JRPGs that avoid most of genre's cliches

I realize that the attachment to the most regurgitated tropes is what makes a JRPG a JRPG in the first place. However, I'm beyond confident that there are exceptions to this trend, though. Could one of them be The Last Remnant?

A couple of weeks ago I stumbled upon an interesting and critical discussion on JRPGs. One person pointed out The Last Remnant as a stand-out exception on numerous levels. The details now are kind of fuzzy in my head, so I won't be able to recall anything in particular, but I remember some very strong arguments said with much conviction. Anyhow, I do remember the time in which The Last Remnant was released and it received mixed reception. However, I'm now certain that this game enjoys a revisionist rediscovery of sorts. I'd be most interested to hear about it from you, warriors.

Is it really that different from most JRPGs? And what does set it apart from the usual bunch? I'd be especially interested in opinions of people who have played or replayed it quite recently with a fresh, open mindset.

Can you name any other JRPGs that eschew most of its cliches on mechanical, "weeaboo" and "animu" levels?

1. Goldensun - I would say the storytelling in goldensun is how people in the west would tell a story. There's really not one thing about Goldensun that makes it super cliché and tedious that I can think of. It takes typical rpg mechanics but the story is developed and the way you use spells to cross the map are creative.
2. Super Mario RPG - Same mechanics as some other rpgs but not exactly weaboo for obvious reasons (I mean its Mario).
3. Final Fantasy Tactics - Focuses on tactics rather than story conversations, not very similar to other Final Fantasies in that regard. The tactics games stories tend to be weak but gameplay is strong.
4. Nocturne - Storytelling is somewhat Japanese but it throws you right into the action, no cheesy lines... Morbid. Its just not focused on the animation/anime aspects that other Japanese rpgs are focused on. The game heavily focuses on buffs/debuffs/weaknesses and its hard to get through unless you plan ahead. Be prepared to throw your controller out the window. Even with grinding the game will be a hardass.
5. Digital Devil Saga - Similar to Nocturne except not as difficult.

Persona is kind of eh around Persona 3 & 4 as far as clichés go, especially since they're games people model after because of their success.

I'm gonna take wild guess, I haven't played Earthbound but I imagine some people would list it.

JRPGs are not confined to the ideals of ignorant and closed minded points of view of outside western definitions like posters on SW make up but to the limits of Japanese dev imagination.

Once arrogant western gamers understand this simple concept the easier it will be to accept the wide and varying direction of Japanese game creation.

+1

Shadow hearts i enjoyed the dark atmosphere of that game + the game setting and WW1 Europe era.

The English localization of the Persona series avoids the traditionally awful localization of JRPGs to English speaking regions... well, at least for P3/4.

@casharmy: Nope. I played plenty of them and many are full of cliches. JRPG's are the japanese counterpart to broshooters except rhey are in general much better.

Mother series

Isn't Persona a walking cliche alone because it looks like this?

@shawty_beatz said:

@shadowchronicle said:

Persona is kind of eh around Persona 3 & 4 as far as clichés go, especially since they're games people model after because of their success.

Isn't Persona a walking cliche alone because it looks like this?

Persona is a subversion of cliches- it basically takes things that would be cliched and then subverts them to create something decidedly not cliche. The only few accusations of cliche that can be leveled at the Persona games come from the fact that most games in Japan now directly lift from Persona in some form or another.

Xenoblade is a good one. You play as just a regular dude who has to help other regular dudes.

Plenty of jRPGs avoid typical jRPG cliches.

Evasion,

• Super Mario RPGs
• Dragons Dogma
• Souls
• Shin Megami Tensei: 1, 2, Nocturne, Strange Journey
• The Dark Spire (Playing more like a 1980s wRPG than a jRPG)
• Elminage (see Dark Spire)
• Elona (Taking more queues from Ancient Domains Of Mystery than it does any jRPG, nowhere near ADOM's calibre however, but still worth mentioning)

Subversion

• Persona
• Mother series and Earthbound
• Undertale
• Recettear

Maybe...

• Pokemon?

I am sure @Jag85 can bring up a more comprehensive list than me. But this should hopefully be a good start.

Wild Arms 3

Souls Games.

Yup.

Panzer Dragoon Saga. It's not a story about coming of age, friendship, love triangles, or any other anime trope. Instead, it's about you and your dragon, and initially, seeking revenge for the slaughter of your scavenger unit. The gameplay is also unlike any other jrpg, because it's tactical, yet fast, like an arcade game, and there is neither any filler or required grinding. There is so much more to it that makes Saga special, but all these reasons are why I value it so highly, unlike so many other games in this genre.

The vast majority of JRPG that makes its way to this side of the world is cliched to the point of nausea. Its funny some people are trying to claim to the contrary. You only need to speed 30 minutes in the game and you can plot out the entire story and direction of the game.

Really. So you opinion is greater than someone else opinion. Hmmm standard system wars fodder.

This is actually a great list. I'll add to it:

EVASION:

• Dark Souls
• Super Mario RPG
• Dragon's Dogma
• Shin Megami Tensei
• Wild Arms
• Pokemon
• Etrian Odyssey
• Xenogears
• Xenosaga
• Xenoblade

SUBVERSION:

• Persona (this is a textbook case)
• The World Ends With You
• Earthbound
• Chrono Trigger
• Golden Sun
• Radiant Historia

Is Undertale a JRPG?

I don't think undertale should count if souls is on the same list. Souls is definitely wrpg oriented but its on the list because its made by Japanese developers, undertale is not but I imagine it is more jrpg oriented.

They kind of contradict each other so its either one or the other.

Souls isn't really western oriented since it's heavily inspired by Berserk.

Dark Fantasy isn't exclusive to the west.

Its the way the game plays and the theme. Many would argue it plays more like a western rpg than a Japanese rpg. The same also goes for Dragon's Dogma which also plays more like a western game.

Beserk is also not the first thing that comes to mind when people think of Japanese comics & video games.

They're jrpgs but that's because their developers are Japanese.

LISA, although I think it was technically developed in the west. But it's mechanically very similar to most old school JRPGs and has a terrific atmosphere and story unlike anything else out there.

Cliche is not an opinion. I am sorry you did not know that. Also stop flattering me with my own words, even if you don't know when to use them.

Where would Valkyria Chronicle and Disgaea be in? I don't get the Evasion and Subversion.

Nope because JRPGs are defined by having manly girs/girly men, PS2 graphics and 90's gameplay.

This topic is going to deliver, I know it.

Such a bitter lil fella, aren't ya? ;)

Considering that Disgaea wears the jRPG tropes with a sleeve. Disgaea counts as more cliche game.

Evasion is the avoidance of tropes. Or that the tropes are followed so loosely that I didnt notice them.

Subversion is the usage of tropes, but the way the tropes are used differs greatly. Planescape: Torment, is the textbook case for subversions as far as gaming is concerned. Earthbound is also a parody, but it also did it much more subversively than Disgaea. Taking it in a more modern setting, and adapting it with urban folklore, pop culture and (then) recent events. Parapsychology taking the place of magic, everyday items replacing swords, armor and bows, demons and dragons replaced with hippies, gangsters, corrupt corporations, terrorists and aliens.

Ok, so Disgaea is neither, or Subverion cause it parodies the tropes?

And are we talking about gameplay or story or something else?

Translation: Why don't you dirty yanks understand our games! >:(

Also I like Bloodborne btw...

Parodying alone doesnt make it a subversion. Its neither.

We are talking about anything, be it story and gameplay. And neither the gameplay or the story in Disgaea is enough to be either.

Valkryia CHronicles does enough to stand out however. The gameplay cant really be compared to any other jRPG. Simply due to its mechanics. The story took a turn towards genericville with VC2 however. And the Valkyrur were kinda generic too in VC1 as well.

I believe there are many JRPGs that play like some WRPGS and western MMOs. The thing that distinguishes JRPGs from WRPGs is them being animeish; grittiness isn't an exclusive theme. What makes people confuse those things is ignorance, really.

And the same could be said about Berserk but no one goes around saying it's a western comic, do they?

Maybe its just me but:

Japanese RPGs tend to be more linear and turned based while WRPGs tend to be roam and swing your sword while leveling up which is what Dark Souls and Dogma focuses on.

If Dark Souls was turn based with the same grittiness it would be different though.

Like I said its because the developers are Japanese that it becomes a JRPG. The mechanics and gameplay of Dark Souls leans towards western gameplay style. Grittiness is definitely not an exclusive theme but that isn't quite the whole story, can you name a bunch of JRPGs like dark souls like you could with Persona? Probably not.

Its not turn based like 90% of the JRPGs listed in this thread which is what defines most JRPGs from WRPGs.

Games like Xenoblade would be considered WRPGs in essence if we went by that logic.

Them being exceptions to the rule doesn't make them WRPGs in essence.

How would you define a JRPG then? I agree that Dark Souls is a JRPG but it still doesn't change that it contains more elements that are more often seen with WRPGs than JRPGs. I can guarantee you that if the developer was unknown most people would think the game is developed by a non Japanese developer. There is a reason why people call WRPGs western role playing games and JRPGS Japanese role playing games. You will always find exceptions on each side but its quite obvious which ones are the outliers in that regards and Dark Souls is definitely one of them. It shows more characteristics of a wrpg: realism, action-oriented, and free roaming. Something that does not occur often in JRPGs.

What makes Dark Souls a JRPG considering game elements? Not very many.

Dark Souls has more in common with The Witcher, Mass Effect, and Skyrim than it does Xenoblade arguably. Xenoblade is obviously made by a Japanese developer: things like theme, culture, the fact that xenoblade is part of the xeno metaseries makes it a jrpg easily. Also Xenoblade is more like Radiata stories and the Tales games with more roaming from what I've seen.

My point is that there are some games that are WRPGs that have mechanics and themes that a JRPG would have and vice versa but they will still stay in their own genre because of their developer. You can't deny that the gameplay style for each genre is obvious. You would never argue that most JRPGs have realism but you can argue that most WRPGs have realism (to an extent) because of the way most of them are designed.

What I said about Undertale is that putting Dark Souls & Undertale takes away the meaning of a JRPG and we're going by the elements of the game and not the developer. In that case Dark Souls is obviously a WRPG for obvious reasons.

To put it simple, Dark Souls is a JRPG taking inspiration from JRPGs.

For the whole "are JRPGs as separate genre?" argument watch these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rvM6hubs8 part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8aiEsIW9IM part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmkdoz5LjdE part 3

The Last Remnant was one of the best games of last gen, imo. It falls under most of the JRPG cliches, but it has a battle system unlike anything else that I've ever played. You just about have to consult a guide to figure out how to gear up your character, what to tell other characters and set formations because the game gives little to no guidance there, but once you figure it out, it's great. Get the PC version, though. The 360 version doesn't allow for the faster battle speed, and even with the faster speed, some boss fights can take nearly an hour.