Killing Floor 2 dev: The X1X is not powerful enough.

Like I said, because the OneX is a much more powerful console, and to make it more easily distinguishable for the consumer he called the OneX a True 4K console, because it's much more powerful... Just saying that it's more powerful doesn't work with consumers, that doesn't just stick. PS4 was able to do 1080p practically ALWAYS, while Xbox One wasn't. That stuck. Therefore now Microsoft is doing the same saying the OneX is much more powerful because it does True 4K. Does this mean that every game will run in 4K? No. But more than will be the case for the Pro, and that's all that matters marketing wise.

@FastRobby: "Like I said, because the OneX is a much more powerful console, and to make it more easily distinguishable for the consumer he called the OneX a True 4K console,"

So now you're saying that the definition of True 4k just means "more powerful than the Pro". You people are really a walking joke, you realize you're spinning so much that you're now trying to come up with your own language and changing the definition of the term everytime you post? This is way beyond hypocritical, it's pathetic. No wonder MS makes it look so easy to deceive you.

So all this back and forth arguing just to state the fact of best console version of the game will be on X1X, if you want the best version of the game play it on PC. Which will be the fact for pretty much every game. Downfall is everyone is system wars has a PC that blows the X1X out of the water so X1X is irrelevant here???

Learn to read, that's not what I said at all. If you're just going to be twisting words, then the discussion is over.

@FastRobby:

"he called the OneX a True 4K console, because it's much more powerful"

I'm quoting you exactly like you said it. You're saying Spencer called the OneX True 4k because it's more powerful than the Pro so that HAS to mean that True 4k means being more powerful than the PS4 Pro since Spencer also called the Pro not True 4k. How are you going to spin the thing that you just wrote lemming? don't be such a hypocrite if you don't want to be called out then.

Remember this is a HUUUUGGGEEEEE difference between 720p and 1080p hypocrite. All cows cared about for 4 years is the power difference touting the most powerful console ever created. The most powerful console will be the Scorpio and suddenly graphics and power you don't care about.

Funny how that works huh El tormented....all cows are hypocrites

Hahahahahaaa man you are a joke and seeing you dance around the question asked to you is lol worthy..

The xbox one X is 43% more powerful period power come from the GPU inside the xbox one X the CPU is 10% faster but is nothing the PS4 hasn't deal with already,and 10% more CPU with 43% more GPU is not quite a balance upgrade.

The PS4 is 40% over the xbox one and you lemmings since 2013 had been saying the difference can barely be see,and you lemmings acted as if it was nothing,and now all of the sudden 43% which is 3% more than the gap between the xbox and PS4 some how is MUCH MORE powerful..lol

No he called the xbox one X true 4k because they wanted to portrait the consoles as this beats that didn't need to sacrifice anything to achieve 4k,in fact there is a video where they openly claim 4k and then say 60FPS WITHOUT COMPROMISES.

Fact is they fail both.

No that is not what MS is doing,which is why they damage control the true 4k crap by using a definition of what they believe it is 4k,in fact the xbox one X has more games under 4k than those the PS4 had under 1080p in 2013.

The PS4 had just 1 game that was 900p on launch BF4,the xbox one has several games already below 4k using dynamic resolution or checkerboard,it is a fact the Xbox one X is less of a 4k machine than the PS4 was a 1080p machine,and i am sure that the more we walk into next coming years the more the xbox one X will fall under 4k,way more times than the PS4 fell under 1080p it is already beating the PS4 with more games under true 4k,the PS4 had only 1 game at 900p on launch and the bast majority of its games are 1080p.

Is even more fun seeing hide under the fact that MS allow developer do what they want with the power of the xbox one X that was the case for the xbox 360,PS3,PS4 xbox and PS4 pro and on PC as well,developers have the option to use power as they seen fit,that doesn't mean that when a developer chose sub 4k over 4k it does so because it wants to rather than because the xbox one X can't reach it without sacrifices which is the case here as the developer it self state that at 4k the xbox one X just has to big of a substantial drop frame wise in other words is probably unplayable at 4k.

Yeah you need to quote me saying that there is no difference between 4k and 1440p or 1800p,because unlike you hypocrite i never claimed that,there is a difference between 1440p,1800p and true 4k.

And unlike lemmings i am not here claiming other wise,so go ahead quote me.

Because i have quote you lemmings damage controlling 720p i did quote you..hahahahaa

The problem is now in lemmings hads is how you attack 1800p or 1440p when you defend 720p..lol

The gap in pixels is astronomical from 720p to 1440p or 1800p,so if 720p was ok and great for you lemmings 1440p and 1800p should be the greatest thing ever....hahahahaa

Oh look its crying about the last 4 years,when lemmings have 2 generation in a row from 2001 to 2013 hyping superior versions and making seen like from 720p to 640p there was a huge gap when the game in question was GTA4 or Red Dead redemption,but could not see the difference between 1080p and 720p in 2013..hahahahahaahaa

Quote me downplaying 4k as been the same as 1440p or 1800p...lol

Cause there is nothing to say about a Bone.

No games, no sales, no nothing.

I just think you're not understanding what I'm saying, so I'll ask you to re-read my comments on this topic.

I don't need to quote you saying anything el tormented. You and your fellow cows crowed about the power difference between the PS4 and X1 talking about how HUUUGGEE the difference is between the 720/900p and 1080p(as if most PS4 games ran at 1080p). Suddenly the power doesn't matter and neither does the difference between the Pro and Scorpio.

You can quote me all you want because all I'm doing is throwing your own logic(or lack of) right back into your face. I don't care about power but I find it hilarious how all of a sudden you cows don't either.

So now you're playing the victim? Cows were bashing the Xbox and 360 a year prior to launching. Cows deserved all the shit talking from lems.

You mistake me for someone like you el tormented. I wouldn't waste my time trying to find a quote because I really don't care. I respond and read SWs because I can sit in my office work while doing it. You take this site like it's your life which is sad.

Answer this. What is your definition of True 4k and what is the definition MS were using when claiming the Pro was not True 4k but the X1X was. Do you think that definition is correct?

The PS4 Pro is what runs at "higher pc settings" not the standard PS4. The PS4 also doesn't use ultra textures like the pro. The Xbox One version will not use high pc settings or ultra textures either. In any case, the point is that the Xbox One X, even if the settings are at high with utra textures, has to run sub 4K to hold decent framerates, while the GTX 1070 can run 4K high-ultra at an average of 50 FPS. Therefore, these One X comparisons to high end GPUs need to go away.

So is nya back?

I can't believe some people are still trying to argue about this. the X1X obviously crushes the PS4 Pro specs wise and at the same time its clearly not a true 4k console and that was a bunch of bullshit.

@Zero_epyon: He was for a little bit. Might have already got the axe again. Poor dude.

It is just far too simple a task these days to make lems lose their minds.

It's far to simple a task these days for make cows lose their minds. All one needs to do is mention Scorpio and most powerful console ever. You then get cows creating numerous threads per day downplaying the power difference and showing just how butthurt MS made them.

Tooooooo easy

I've been busy lately and not visiting often enough. But it was pretty obvious.

Seriously. If the guy would just calm down and maybe use a different sentence structure, he might fly under the radar.

He was back during E3 and i think he made it through a few hundred posts

@drlostrib: After that too, caught him after one post

Yeah. Every once in a while he squeaks through for a bit. I think the mods feel sorry for him, and let him stick around sometimes. But in the end he always gets the boot.

I remember that. It was obvious then too but he managed to keep it civil at the beginning.

The question is, why do so many people, and even devs, believe that X1X is capable of native 4k on all current gen games, when the hardware is clearly not powerful enough?

I know very little about hardware, yet have been telling you guys that it is too early for 4k to become standard. X1X is nice, but it's not 4x more powerful than a PS4, let alonea generational jump.

Oh yes you do since you are the one crying about it.

Quote me saying power doesn't matter or that the difference is small i dare you,oh wait you can't and that is the real difference i can quote you damage controlling 720p and now riding Scorpio and 4k which is a 180 MS style..

I on the other hand stick to my argument,power does matter and there is a gap between the xbox one X and Pro that is undeniable,and nothing will change that unlike you lemmings i have some dignity so no you will not see me hold tied to FP16 or some magic API or thunders and clouds to claim the Pro some how will catch up like you lemmings did with DX12 the cloud and that crap.

No you are not throwing my logic there is a 43% gap between the xbox one X and PS4 Pro which is considerable and 3% bigger than the gap between the PS4 and xbox one which you HYPOCRITE did pretend it was nothing..lol

WTF do you want me to quote the tons of thread where you lemmings claim the xbox had superior port before this gen started?

Please have some dignity lemming you damage controlled 720p so yeah have a nice time downplaying 1440p and 1800p while you have post downplaying the gap between 720p and 1080p...hahahahaa

Quote me downplaying 4k over 1800p and 1440p or you have nothing lemming..lol

Because in reality it all depends on the game and what the devs actually want players to experience. Any game can run on 4K on PS4 Pro and X1X if the settings are tuned right or compromises made. The problem is that sometimes the compromises aren't worth it, in this case, the framerate would be too low. For other devs, the X1X is perfect for their needs because their game performs to their expectations even at 4K. Most people, including lems, should have understood that since it was announced, but they set unrealistic expectations from it (4k/60 Ultra settings).

Less powerful than a $400 GPU means we should downplay more powerful than a $250-350 GPU?

That is precisely the case. Lems created this mess with their over-hyping of the X1X just as much as MS themselves created their own mess by over-hyping the X1X. If people had just been realistic about their expectations there would not be all of this lemming damage control going on.

Who's downplaying? If you tell me Xbox One X is in the same class as an RX580 or close to a GTX 1060, I wouldn't really argue. But it's no 1070/1080.

@Zero_epyon:

I'd say there's plenty of damage control from hermits and cows. X1X relative GPU power is probably the most popular topic on SW.

I will not be surprised if the X1X can achieve GTX 1070-level performance in multiple titles over it's lifespan. Also, I won't be surprised if most titles end up around GTX 1060/RX 580 OC performance. It will be relative to developer investment.

P.S.- Most of these random titles are irrelevant to the discussion. Forza, Gears, TW3, and DOOM will be much better for comparisons.

Cows get sent back to the pasture. I'd be pissed if I bought a stack of pancakes that can be heard across the street with no real payout. I mean come on, some games run worse on the PRO than the slim. Now that is rekt.

lol yeah because a RX580 with more bandwidth will beat a 1070gtx or match it..

The xbox one is a 7770 with more bandwidth and nothing changed regardless of having 5 times more video memory and almost double the bandwidth,bandwidth without power is useless.

Yeah MS games are much better for comparison when they are screw up on PC,like F6 that stress only 2 CPU cores holding back stronger GPU or like Quantum Break that runs faster on steam in windows 7 and DX11 than on DX12 on windows 10.

I'll address this point only since the rest of your statement is damage control.

RX 480(That's what a 580 is) does not have memory pipeline customization like X1X. It's has lower memory bandwidth which is even more crippled than what plain numbers represent. Despite having an apparent max of 2250MHz mem, Polaris 10 in general will experience performance degradation past 2100MHz(8400MHz).

P.S.- Your "beat a 1070gtx" strawman has nothing to do with what I said.

Sure lemming.

The RX580 has DCC like the x1x but unlike the x1x it doesn't share its bandwidth so it effectively has a more than 300GB/s for it self since DCC adds like 35%,the x1x also has dcc but has a single memory structure like the PS4 which means it has the same pitfalls,cpu eating bandwidth disproportionally.

The xbox one x is POLARIS with some Vega features that no one knows which are since MS never confirm them,they talked about command processor modification which again also was on xbox one so that wasn't it.

Fact is the xbox one has double the bandwidth of a 7770 which has 72GB,s and 5 times as much video memory,doesn't stop the xbox one from been beaten by the 7770 in many games.

So giving more bandwidth to a 6TF polaris would not transform it into a 1070 in any way..

And no MS games are not a good way to measure performance because MS games on PC suck ass performance wise since they are built from the ground up for the xbox one,worse Forza is no benchmark is a quite mediocre looking game that has hit 1080p 60FPS on xbox one when other games could not even achieve 900p the sacrifices done to achieve it were many...

And to think this game on PS4 doesn't even have a Pro patch.

1. False with 300 GBps claim for RX-580. GDDR5 is not on-chip SRAM with very low latency.

The graph was from Techreport and Beyond3D benchmark suite.

194 GBps real physical effective memory bandwidth / 256 GBps theoretical effective memory bandwidth = 75.7 percent efficient. Polaris DCC recovers the lost memory bandwidth with 36 percent memory compression boost.

RX-480's 75.7 percent memory bandwidth efficient before Polaris DCC being applied is similar to PS4's efficiency.

RX-480 still interacts with data being copied from system memory which has up to 16 GBps from PCI-E version 3.0 16X interface.

I welcome your counter GPU memory bandwidth benchmark.

RX-580 is just silicon re-spin and renamed "Polaris 10 XT" and marked with "Polaris 20 XT".

Some RX-480 8 GB can be BIOS flashed into RX-580 8 GB LOL. http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-480-can-upgraded-rx-580-bios-flash/

Both RX-580 8 GB and RX-480 8 GB has similar 256 bit GDDR5-8000 memory setup. Non-reference RX-480 OC with 1306Mhz is already RX-580 level.

This RX-580 version has slightly overclocked memory controller to yield 268 Gbps from it's GDDR5-8xx0, hence why you see some uplift with RX-580.

The above GPU-Z screenshot was from RX-480 OC and BIOS flashed into RX-580 OC.

Never change Ron...

Lol. Still failing to read before opening your mouth.

I have the RX 480 and in alignment with multiple tech sites RX 480/580 have performance REDUCTION past 2100MHz. 2100MHz mem = 268GB/s bandwidth without X1X memory pipeline customization. Unlike you I've had Polaris 10 for almost a year and put it through it's paces on countless games and multiple ether miners. I get reduction in performance past 2100MHz to below stock speed performance.

P.S.- Ethereum mining hammers memory like a motherfucker while leaving the core at around 1GHz. With a full core OC and mem overclock to 2250MHz(288GB/s) you will get worse performance than stock in TW3.

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Concerning Forza Apex, with all due respect as a longtime friend and associate, you're too dumb to correlate that they ran the PC version settings on X1X straight up with NO X1X OPTIMIZATION and it smacked the RX 480 and GTX 1060 silly. Somewhere around 25% performance increase.

Does that compute, little buddy? They ran X1X like a PC with Forza Apex Ultra settings and it offered 25% better performance.

You haven't post a 300 GBps memory benchmark for RX-580. I'm waiting for the counter sub-system benchmark.

lol

From tech benchmarks and my own experience it's not possible to bench RX 480/580 at 300GB/s. 2250MHz(288GB/s) is the hard wall and will cause performance degradation compared to 2100MHz(268GB/s).

"While our RX 580 certainly clocks higher than the reference RX 480, dreams of breaking the 1500 Mhz barrier are a bridge too far. The memory overclocked well enough reach frequencies of up to 2200Mhz, but as is often the case with GDDR5, performance was better at 2100 Mhz."

Polaris 10's memory controller has limits e.g. 256 GB/s. 268.8 GB/s version is pushing memory controller's limits.

X1X's 384 bit GDDR5-6800 is a workaround for lacking GDDR5X-10000/11000 memory controllers.

LuLz, any game thatcan't do native on the 1X will suffer even worse on the PS4Pro. Sure, it's likely many games won't be native 4k on the X1X but the only alternative is a high end PC, since no one wants to play an inferior PS4Pro version.

@Phazevariance: "LuLz, any game thatcan't do native on the 1X will suffer even worse on the PS4Pro. Sure, it's likely many games won't be native 4k on the X1X but the only alternative is a high end PC, since no one wants to play an inferior PS4Pro version."

And they'll suffer even even worse on the X1. I guess for the last 4 years no one played the interior versions of games on the X1.

GTX 1070 still has the edge on TFLOPS when it's not memory bandwidth bound e.g. not over committing alpha effects.

Your "F6 that stress only 2 CPU cores holding back stronger GPU" argument is invalid since

1. FM6's alpha effects are heavy GPU ROPS and GPU memory bandwidth based effects. FM6 dry tracks are fine on my GTX 980 Ti with 2 heavy CPU threads.

2. GPU upgrade to GTX 1080 Ti with the same i7-4770K CPU delivers superior FM6 wet track results. This is an example for GPU bound instead of CPU bound.

At 4K resolution, it's more GPU bound than CPU bound.

what is the rationale in comparing something like Driveclub to Forza 7? they don't even operate at the same framerate, shouldn't you be comparing Gran Turismo Sport to Forza 7 considering what they are aiming for is identical?

So cutting all the fanboy BS out, it appears the game should look good and run at a good framerate on the X1X. And unless they screw something up it will be the best console version.... which is going to be the case for every console multiplat.

And since I don't give a crap about PC gaming, it seems rather obvious which version I would be buying.

Except I don't give a crap about this game, so I won't be buying any version.

I apologize for this interruption and you can now get back to your collective idiocy.

My RX 480 Red Devil 8GB sits nicely(<60°F) at 2100MHz(8400MHz) mem for ether mining and pulls about ~25MH/s. You go up to 2250MHz(9000MHz) and you'll get alternating speed reports of 26MH/s and 20-23MH/s. Red Devil custom bios didn't help with this or max core of 1390MHz.

My 2 GTX 1060s(EVGA SSC 6GB and MSI OCV1 6GB) stay sub 79°F for the back card and sub 69°F for the front card while running 2273MHz(9095MHz) mem, but only maintain *EDIT* 2171MHz(8686MHz) *EDIT* real-world for ~22MH/s.

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For games my MSI 1060 OCV1 plays at 2GHz core and 9100MHz mem, and generally will outrun my RX 480 at 1375MHz core 8400MHz mem.

P.S.- I'm aware 1060 can't SLI(exception some hacked games). However, they offer sub-200W ~45MH/s mining for $488 compared to the cheapest GTX 1070 at the time hitting ~30MH/s for $468.