John Carmack:You need a 3.68 Teraflop GPU to match PS4's GPU

..

[QUOTE="killzowned24"][QUOTE="kipsta77"]

:lol: at people who actually try to jusitfy it.

faizan_faizan

For those folks thinking a console will touch a PC.

I ran some tests that test for T-flo/ G-flop performance.

My 480 is the top GPU in the graph, the one below is a Radeon 7870 XT, the next one under is a GTX 580, and under that a GTX 570.

1.63 T-flops from my 480, yet only 7% behind the flagship 7800 series AMD GPU, this is yet another show of why T-flop performance is useless when testing real world performance.

[QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]

Paying 4x the price of PS4 just to match it and beg for console ports. PC isn't for everyone.

GioVela2010

:roll:

All the while you probably still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most console fanboys tend to be kids. And they endlessly troll the PC simply because they don't earn their own money and they know their parents won't buy them more than one console. It's the same reason they bash other consoles, even though those other consoles are so exteremely similar to the console they own.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

[QUOTE="killzowned24"] 2006 hardware mitu123

I think the image quality is pretty crappy in terms of things like anti-aliasing and texture filtering, but the core visuals are quite nice. That said, I don't think those outdoor environments are really that amazing. Even games like Assassin's Creed 3 or Tomb Raider on the PC have better looking natural outdoor environments.

1.63 T-flops from my 480, yet only 7% behind the flagship 7800 series AMD GPU, this is yet another show of why T-flop performance is useless when testing real world performance.

AMD655

Yeah, I think flops generally should only be compared between cards of the same vendor and same series.

[QUOTE="GioVela2010"][QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]

Paying 4x the price of PS4 just to match it and beg for console ports. PC isn't for everyone.

kalipekona

:roll:

All the while you probably still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most console fanboys tend to be kids. And they endlessly troll the PC simply because they don't earn their own money and they know their parents won't buy them more than one console. It's the same reason they bash other consoles, even though those other consoles are so exteremely similar to the console they own.

*snip images*>mitu123

I think the image quality is pretty crappy in terms of things like anti-aliasing and texture filtering, but the core visuals are quite nice. That said, I don't think those outdoor environments are really that amazing. Even games like Assassin's Creed 3 or Tomb Raider on the PC have better looking natural outdoor environments.

kalipekona

While it's a given that things look and run better on PC. TLOU is a true marvel. From what I played and watched being played at the TLOU party me and my friends had. The game was consistent in almost all areas of the game. I have seen nothing blurry or out of place in the game. Well there is the TV's that everyone had. Cut and paste. Other then that they did a good job juggling assets.

It amazes me how they got that game to even look like that and the liquid effects too are cool.

I have a left over 60 GB SSD I placed in my PS3. The TLOU plays smooth. With very little stuttering in transitions and little or no frame drop in heavy scenes.

At the TLOU party we using a PS3 with the stock HDD. I did see stuttering and frame dips at times. There were also some odd bugs that happened. Which I never seen on mine. The cool thing is PS3 has a HDD LED... So when the bugs were happening the HDD LED was usually blasting at a continuous pace.

Where as mine get's all the data loaded up alot faster. The LED still blinks at a dim pace because the game is heavily streamed.

It would have been something to see if PS3 had 1GB of RAM (512 system and 512 GPU). But doing that level of graphics with just 512MB and old HW... Just blows your mind.

[QUOTE="kalipekona"]

 

I think the image quality is pretty crappy in terms of things like anti-aliasing and texture filtering, but the core visuals are quite nice. That said, I don't think those outdoor environments are really that amazing. Even games like Assassin's Creed 3 or Tomb Raider on the PC have better looking natural outdoor environments.

Truth_Hurts_U

While it's a given that things look and run better on PC. TLOU is a true marvel. From what I played and watched being played at the TLOU party me and my friends had. The game was consistent in almost all areas of the game. I have seen nothing blurry or out of place in the game. Well there is the TV's that everyone had. Cut and paste. Other then that they did a good job juggling assets.

It amazes me how they got that game to even look like that and the liquid effects too are cool.

I have a left over 60 GB SSD I placed in my PS3. The TLOU plays smooth. With very little stuttering in transitions and little or no frame drop in heavy scenes.

At the TLOU party we using a PS3 with the stock HDD. I did see stuttering and frame dips at times. There were also some odd bugs that happened. Which I never seen on mine. The cool thing is PS3 has a HDD LED... So when the bugs were happening the HDD LED was usually blasting at a continuous pace.

Where as mine get's all the data loaded up alot faster. The LED still blinks at a dim pace because the game is heavily streamed.

It would have been something to see if PS3 had 1GB of RAM (512 system and 512 GPU). But doing that level of graphics with just 512MB and old HW... Just blows your mind.

[QUOTE="kalipekona"]

 

I think the image quality is pretty crappy in terms of things like anti-aliasing and texture filtering, but the core visuals are quite nice. That said, I don't think those outdoor environments are really that amazing. Even games like Assassin's Creed 3 or Tomb Raider on the PC have better looking natural outdoor environments.

Truth_Hurts_U

While it's a given that things look and run better on PC. TLOU is a true marvel. From what I played and watched being played at the TLOU party me and my friends had. The game was consistent in almost all areas of the game. I have seen nothing blurry or out of place in the game. Well there is the TV's that everyone had. Cut and paste. Other then that they did a good job juggling assets.

It amazes me how they got that game to even look like that and the liquid effects too are cool.

I have a left over 60 GB SSD I placed in my PS3. The TLOU plays smooth. With very little stuttering in transitions and little or no frame drop in heavy scenes.

At the TLOU party we using a PS3 with the stock HDD. I did see stuttering and frame dips at times. There were also some odd bugs that happened. Which I never seen on mine. The cool thing is PS3 has a HDD LED... So when the bugs were happening the HDD LED was usually blasting at a continuous pace.

Where as mine get's all the data loaded up alot faster. The LED still blinks at a dim pace because the game is heavily streamed.

It would have been something to see if PS3 had 1GB of RAM (512 system and 512 GPU). But doing that level of graphics with just 512MB and old HW... Just blows your mind.

While I do agree with you that it is a very nice looking game (aside from the areas I already pointed out), I have to call BS on your claim about the SSD improving performance.

The slowdown occurs in areas with more going on and it is sustained over many seconds. That is clearly a graphics performance issue, not a streaming issue. Naughty Dog's engine streams in most everything behind the scenes (that, and the fairly linear structure of the games, is why you see relatively liitle pop-in in their games), so an SSD wouldn't help with that. SSDs generally don't help with framerates at all, they speed up load times and sometimes improve momentary hitching caused by assets that take too long to load in.

While I do agree with you that it is a very nice looking game (aside from the areas I already pointed out), I have to call BS on your claim about the SSD improving performance.

The slowdown occurs in areas with more going on and it is sustained over many seconds. That is clearly a graphics performance issue, not a streaming issue. Naughty Dog's engine streams in most everything behind the scenes (that, and the fairly linear structure of the games, is why you see relatively liitle pop-in in their games), so an SSD wouldn't help with that. SSDs generally don't help with framerates at all, they spead up load times and sometimes improve momentary hitching caused by assets that take too long to load in.

kalipekona

You don't know how an SSD works it seems. The access time is ns's and not ms's. The random reads and rights of small files is also superior.

I see a number of bugs. Clicker attack bug where the screen went black and the game reset to last check point. I seen the duffle bag bug where you fall through the ground. Once the game fully loaded there wasn't a glitch. All these glitches were while the HDD was blasting away.

As I have said the game is heavily streamed. The longer it takes for that data to reach where it needs to be the lower the performance. I seen the difference. So I know. You on the other hand prob never played a PS3 with an SSD. It makes any heavy streaming game run smoother and load faster.

[QUOTE="kipsta77"]

:lol: at people who actually try to jusitfy it.

killzowned24

Amazing. Naughty Dog are such a talented studio. They are excellent at pushing the capability of a hardware. I bet there are no games on PC that match The Last Of Us in terms of animations and AI.happyduds77

Isn't AI one of the more criticized TLoU aspects?

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]Amazing. Naughty Dog are such a talented studio. They are excellent at pushing the capability of a hardware. I bet there are no games on PC that match The Last Of Us in terms of animations and AI.Rocker6

Isn't AI one of the more criticized TLoU aspects?

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]Amazing. Naughty Dog are such a talented studio. They are excellent at pushing the capability of a hardware. I bet there are no games on PC that match The Last Of Us in terms of animations and AI.happyduds77

Isn't AI one of the more criticized TLoU aspects?

Nothing on PC matches TLOU's gameplay or AI, nothing on PC looks as good either.

-Fanboy words.

[QUOTE="happyduds77"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]

Isn't AI one of the more criticized TLoU aspects?

AMD655

Nothing on PC matches TLOU's gameplay or AI, nothing on PC looks as good either.

-Fanboy words.

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]Amazing. Naughty Dog are such a talented studio. They are excellent at pushing the capability of a hardware. I bet there are no games on PC that match The Last Of Us in terms of animations and AI.happyduds77

Isn't AI one of the more criticized TLoU aspects?

Wait... are you saying enemies can't see Ellie while sneaking around?

So basically, if you put Joel in cover but Ellie is outside where she can be seen, the enemies won't react?

[QUOTE="happyduds77"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]

Isn't AI one of the more criticized TLoU aspects?

Rocker6

Wait... are you saying enemies can't see Ellie while sneaking around?

So basically, if you put Joel in cover but Ellie is outside where she can be seen, the enemies won't react?

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

[QUOTE="happyduds77"] ...which are nitpicks. Like the companion not being able to get detected in stealth. But ask yourself this question why should they, an AI can't be flawless, so just because the AI glitched out, the player should be punished?happyduds77

Nothing on PC matches TLOU's gameplay or AI, nothing on PC looks as good either.

-Fanboy words.

Animation is visuals.

Wait... are you saying enemies can't see Ellie while sneaking around?

So basically, if you put Joel in cover but Ellie is outside where she can be seen, the enemies won't react?

Rocker6

Nope AI followers can't be seen. But they do help you. It's a mechanic they went with as it would prevent the AI from getting you killed.

While some times it does look silly... They do a good enough job to act hidden.

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

 

Nothing on PC matches TLOU's gameplay or AI, nothing on PC looks as good either.

 

 

-Fanboy words.

AMD655

Animation is visuals.

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]No, I only said animations and AI, don't try to twist it.

happyduds77

Animation is visuals.

Animation is visual, when you learn what animation is, you may be on the same level of thinking.

Animations as in movements of a character. If you can't comprehend that I don't know what you can.happyduds77

The animations are great... Just so smooth looking.

Melee in the game is just top notch. I watched as my fist punched a guy in the throat and his eye's widened and chocked to death on the ground.

Another guy ran from me while I was chasing him with a board. As I went to bat him in the spine, he turned around and punched me in the noise stunning me as I grasped my face in pain.

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

[QUOTE="happyduds77"] ...which are nitpicks. Like the companion not being able to get detected in stealth. But ask yourself this question why should they, an AI can't be flawless, so just because the AI glitched out, the player should be punished?happyduds77

Nothing on PC matches TLOU's gameplay or AI, nothing on PC looks as good either.

-Fanboy words.

[QUOTE="happyduds77"] Animations as in movements of a character. If you can't comprehend that I don't know what you can.Truth_Hurts_U

The animations are great... Just so smooth looking.

Melee in the game is just top notch. I watched as my fist punched a guy in the throat and his eye's widened and chocked to death on the ground.

Another guy ran from me while I was chasing him with a board. As I went to bat him in the spine, he turned around and punched me in the noise stunning me as I grasped my face in pain.

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

 

Nothing on PC matches TLOU's gameplay or AI, nothing on PC looks as good either.

 

 

-Fanboy words.

faizan_faizan

In my opinion only Red Dead Redemption comes close.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="happyduds77"]No, I only said animations and AI, don't try to twist it.

happyduds77

In my opinion only Red Dead Redemption comes close.

[QUOTE="happyduds77"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] Yea, the animations are pretty good. It's using context sensitive animation system, as it's name implies, the character relies on the surroundings and then makes his/her move. It's not something that has not been done before, but it's definitely not something that a lot of games feature, although it's being featured in a lot of next gen games, I kind of saw it coming, with the new hardware, possibilities are infinite. One thing I did not like about Naughty Dog's game animations were that, they feel too agile and often unrealistic. You would find this in most of their games.faizan_faizan

In my opinion only Red Dead Redemption comes close.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="happyduds77"]Yeah it definitely felt like that when I played the Uncharted games. Some were smooth, but most looked unrealistic, the animations happen too fast, but they were still responsive though. But they improved up on that with The Last Of Us.

In my opinion only Red Dead Redemption comes close.

happyduds77

Stance animation? This is not a fighting game, and that must be the frame rate issue, I never noticed any clunky animations in Max Payne 3. GTA IV though, was the first step forward, GTA V will improve upon it.

[QUOTE="GioVela2010"][QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]

Paying 4x the price of PS4 just to match it and beg for console ports. PC isn't for everyone.

kalipekona

:roll:

All the while you probably still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most console fanboys tend to be kids. And they endlessly troll the PC simply because they don't earn their own money and they know their parents won't buy them more than one console. It's the same reason they bash other consoles, even though those other consoles are so exteremely similar to the console they own.

[QUOTE="kalipekona"]

[QUOTE="GioVela2010"] Lol the life of a hermit, all while living forever alone in ur parents basementgamebreakerz__

:roll:

All the while you probably still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most console fanboys tend to be kids. And they endlessly troll the PC simply because they don't earn their own money and they know their parents won't buy them more than one console. It's the same reason they bash other consoles, even though those other consoles are so exteremely similar to the console they own.

If consoles are 2x the power of equivalent PCs, why aren't the PS3 and 360 pushing 1080p games? Why are many of their games sub-720p?

Oh. What's the date on that tweet?

[QUOTE="mitu123"]*snip images*>faizan_faizan

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="mitu123"]*snip images*>mitu123

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="mitu123"]*snip images*>mitu123

I think the lack of AA and AF really hurt The Last Of Us.

It makes it so even a technically inferior game with a smoother image can look better at times.

Heck Tomb Raider Underworld (from 2008) while technically inferior does this because it is smooth and clean.....on PC.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="happyduds77"]No, I only said animations and AI, don't try to twist it.

happyduds77

In my opinion only Red Dead Redemption comes close.

1.63 T-flops from my 480, yet only 7% behind the flagship 7800 series AMD GPU, this is yet another show of why T-flop performance is useless when testing real world performance.

AMD655

Your 480 was a $500+ dollars GPU top of the line once,the 7800 are mid range at best since day one.

I already kill your whole argument,not to mention that when the PS4 use 5GB of ram for a game your GPU will basically drop performance because if doesn't have the room to run,so games that run on the PS4 fine with 5GB should have pop in,slower frames and even lower resolution,lower res textures and possible draw distance porblems on your card period.

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

1.63 T-flops from my 480, yet only 7% behind the flagship 7800 series AMD GPU, this is yet another show of why T-flop performance is useless when testing real world performance.

tormentos

Your 480 was a $500+ dollars GPU top of the line once,the 7800 are mid range at best since day one.

I already kill your whole argument,not to mention that when the PS4 use 5GB of ram for a game your GPU will basically drop performance because if doesn't have the room to run,so games that run on the PS4 fine with 5GB should have pop in,slower frames and even lower resolution,lower res textures and possible draw distance porblems on your card period.

Shows how brainless you really are.

With a GPU such as the GTX 480 and 7850, the GPU will run out of performance before memory becomes a bottleneck, the 480 has the same bandwidth as a GTX 680 when you push the memory to 4ghz.

Also take note that i can play BF3 on Ultra with 2xMSAA at 2560x1440 with no memory bottleneck.

You do not murder anyone other than yourself trying to sound smart, when all you are is a foolish inexperienced person looking up stuff on the internet, then throwing it around like it is gospel.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]*snip images*>faizan_faizan

PC games sure..

The PS3 has a2005 GPU.

 

Shows how brainless you really are.

 

With a GPU such as the GTX 480 and 7850, the GPU will run out of performance before memory becomes a bottleneck, the 480 has the same bandwidth as a GTX 680 when you push the memory to 4ghz.

 

Also take note that i can play BF3 on Ultra with 2xMSAA at 2560x1440 with no memory bottleneck.

 

 

You do not murder anyone other than yourself trying to sound smart, when all you are is a foolish inexperienced person looking up stuff on the internet, then throwing it around like it is gospel.

AMD655

On your PC yeah on the PS4 not at all,Killzone SF already use 4GB incredible draw distances,port all that code to run on your 480 GTX,and either resolution,frames,image quality or AA had to be lower or drop,because you can't magicall fit 4GB of data into 1.5Gb.

So does the 7850,that doesn't mean more memory will not benefit the game.

You are an idiot that was proved wrong and started a hude damage control your 480 is less powerful than the PS4 and a hell of allot less efficient to.

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

 

Shows how brainless you really are.

 

With a GPU such as the GTX 480 and 7850, the GPU will run out of performance before memory becomes a bottleneck, the 480 has the same bandwidth as a GTX 680 when you push the memory to 4ghz.

 

Also take note that i can play BF3 on Ultra with 2xMSAA at 2560x1440 with no memory bottleneck.

 

 

You do not murder anyone other than yourself trying to sound smart, when all you are is a foolish inexperienced person looking up stuff on the internet, then throwing it around like it is gospel.

tormentos

On your PC yeah on the PS4 not at all,Killzone SF already use 4GB incredible draw distances,port all that code to run on your 480 GTX,and either resolution,frames,image quality or AA had to be lower or drop,because you can't magicall fit 4GB of data into 1.5Gb.

So does the 7850,that doesn't mean more memory will not benefit the game.

You are an idiot that was proved wrong and started a hude damage control your 480 is less powerful than the PS4 and a hell of allot less efficient to.

The 480 is faster than a 7850, why are you pulling this out of your arse?

I am pretty sure you know that the console is all the same set of memory, and yes, it is more efficient, i never stated otherwise, but you blow things out of proportion, what if the 480 had the same Vram?

It would more than likely smack it for six.

You seriously saying a GTX 780 3GB is weaker now because of less Vram?

Delusional

[QUOTE="kalipekona"]

[QUOTE="GioVela2010"] Lol the life of a hermit, all while living forever alone in ur parents basementGioVela2010

:roll:

All the while you probably still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most console fanboys tend to be kids. And they endlessly troll the PC simply because they don't earn their own money and they know their parents won't buy them more than one console. It's the same reason they bash other consoles, even though those other consoles are so exteremely similar to the console they own.

Why would that be impossible for a hermit to do exactly the same as you ?

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

 

Shows how brainless you really are.

 

With a GPU such as the GTX 480 and 7850, the GPU will run out of performance before memory becomes a bottleneck, the 480 has the same bandwidth as a GTX 680 when you push the memory to 4ghz.

 

Also take note that i can play BF3 on Ultra with 2xMSAA at 2560x1440 with no memory bottleneck.

 

 

You do not murder anyone other than yourself trying to sound smart, when all you are is a foolish inexperienced person looking up stuff on the internet, then throwing it around like it is gospel.

AMD655

On your PC yeah on the PS4 not at all,Killzone SF already use 4GB incredible draw distances,port all that code to run on your 480 GTX,and either resolution,frames,image quality or AA had to be lower or drop,because you can't magicall fit 4GB of data into 1.5Gb.

So does the 7850,that doesn't mean more memory will not benefit the game.

You are an idiot that was proved wrong and started a hude damage control your 480 is less powerful than the PS4 and a hell of allot less efficient to.

The 480 is faster than a 7850, why are you pulling this out of your arse?

I am pretty sure you know that the console is all the same set of memory, and yes, it is more efficient, i never stated otherwise, but you blow things out of proportion, what if the 480 had the same Vram?

It would more than likely smack it for six.

You seriously saying a GTX 780 3GB is weaker now because of less Vram?

Delusional

yep, overall GTX 480 is faster

Memory Bandwidth

GTX 480 : 177408 MB/sec

7850 : 153600 MB/sec

Texel Rate ( texture filtering)

GTX 480 :   42000 Mtexels/sec

7850 :  55040 Mtexels/sec

Pixel Rate ( resolution & AA)

GTX 480 : 33600 Mpixels/sec

7850 : 27520 Mpixels/sec

[QUOTE="GioVela2010"][QUOTE="kalipekona"]

:roll:

All the while you probably still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most console fanboys tend to be kids. And they endlessly troll the PC simply because they don't earn their own money and they know their parents won't buy them more than one console. It's the same reason they bash other consoles, even though those other consoles are so exteremely similar to the console they own.

Bebi_vegeta

Why would that be impossible for a hermit to do exactly the same as you ?

It will take 5 years for consoles to relatively and visually match a 3.68 TFLOP PC GPU.  And "optimization" to me means anything from dedicated code to metal programming to heavy LOD management.  The LOD management in console games is typically really awful and noticeable, which doesn't translate in comparison screenshots like it does in actual high res game footage.  This coming generation will benefit from flexible tessellation which should mitigate noticeable LOD changes on many game objects, especially high polygon characters and detailed models.  

The Assassin's Creed games come to mind when I think of horrid LOD pop-in.  Bleh.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="GioVela2010"] I'm married, own a house, own a business, have a son and a daughter. Try againGioVela2010

Why would that be impossible for a hermit to do exactly the same as you ?

Your the one who seems to think so, I bet Bill Gates wasn't a hermit at all.