Lems tell me how pc gaming is expencive again?

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]I forgot you HAVE to buy it right? i mean yea. I can play any 360 game for only $300 with top of the line graphics. ahh, gotta love it, go cry some more, your age is showinggoblaa

You also need your $2000 TV. 

Cows need to buy a $3000 TV.  Hermits can get away with that $800 24" widescreen LCD.

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

imprezawrx500

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]I forgot you HAVE to buy it right? i mean yea. I can play any 360 game for only $300 with top of the line graphics. ahh, gotta love it, go cry some more, your age is showinggoblaa

You also need your $2000 TV.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears - these games will all almost certainly come to the PC, its just a matter of time. Anyway this thread is BS n the dude that said the £350 PC with a 7600GT will look as good as the 360 today, never mind in 5 years time is talking crap.

[QUOTE="Kaosed"]to have a solid framerate like 360 or ps3 u need to get the best gear available, wich means buy diffrent lets say each 4 or 7 months, so yes its more expensiveimprezawrx500

And that will change this year believe me.  Pc's require a upgrade about every 2 years .

[QUOTE="conceru3"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

tramp

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears - these games will all almost certainly come to the PC, its just a matter of time. Anyway this thread is BS n the dude that said the £350 PC with a 7600GT will look as good as the 360 today, never mind in 5 years time is talking crap.

Yes they may come to pc 2 years from now.  But I agree the kid who said the 7600gt is looking as good as the 360 is a joke.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"]imprezawrx500 I'm callin you out man. I would like to know how I can build a PC for $300 that is just as powerful as the 360. -supercharged-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103760 3600x2 $83

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130073 7600gt $110

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211059 1gb ram $55

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813185083 motherboard $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811164057 case and 430w power supply $24

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827131038R 18x dvd burner $25

so for $350 you can get a pc that will run games just as well as x360 now or in 5 years time and also remember you need a memory card for x360 if you wana save your games

he is also forgetting that the GPU in that thing isnt even close to the 360 or the PS3. That rig is a joke.

[QUOTE="SergeantSnitch"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]I forgot you HAVE to buy it right? i mean yea. I can play any 360 game for only $300 with top of the line graphics. ahh, gotta love it, go cry some more, your age is showingimprezawrx500

You also need your $2000 TV.

An 800 dollar pc wont touch either a 360 or a PS3 I have built gaming rigs for 5 years you simply have no clue about tech whatsoever.

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="SergeantSnitch"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]I forgot you HAVE to buy it right? i mean yea. I can play any 360 game for only $300 with top of the line graphics. ahh, gotta love it, go cry some more, your age is showingDanm_999

You also need your $2000 TV.

Seeing as how HDD is ALREADY INCLUDED when you purchase the system, that "argument" was lost from the start. Claiming XBL is slower without ever actually trying it yourself can't be debated either. You can download demos for games, watch movie trailers, upload pictures and music, there is Xbox Live Arcade as well. And just about every single game for the 360 has online ability. I've been in games where there will be close to 100 people on at one time, and it's not even CLOSE to being slow or lagging. Talking out of your ass and never having any actual experience with the service isn't going to get you anywhere.

Anyone with half a brain is going to say that PC gaming is more expensive. It is. You can spend well over a grand to have a maxxed out PC. It may also cost $50 a year for XBL but it's actually proven, and won't cost you a thousand dollars just to get online. I've had atrocious experiences with PC online gaming. Slow, the nerds don't like what you're doing, they boot you immediately, and just flat out awful.

You lost the battle my friend. Now go back to your basement. 

[QUOTE="conceru3"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

tramp

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears - these games will all almost certainly come to the PC, its just a matter of time. Anyway this thread is BS n the dude that said the £350 PC with a 7600GT will look as good as the 360 today, never mind in 5 years time is talking crap.

Get a more expensive pc, and waity yewars to get them ? NO WAY !!!!!!

Seeing as how HDD is ALREADY INCLUDED when you purchase the system, that "argument" was lost from the start.CMPunk13

The Core model has no HDD. He said all you needed was a $300 360, ergo he was talking about a Core system, and ergo he said you do not need a HDD. Read back over what he's written, he calls it a luxury to have a HDD.

There are limited ways to save games, but you can't access most of the content on XBL, or download new content without a HDD. 

Strike One for your comprehension skills. 

Claiming XBL is slower without ever actually trying it yourself can't be debated either. You can download demos for games, watch movie trailers, upload pictures and music, there is Xbox Live Arcade as well. And just about every single game for the 360 has online ability. I've been in games where there will be close to 100 people on at one time, and it's not even CLOSE to being slow or lagging. Talking out of your ass and never having any actual experience with the service isn't going to get you anywhere.CMPunk13

Why do you also have it in your head that I've never used XBL? Strike two for your comprehension skills.

 My GamerTag is Danm999, I've got about 1200 gamerpoints and I've used XBL. I find it to be slower than online gaming on a PC, and the fact that more PC games support online is absolutely undebatable. Again, I can download demos for games, watch movie trailers, upload pictures and music and get pretty much every game from XBLA on my PC, and I can do it for free. 

Anyone with half a brain is going to say that PC gaming is more expensive. It is. You can spend well over a grand to have a maxxed out PC.CMPunk13

Yes, it is more expensive. If you read the thread, you'd notice that I'm not debating that, (that's strike 3 on your comprehension skills btw) I'm debating the assertion that while PC gamers need to spend thousands of dollars to game, all you need is $300 for a 360 Core. Maybe if your on a Wii, but I've seen no one bring that argument up yet, which leads me to believe none of the people in this thread care about it.

It may also cost $50 a year for XBL but it's actually proven, and won't cost you a thousand dollars just to get online. I've had atrocious experiences with PC online gaming. Slow, the nerds don't like what you're doing, they boot you immediately, and just flat out awful.CMPunk13

1) It costs you $1000s to get online with PC gaming? Nope.

2) Your experiences are not law.

3) I've been booted, sworn at, racially discriminated against (which is odd since I'm not from a minority group) and generally seen the worst in people in Gears of War alone. The 360 userbase is no better than the 'nerds' playing PC games online. 

You lost the battle my friend. Now go back to your basement.

CMPunk13

It's 3 strikes against you, you're outta here.

$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingDoctorBunny

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV.  It would look like ass, but yes, you could.  You could also game on a $300.00 PC.  And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360.  There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming  > than the Xbox 360. 

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

/

Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingSubcritical

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV.  It would look like ass, but yes, you could.  You could also game on a $300.00 PC.  And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360.  There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming  > than the Xbox 360. 

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true.  Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) .  Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects .  The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in.  That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple.  A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long.  Its cheaper in every concevable way.

[QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Danm_999

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="SergeantSnitch"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]I forgot you HAVE to buy it right? i mean yea. I can play any 360 game for only $300 with top of the line graphics. ahh, gotta love it, go cry some more, your age is showingArchx1

You also need your $2000 TV.

An 800 dollar pc wont touch either a 360 or a PS3 I have built gaming rigs for 5 years you simply have no clue about tech whatsoever.

Around $700 is a more comparable PC. That's not including keyboard, mouse, speakers and monitor.

Then you have the head ache of PC's to deal with.

[QUOTE="Subcritical"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingArchx1

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV.  It would look like ass, but yes, you could.  You could also game on a $300.00 PC.  And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360.  There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming  > than the Xbox 360. 

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true.  Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) .  Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects .  The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in.  That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple.  A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long.  Its cheaper in every concevable way.

[QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Danm_999

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="SergeantSnitch"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]I forgot you HAVE to buy it right? i mean yea. I can play any 360 game for only $300 with top of the line graphics. ahh, gotta love it, go cry some more, your age is showingimprezawrx500

You also need your $2000 TV.

An 800 dollar pc wont touch either a 360 or a PS3 I have built gaming rigs for 5 years you simply have no clue about tech whatsoever.

Um no it wont not even close seriously what the hell do you do for a living?  That may run some pc ports better but I know for a fact that rig gets its ass handed to it on a game like SC.Da. Now imagine how it will run other games desgined primarly for a console.  That rig will not produce better visuals then either a PS3 or 360 in the long run try agian.

[QUOTE="Subcritical"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingArchx1

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV.  It would look like ass, but yes, you could.  You could also game on a $300.00 PC.  And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360.  There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming  > than the Xbox 360. 

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true.  Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) .  Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects .  The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in.  That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple.  A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long.  Its cheaper in every concevable way.

No.  It is simply true.  And I assume you are refering to Gears of War as being the "best looking game on any platform".  Please be aware that although I do agree with you that Gears of War is graphically beautiful, it has nothing to do with better hardware in the Xbox 360.  You will look like a fool if you try to argue the fact that PC hardware is less powerful than the Xbox 360.

Gears of War could easily be rendered on a PC.  In fact it was designed on PC.  PC hardware has plenty of horsepower to run this game even BETTER than an Xbox 360. 

The SOLE reason that this game isn't on the PC is because Microsoft is the publisher and hasn't allowed it to be released on PC yet.  It has NOTHING to do with Xbox 360 hardware.

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Subcritical"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingimprezawrx500

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV.  It would look like ass, but yes, you could.  You could also game on a $300.00 PC.  And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360.  There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming  > than the Xbox 360. 

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true.  Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) .  Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects .  The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in.  That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple.  A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long.  Its cheaper in every concevable way.

Not familar with the 8500.  A TI4600 had some problems on a few games though looked better on some and worse on others but this generation is differnt regardless. Id also like to see an 8500 run a good looking game built ground up for the console and not a pc port fact is it couldnt. EX. NG.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Well, this is partially true if you only upgrade certain components in your system and carry over other parts.

But overall there is no debate.  Console hardware is cheaper than PC hardware.  That is a FACT.

Also heed the fact that console hardware is subsidized by the console manufacturer.  Especially in the early stages of its release.  Its costs are diffused through expensive software, services and add on's.

For example: a 120gig HD for the Xbox 360 is $179.00?  That is pretty high.  Much higher than what a 120 would cost to put in a PC.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Subcritical"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingSubcritical

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV.  It would look like ass, but yes, you could.  You could also game on a $300.00 PC.  And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360.  There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming  > than the Xbox 360. 

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true.  Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) .  Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects .  The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in.  That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple.  A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long.  Its cheaper in every concevable way.

No.  It is simply true.  And I assume you are refering to Gears of War as being the "best looking game on any platform".  Please be aware that although I do agree with you that Gears of War is graphically beautiful, it has nothing to do with better hardware in the Xbox 360.  You will look like a fool if you try to argue the fact that PC hardware is less powerful than the Xbox 360.

Gears of War could easily be rendered on a PC.  In fact it was designed on PC.  PC hardware has plenty of horsepower to run this game even BETTER than an Xbox 360. 

The SOLE reason that this game isn't on the PC is because Microsoft is the publisher and hasn't allowed it to be released on PC yet.  It has NOTHING to do with Xbox 360 hardware.

Someone hasnt been reading up on his facts.  The main reason why Gears of War isnt coming to the pc according to Mark Rein is the average gaming rig couldnt even run it well.  Now when you say pc's have more power there is always a pc that has more power.  Yes I could buy a G80 and a Quad core and obviously have a more powerful system.  Now I could also own a system like a X1950 and technically have more power but does taht mean it will run the game better? Um not necessarily especially if it was built with the console in mind. Consoels get away with much less they are much better optimized and you need a more powerful rig to outperform a console this has been proven time and time agian its the advantage of superior optmization and having parts desgined to work together. 

Regardless when I pay money for a rig I want the best visuals I dont give a crap how much power it has if it doesnt perform.  And the fact is a 400 dollar box is simply destroying anything the pc has come out with thus far and its over a year and a half old.  Even if some pcs are more capable(keyword there is SOME) that doenst change the fact im getting a top of the line experince for only 400 bucks.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Kaosed"]to have a solid framerate like 360 or ps3 u need to get the best gear available, wich means buy diffrent lets say each 4 or 7 months, so yes its more expensiveArchx1

And that will change this year believe me.  Pc's require a upgrade about every 2 years .

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"]imprezawrx500 I'm callin you out man. I would like to know how I can build a PC for $300 that is just as powerful as the 360. Archx1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103760 3600x2 $83

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130073 7600gt $110

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211059 1gb ram $55

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813185083 motherboard $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811164057 case and 430w power supply $24

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827131038R 18x dvd burner $25

so for $350 you can get a pc that will run games just as well as x360 now or in 5 years time and also remember you need a memory card for x360 if you wana save your games

he is also forgetting that the GPU in that thing isnt even close to the 360 or the PS3. That rig is a joke.

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="madrocketeer"]Just lurking, not really contributing to the discussion. but just like to correct some facts: [QUOTE="-supercharged-"] processor fan and heatsink, imprezawrx500

PC case, -supercharged-

floppy drive, -supercharged-

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

What does general processing power have to do with games?  The tricore procssor in the 360 would utterly stomp the 3600x2

for games and the PS3 processor is in a wholenother league. Now memory bandwth is all that matters for a GPU now?  It has a slower clock speed, less shader peformance and no ED-Ram.  Seriously the GPU in both consoles troucnes the 7600 and a 7900 will be whats needed to keep up with current games.  SC.DA runs far superior on the 360 then it does the 7900 so it depends on the devs.  Any problems the 360 console has running Oblvion is strictly ram based due to the massive worlds and with the update patch I must say the 360 verison of Oblvion runs much better then it did.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

[QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Kaosed"]to have a solid framerate like 360 or ps3 u need to get the best gear available, wich means buy diffrent lets say each 4 or 7 months, so yes its more expensiveimprezawrx500

And that will change this year believe me.  Pc's require a upgrade about every 2 years .

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"]imprezawrx500 I'm callin you out man. I would like to know how I can build a PC for $300 that is just as powerful as the 360. Archx1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103760 3600x2 $83

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130073 7600gt $110

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211059 1gb ram $55

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813185083 motherboard $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811164057 case and 430w power supply $24

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827131038R 18x dvd burner $25

so for $350 you can get a pc that will run games just as well as x360 now or in 5 years time and also remember you need a memory card for x360 if you wana save your games

he is also forgetting that the GPU in that thing isnt even close to the 360 or the PS3. That rig is a joke.

Why cant a pc with a X1950 that cost over 400 bucs run SC.DA as good as the 360? And with the update yes Oblivion does run as good as a 7900 only with slower loadtimes due to limited Ram . It has nothing to do with the GPU.

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . imprezawrx500

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

LMAO so now a 6800 is simlar to a 360 ?  Seriously dude you are a joke you do not own any console are you wouldnt even be debating.  Fact is the 360 is holding up with TOP of the line cards today on most games worse on some and better on others.

[QUOTE="Subcritical"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Subcritical"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingArchx1

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV. It would look like ass, but yes, you could. You could also game on a $300.00 PC. And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360. There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming > than the Xbox 360.

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true. Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) . Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects . The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in. That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple. A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long. Its cheaper in every concevable way.

No. It is simply true. And I assume you are refering to Gears of War as being the "best looking game on any platform". Please be aware that although I do agree with you that Gears of War is graphically beautiful, it has nothing to do with better hardware in the Xbox 360. You will look like a fool if you try to argue the fact that PC hardware is less powerful than the Xbox 360.

Gears of War could easily be rendered on a PC. In fact it was designed on PC. PC hardware has plenty of horsepower to run this game even BETTER than an Xbox 360.

The SOLE reason that this game isn't on the PC is because Microsoft is the publisher and hasn't allowed it to be released on PC yet. It has NOTHING to do with Xbox 360 hardware.

Someone hasnt been reading up on his facts. The main reason why Gears of War isnt coming to the pc according to Mark Rein is the average gaming rig couldnt even run it well. Now when you say pc's have more power there is always a pc that has more power. Yes I could buy a G80 and a Quad core and obviously have a more powerful system. Now I could also own a system like a X1950 and technically have more power but does taht mean it will run the game better? Um not necessarily especially if it was built with the console in mind. Consoels get away with much less they are much better optimized and you need a more powerful rig to outperform a console this has been proven time and time agian its the advantage of superior optmization and having parts desgined to work together.

Regardless when I pay money for a rig I want the best visuals I dont give a crap how much power it has if it doesnt perform. And the fact is a 400 dollar box is simply destroying anything the pc has come out with thus far and its over a year and a half old. Even if some pcs are more capable(keyword there is SOME) that doenst change the fact im getting a top of the line experince for only 400 bucks.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

LMAO so now a 6800 is simlar to a 360 ? Seriously dude you are a joke you do not own any console are you wouldnt even be debating. Fact is the 360 is holding up with TOP of the line cards today on most games worse on some and better on others.

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Subcritical"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Subcritical"]

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]$2000 tv? once again, your age is showing, or you are just an idiot. How many people have tv's? almost EVERYONE. hell you could play on a $100 tv, still less t han half the price of pc gammingDanm_999

Yes, you could play on a $100.00 TV. It would look like ass, but yes, you could. You could also game on a $300.00 PC. And yes, that too would look like ass.

There is no doubt that a good PC will cost you more than an Xbox 360. There is also no doubt that a good PC will do far more than an Xbox 360.

There raging debate about having to upgrade your PC every 6 - 12 - or even 18 months is as stupid as the argument that people are once again upgrading their Xbox 360 to the Elite, or Extreme, or whatever queer name Microsoft decided to call it.

The fact of the matter is this: The PC in all aspects of technology and gaming > than the Xbox 360.

Another fact is game prices and hidden costs on the Xbox 360 > PC.

Simply not true. Here we are almost a year and a half and the 360 still has the best looking game on it of any platforms( yes better looking then anything currenty avaiable on pc regardless of what rig you have) . Now if I spend 2000 dollars on a pc rig I want it to look better in all aspects . The fact is right now it doesnt.

Also If your so concerned about gameprices just trade them in. That something that is an absolute pain in the ass for pc gaming . The fact is if you want to be a pc gamer you will have to upgrade every 24 monthes at least plain and simple. A conosole cost much less to begin with and last twice as long. Its cheaper in every concevable way.

No. It is simply true. And I assume you are refering to Gears of War as being the "best looking game on any platform". Please be aware that although I do agree with you that Gears of War is graphically beautiful, it has nothing to do with better hardware in the Xbox 360. You will look like a fool if you try to argue the fact that PC hardware is less powerful than the Xbox 360.

Gears of War could easily be rendered on a PC. In fact it was designed on PC. PC hardware has plenty of horsepower to run this game even BETTER than an Xbox 360.

The SOLE reason that this game isn't on the PC is because Microsoft is the publisher and hasn't allowed it to be released on PC yet. It has NOTHING to do with Xbox 360 hardware.

Someone hasnt been reading up on his facts. The main reason why Gears of War isnt coming to the pc according to Mark Rein is the average gaming rig couldnt even run it well. Now when you say pc's have more power there is always a pc that has more power. Yes I could buy a G80 and a Quad core and obviously have a more powerful system. Now I could also own a system like a X1950 and technically have more power but does taht mean it will run the game better? Um not necessarily especially if it was built with the console in mind. Consoels get away with much less they are much better optimized and you need a more powerful rig to outperform a console this has been proven time and time agian its the advantage of superior optmization and having parts desgined to work together.

Regardless when I pay money for a rig I want the best visuals I dont give a crap how much power it has if it doesnt perform. And the fact is a 400 dollar box is simply destroying anything the pc has come out with thus far and its over a year and a half old. Even if some pcs are more capable(keyword there is SOME) that doenst change the fact im getting a top of the line experince for only 400 bucks.

With one game?  Nonsense.  It was the 360 version of G.R.A.W nominated for best visuals in the overall category here at gamespot not the pc version .( and yes it did look better although it was smaller) .  Then there were other beautiful titles such as Kameo and SC.DA which were outstanding looking games and looked better then most games on pc.  So really to say im getting a top of the line experince with one game is simply not true.  I suggest you get more gamerpoints on Xbox live and enjoy more games. As for the rule well its already differnt this time around.  Because the 360 actually started out behind and end up looking better as time went on.  It went from barely running Quake 4 to running Gears of War withouht a hitch.   Will pc gaming eventually look signifcantly better?  Of course and by that time the next consoles will arleady be on the horizion.  My point is console gamers are getting more bang for there buck this time around then ever. I look at the titles coming out for both PS3, 360 and PC next year and from a visual standpoint(Other then Crysis) consoles clearly have the overall edge.

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Danm_999

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

LMAO so now a 6800 is simlar to a 360 ? Seriously dude you are a joke you do not own any console are you wouldnt even be debating. Fact is the 360 is holding up with TOP of the line cards today on most games worse on some and better on others.

SC.DA, G.R.A.W, Kameo, RS.Vegas are all holding up as well so you really have no case.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="madrocketeer"]Just lurking, not really contributing to the discussion. but just like to correct some facts: [QUOTE="-supercharged-"] processor fan and heatsink, Archx1

PC case, -supercharged-

floppy drive, -supercharged-

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

What does general processing power have to do with games?  The tricore procssor in the 360 would utterly stomp the 3600x2

for games and the PS3 processor is in a wholenother league. Now memory bandwth is all that matters for a GPU now?  It has a slower clock speed, less shader peformance and no ED-Ram.  Seriously the GPU in both consoles troucnes the 7600 and a 7900 will be whats needed to keep up with current games.  SC.DA runs far superior on the 360 then it does the 7900 so it depends on the devs.  Any problems the 360 console has running Oblvion is strictly ram based due to the massive worlds and with the update patch I must say the 360 verison of Oblvion runs much better then it did.

[QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="madrocketeer"]Just lurking, not really contributing to the discussion. but just like to correct some facts: [QUOTE="-supercharged-"] processor fan and heatsink, imprezawrx500

PC case, -supercharged-

floppy drive, -supercharged-

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

360 GPU is well above 1950XTX in next gen features, and can have up to 480MB ram for textures !!!!! The CPU is 3 core, FAR above anything a PC can do, 6 threads fully programmable, pc can't touch yet, only 4 cores might, but are rarely used unlike on 360.

Also 360 is a specific platform, meaning 10x better utilization than the generic code for pc's

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="madrocketeer"]Just lurking, not really contributing to the discussion. but just like to correct some facts: [QUOTE="-supercharged-"] processor fan and heatsink, imprezawrx500

PC case, -supercharged-

floppy drive, -supercharged-

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

What does general processing power have to do with games?  The tricore procssor in the 360 would utterly stomp the 3600x2

for games and the PS3 processor is in a wholenother league. Now memory bandwth is all that matters for a GPU now?  It has a slower clock speed, less shader peformance and no ED-Ram.  Seriously the GPU in both consoles troucnes the 7600 and a 7900 will be whats needed to keep up with current games.  SC.DA runs far superior on the 360 then it does the 7900 so it depends on the devs.  Any problems the 360 console has running Oblvion is strictly ram based due to the massive worlds and with the update patch I must say the 360 verison of Oblvion runs much better then it did.

Um no its not and andatech knows crap about console they have never worked with either platform so why they comment on the issue is beyond me  anyways its great to see where you get your knolwedge from and maybe thats why you are so misinformed that article was also writeen well before the 360 was even released if I recall. The Cell is nothing?  Um FP performance is extremly important for games I would love to see what kind of Rig it would take to run Ninja Gaiden sigma at 1080p and 60pfs it would make a 7600 choke and blow up.

Regardless how is Stalker at 720p and 30fps being compared to consoles the game isnt evne on consoels and visually it is nothing special.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

LMAO so now a 6800 is simlar to a 360 ? Seriously dude you are a joke you do not own any console are you wouldnt even be debating. Fact is the 360 is holding up with TOP of the line cards today on most games worse on some and better on others.

SC.DA, G.R.A.W, Kameo, RS.Vegas are all holding up as well so you really have no case.

With one game? Nonsense. It was the 360 version of G.R.A.W nominated for best visuals in the overall category here at gamespot not the pc version .( and yes it did look better although it was smaller) . Then there were other beautiful titles such as Kameo and SC.DA which were outstanding looking games and looked better then most games on pc. So really to say im getting a top of the line experince with one game is simply not true. I suggest you get more gamerpoints on Xbox live and enjoy more games. As for the rule well its already differnt this time around. Because the 360 actually started out behind and end up looking better as time went on. It went from barely running Quake 4 to running Gears of War withouht a hitch. Will pc gaming eventually look signifcantly better? Of course and by that time the next consoles will arleady be on the horizion. My point is console gamers are getting more bang for there buck this time around then ever. I look at the titles coming out for both PS3, 360 and PC next year and from a visual standpoint(Other then Crysis) consoles clearly have the overall edge.

Archx1

Err, PC games are going to begin looking noticeably better with Directx 10, not by the horizon of the next generation. Crysis is only an example of the first generation of Dx10 games (well, actually I think Sup Com and Company of Heroes have Dx10). I don't know why you think late 2005 hardware is going to be able to consistenty compete with modern PC hardware much longer. Optimisation only takes you so far.

But as for your other points, I really don't think their valid. GRAW isn't a good example since it's not a direct port. The PC and 360 version had different developers, they even had a different engine! Plus, in that same award, Company of Heroes received more votes than GRAW for technical achievement, so the point 360 games are superior is problematized.

Oblivion looks better on the PC than the 360 (and that is without the texture packs that just take the PC totally out of console reach) and while Kameo and Splinter Cell look good, thier beginning to look dated against games like Sup Com and STALKER (not the most perfect genre comparisons I know, plus I think STALKERS character models are average, but its environments are fantastic).

Gears of War is the only console game that really competes with PC visuals, and thats because it's a stunning game. But it won't always be the best looking game, and this year and next looks to conform to the typical console cycle rule.

[QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . imprezawrx500

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

LMAO so now a 6800 is simlar to a 360 ? Seriously dude you are a joke you do not own any console are you wouldnt even be debating. Fact is the 360 is holding up with TOP of the line cards today on most games worse on some and better on others.

SC.DA, G.R.A.W, Kameo, RS.Vegas are all holding up as well so you really have no case.

No they didnt say the pc version looked better in G.R.A.W buildings have more detail were there exact words meaning larger more areas in each building.  But visually the 360 version looked better hence the reason why it got nominated in the overall visual awards and the pc version didnt that pretty much says it all right there the 360 version looked superior .

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="-supercharged-"][QUOTE="madrocketeer"]Just lurking, not really contributing to the discussion. but just like to correct some facts: [QUOTE="-supercharged-"] processor fan and heatsink, Archx1

PC case, -supercharged-

floppy drive, -supercharged-

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]

since you have to buy a new xbox every year and a half how is x360 cheaper than a gaming pc.  $400 + $480 = a very nice pc and then there is the $20 extra for x360 games over pc games which is $1000 over 5 years extra you will spend.

conceru3

A 500$ PC could not even run 360 dashboard !!! And will not get Mass Effect, Fable 2, halo 3, Gears, Lost oDyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, Cry On, Infinite Undiscovery

What does general processing power have to do with games?  The tricore procssor in the 360 would utterly stomp the 3600x2

for games and the PS3 processor is in a wholenother league. Now memory bandwth is all that matters for a GPU now?  It has a slower clock speed, less shader peformance and no ED-Ram.  Seriously the GPU in both consoles troucnes the 7600 and a 7900 will be whats needed to keep up with current games.  SC.DA runs far superior on the 360 then it does the 7900 so it depends on the devs.  Any problems the 360 console has running Oblvion is strictly ram based due to the massive worlds and with the update patch I must say the 360 verison of Oblvion runs much better then it did.

Um no its not and andatech knows crap about consoel hardware its great to see where you get your knolwedge from and maybe thats why you are so misinformed that article was also writeen well before the 360 was even released if I recall. The Cell is nothing?  Um FP performance is extremly important for games I would love to see what kind of Rig it would take to run Ninja Gaiden sigma at 1080p and 60pfs it would make a 7600 choke and blow up.

Regardless how is Stalker at 720p and 30fps being compared to consoles the game isnt evne on consoels and visually it is nothing special.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Archx1"]Pc gaming cost more then consoles why do hermits debate this . Archx1

And we have pc fanboys saying they can spend 500 dollars to get a compareable experince and thats simply not true.

Scroll up Imprenzwa has said it reptedly throughout his post.

LMAO so now a 6800 is simlar to a 360 ? Seriously dude you are a joke you do not own any console are you wouldnt even be debating. Fact is the 360 is holding up with TOP of the line cards today on most games worse on some and better on others.

SC.DA, G.R.A.W, Kameo, RS.Vegas are all holding up as well so you really have no case.

No they didnt say the pc version looked better in G.R.A.W buildings have more detail were there exact words meaning larger more areas in each building.  But visually the 360 version looked better hence the reason why it got nominated in the overall visual awards and the pc version didnt that pretty much says it all right there the 360 version looked superior .

[QUOTE="Archx1"]

With one game? Nonsense. It was the 360 version of G.R.A.W nominated for best visuals in the overall category here at gamespot not the pc version .( and yes it did look better although it was smaller) . Then there were other beautiful titles such as Kameo and SC.DA which were outstanding looking games and looked better then most games on pc. So really to say im getting a top of the line experince with one game is simply not true. I suggest you get more gamerpoints on Xbox live and enjoy more games. As for the rule well its already differnt this time around. Because the 360 actually started out behind and end up looking better as time went on. It went from barely running Quake 4 to running Gears of War withouht a hitch. Will pc gaming eventually look signifcantly better? Of course and by that time the next consoles will arleady be on the horizion. My point is console gamers are getting more bang for there buck this time around then ever. I look at the titles coming out for both PS3, 360 and PC next year and from a visual standpoint(Other then Crysis) consoles clearly have the overall edge.

Danm_999

Err, PC games are going to begin looking noticeably better with Directx 10, not by the horizon of the next generation. Crysis is only an example of the first generation of Dx10 games (well, actually I think Sup Com and Company of Heroes have Dx10). I don't know why you think late 2005 hardware is going to be able to consistenty compete with modern PC hardware much longer. Optimisation only takes you so far.

But as for your other points, I really don't think their valid. GRAW isn't a good example since it's not a direct port. The PC and 360 version had different developers, they even had a different engine!

Oblivion looks better on the PC than the 360 (and that is without the texture packs that just take the PC totally out of console reach) and while Kameo and Splinter Cell look good, thier beginning to look dated against games like Sup Com and STALKER (not the most perfect genre comparisons I know, plus I think STALKERS character models are average, but its environments are fantastic).

Gears of War is the only console game that really competes with PC visuals, and thats because it's a stunning game. But it won't always be the best looking game, and this year and next looks to conform to the typical console cycle rule.

With the update Oblvion looks about equal to the 360 verison on a high end rig.  It loads faster and with texture mods it looks better but default max settings look about equal to the 360 verison with the texture patch .  And Betheda is primarily a pc dev.  the texture packs are not anything that couldnt be done on a console they werent even made by the devs and as far as I know Oblvion doesnt even support texture streaming which is a must to acheive those kinds of textures on 512megs of Ram.( thats how GeoW did it.

And honestly neither subcom or Stalker are that impressive from the start. Stalker basically looks as good as HL2 maybe slightly better to say a game like Kameo looks outdated by it is ridiculous. 

And Gears of War doesnt compare to pc visuals it surpasses them clearly that is a fact at least for now and im sure it will be beaten by many games on all platforms.  Hell I can name at least one title on the PS3, 360 and PC coming out this year that beat Gears of War visuals but my point is DX10 is suppsoe to look signficantly better and right now it dosnt.  Crysis looks great it also has a 21 million dollar budget and one of the most talented visual teams in the indsutry making it. Many people think Crysis will be the begining of DX10 fact is that will probably be the best looking pc game not only this year but next year as well( havent evne seen anything annoucned for pc that looks close other then Alan Wake and PO and there multiplat.) Hermits act like Crysis is the standard for DX10 fact is most people simply dont have the talent and resources to make a game look that good and if they think thats what hte average pc game is going to look like there going to be sorely disapoited.

Anyways its getting late have to go to bed nice talking to you.