun) in a short amount of time, having a lot of save points or easy ways to make the game accessible to stopping at any point, and easy to learn the gameplay mechanics. You also get plenty of health packs or unlimited continues, or none or very little penalty when dead.

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

It should retain the same casual term as above. But where it fall short is keeping the good hardcore qualities of a game. Most of them are 30s to a minute long, the game is done in practically hours, and everyone can enjoy it because there was no challenge.

So there you go. Minigame casual is the most extreme of extreme casuals in existence. Some of SW would try to compare Wii casuals to PS2 casuals when they are immensily different. PS2 casual games have so much depth, so much length, that Wii casual games don't compare.

So don't mix up the two.

NobuoMusicMaker

Why should the term "casuals" be redefined? If casuals play those games, then those are casual games. What you hardcore gamers don't seem to understand is that casuals are true gamers. They don't care about any non-existent social stigma when they play games; they just play games to have fun.

So no, the term "casuals" should not be redefined. Rather, the negative connotation on that term needs to be removed.

[QUOTE="SpecialForcesOp"]

First off, World of Warcraft is not a casual game experience.

Barriers to Entry.

1. You need a monthly subcription.

2. You need a decent PC to play.

3. You need to install a **** ton of Updates. Even as a Hardcore gamer who had problems Updating Wow 1.0 I just said **** it.

Casuals don't play Wow.

NobuoMusicMaker

What the heck does paying or hardware has to do with casual?

It should be common knowledge that WoW is casual with the ability to be hardcore. Blizzard's motto is always "Easy to learn, difficult to master."

Edit: Here's just ONE site that knows its casual. Even Gamespot reviews say it is easy to get into for the casual crowds.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-keep-it-casual.html

your average joe or soccer mom isn't going to get into Wow like they are the Wii.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="SpecialForcesOp"]

First off, World of Warcraft is not a casual game experience.

Barriers to Entry.

1. You need a monthly subcription.

2. You need a decent PC to play.

3. You need to install a **** ton of Updates. Even as a Hardcore gamer who had problems Updating Wow 1.0 I just said **** it.

Casuals don't play Wow.

SpecialForcesOp

What the heck does paying or hardware has to do with casual?

It should be common knowledge that WoW is casual with the ability to be hardcore. Blizzard's motto is always "Easy to learn, difficult to master."

Edit: Here's just ONE site that knows its casual. Even Gamespot reviews say it is easy to get into for the casual crowds.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-keep-it-casual.html

your average joe or soccer mom isn't going to get into Wow like they are the Wii.

Tell that to my uncle. He's an average joe, plays hold 'em poker with his buddies every Saturday, watches football, has a family, but still plays WoW.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

So to summarize, NobuoMusicMaker wants you to know the casuals who bought HISperfered system are better than the casuals who bought YOUR perfered system.
*sigh*
Could we possibly get any more petty?

NobuoMusicMaker

I preferred people got their terms right.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="SpecialForcesOp"]

First off, World of Warcraft is not a casual game experience.

Barriers to Entry.

1. You need a monthly subcription.

2. You need a decent PC to play.

3. You need to install a **** ton of Updates. Even as a Hardcore gamer who had problems Updating Wow 1.0 I just said **** it.

Casuals don't play Wow.

SpecialForcesOp

What the heck does paying or hardware has to do with casual?

It should be common knowledge that WoW is casual with the ability to be hardcore. Blizzard's motto is always "Easy to learn, difficult to master."

Edit: Here's just ONE site that knows its casual. Even Gamespot reviews say it is easy to get into for the casual crowds.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-keep-it-casual.html

your average joe or soccer mom isn't going to get into Wow like they are the Wii.

I have about 5 soccer moms playing WoW in my previous guild. Some of their husbands play as well as their kids.

Seeing this term thrown around a lot makes me wonder how do you even mix up minigame casual with normal casual.

We seen games like GTA, God of War, World of Warcraft.

Defining casual in terms of these games are by being able to achieve a reward (fun) in a short amount of time, having a lot of save points or easy ways to make the game accessible to stopping at any point, and easy to learn the gameplay mechanics. You also get plenty of health packs or unlimited continues, or none or very little penalty when dead.

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

It should retain the same casual term as above. But where it fall short is keeping the good hardcore qualities of a game. Most of them are 30s to a minute long, the game is done in practically hours, and everyone can enjoy it because there was no challenge.

So there you go. Minigame casual is the most extreme of extreme casuals in existence. Some of SW would try to compare Wii casuals to PS2 casuals when they are immensily different. PS2 casual games have so much depth, so much length, that Wii casual games don't compare.

So don't mix up the two.

NobuoMusicMaker

The words "clutching" and "straws" come to mind.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Seeing this term thrown around a lot makes me wonder how do you even mix up minigame casual with normal casual.

We seen games like GTA, God of War, World of Warcraft.

Defining casual in terms of these games are by being able to achieve a reward (fun) in a short amount of time, having a lot of save points or easy ways to make the game accessible to stopping at any point, and easy to learn the gameplay mechanics. You also get plenty of health packs or unlimited continues, or none or very little penalty when dead.

Of course, these are considered casual games, but yet they retain the qualities of a hardcore criteria. They still have amazing story/lore depth, a length of time required to beat the entire game, and you have to exercise some sort of skill to beat the game.

Now we have minigame casual. The new casual brought up by the DS and the Wii.

To name some, it would be Wii sports, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabbids.

It should retain the same casual term as above. But where it fall short is keeping the good hardcore qualities of a game. Most of them are 30s to a minute long, the game is done in practically hours, and everyone can enjoy it because there was no challenge.

So there you go. Minigame casual is the most extreme of extreme casuals in existence. Some of SW would try to compare Wii casuals to PS2 casuals when they are immensily different. PS2 casual games have so much depth, so much length, that Wii casual games don't compare.

So don't mix up the two.

UKNintendoFreak

The words "clutching" and "straws" come to mind.

He doesn't realize that even if he redefines "casual" and "hardcore" along his own lines, all he is doing is relabeling most Wii and DS owners as "hardcore."

[QUOTE="donaldo1989"]

So let me get this striaght

50 cent bulletproof is the good type of casual game

whereas warioware is the bad type of casual game :?

NobuoMusicMaker

Whoa hey there, when did I ever say good or bad casual games? Automatic assumptions 4tl.

Because hardcore games are considered to be good in system wars, and bulletproof fits your example of a casual game that retains some hardcore criteria.

Therefore bulletproof is a better type of causual game than warioware because warioware falls short of keeping the good hardcore qualities.

Therefore 50cent bulletproof casual> warioware casual.

IOW, Im just playing around with your words :P

GTA has amazing story. And GTA games requires a lot of hours to beat because it has so many missions and that's not even including the sandbox side missions. I'm not sure how much more descriptive can I get. The fact that even 1 minute minigame would make a 1 hour seem like an eternity.

Sports games are quite casual. I'd agree to that. Racing games, not really. Gran Turismo had me playing 1 hour races to complete the whole game. Wangan Midnight has an 80 stage storyline to beat. Obviously, racing games can be hardcore, takes lots of skills, but there are a lot of casual racers.

Those FPS are extremely hardcore. The purpose of a story is to get you into the game. Those online FPS use fast paced competition to do that. And you require too much skill to be competitive.

NobuoMusicMaker

so you're now saying that only one of your 3 criteria is needed to not be considered casual?

well one could say that RRR is hardcore then because like GT it takes a lot of skill and time to get 1000 points on all the different stages, right?

Most of you don't realize, because of fanboyism, that my topic may not be targeting you.

If you shun minigames and only play Zelda or Metroid Prime, you're hardcore.
If you play some minigames and play Zelda or Metroid Prime to death, you're in the middle ground where most gamers exist as casuals.
If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you.

GTA has amazing story. And GTA games requires a lot of hours to beat because it has so many missions and that's not even including the sandbox side missions. I'm not sure how much more descriptive can I get. The fact that even 1 minute minigame would make a 1 hour seem like an eternity.

Sports games are quite casual. I'd agree to that. Racing games, not really. Gran Turismo had me playing 1 hour races to complete the whole game. Wangan Midnight has an 80 stage storyline to beat. Obviously, racing games can be hardcore, takes lots of skills, but there are a lot of casual racers.

Those FPS are extremely hardcore. The purpose of a story is to get you into the game. Those online FPS use fast paced competition to do that. And you require too much skill to be competitive.

NobuoMusicMaker

Are you kidding me? The Teletubbies tells a better story than that unispired wannabe-gangster crap.

Most of you don't realize, because of fanboyism, that my topic may not be targeting you.

If you shun minigames and only play Zelda or Metroid Prime, you're hardcore.
If you play some minigames and play Zelda or Metroid Prime to death, you're in the middle ground where most gamers exist as casuals.
If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you.

NobuoMusicMaker

If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you. NobuoMusicMaker

*sigh* I asked if you could possibly be any more petty, Nobuo. Thank you for answering my question.

Most of you don't realize, because of fanboyism, that my topic may not be targeting you.

If you shun minigames and only play Zelda or Metroid Prime, you're hardcore.
If you play some minigames and play Zelda or Metroid Prime to death, you're in the middle ground where most gamers exist as casuals.
If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you.

NobuoMusicMaker

You're going against the law that if you post on gamespot then no matter what you are not a casual gamer

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Most of you don't realize, because of fanboyism, that my topic may not be targeting you.

If you shun minigames and only play Zelda or Metroid Prime, you're hardcore.
If you play some minigames and play Zelda or Metroid Prime to death, you're in the middle ground where most gamers exist as casuals.
If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you.

ithilgore2006

I think minigames are evil, but did my previous post say it? Nope. Just pointing out the many mistakes in confusing the term casual.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you. Hoffgod

*sigh* I asked if you could possibly be any more petty, Nobuo. Thank you for answering my question.

If you're minigame casual, then you're minigame casual. It's up to the individual to think whether one is better than the other. But it's a fact that they are two seperate terms of casual. So I never said one casual is better than another.

I, as an individual, think minigame casuals are at the bottom. That's my opinion.

[QUOTE="ithilgore2006"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Most of you don't realize, because of fanboyism, that my topic may not be targeting you.

If you shun minigames and only play Zelda or Metroid Prime, you're hardcore.
If you play some minigames and play Zelda or Metroid Prime to death, you're in the middle ground where most gamers exist as casuals.
If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you.

NobuoMusicMaker

I think minigames are evil, but did my previous post say it? Nope. Just pointing out the many mistakes in confusing the term casual.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you. Hoffgod

*sigh* I asked if you could possibly be any more petty, Nobuo. Thank you for answering my question.

If you're minigame casual, then you're minigame casual. It's up to the individual to think whether one is better than the other. But it's a fact that they are two seperate terms of casual. So I never said one casual is better than another.

I, as an individual, think minigame casuals are at the bottom. That's my opinion.

Casuals would be like someone who reads books occasionally, or when a new book in a series they like comes out, but other then that they don't do much reading, wheras a hardcore would be akin to a person would often be getting new books, from new series or just one offs, and reading on a regular basis. What books it is they're reading isn't important, it how much and how serious they consider their reading. Same with gamers.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]If you defend minigames in SW like your life depends on it, you're a minigame casual no matter how much Zelda you play. Even playing Zelda 2 won't help you. NobuoMusicMaker

*sigh* I asked if you could possibly be any more petty, Nobuo. Thank you for answering my question.

If you're minigame casual, then you're minigame casual. It's up to the individual to think whether one is better than the other. But it's a fact that they are two seperate terms of casual. So I never said one casual is better than another.

I, as an individual, think minigame casuals are at the bottom. That's my opinion.

And trying to carve out a new group simply to belittle them is petty.

Further, any pretense of intelectual honesty was given up with your latest revision of your definition. If you defend minigames then you're a minigame casual, regardless of what you actually play? What kind of definition is that?

This whole thread exists to allow you to better belittle those who disagree with your preferences and it's really quite sad. Perhaps you should just try accepting that other people have different opinions which are not inherently better or worse than yours?

Casuals would be like someone who reads books occasionally, or when a new book in a series they like comes out, but other then that they don't do much reading, wheras a hardcore would be akin to a person would often be getting new books, from new series or just one offs, and reading on a regular basis. What books it is they're reading isn't important, it how much and how serious they consider their reading. Same with gamers.

ithilgore2006

I agree with you. it's Gamers that are casual or not. he says wow is casual but there are hardcore wow players. anyone that wishes to take games seriously enough is hardcore in there own way. and of course most ppl that buy games do it for fun and not because they think they are hardcore.

I'm ok with this defenition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_gamer

[QUOTE="ithilgore2006"]

Casuals would be like someone who reads books occasionally, or when a new book in a series they like comes out, but other then that they don't do much reading, wheras a hardcore would be akin to a person would often be getting new books, from new series or just one offs, and reading on a regular basis. What books it is they're reading isn't important, it how much and how serious they consider their reading. Same with gamers.

Ontain

I agree with you. it's Gamers that are casual or not. he says wow is casual but there are hardcore wow players. anyone that wishes to take games seriously enough is hardcore in there own way. and of course most ppl that buy games do it for fun and not because they think they are hardcore.

I predict that within 20-30 more posts, your good arguments will wear on Nobuo's patience and he'll resort to directly and openly bashing the Wii again.

Most of the time I would describe casual gamers are people who own normally one console only play games for a couple of hours a week maximum and tend to play the same games over and over again.

For Example:

People who just buy a ps2 for singstar/buzz in other words party games.

DS owners who just play Nintendogs or Brain Training.

People who just buy a consoles because it's the latest must have and don't care about the games.

I disagree with a few in the case of WOW, I would say, it's not a casual game, it's takes up far too much time and there is the monthly subscription fee as well, and everybody I know who plays WOW, owns other consoles or plays other games on the pc beside WOW.

[QUOTE="ithilgore2006"]

Casuals would be like someone who reads books occasionally, or when a new book in a series they like comes out, but other then that they don't do much reading, wheras a hardcore would be akin to a person would often be getting new books, from new series or just one offs, and reading on a regular basis. What books it is they're reading isn't important, it how much and how serious they consider their reading. Same with gamers.

Ontain

I agree with you. it's Gamers that are casual or not. he says wow is casual but there are hardcore wow players. anyone that wishes to take games seriously enough is hardcore in there own way. and of course most ppl that buy games do it for fun and not because they think they are hardcore.

Wow is a casual game because casual gamers play on it. If there are hardcore elements in a casually friendly game, it doesn't make it hardcore. It makes certain part of it hardcore but the game is overall developed for casual players.

I disagree with a few in the case of WOW, I would say, it's not a casual game, it's takes up far too much time and there is the monthly subscription fee as well, and everybody I know who plays WOW, owns other consoles or plays other games on the pc beside WOW.

Tohru_Readman

WoW can take up a lot of time. That's because the game is good. Quests are easy to finish, leveling is 10 times faster than EQ or FFXI grindy leveling, and crafting is done in a matter of minutes. The misconception that it takes up a lot of time is because when a casual player plays the game, they start to become more hardcore and want to play more of the game. It's the result of a good game. And monthly fee is practically negligible for a lot of subscribers. If they play WoW for at least 10 hours a month, they already got a 60 dollar game's worth of gameplay.

Now Blizzard makes tons of content for the hardcore and the extremist like Nihilum are blazing through it, but eventually casual players will be able to experience some end content.

Games like World of Warcraft are made for casual players so it is a casual game. But don't blame Blizzard when they term those casual players into hardcore players. That's the whole Blizzard idea.

Casual gamer = Someone who spends maybe a couple hours a week playing video games. The type of game they play doesn't matter, but they don't own a lot of them.

True hardcore gamer = Someone who spends a lot of time playing video games. Plays every type of game, and usually plays to complete the game. Owns many games.

SW hardcore gamer = Pretentious little teenage boy with bad grammar who thinks that only games with gratuitous violence are worth playing. Has a tendency to make fun of games that don't involve guns in some fashion.

Gamer = Someone who loves playing games and thinks terms such as "hardcore" and "casual" are really quite lame, and thinks that the people who feel the need to use them are even lamer.

Wow is a casual game because casual gamers play on it. If there are hardcore elements in a casually friendly game, it doesn't make it hardcore. It makes certain part of it hardcore but the game is overall developed for casual players.

WoW can take up a lot of time. That's because the game is good. Quests are easy to finish, leveling is 10 times faster than EQ or FFXI grindy leveling, and crafting is done in a matter of minutes. The misconception that it takes up a lot of time is because when a casual player plays the game, they start to become more hardcore and want to play more of the game. It's the result of a good game. And monthly fee is practically negligible for a lot of subscribers. If they play WoW for at least 10 hours a month, they already got a 60 dollar game's worth of gameplay.

Now Blizzard makes tons of content for the hardcore and the extremist like Nihilum are blazing through it, but eventually casual players will be able to experience some end content.

Games like World of Warcraft are made for casual players so it is a casual game. But don't blame Blizzard when they term those casual players into hardcore players. That's the whole Blizzard idea.

NobuoMusicMaker

1. so now you're saying that "Wow is a casual game because casual gamers play on it." So FF, GTA, HALO, GT and all successful games are also casual because obviously with millions of sales casuals are indeed playing on them.

2. you say that lvling is 10x faster than other games. anyone that has seriously played wow knows that level to cap is just the start of the real game. also does having grindy leveling make a game more hardcore? I can make a game where you have to kill the same spawning creatures 1 billion times to lvl. is that hardcore? personally i just think that would just be a bad game. also try to get a gold medal in all the wiisports events. i bet you can't or it would take you months of constant practice. does that make it hardcore?

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Wow is a casual game because casual gamers play on it. If there are hardcore elements in a casually friendly game, it doesn't make it hardcore. It makes certain part of it hardcore but the game is overall developed for casual players.

WoW can take up a lot of time. That's because the game is good. Quests are easy to finish, leveling is 10 times faster than EQ or FFXI grindy leveling, and crafting is done in a matter of minutes. The misconception that it takes up a lot of time is because when a casual player plays the game, they start to become more hardcore and want to play more of the game. It's the result of a good game. And monthly fee is practically negligible for a lot of subscribers. If they play WoW for at least 10 hours a month, they already got a 60 dollar game's worth of gameplay.

Now Blizzard makes tons of content for the hardcore and the extremist like Nihilum are blazing through it, but eventually casual players will be able to experience some end content.

Games like World of Warcraft are made for casual players so it is a casual game. But don't blame Blizzard when they term those casual players into hardcore players. That's the whole Blizzard idea.

Ontain

1. so now you're saying that "Wow is a casual game because casual gamers play on it." So FF, GTA, HALO, GT and all successful games are also casual because obviously with millions of sales casuals are indeed playing on them.

2. you say that lvling is 10x faster than other games. anyone that has seriously played wow knows that level to cap is just the start of the real game. also does having grindy leveling make a game more hardcore? I can make a game where you have to kill the same spawning creatures 1 billion times to lvl. is that hardcore? personally i just think that would just be a bad game. also try to get a gold medal in all the wiisports events. i bet you can't or it would take you months of constant practice. does that make it hardcore?

I don't know about FF or GT... but all 4 games have hardcore elements in them to make a lasting, appealing game.

Umm anyone who seriously played WoW knows that the ingenious questing system makes you forget you're even killing mobs over and over. And you actually don't kill mobs over and over if you play the game the way it was made. But yes, hardcore starts at the end where killing super bosses with a team of 10-40 when everyone need to be on their feet or everyone dies. They spend a lot of time doing the content that just gets released.

And I already have gold in all Wiisport events. I play tennis and hockey. With my gaming and sports experience, I beat most events with gold in the first shot. Figuring out how to play the game is minimizing physical stress is simple. Most of the time I just do waggles to beat the event.

I don't know about FF or GT... but all 4 games have hardcore elements in them to make a lasting, appealing game.

Umm anyone who seriously played WoW knows that the ingenious questing system makes you forget you're even killing mobs over and over. And you actually don't kill mobs over and over if you play the game the way it was made. But yes, hardcore starts at the end where killing super bosses with a team of 10-40 when everyone need to be on their feet or everyone dies. They spend a lot of time doing the content that just gets released.

And I already have gold in all Wiisport events. I play tennis and hockey. With my gaming and sports experience, I beat most events with gold in the first shot. Figuring out how to play the game is minimizing physical stress is simple. Most of the time I just do waggles to beat the event.

NobuoMusicMaker

you really need to hammer down one definition because you're all over the map trying to rationalize why games you think are hardcore are not casual and ones that you think are casual are. tell me is wow casual or not and according to what definition because i always see your hardcore games falling into the same defintion. you've not achieve your objective of defining the term casual at all.

some how i doubt your wiisports skills :roll:

All console only gamers are casuals, consoles were developed so they are simple to use and appeal to casual players.

Plus look how dumbed down console games are becoming. They have to be to appeal to the audience.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

I don't know about FF or GT... but all 4 games have hardcore elements in them to make a lasting, appealing game.

Umm anyone who seriously played WoW knows that the ingenious questing system makes you forget you're even killing mobs over and over. And you actually don't kill mobs over and over if you play the game the way it was made. But yes, hardcore starts at the end where killing super bosses with a team of 10-40 when everyone need to be on their feet or everyone dies. They spend a lot of time doing the content that just gets released.

And I already have gold in all Wiisport events. I play tennis and hockey. With my gaming and sports experience, I beat most events with gold in the first shot. Figuring out how to play the game is minimizing physical stress is simple. Most of the time I just do waggles to beat the event.

Ontain

you really need to hammer down one definition because you're all over the map trying to rationalize why games you think are hardcore are not casual and ones that you think are casual are. tell me is wow casual or not and according to what definition because i always see your hardcore games falling into the same defintion. you've not achieve your objective of defining the term casual at all.

some how i doubt your wiisports skills :roll:

WoW casual are those who can't spend the time. So WoW is the game that lets them have a ton of fun without too much investment. That goes according to my definition exactly. They spend a couple hours a day, not 1-2 minutes. WoW is a game that you can go on and do a few quests for an hour or so and log off at the inn. Wii minigame appeal only last for 1-2 hours. WoW has that hardcore element but its basis itself around casual gameplay for the most part.

You doubt my wiisports skills? Anyone can play such a simple game. And when a hardcore player plays it, it's done so fast because avid gamers know how to game. I guess I'll let the Lazy Wii Guy show you how to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLg1NeWDE8

WoW casual are those who can't spend the time. So WoW is the game that lets them have a ton of fun without too much investment. That goes according to my definition exactly. They spend a couple hours a day, not 1-2 minutes. WoW is a game that you can go on and do a few quests for an hour or so and log off at the inn. Wii minigame appeal only last for 1-2 hours. WoW has that hardcore element but its basis itself around casual gameplay for the most part.

You doubt my wiisports skills? Anyone can play such a simple game. And when a hardcore player plays it, it's done so fast because avid gamers know how to game. I guess I'll let the Lazy Wii Guy show you how to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLg1NeWDE8

NobuoMusicMaker

1. which is it hardcore or casual? are you now making a new casual with hardcore elements term? a lot of racing games are played like minigames. does that make them casual? Halo matches are like minigames is that casual? wow has arena matches and ranks. it's pretty much a minigame in wow. does that make it casual? if you can't define this well why do you bother trying to convince us that you know what's casual and what's not. seems just like your preference to me.

2. I've see it and that video is obviously a joke. no, getting gold on all events is not quickly done. much like Othello a game can be simple to learn to play but difficult to master.

All console only gamers are casuals, consoles were developed so they are simple to use and appeal to casual players.

Plus look how dumbed down console games are becoming. They have to be to appeal to the audience.

tenaka2

yay for ignorance!

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

All console only gamers are casuals, consoles were developed so they are simple to use and appeal to casual players.

Plus look how dumbed down console games are becoming. They have to be to appeal to the audience.

6matt6

yay for ignorance!

He's right. Just look what happened to the Tom Clancy games that originated on the PC and how much simpler they are on consoles.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

WoW casual are those who can't spend the time. So WoW is the game that lets them have a ton of fun without too much investment. That goes according to my definition exactly. They spend a couple hours a day, not 1-2 minutes. WoW is a game that you can go on and do a few quests for an hour or so and log off at the inn. Wii minigame appeal only last for 1-2 hours. WoW has that hardcore element but its basis itself around casual gameplay for the most part.

You doubt my wiisports skills? Anyone can play such a simple game. And when a hardcore player plays it, it's done so fast because avid gamers know how to game. I guess I'll let the Lazy Wii Guy show you how to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLg1NeWDE8

Ontain

1. which is it hardcore or casual? are you now making a new casual with hardcore elements term? a lot of racing games are played like minigames. does that make them casual? Halo matches are like minigames is that casual? wow has arena matches and ranks. it's pretty much a minigame in wow. does that make it casual? if you can't define this well why do you bother trying to convince us that you know what's casual and what's not. seems just like your preference to me.

2. I've see it and that video is obviously a joke. no, getting gold on all events is not quickly done. much like Othello a game can be simple to learn to play but difficult to master.

Read the first post.

And FPS matches = minigames? Do I have to make a post defining minigames? Are sheeps this desperate to rid themselves of the stigmata of having too many minigame releases?

Wii Sports is not difficult to master at all.

okay so all FPSs are casual too. seems odd that pro gamers are usually known for how skilled they are at FPSs. but they are casual. yes i see :roll:

tell me then. what is not a casual game? in fact list 10.