JRPGs could be so much better if they'd follow Pokemon's design.

By no means am I calling Pokemon the best RPG ever (as its combat is way to minimalistic), but its design is the antithesis of games like FFXIII. It has an expansive world with a non-linear design, lots of secrets, lots of exploration. It is a JRPG in which the gameplay outside of the combat is actually interesting. Its is overflowing with things to do.

Now before I'm bombarded with comments about how rehashed Pokemon is, let me just say that I agree. They need to breath new life into the franchise and come up with some new Pokemon that don't look like ass. Its getting stale by now. But I'm just talking about the overall design of the game. Just think of how cool a game that took Pokemon's world design and put a rewarding combat system into it and included a richer story would be. I literally dream about a Pokemon on consoles that has a deep combat system.

Xenogears looks like it is trying to achieve an expansive world design, but JRPGs too often take the linear route. Designing JRPGs in the vein of Pokemon could only be a good thing IMO.

I kind of agree, but I think the example is broad and just kind of odd. I mean Tales of Symphonia fits all the descriptions for the good things you listed, so pokemon isnt really THE example, its A example.

I kind of agree, but I think the example is broad and just kind of odd. I mean Tales of Symphonia fits all the descriptions for the good things you listed, so pokemon isnt really THE example, its A example.

NaveedLife

I'm not saying its the only game that does these things (never played a Tales game). I just think its a great game design that should be emulated and expanded upon.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I kind of agree, but I think the example is broad and just kind of odd. I mean Tales of Symphonia fits all the descriptions for the good things you listed, so pokemon isnt really THE example, its A example.

GreySeal9

I'm not saying its the only game that does these things (never played a Tales game). I just think its a great game design that should be emulated and expanded upon.

They could improve combat....

The I stand still, you hit me. Then you stand still and I hit you. 90s turnbased combat is extremely dated on consoles.

Pokemon is one of the games that can still pull it off, and a big part of that is its a handheld.

JRPGs need to move into more modern systems like Valkyria chronicles and Resonance of fate did.

So what about the people that enjoy linear RPGs? I guess their just left out of this?

For this gen Golden sun, tales of vesperia, Blue Dragon, and Lost Odyssey are like that. All starts off linear though. there are probably many more but this is all i can think of/played.too_much_eslim

I'd disagree about Lost Odyssey. I think it has more it common with FF games than Pokemon in terms of its design.

They could improve combat....

The I stand still, you hit me. Then you stand still and I hit you. 90s turnbased combat is extremely dated on consoles.

Pokemon is one of the games that can still pull it off, and a big part of that is its a handheld.

JRPGs need to move into more modern systems like Valkyria chronicles and Resonance of fate did.

dercoo

So what about the people that enjoy linear RPGs? I guess their just left out here?

Yangire

I'm not advocating that linear RPGs should be done away with. I'm just saying that there should be more RPGs out there that do the Pokemon world design style.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"]For this gen Golden sun, tales of vesperia, Blue Dragon, and Lost Odyssey are like that. All starts off linear though. there are probably many more but this is all i can think of/played.GreySeal9

I'd disagree about Lost Odyssey. I think it has more it common with FF games than Pokemon in terms of its design.

lolwut? Pokemon is very linear and offers no expansive world unless you learn HM SURF/FLY/CUT which you can only get by beating that local gym badge leader in the fashion the game sees fit......Led_poison

Its story progression is linear. The world design is not.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I kind of agree, but I think the example is broad and just kind of odd. I mean Tales of Symphonia fits all the descriptions for the good things you listed, so pokemon isnt really THE example, its A example.

too_much_eslim

I'm not saying its the only game that does these things (never played a Tales game). I just think its a great game design that should be emulated and expanded upon.

But if you're listing games like LO, I don't we'd agree on your choices as to what games are designed like Pokemon.

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

They could improve combat....

The I stand still, you hit me. Then you stand still and I hit you. 90s turnbased combat is extremely dated on consoles.

Pokemon is one of the games that can still pull it off, and a big part of that is its a handheld.

JRPGs need to move into more modern systems like Valkyria chronicles and Resonance of fate did.

too_much_eslim

Tales of Symphonia and Baten Kaitos FTW :). I wish I could play Xenoblade (oops this is monolish soft only) :cry:

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

They could improve combat....

The I stand still, you hit me. Then you stand still and I hit you. 90s turnbased combat is extremely dated on consoles.

Pokemon is one of the games that can still pull it off, and a big part of that is its a handheld.

JRPGs need to move into more modern systems like Valkyria chronicles and Resonance of fate did.

too_much_eslim

1. Tales of vesperia is only on the PS3 in Japan, can't play.:evil:

2. Resonance of fate is a tri ace game.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I'm not saying its the only game that does these things (never played a Tales game). I just think its a great game design that should be emulated and expanded upon.

GreySeal9

But if you're listing games like LO, I don't we'd agree on your choices as to what games are designed like Pokemon.

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]lolwut? Pokemon is very linear and offers no expansive world unless you learn HM SURF/FLY/CUT which you can only get by beating that local gym badge leader in the fashion the game sees fit......GreySeal9

Its story progression is linear. The world design is not.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"][QUOTE="dercoo"]

They could improve combat....

The I stand still, you hit me. Then you stand still and I hit you. 90s turnbased combat is extremely dated on consoles.

Pokemon is one of the games that can still pull it off, and a big part of that is its a handheld.

JRPGs need to move into more modern systems like Valkyria chronicles and Resonance of fate did.

dercoo

1. Tales of vesperia is only on the PS3 in Japan, can't play.:evil:

2. Resonance of fate is a tri ace game.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]lolwut? Pokemon is very linear and offers no expansive world unless you learn HM SURF/FLY/CUT which you can only get by beating that local gym badge leader in the fashion the game sees fit......Led_poison

Its story progression is linear. The world design is not.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]lolwut? Pokemon is very linear and offers no expansive world unless you learn HM SURF/FLY/CUT which you can only get by beating that local gym badge leader in the fashion the game sees fit......Led_poison

Its story progression is linear. The world design is not.

Being locked off from a zone/=/linearity. It is something of a linear concept, but its mere presence does not actually make the world linear. It makes the gameplay/story progression linear.

The world is non-linear in that it is not structured in a straight-forward way like a Final Fantasy game. There are lots of different pathways, its more "expansive" than "line-like", some parts of it are labyrinithian, there are lots of secret rooms, and everything just comes together in a way to make the world feel vast rather than claustrophobic.

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"] Have you played a tales game or a tri Ace game?too_much_eslim

1. Tales of vesperia is only on the PS3 in Japan, can't play.:evil:

2. Resonance of fate is a tri ace game.

Honestly how is that game? I don't know if I would love it or hate it. I only played a bit of it on the 360 when my friend had it. I also am skeptical about RoF. And in terms of the topic, ReF seems really bad in that its little octagons (whatever they are) that you go to for the world map, which turns me off greatly. I love exploration and thats also why I am not interested in Valkyria chronicles, because it just looks really linear and boring.

Basically Skies of Arcadia destroys all of these games in this area. Man I want a part 2.too_much_eslim

Skies of Arcadia is a great example and is easily my favorite JRPG of all time. But I think that Pokemon, though inferior to it, offers more to do.

I think that Pokemon and SoA have more in common than LO and Pokemon do. Like I said, I think LO has more in common with FF.

Basically Skies of Arcadia destroys all of these games in this area. Man I want a part 2.too_much_eslim

SoA is awesome! I remember having so much fun with this game. Until I saved it right at a boss and it was impossible for me to beat him so all my work on that profile (over 20 hours) was for nothing :(.

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"] Have you played a tales game or a tri Ace game?too_much_eslim

1. Tales of vesperia is only on the PS3 in Japan, can't play.:evil:

2. Resonance of fate is a tri ace game.

Plan on getting it after finishing some other games.:P

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"][QUOTE="dercoo"]

1. Tales of vesperia is only on the PS3 in Japan, can't play.:evil:

2. Resonance of fate is a tri ace game.

NaveedLife

Honestly how is that game? I don't know if I would love it or hate it. I only played a bit of it on the 360 when my friend had it. I also am skeptical about RoF. And in terms of the topic, ReF seems really bad in that its little octagons (whatever they are) that you go to for the world map, which turns me off greatly. I love exploration and thats also why I am not interested in Valkyria chronicles, because it just looks really linear and boring.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"]Basically Skies of Arcadia destroys all of these games in this area. Man I want a part 2.GreySeal9

Skies of Arcadia is a great example and is easily my favorite JRPG of all time. But I think that Pokemon, though inferior to it, offers more to do.

I think that Pokemon and SoA have more in common than LO and Pokemon do. Like I said, I think LO has more in common with FF.

What a horrible poll :|

What a horrible poll :|

anshul89

Well, everybody that voted in the poll voted that this is a great thread, so it stands to reason that the poll is great as well.

So... combination of linear and non-linear? well, umm, duh? Not to mention a lot of JRPGs (if not most) does that anyway.funsohng

I don't think other recent JRPGS do it in close to the way that Pokemon does.

But it's really hard to explain what makes Pokemon's world design different. It just feels like one huge seamless world filled with secrets areas and stuff to do whereas other JRPG worlds feel smaller for some reason.

[QUOTE="anshul89"]

What a horrible poll :|

GreySeal9

Well, everybody that voted in the poll voted that this is a great thread, so it stands to reason that the poll is great as well.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="anshul89"]

What a horrible poll :|

anshul89

Well, everybody that voted in the poll voted that this is a great thread, so it stands to reason that the poll is great as well.

Why would I try the opposite? It is a fact that this is a great thread (probably the greatest thread to ever be made in system wars) and so my poll only deals in facts. It is not a question of whether this thread is great but how great, so putting a negative poll option would be counter productive.

[QUOTE="Led_poison"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Its story progression is linear. The world design is not.

GreySeal9

Being locked off from a zone/=/linearity. It is something of a linear concept, but its mere presence does not actually make the world linear. It makes the gameplay/story progression linear.

The world is non-linear in that it is not structured in a straight-forward way like a Final Fantasy game. There are lots of different pathways, its more "expansive" than "line-like", some parts of it are labyrinithian, there are lots of secret rooms, and everything just comes together in a way to make the world feel vast rather than claustrophobic.

Final Fantasy 13 had paths that led off to items and secret boss battles , so therefore it's not linear? Poke'mon just isn't expansive at all, you just go from point A to point B get the new HM and off you go. And even if the game does have 'labyrinithian' parts it's just a chore navigating your way through, I'm always itching to get the hell out of there.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Led_poison"] No the world design is linear aswell, as you are blocked off in a zone until you unlock an event ie beat the gym leader/beat local gang etc. etc. allthatdown

Being locked off from a zone/=/linearity. It is something of a linear concept, but its mere presence does not actually make the world linear. It makes the gameplay/story progression linear.

The world is non-linear in that it is not structured in a straight-forward way like a Final Fantasy game. There are lots of different pathways, its more "expansive" than "line-like", some parts of it are labyrinithian, there are lots of secret rooms, and everything just comes together in a way to make the world feel vast rather than claustrophobic.

Final Fantasy 13 had paths that led off to items and secret boss battles , so therefore it's not linear? Poke'mon just isn't expansive at all, you just go from point A to point B get the new HM and off you go. And even if the game does have 'labyrinithian' parts it's just a chore navigating your way through, I'm always itching to get the hell out of there.

It didn't say those elements=non-linearity. FFXIII pathways were extreely line-like and most of the game's world was design in that way, so the game is not non-linear in any context. Pokemon doesn't have line-like environments. It's environmental design is exactly the opposite of FFXIII's. Even the roads in Pokemon are not straight-up lines. They are much more like real road, winding and having may more "off course" areas than FFXIII.

I agree, which is why Pokemon is one of my favorite RPG series ever.

Pokemon is actually a very linear game.vashkey

Like I said, it does have a linear progression, but it doesn't have a linear world.

And it's not very linear in comparison with other JRPGs.

So what about the people that enjoy linear RPGs? I guess their just left out of this?

Yangire

I don't agree. I like games like FF13 as they are, and FOR SURE didn't vote.IceBlazerX

Why didn't you vote? I gave you a lot of options to choose from. :(

Don't you think your poll is a little one-sided? :P I agree to an extent though.

I think too many people judge JRPGs exclusively off of FF13. It wasn't a terrific game, but it was still good. I agree that JRPGs in general should give more room to exploration (like a world map), but there's been plenty of great JRPGs this gen.

Excellent point, bravo! Because Pokemon is just Shin Megami Tensei (or Megami Tensei) which has a lot of the same ideas a pokemon, but with a proper plot and such. :) 110million

What console is that game on?

Don't you think your poll is a little one-sided? :P I agree to an extent though.

StealthMonkey4

I'm sure everyone will be able to find a choice that suits them. :P

I wish there was a Pokemon on consoles. The ones on consoles are nothing like the handheld versions. I think it would be cool to play it on a console, on a big screen instead of looking at some 4" screen..