Killing Floor 2 dev: The X1X is not powerful enough.

GT Sport operates at 1800pCheckerboard and then upscales to 4K from there. Playstation's premiere racing game operating at 1600x1800(~1440p)/60fps looks bad compared to Forza 7 at native 4K/60fps.

this is what these guys can't seem to grasp, the power disparity appears to be massive in practice and they can call it a simple 43% on paper but that doesn't explain everything. Forza 7 is effectively rendering at a 200% higher resolution than GT Sport, three times the resolution and it looks objectively better graphically. i'm very curious what Microsoft has done with this hardware to allow developers to eke out these kind of results. take a look at the focal point of this thread, KF2 is rendering at twice the resolution of the Pro, they've done something with this system that has not been translated to the public yet.

Forza looks like a last generation game in certain area's so meh..... where as they're seriously trying to push the boat out in terms of lighting and colour in GT Sport.

Drive Club's PBR and lighting model though is still leaps and bounds above any racing game.

all that needs to be said

lol. GT Sport is almost exactly the same on PS4 and PS4 Pro and honestly looks shit in many ways.

P.S.- F*ck Driveclub.

@gamecubepad said:

@scatteh316 said:

Forza looks like a last generation game in certain area's so meh..... where as they're seriously trying to push the boat out in terms of lighting and colour in GT Sport.

Drive Club's PBR and lighting model though is still leaps and bounds above any racing game.

lol. GT Sport is almost exactly the same on PS4 and PS4 Pro and honestly looks shit in many ways...

don't forget it has no dynamic weather, actually no weather of any kind and a fixed ToD which makes Forza 7 even more impressive as the game had to be optimized for both dynamic environmental changes. Forza 7 also has 24 cars on grid, what is GT Sport limited to? i know it's not 24.

AMD's resolution guidance relative to RX series's memory bandwidth.

X1X GPU's >256 bit bus effectively leads to the lowest RX 49X class GPU.

@ronvalencia said:

@endofaugust said:

@gamecubepad said:

@endofaugust said:

what is the rationale in comparing something like Driveclub to Forza 7? they don't even operate at the same framerate, shouldn't you be comparing Gran Turismo Sport to Forza 7 considering what they are aiming for is identical?

GT Sport operates at 1800pCheckerboard and then upscales to 4K from there. Playstation's premiere racing game operating at 1600x1800(~1440p)/60fps looks bad compared to Forza 7 at native 4K/60fps.

this is what these guys can't seem to grasp, the power disparity appears to be massive in practice and they can call it a simple 43% on paper but that doesn't explain everything. Forza 7 is effectively rendering at a 200% higher resolution than GT Sport, three times the resolution and it looks objectively better graphically. i'm very curious what Microsoft has done with this hardware to allow developers to eke out these kind of results. take a look at the focal point of this thread, KF2 is rendering at twice the resolution of the Pro, they've done something with this system that has not been translated to the public yet.

AMD's resolution guidance relative to RX series's memory bandwidth.

X1X GPU's >256 bit bus effectively leads to the lowest RX 49X class GPU.

that actually explains a lot, so the Pro GPU could realistically do more than it is if it wasn't limited by its current effective memory bandwidth, correct?

Hahahaha. Owned 'em!!!

@endofaugust said:

@ronvalencia said:

@endofaugust said:

@gamecubepad said:

GT Sport operates at 1800pCheckerboard and then upscales to 4K from there. Playstation's premiere racing game operating at 1600x1800(~1440p)/60fps looks bad compared to Forza 7 at native 4K/60fps.

this is what these guys can't seem to grasp, the power disparity appears to be massive in practice and they can call it a simple 43% on paper but that doesn't explain everything. Forza 7 is effectively rendering at a 200% higher resolution than GT Sport, three times the resolution and it looks objectively better graphically. i'm very curious what Microsoft has done with this hardware to allow developers to eke out these kind of results. take a look at the focal point of this thread, KF2 is rendering at twice the resolution of the Pro, they've done something with this system that has not been translated to the public yet.

AMD's resolution guidance relative to RX series's memory bandwidth.

X1X GPU's >256 bit bus effectively leads to the lowest RX 49X class GPU.

that actually explains a lot, so the Pro GPU could realistically do more than it is if it wasn't limited by its current effective memory bandwidth, correct?

Fallout 4 X1X = 4K (~8.29M pixels) <-----R9-390X is already doing this! X1X's 40/44 CU version is just updated Hawaii GCN with Polaris and Vega non-NCU improvements i.e. a better Hawaii GCN.

Fallout 4 PS4 Pro = 1440p (~3.6M pixels)

@ronvalencia said:

@endofaugust said:

@ronvalencia said:

@endofaugust said:

@gamecubepad said:

GT Sport operates at 1800pCheckerboard and then upscales to 4K from there. Playstation's premiere racing game operating at 1600x1800(~1440p)/60fps looks bad compared to Forza 7 at native 4K/60fps.

this is what these guys can't seem to grasp, the power disparity appears to be massive in practice and they can call it a simple 43% on paper but that doesn't explain everything. Forza 7 is effectively rendering at a 200% higher resolution than GT Sport, three times the resolution and it looks objectively better graphically. i'm very curious what Microsoft has done with this hardware to allow developers to eke out these kind of results. take a look at the focal point of this thread, KF2 is rendering at twice the resolution of the Pro, they've done something with this system that has not been translated to the public yet.

AMD's resolution guidance relative to RX series's memory bandwidth.

X1X GPU's >256 bit bus effectively leads to the lowest RX 49X class GPU.

that actually explains a lot, so the Pro GPU could realistically do more than it is if it wasn't limited by its current effective memory bandwidth, correct?

Fallout 4 X1X = 4K (~8.29M pixels) <-----R9-390X is already doing this! X1X's 40/44 CU version is just updated Hawaii GCN with Polaris and Vega non-NCU improvements i.e. a better Hawaii GCN.

Fallout 4 PS4 Pro = 1440p (~3.6M pixels)

so that would be a yes then?

I'm not a forum nazi, but could we limit quote chains to the post being directly responded to and eliminate any images. Otherwise use a simple reply. I have to remind myself as well. Just too hard to read otherwise. Thanks in advance my friends.

Yes.

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-pro-bandwidth-is-potential-bottleneck-for-4k-but-a-thought-through-tradeoff-little-nightmares-dev

According to a dev, PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU can be memory bandwidth bottlenecked at 4K.

PS4 Pro's maximum optimization method is use compute shader render tile to 2MB L2 cache path. Tile render to 2MB L2 cache via compute shader is harder than XBO's 32 MB ESRAM tiling. Creating compute shader tile render to L2 cache 3D engine for PS4 Pro will not work on OG PS4 since it's missing 2MB L2 cache.

NVIDIA's 4.x TFLOPS GeForce GTX 980 has far superior memory bandwidth with memory compression and uses automatic tile render to L2 cache methods.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/03/10/horizon-zero-dawn-ps4-pro-utilization/

Devs for Horizion Zero Dawn thinks PS4 Pro is not yet fully used...There's a high probability that the tile compute render to L2 cache method is needed to fully use PS4 Pro.

X1X's higher memory bandwidth enables more of it's TFLOPS to be used with lower programming difficulty. 2MB L2 cache for 4K rendering was also used for X1X's Forza demo. Forza XBO 3D engine is already a software tiling engine for textures and rendering.

It doesn't matter that is not on chip,DCC compression gives about 35% boost in bandwidth to Polaris this is a FACT not my opinion backed by AMD it self.

So yeah effectively it has over 300GB/s

Example the R390X has like 380GB/s vs the RX580 with 256GB/s the RX580 has more than 120Gb/s disparity bandwidth wise,yet both perform about the same regardless of the huge disparity in bandwidth are you telling me that 120GB's more will only produce 2 frames more.?

Is the same with the 5.8TF RX480 as well performing about the same as a R390X which has more than 120GB/s more.

So yeah effectively it has more than 300Gb/s for it SELF.

The data interaction is minimal and yeah the bandwidth of the GPU is for it self not for system like the xbox one X has to do.

And again i remind you that bandwidth without power mean crap,the xbox one is a TESTAMENT to that Ryze runs at higher frames in 1080p with better than xbox one settings on a 7770 and i3 than on xbox one which is cap at 900p and drops below 20FPS in stressing parts and runs between 26 and 28FPS.

So yeah the main problem for the xbox one X matching or exceeding a 1070GTX doesn't lie on bandwidth but on power which the Polaris lack at 6TF and the XB X doesn't have FP16 double pumped either to help.

Fact is the 1070GTX runs killing floor at higher resolution and setting than the xbox one X does proving again what was say by many here,is pretty lol worthy that you want to use MS games which we all know are fu** up on PC..

Is also nice to see you ignored completely that video i posted Driveclub the wet track looks just as good as forza 7 but is done on a 1.8tf machine,this is why i tell you and other that Forza is not a good comparison for anything it was never a graphical showpiece on xbox one.

Forget the frame rate as they don't operate on similar hardware power either the XBO X is 3+ times stronger than the base PS4,yet look at Driveclub how in parts even exceed F7 aside from resolution and frames.

That is the real point.

The 1070 has the edge in Tflops and compression as Nvidia compression >>>> DCC.

1-FM6 only stress 2 cores that is a problem with strong GPU and you KNOW IT pc is not the same as consoles,they have higher abstraction.

2-This is a case of just shoving more power,the PS4 runs Alien Isolation faster than the xbox one,yet you claim there is a CPU bottleneck,even when the game is a damn corridor shooter with nothing happening so you need to make up your mind,because on end you claim Hitman run faster at time because of a CPU bottleneck on PS4,but at the same time you claim the same bottleneck for Alien Isolation yet the PS4 version is faster than the xbox one,the 1080ti is also been held back as with good optimization it should give even faster frames,just because it has faster frames doesn't mean the CPU bottleneck is not there.

We can tell you haven't watched the Forza video on a 4K screen with HDR.

Forza 7 will be the Most Technically Proficient game on Consoles when it launches and also has Dynamic weather.

lol...

Dynamic weather has been on GT since GT5 or 6,and DC has it as well,in fact Driveclub look in parts better than F7 when it comes to weather.

what? your post doesn't make any sense. why would you expect the game to look better than Driveclub in every way and render at twice the framerate with four times the resolution? that would be over 8x the rendering budget with a GPU that is 3.26x more powerful. the reality is that Forza 7 looks comparatively good to Driveclub, better in some ways which is made even more impressive by the resolution and the framerate, you can't just say "forget the framerate", that's not logical.

TLHBO...LOL. Thank god I have a PC

@tormentos said:

@ronvalencia said:

1. False with 300 GBps claim for RX-580. GDDR5 is not on-chip SRAM with very low latency.

The graph was from Techreport and Beyond3D benchmark suite.

194 GBps real physical effective memory bandwidth / 256 GBps theoretical effective memory bandwidth = 75.7 percent efficient. Polaris DCC recovers the lost memory bandwidth with 36 percent memory compression boost.

RX-480's 75.7 percent memory bandwidth efficient before Polaris DCC being applied is similar to PS4's efficiency.

RX-480 still interacts with data being copied from system memory which has up to 16 GBps from PCI-E version 3.0 16X interface.

I welcome your counter GPU memory bandwidth benchmark.

It doesn't matter that is not on chip,DCC compression gives about 35% boost in bandwidth to Polaris this is a FACT not my opinion backed by AMD it self.

So yeah effectively it has over 300GB/s

Example the R390X has like 380GB/s vs the RX580 with 256GB/s the RX580 has more than 120Gb/s disparity bandwidth wise,yet both perform about the same regardless of the huge disparity in bandwidth are you telling me that 120GB's more will only produce 2 frames more.?

Is the same with the 5.8TF RX480 as well performing about the same as a R390X which has more than 120GB/s more.

So yeah effectively it has more than 300Gb/s for it SELF.

The data interaction is minimal and yeah the bandwidth of the GPU is for it self not for system like the xbox one X has to do.

And again i remind you that bandwidth without power mean crap,the xbox one is a TESTAMENT to that Ryze runs at higher frames in 1080p with better than xbox one settings on a 7770 and i3 than on xbox one which is cap at 900p and drops below 20FPS in stressing parts and runs between 26 and 28FPS.

So yeah the main problem for the xbox one X matching or exceeding a 1070GTX doesn't lie on bandwidth but on power which the Polaris lack at 6TF and the XB X doesn't have FP16 double pumped either to help.

Fact is the 1070GTX runs killing floor at higher resolution and setting than the xbox one X does proving again what was say by many here,is pretty lol worthy that you want to use MS games which we all know are fu** up on PC..

Is also nice to see you ignored completely that video i posted Driveclub the wet track looks just as good as forza 7 but is done on a 1.8tf machine,this is why i tell you and other that Forza is not a good comparison for anything it was never a graphical showpiece on xbox one.

@endofaugust said:

what is the rationale in comparing something like Driveclub to Forza 7? they don't even operate at the same framerate, shouldn't you be comparing Gran Turismo Sport to Forza 7 considering what they are aiming for is identical?

Forget the frame rate as they don't operate on similar hardware power either the XBO X is 3+ times stronger than the base PS4,yet look at Driveclub how in parts even exceed F7 aside from resolution and frames.

That is the real point.

@ronvalencia said:

GTX 1070 still has the edge on TFLOPS when it's not memory bandwidth bound e.g. not over committing alpha effects.

Your "F6 that stress only 2 CPU cores holding back stronger GPU" argument is invalid since

1. FM6's alpha effects are heavy GPU ROPS and GPU memory bandwidth based effects. FM6 dry tracks are fine on my GTX 980 Ti with 2 heavy CPU threads.

2. GPU upgrade to GTX 1080 Ti with the same i7-4770K CPU delivers superior FM6 wet track results. This is an example for GPU bound instead of CPU bound.

At 4K resolution, it's more GPU bound than CPU bound.

The 1070 has the edge in Tflops and compression as Nvidia compression >>>> DCC.

1-FM6 only stress 2 cores that is a problem with strong GPU and you KNOW IT pc is not the same as consoles,they have higher abstraction.

2-This is a case of just shoving more power,the PS4 runs Alien Isolation faster than the xbox one,yet you claim there is a CPU bottleneck,even when the game is a damn corridor shooter with nothing happening so you need to make up your mind,because on end you claim Hitman run faster at time because of a CPU bottleneck on PS4,but at the same time you claim the same bottleneck for Alien Isolation yet the PS4 version is faster than the xbox one,the 1080ti is also been held back as with good optimization it should give even faster frames,just because it has faster frames doesn't mean the CPU bottleneck is not there.

1. The facts for FM6's wet track

Same i7-4770K at 4.1 Ghz CPU + 32 GB DDR3-2400 setup with GTX 1080 Ti GPU upgrade that yields better wet track result over the old GTX 980 Ti OC = GPU bound.

i7-4790K at 4.5 Ghz CPU + 32 GB DDR3-2400 setup with GTX 980 Ti OC GPU yields dipping 60 fps wet track result = GPU bound.

I didn't claim CPU bound.

2. Useless argument with PS4 GPU example since it's GPU is not comparable to R9-390X/GTX 980 Ti/GTX 1070 magnitude.

For Rise of Tomb Raider benchmarks are not memory bandwidth benchmarks.

R9-390 has 5.1 TFLOPS beating RX-480's 5.83 TFLOPS shows memory bandwidth bottlenecks.

Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+ has 1450 Mhz clock speed which yields 6.681 TFLOPS and delivering 25 fps is still lower than R9-390X's 26 fps with 5.9 TFLOPS, hence you still showing memory bandwidth bottleneck. Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+ is using pure TFLOPS to reduce render time.

Too bad for you, X1X has Polaris DCC coupled with it's up to 326 GB/s memory bandwidth. At X1X's 300 GB/s vs RX-580's 256 GB/s = 17 percent improvement, RX-580's 25 fps x 17 percent increase = 29.3 fps and GTX 1070 has 31 fps, hence it lands on GTX 1070 range.

From http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000897/HIS-RX-480-IceQ-X2-Roaring-Turbo-8GB-Video-Card-Review/9#axzz4oeZz642d

The very old HIS R9-390X IceQ X2 Turbo (44 CU at 1070 Mhz) has 6.0 TFLOPS and 28.1 fps result. Stock GTX 1070 has 31.3 fps

Your Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+ (25.1 fps) result is similar to HIS RX-480 IceQ X2 result (26.68 fps).

At 4K, HIS R9-390X IceQ X2 Turbo is still faster than HIS RX-480 IceQ X2.

Add refinements for Hawaii GCN with Polaris/Vega non-NCU improvements, it's lands on stock GTX 1070 range and that's effectively X1X's GPU i.e. Hawaii GCN with MS's game engine optimizations (e.g. ForzaTech, Unreal Engine 4, Unity 3D) and 16 nm FinFET.

HIS R9-390X IceQ X2 Turbo already drives Fallout 4 at 4K +30 fps like X1X's 4K 30 fps.

X1X's hardware optimization only increases improved Hawaii GCN's narrow gap with GTX 1070 for wider range of 3D game engines.

It look worse than DC in several parts while been 3+ times stronger,running 4k with lower visuals is not an achievement that is the point,and considering lemmings can't stop mouthing ultra quality is even less impressive fact is Forza is not Crysis it wasn't a benchmarking game.

I knew that when I first saw the specs.

This video from ReviewTechUSA basically sums up the situation of the X1X failing again and again with achieving 4k, and what that means for MS. It is brutally honest, and worth a look if you want to know why MS screwed up big time.

"So Microsoft, How's That "Uncompromised 4K" Xbox One X Experience Working Out?"

Why are you soooo butthurt and scared of the Scorpio? Will all multiplats not look AND perform better than the Pro counter part? Your way of "winning" is to complain and bash the fact that some 3rd party devs have decided to focus on other aspects of the game than just the resolution?

How does this benefit cows? Cows are still going to have the inferior version of all multiplat games. The BEST you can hope for is parity but out performing is out the window. So what exactly are you so happy about?

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

REKT!!!! LOLOL somehow I think she'll miss the point of skip the post entirely as will all these other cows.

@gamecubepad:

Cries "fake news".

Proceeds to spout MS PR drivel as proof of said "fake news".

Also, uses Ron chart tactics.

Really, dude. You could at least give a worthy attempt at damage control.

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

He used MSs own words which directly contradict what you moronic cows are trying to claim victory over. You're trying to use 3rd party devs as fodder for not reaching 4K when MS said it was entirely up to the devs to use the power as they see fit. No one expected every game to be in 4K/60 with Ultra settings and MS never said they would.

Again, why would this make you happen in the slightest since ALL multiplats will look better on the X1X over it's Pro counter part. You really have nothing to be happy about with the exception of sales and review scores. Of course you could have all 3 consoles AND a gaming PC and be one hell of a happy camper. Sadly, you cows just love to put limits on a hobby you supposedly enjoy.

@reduc_ab_ said:

@gamecubepad:

Cries "fake news".

Proceeds to spout MS PR drivel as proof of said "fake news".

Also, uses Ron chart tactics.

Really, dude. You could at least give a worthy attempt at damage control.

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

Charts wars are standard tactics from PC master race wars and NOT limited to ronvalencia.

I love these bitter salt threads because no matter how they try to spin it, at the end of the day, this game that game whatever console game is better on the X1X over the Pro any and every day and the X1X is still the most powerful console. This stuff really eats up these PCows too, funny stuff.

@ronvalencia said:

@reduc_ab_ said:

@gamecubepad:

Cries "fake news".

Proceeds to spout MS PR drivel as proof of said "fake news".

Also, uses Ron chart tactics.

Really, dude. You could at least give a worthy attempt at damage control.

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

Charts wars are standard tactics from PC master race wars and NOT limited to ronvalencia.

I wasn't paging you, Ron.

Oh. And you should always, from now on, refer to yourself in the third person. It really, really suits you.

@reduc_ab_ said:

@ronvalencia said:

@reduc_ab_ said:

@gamecubepad:

Cries "fake news".

Proceeds to spout MS PR drivel as proof of said "fake news".

Also, uses Ron chart tactics.

Really, dude. You could at least give a worthy attempt at damage control.

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

Charts wars are standard tactics from PC master race wars and NOT limited to ronvalencia.

I wasn't paging you, Ron.

Oh. And you should always, from now on, refer to yourself in the third person. It really, really suits you.

This is system wars NOT personality wars. Your last post has nothing to do with system wars.

Well, yeah. Of course the games will run better--and look better--on the X1X, which is way more powerful than the Pro. That's not why threads like these exist.

Threads like these exist because lems, and MS too, over-hyped the X1X to the moon and back, and now they're paying for it. They dug their own grave.

@ronvalencia said:

@reduc_ab_ said:

@ronvalencia said:

@reduc_ab_ said:

@gamecubepad:

Cries "fake news".

Proceeds to spout MS PR drivel as proof of said "fake news".

Also, uses Ron chart tactics.

Really, dude. You could at least give a worthy attempt at damage control.

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Fake news.

Reality: August, 2016

MS:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K. No compromises. I don’t have to half the number of enemies on screen, I don’t have to reduce the effects, I don’t have to make the game smaller. I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

and

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Name a single 1st-party MS game that runs 1080p on XO that doesn't scale to 4K at the same quality. In fact, MS's 1st-party games have received upgrades to many or all of PC's Ultra settings.

---

Revealed: Microsoft X1X benchmarks

"The presentation states that the design goal of Xbox One X was to run native 1080p titles with a 4x resolution boost...The data for most of the nine titles clearly demonstrates that the 4x resolution design goal is clearly met - even without access to new GPU features of the Xbox One X hardware. While the 900p scaling doesn't quite show the same kind of cut and dried improvement, two out of the three basic ports get there - or thereabouts - with hardware-specific optimisation likely to make up the difference."

Every 1080p XO title runs faster at 4K on X1X

Charts wars are standard tactics from PC master race wars and NOT limited to ronvalencia.

I wasn't paging you, Ron.

Oh. And you should always, from now on, refer to yourself in the third person. It really, really suits you.

This is system wars NOT personality wars. Your last post has nothing to do with system wars.

How can this be personality wars when.....you don't have a personality, dude.

NVIDIA Pascal compression is based on DCC (Delta Color Compression) and it's implementation is superior over AMD's Polaris DCC which is superior over older Tonga/Fury's DCC.

Pascal has 4th generation DCC.

Pascal's DCC has better memory compression effectiveness over Polaris's DCC.

https://www.slashgear.com/developing-nvidia-maxwell-the-cooler-bits-18346925/

For Maxwell GPUs with 3rd generation DCC feature.

Polaris DCC is AMD's 2nd generation DCC.

DCC is a tile data block memory compression.

Try again.

You're f*cking destroyed. Don't try.

X1X is more powerful than MS initially claimed.

I used real-world metrics behind a billion-dollar project, backed by DF the most respected game analysis company in the business.

They have...a youtube rant from a dumbass. ahahahaha. Then reduc-quack tries to come at me with a squirt gun..."bu...bu...but U R cwying!"

@ronvalencia:

Can't be chart wars, they have...no charts.

Is the Xbox One X still the most powerful console, yes or no? They're not over hyping anything, if it's still the most powerful console.

And if that's the numbers for X1X for this game, then what's the Pro numbers looking like? Aren't Sony advertising it as a 4k gaming console too. They dug their own graves too then huh.

@gamecubepad:

Comes into thread that is calling out lems and MS for over-hyping the X1X, which absolutely did happen, time and time again.

Proceeds to cry "fake news".

Proceeds to spout MS PR damage control/PR blabber as proof of said "fake news".

Ignores the irony of entering thread after thread about the X1X failing to achieve 4k.

Says I'm destroyed.

Again, dude, come on. You could at least try.

Again, dude, you're talking to the wrong person using that type of fanboy talk. I absolutely %100 agree that the X1X is and will be the most powerful console in the world until next gen rolls around. That is completely not the point of this thread.

Again, the point of this thread is to call out lems/MS for over-hyping the X1X (just admit it, dude, it happened), which is simply not powerful enough to consistently produce solid 4k without compromise, as the evidence so far has clearly shown.

MOAR CHARTS AND GRAPHS! MOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR!

Check my updated post. I also asked how the Pro numbers look like for this game. Aren't Sony advertising the Pro as a 4k gaming console and their fans too were hyping it's power. There were numerous threads where cows overhyping the Pro with all these "secret sauce" threads too lol. Why single out MS, if Sony is advertising their console as a 4k gaming console too but isn't no where close to what the X1X gaming console could do. And in essence the X1X hell even the X1S are real 4k machines since they do support 4k discs lol. So Sony's the one that's really false advertising. How are you going to advertise the Pro as a 4k machine but doesn't even support 4k discs.

@reduc_ab_:

Weak...

@reduc_ab_ said:

It is brutally honest, and worth a look if you want to know why MS screwed up big time.

MS, August 2016:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K.

I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

The 1080p/60fps game he's alluding to is Forza.

Digital Foundry:

Forza Motorsport. 4K, 60fps, Xbox One quality settings with 4K assets. GPU utilisation is at 66.19 per cent, meaning there's a huge amount of overhead left over for improving visuals still further.

"The crazy story here is that we've gone over our PC ultra settings and for everything that's GPU-related(all settings), we've been able to max it - and that's what we're running at, 88 per cent," says Tector, pointing to the utilisation data at the top of the screen. Right beneath it is the anti-aliasing setting - 4x, or rather 8:4x using the Radeon EQAA hardware AA."

MS stated their goal was to run all 1080p XO games at equal settings and performance at 4K on X1X. This goal was delivered PLUS 4K ASSETS with only 66% GPU utilization.

Matt Rayner, Gears of War 4 Technical Director:

"Gears of War 4 will support native 4K resolution, high-dynamic range lighting (if you have a television that offers that feature), high-resolution textures, higher polygon count rendering and longer draw distance, as well as full dynamic shadows and improved reflections."

Digital Foundry:

Forza Horizon 3 is a 4k30 game where all of the settings are amped up, well that's something that is achievable with GTX 1070 level hardware and I do expect to see that rolling out for Scorpio based on what I've seen"

Your "proof"...a dumbass youtube video(Loki)

vs

My facts(Hulk)

and Driveclub looks worse in several areas compared to Forza 7, it's a trade off as they both do several things better than the other and vice versa in terms of things they do worse. the difference however is that Forza 7 is rendering at 60 FPS at four times the resolution, Driveclub is rendering at 30 FPS at four times less of a resolution, do the math, please because you don't appear to be.

nothing you're saying or trying to imply makes any sense

@gamecubepad:

Sweetie, you can post all the MS PR, charts, DF analysis, show vids, graphs, charts, charts, charts--you can do all of this and more, but cannot change the fact that the X1X, which MS has referred to as a "true 4k console without compromise", has not, thus far, reliably achieved 4k with the majority of games. There are a stack of games that the X1X has failed with in the 4k department, thus rendering this conversation pointless, and entirely so on your end. These threads exist because MS/lems over-hyped the X1X. Bottom line. No damage control on your part will change that.

@gamecubepad said:

@reduc_ab_:

Weak...

@reduc_ab_ said:

It is brutally honest, and worth a look if you want to know why MS screwed up big time.

MS, August 2016:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K.

I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.”

The 1080p/60fps game he's alluding to is Forza.

Digital Foundry:

Forza Motorsport. 4K, 60fps, Xbox One quality settings with 4K assets. GPU utilisation is at 66.19 per cent, meaning there's a huge amount of overhead left over for improving visuals still further.

"The crazy story here is that we've gone over our PC ultra settings and for everything that's GPU-related(all settings), we've been able to max it - and that's what we're running at, 88 per cent," says Tector, pointing to the utilisation data at the top of the screen. Right beneath it is the anti-aliasing setting - 4x, or rather 8:4x using the Radeon EQAA hardware AA."

MS stated their goal was to run all 1080p XO games at equal settings and performance at 4K on X1X. This goal was delivered PLUS 4K ASSETS with only 66% GPU utilization.

Matt Rayner, Gears of War 4 Technical Director:

"Gears of War 4 will support native 4K resolution, high-dynamic range lighting (if you have a television that offers that feature), high-resolution textures, higher polygon count rendering and longer draw distance, as well as full dynamic shadows and improved reflections."

Digital Foundry:

Forza Horizon 3 is a 4k30 game where all of the settings are amped up, well that's something that is achievable with GTX 1070 level hardware and I do expect to see that rolling out for Scorpio based on what I've seen"

Your "proof"...a dumbass youtube video(Loki)

vs

My facts(Hulk)

ugh, there's a large difference between being unable to attain a 4K render, and choosing to not render at 4K to parse more resources to other things, e.g. graphical settings on Assassin's Creed Origins

not chasing 4K =/= inability in rendering at 4K

Again, you are talking to the wrong person with that type of talk. I don't even like the Pro; I've trashed the thing multiple times on this forum. I've never, I do not believe, said a single positive thing about the Pro.

That being said, do you know why every X1X fail thread turns into a Pro thread? Because lems see the failure in the X1X, and they in turn point to the Pro and say "bu, bu, but the Pro is so much weaker!". Yeah, dude, it's weaker. I know that. I think the Pro is a hunk-o-junk. That's not the point here. The point is X1X over-hype, and the resulting lem humiliation that is going on.

Ah, yes. The good ol' "it's all the devs' fault" argument. Or some such yada yada.

Never change, Nya.

it's not that anyone is at fault, there is no fault as there is no standardization and developers choose what is more important to them. do we want to render at native 4K with console settings or do we want to render at 1800p with checkerboarding and Ultra comparative graphics settings.

you're deceptively making this black and white when it's entirely made of shades of grey, that is why your posts are garbage and no one cares about your input, you can't remain objective.

@reduc_ab_:

Again, pure weakness: No links, no benchmarks, no quotes. Just you and a dumbass youtube video. Pathetic.

Giant Bomb:

Jeff Gerstmann: "If they just want to have a 1K (1080p) frame buffer, and then, you know, upres to 4K, to take advantage of and use that power in different ways..."

Phil Spencer: "Yeah, we will absolutely be open to that. I mean we're going to talk more specifics of Project Scorpio, so we'll get into more of the details, but I think creative freedom in how you want to use the power of the box is something that I always support. I mean, I came from first party as you know, so putting the right tools in the hands of the creators, the best creators, is our job as the platform. One thing though that we should make sure everyone understands, every game that comes out in the Xbox One family will run on the original Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Scorpio, so we had some questions if there are going to be Scorpio exclusive games. No, the line of games you get to play is the same, regardless of [one you own]."

Video Gamer:

Game developers will be able to use Project Scorpio's 6 teraflops of GPU power in any way they wish, and won't be forced to hit a native 4K resolution, head of Xbox Phil Spencer suggested in a video posted earlier this week.

Speaking in the video (below), Spencer explained that Scorpio is a "6 teraflop gaming machine, which will be a great gaming machine for true 4K gaming, giving you a native 4K frame buffer so you can see games in all their beauty.

"Or," he continued, "if developers want to use those 6 teraflops in other ways they're free to do that."

The Inner Circle:

“So the goal was can we take the same level of graphics, the same frame rate, the same lighting effects, same number of enemies and AI on screen and deliver that in 4K.

I should be able to take an Xbox One game today that is in 1080p and 60fps and I want to do 4K/60fps on this new box. And we built the box to deliver that goal. So we know the box will do what we want it to do.” -Albert Penello

MS:

“I think people get confused and say our messaging is weird. Not every developer is going to use it that way. Not every developer is going to decide to take that 6TFLOPs and do 4K/60fps with it. They might decide for their game, their engine that they want to do something different and that’s fine. But our goal is to build a box that deliver true 4K games at the same level of fidelity that you see on your current Xbox One games.”

Smashed you again, Loki(aka deceiver)...