Losing the market leadership is the best thing to happen to Sony

They have done a fantastic job of leading the games industry, they started off with a bang and it carried over to the PS2, Sony should be really happy with success of their platforms but there comes a time when a company needs to experience a fall in order to be better then they ever were. Really its true, if Sony recieved no bashing from the games media and gamers this gen then the success would have gone to their head and they would not be trying as best as they are now, especially with their 1st/2nd party efforts. Nintendo experienced a fall with N64 and GC thus making them understand what they are about as a company, this lead Nintendo to victory this gen. Even MS experienced a fall last gen, you can call a stepping stone to success if you like but I believe even MS didn't know that the orginal Xbox would lose them so much money. Like anything in life too much success goes to your head and you become a bad person because of it, you know snobby, arrogant etc, Sony did show this at the beginning of this gen.

Now that they know the industry is not in their hands I can see Sony not making the same mistakes they did a few years ago, it remains to be seen if they can make success out of the PS3 since it is early to tell but I am sure they will be a much better company for their next gen platform. A fall makes one reflect and come back stronger then ever, happened to Ninty and MS, it was just Sony's turn now, doesn't mean the the PS brand has failed.

This brings me to my question, do you think Sony can still bring it back within this gen or will it be next gen when the Playstation platform flourishes ?

Losses always put things in perspective.

sony isnt an exception.

yup, when your at the top you get cocky... hense what nintendo is doing yet again

I just wish MS would get to the top just to see what its like, every good gaming company needs to see the bottom and the top

Actually the whole reason the PSX became a console was because Nintendo let their success go to their head. Nintendo was working with sony to include a CD drive with one of their consoles but after extensive R&D Nintendo backed out because they thought they could do fine without it. Sony looks at the stuff they've already got and decides to make a console. The Playstation crushes the N64 and sony becomes top dog.

I'm not so sure its a good thing that Sony has fallen from the top spot. Sure they wont make the same mistakes next time around but does this mean that next gen Sony will abandon Hardcore gamers and go casual like Nintendo did. In truth I think the whole casual gaming market will collapse by the end of this gen. While they're might be a large number of casual gamers out there they are still just that, casual gamers. Some will move toward the hardcore and then abandon the casual and the others will just stop playing. That's what I think anyway, what are you're thoughts?

Actually the whole reason the PSX became a console was because Nintendo let their success go to their head. Nintendo was working with sony to include a CD drive with one of their consoles but after extensive R&D Nintendo backed out because they thought they could do fine without it. Sony looks at the stuff they've already got and decides to make a console. The Playstation crushes the N64 and sony becomes top dog.

lol I bet Ninty regrets making its own worse enemy.

I'm not so sure its a good thing that Sony has fallen from the top spot. Sure they wont make the same mistakes next time around but does this mean that next gen Sony will abandon Hardcore gamers and go casual like Nintendo did. In truth I think the whole casual gaming market will collapse by the end of this gen. While they're might be a large number of casual gamers out there they are still just that, casual gamers. Some will move toward the hardcore and then abandon the casual and the others will just stop playing. That's what I think anyway, what are you're thoughts?

Sony will never cater to the casuals only, Nintendo have had that casual image and kiddie tag ever since they made their 1st console I believe whereas Sony right from the PS1 catered to both casuals with games like Spyro, Crash etc as well as the hardcore with games like RE, MGS, Tekken etc. Sony is the 1st company to cater to both casuals and hardcore and I don't see this changing now or next gen. Look at LBP, from the out-set it looks like a casual game but dig deep and it also has hardcore appeal, leave it to Sony to make a game which appeals to both types of gamers.

WeaponX295

It probably is the best thing to happen; no one wants a companie's successes to go to its head, and a wake up call is sorely needed.

If you look at the way console generations have panned out, could we apply the same to Sony and Microsoft? It seems all companies go from inventing a product, to refining it, letting it get to their heads, struggling to recover and then, in the case of Ninty at least, doing something risky that pays off, and probably starts the cycle all over again.

OKAY -> SUPERB -> DOWNFALL -> STRUGGLE -> RISK

NES -> SNES -> N64 -> GC -> WII

SMS -> MEGADRIVE / GENESIS -> SATURN -> DREAMCAST

PS1 -> PS2 -> PS3

XBOX -> XBOX 360

Naa, it will probably never pan out like that, but it will be interesting to see.

nintendo might have sold the most consoles, but just me alone is worth more than 6 soccer mums who bought the Wii they might have bought 5 games or less since the Wii has come out while ive bought about 30 for the ps3 so far

If one hardcore gamer = 6 nintendo Wii soccer mums if we want to take that further

10 hardcore gamers = 60 soccer mums Wii owners

1000 hardcore gamers = 6000 soccer mum Wii owners

So if nintendo loses there hardcore fanbase it's going to really start hurting them in the long run

nintendo might have sold the most consoles, but just me alone is worth more than 6 soccer mums who bought the Wii they might have bought 5 games or less since the Wii has come out while ive bought about 30 for the ps3 so far

If one hardcore gamer = 6 nintendo Wii soccer mums if we want to take that further

10 hardcore gamers = 60 soccer mums Wii owners

1000 hardcore gamers = 6000 soccer mum Wii owners

So if nintendo loses there hardcore fanbase it's going to really start hurting them in the long run

bigLLL

Somehow, I dont think Nintendo is going to lose its hardcore fanbase more than it already has... people that passed over the N64 and GC for the PS1, PS2 and XBOX have already done it. The core Nintendo fans are still going to buy the console, regardless of Ninty's apparent casual (yuck, hate that word) focus, and Nintendo are just adding a massive group of customers to their install base.

Not to mention that Nintendo actually make money when they sell consoles, I dont think its going to be hurting them any time soon.

Besides, Nintendo have managed to dish out their core franchises at a lightning fast pace. Those fans who stick with Zelda, Mario, Metroid and Brawl have already got what they wanted.

Microsoft are 2nd so far this gen but I think they are having a taste of the cock-yness as well, they musnt like to think the Wii doesnt excist, getting run down so fast by the Wii must have hurt but they learned to block them out.

It probably is the best thing to happen; no one wants a companie's successes to go to its head, and a wake up call is sorely needed.

If you look at the way console generations have panned out, could we apply the same to Sony and Microsoft? It seems all companies go from inventing a product, to refining it, letting it get to their heads, struggling to recover and then, in the case of Ninty at least, doing something risky that pays off, and probably starts the cycle all over again.

OKAY -> SUPERB -> DOWNFALL -> STRUGGLE -> RISK

NES -> SNES -> N64 -> GC -> WII

SMS -> MEGADRIVE / GENESIS -> SATURN -> DREAMCAST

PS1 -> PS2 -> PS3

XBOX -> XBOX 360

Naa, it will probably never pan out like that, but it will be interesting to see.

matchstickbaby

QFT! It seems that after ten years of leading the market companies tend to go insane. Atari (horribly designed consoles/games helped cause the video game crash), Nintendo (N64 cartridges proved to be a big mistake and the console wasn't very easy to develop for... Oh, and Virtual Boy and the firing of Gunpei Yokoi) and finally Sony (again, risky format, console not easy to develop for, pricing, father of the Playstation leaving)

I'm not that sure.

Losing their untouchable leadership may have cost them a little more than we think. Just look how many exclusive the PS brand has lost, DMC4, GTAIV, SC4, and recently, FFXIII (and others). Before this gen, devs could be sure to make expensive and great games exclusive for a PS system, now it is a lot harder. That means less exclusives, and, we want to believe it or not, losing exclusives for a company that was know for its great exclusives is a big hit. The PS3 is not, and it doesn't look it will be, what the pS2 was. What does that mean? Not having a clear "best console", the userbase split up, ant that is what we are seeing, in the 360, for example.

I'd say that Sony losing the market leadership is the best thing to happen to MS.

Of course, just my two cents.

Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. Fart_Storm

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

It probably is the best thing to happen; no one wants a companie's successes to go to its head, and a wake up call is sorely needed.

If you look at the way console generations have panned out, could we apply the same to Sony and Microsoft? It seems all companies go from inventing a product, to refining it, letting it get to their heads, struggling to recover and then, in the case of Ninty at least, doing something risky that pays off, and probably starts the cycle all over again.

OKAY -> SUPERB -> DOWNFALL -> STRUGGLE -> RISK

NES -> SNES -> N64 -> GC -> WII

SMS -> MEGADRIVE / GENESIS -> SATURN -> DREAMCAST

PS1 -> PS2 -> PS3

XBOX -> XBOX 360

Naa, it will probably never pan out like that, but it will be interesting to see.

matchstickbaby

Oh, so that 3rd Console curse is true. I just needed it in perspective.

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. IronBass

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sony should gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. Fart_Storm

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. Fart_Storm

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

I got more faith in mathematics.

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sony should gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. druggyjoe3000

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/hirai-targets-150-million-ps3-sales

Sony's Kaz Hirai has said that the company is targeting PlayStation 3 sales figures of 150 million units during the console's lifecycle.

Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sony should gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. Fart_Storm

A. Bluetooth blows.

B. It's firmware update 2.41, which is disappointing as hell

C. If you think that the PS3 is going to beat the 360 by the end of this year, which is only 4 months away, I gotta :lol: at you. They will be lucky to pass the 360 by the end of 2009, which is probably when you will start seeing concept designs of the next Xbox, making their "Victory" a shallow one because the 360 will have beaten them for almost an entire generation. Not that it matters anyway because MS has already gotten what they wanted: SERIOUS BRAND RECOGNITION.

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. IronBass

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

I got more faith in mathematics,

yup, when your at the top you get cocky... hense what nintendo is doing yet again

I just wish MS would get to the top just to see what its like, every good gaming company needs to see the bottom and the top

supermechakirby

I think MS already believes they're on top.

I 100% agree with TC, and that's the reason why I think next-gen will be VERY interesting. Sony's gotten off of its high horse and will learn from their mistakes.

If they don't manage to redeem themselves this gen, they most certainly will next-gen. (Especially when it comes to the price of the console, and the games available for it, i wouldn't be suprised if Sony buys every major exclusive for next-gen consoles)

Well just because Sony may learn from their mistake, it doesn't guarantee that they can just waltz in and take things over were they left off. It will be almost impossable for them to reestablish their dominance.DaBrainz

Just cause a console is not in 1st place doesn't automatically means it sucks or not worthy to be bought. Still early times for PS3 and it will only get better year after year, PS3 has awesome games coming out this fall, if they continue bringing out awesome and innovatve games then Sony have redeemed themselfs in my book whether or not it establishes its dominance, besides Wii is owning the 360 too you know

nintendo might have sold the most consoles, but just me alone is worth more than 6 soccer mums who bought the Wii they might have bought 5 games or less since the Wii has come out while ive bought about 30 for the ps3 so far

If one hardcore gamer = 6 nintendo Wii soccer mums if we want to take that further

10 hardcore gamers = 60 soccer mums Wii owners

1000 hardcore gamers = 6000 soccer mum Wii owners

So if nintendo loses there hardcore fanbase it's going to really start hurting them in the long run

bigLLL

so how come the Wii has a higher attach rate than the ps3?

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/24/npds-latest-software-tie-ratios-for-consoles/

from where in sitting the ps3 looks a mighty lot weaker than the ps2 ever did. thegoldenpoo

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. IronBass

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

I got more faith in mathematics.

Sig worthy! :lol:

[QUOTE="thegoldenpoo"]from where in sitting the ps3 looks a mighty lot weaker than the ps2 ever did. Swift_Boss_A

he may mean that if you compare the ps2's first 2 years to the ps3's first 2 years, the ps3 looks alot weaker...

i think they can come back this gen, easly take 2nd place. Sonys been spending alot of money on home and they actually apoligized to customers saying we habve been spending to much time and money in home were not as focused on getting exclusives, ever since then sonys been revealing a buttload of exclusives. HOme took awhile, but at the end of the day sony came thru in the sence of exclusives, and home is just a little something xtra..

look at the gamecube it failed (xbox wasnt to far in front of it ether) and did they care? no, if u have fun with ur system ull be fine!

They have done a fantastic job of leading the games industry, they started off with a bang and it carried over to the PS2, Sony should be really happy with success of their platforms but there comes a time when a company needs to experience a fall in order to be better then they ever were. Really its true, if Sony recieved no bashing from the games media and gamers this gen then the success would have gone to their head and they would not be trying as best as they are now, especially with their 1st/2nd party efforts. Nintendo experienced a fall with N64 and GC thus making them understand what they are about as a company, this lead Nintendo to victory this gen. Even MS experienced a fall last gen, you can call a stepping stone to success if you like but I believe even MS didn't know that the orginal Xbox would lose them so much money. Like anything in life too much success goes to your head and you become a bad person because of it, you know snobby, arrogant etc, Sony did show this at the beginning of this gen.

Now that they know the industry is not in their hands I can see Sony not making the same mistakes they did a few years ago, it remains to be seen if they can make success out of the PS3 since it is early to tell but I am sure they will be a much better company for their next gen platform. A fall makes one reflect and come back stronger then ever, happened to Ninty and MS, it was just Sony's turn now, doesn't mean the the PS brand has failed.

This brings me to my question, do you think Sony can still bring it back within this gen or will it be next gen when the Playstation platform flourishes ?

Swift_Boss_A

lol, when I 1st saw the title, I thought it was going to be a PS3 bashing Topic, along the lines of taking pleasure in their misery type thing, and kicking them when they're down.

Turns out to this topic is much much smarter. You exalt the wisdom that all defeats are disguised lessons in the path to victory. From mistakes, we can all learn to improve. In fact when Sony was 1st conceptualizing their first console, they were very observant of the market and taking notes from everybody else, putting into practice everything that worked and seeing where they could make tweaks to it.

Thomas Wayne said it best; "Why do we fall down? So we can learn to get back up."

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. IronBass

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

I got more faith in mathematics.

I got more faith in my little brother and he does'nt know how to read

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. IronBass

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

I got more faith in mathematics.

ROFL!!!

according to fartstorm the ps3 will be the marketleader by the end of the year or early next year. So they have to catch the wii which is 15 million (and growing) ahead what the hell. Also catching the 360 that soon is ridiculous not that soon...if at all. Just because its outselling the 360 at the mo doesnt mean that things cant change so 360 will outsell the ps3 in future months.

But yes it does seem sony arnt as arrogant and actually are getting some awesome looking games coming in the pipeline. I will be getting a PS3 around xmas time.

Don't forget that people love the underdog.

When you're on top there's envy.

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="Fart_Storm"]Sony might not have the sells of Nintendo, but since they will be selling 150 million PS3s this generation, I am not really worried. With the new EDGE development tools, we will be seeing increased unlocking of the Cell processor, which will make the PS3 last a long time (along with free HDD, Online, Blu Ray, bluetooth, EDGE Development tools, XMB, Playstation network, Firmware Update 3.41). Sony is outselling the 360 worldwide. Sonyshould gain market leadership back by the end of 2008, or early 2009 at latest. IronBass

At this rate (ouselling the 360 by around 200k pro week), they won't even catch the 360 in that time, less beat the Wii.

Yes they will. I have faith in Sony: join us.

I got more faith in mathematics.

:lol:. Thank you for making me lol.

It probably is the best thing to happen; no one wants a companie's successes to go to its head, and a wake up call is sorely needed.

If you look at the way console generations have panned out, could we apply the same to Sony and Microsoft? It seems all companies go from inventing a product, to refining it, letting it get to their heads, struggling to recover and then, in the case of Ninty at least, doing something risky that pays off, and probably starts the cycle all over again.

OKAY -> SUPERB -> DOWNFALL -> STRUGGLE -> RISK

NES -> SNES -> N64 -> GC -> WII

SMS -> MEGADRIVE / GENESIS -> SATURN -> DREAMCAST

PS1 -> PS2 -> PS3

XBOX -> XBOX 360

Naa, it will probably never pan out like that, but it will be interesting to see.

matchstickbaby

Saturn only struggled in America and Europe. I think Sega's real downfall was the saturn, the handhelds, and the cheap megadrive/genesis add ons all at once. Sega was supporting too many consoles, some of which completely bombed in certain regions (if not all).

It's kinda amazing how cocky Sony was back before the PS3 launched. lol.

Now they are humble, and trying. My only real gripe at the moment is the lack of communication they have with 3rd parties.

They have done a fantastic job of leading the games industry, they started off with a bang and it carried over to the PS2, Sony should be really happy with success of their platforms but there comes a time when a company needs to experience a fall in order to be better then they ever were. Really its true, if Sony recieved no bashing from the games media and gamers this gen then the success would have gone to their head and they would not be trying as best as they are now, especially with their 1st/2nd party efforts. Nintendo experienced a fall with N64 and GC thus making them understand what they are about as a company, this lead Nintendo to victory this gen. Even MS experienced a fall last gen, you can call a stepping stone to success if you like but I believe even MS didn't know that the orginal Xbox would lose them so much money. Like anything in life too much success goes to your head and you become a bad person because of it, you know snobby, arrogant etc, Sony did show this at the beginning of this gen.

Now that they know the industry is not in their hands I can see Sony not making the same mistakes they did a few years ago, it remains to be seen if they can make success out of the PS3 since it is early to tell but I am sure they will be a much better company for their next gen platform. A fall makes one reflect and come back stronger then ever, happened to Ninty and MS, it was just Sony's turn now, doesn't mean the the PS brand has failed.

This brings me to my question, do you think Sony can still bring it back within this gen or will it be next gen when the Playstation platform flourishes ?

Swift_Boss_A

To answer your question, I honestly think the PS3 will be just as great as the PS1 and 2, perhaps the best PS console yet. I realise that may sound extreme but I'm just an optimistic fellow.