Love my 360 - starting to doubt Microsoft's decision making

Let me just say this right out - as a hardcore gamer, I think the 360 is the best gaming system ever made.  The games are incredible.  Playing with my buds online is great.  That being said, I am really getting p'd off at Microsoft lately, at Live, and the future of the 360.

Why are we paying $50 for peer-to-peer gaming?  Its full of lag to the point where games are becoming a joke (host shotty in Gears). 

The cost of downloadable content over the Marketplace is to the point of ludicracy.  $6 for 3 songs?  $15 for some relit maps?  What the heck is going on?  You'd think that for $60, I'd get a TON of replay and longevity out of my games.  Yet, most times, that comes from DLC - not from the game you paid for.  Thus, you must pay AGAIN for that additional content.  Why?

$180 for a 120 GB HDD?  Who the heck is setting these prices?  Why can't I just hook up an external usb HD? 

Why come out with the Elite system now?  What message does this send to us who have the core or premium packs?  Why is it priced so high?  Instead of looking to lure in the casual gamer, they go for the hardcore-hardcore gamer.  Does this make sense???  Don't they see what Nintendo is going?  You've already got the hardcore gamer, the system needs the casuals to survive.  Maybe survive is a strong word, but you get what I mean.

Why (almost 3 years after Halo 2) is there STILL no good party/clan system on ANY 360 game?  What the heck is the TrueSkill system?  Can someone explain how this makes gaming BETTER?  To me, it stinks and it is what is keeping us from having a true clan system on any 360 game.

Cesar over at teamxbox has some of the same feelings as I do:

http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1967/AN-INCONVENIENT-TRUTH/p1

And this analyst paint the reality of the financials of the Home and Entertainment group within MS.  Makes me worry about the future of the 360 and its predessor.  I want the 360 to succeed.  I just don't see any of MS's decisions, especially lately, as to giving me much hope.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/13297/Analyst-When-Will-Microsoft-Admit-Xbox-360-is-a-Bomb/

I like the Elite actually - however it isn't a console made for everyone, it's made for those of us who want to utilize the HDMI and HDD space.

And it's black and will match my platform right next to my PS3 ^^

But no, you do not need Elite. And MS isn't forcing it down our throats. 

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

But no, you do not need Elite. And MS isn't forcing it down our throats. 

Philosoma

I know that they aren't forcing it on us, but the thing is - they just made the 360 even more hardcore.  The H&E group is losing money.  They need to look to ways to bring in a larger group of consumers.  Casuals aren't buying the 360 at a great rate (or the PS3 for that matter).  Focusing on HD graphics for both of these systems may have been a mistake (for the near term) for both of these systems.  MS needs to lower the price of the 360 Core and find a way to appeal to casual gamers (a motion sensing controller???).

I respectfully disagree with some of those points.

It is true that MS was new to gaming and got involved at a time when consoles costed much more to product. But what does it say that they beat Nintendo last gen? And even if some of this is true, they have at least made it where the Juggernaut Sony is not so dominate. PS3 isn't profitable at all. They are at least making money this time on the consoles and the attach rate.

Those articles are nothing more than blog entries.

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

Game13a13y

Through Bill Gates and Steve Jobs securing the rights to the OS of the PC - not by building hardware, consoles, etc.  The numbers don't lie - the Xbox was a losing endeavor.   The 360 is, too. 

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

 

 

 

 

Game13a13y

I dunno...maybe because they aren't? 

Although I don't find the $50 to be expensive for the online service in which I use all the time, I do believe they should lower the price.  And yes, peer to peer shouldn't be charged and Silver members should be able to utilze this in a game if the game uses peer to peer.

As for the Elite, don't know why this bothers you?  Give people more choice on what system they want.  I would of bought the Elite if it came out when I bought my premium, but really the features are something not to important to me.

As for downloadable content, no one is forcing you to buy it.  If you don't want to fork out the cash, don't.

I respectfully disagree with some of those points.

It is true that MS was new to gaming and got involved at a time when consoles costed much more to product. But what does it say that they beat Nintendo last gen? And even if some of this is true, they have at least made it where the Juggernaut Sony is not so dominate. PS3 isn't profitable at all. They are at least making money this time on the consoles and the attach rate.

Those articles are nothing more than blog entries.

d3thm0nkey

How does that change the content of the articles?

I have never trusted M$ :?

But I do like the games people make for the console.

Although I don't find the $50 to be expensive for the online service in which I use all the time, I do believe they should lower the price.  And yes, peer to peer shouldn't be charged and Silver members should be able to utilze this in a game if the game uses peer to peer.

As for the Elite, don't know why this bothers you?  Give people more choice on what system they want.  I would of bought the Elite if it came out when I bought my premium, but really the features are something not to important to me.

As for downloadable content, no one is forcing you to buy it.  If you don't want to fork out the cash, don't.

AgentVX

I thought I was pretty clear - the only reason the Elite bothers me is because it shows that Microsoft is going in the wrong direction with the 360.  They already have the hardcore gamer market.  4,000,000 copies of Gears of War and 1M copies of COD2 and GRAW prove this.  The thing is 199,000 units in March and 229,000 units in February is pretty bad.  At that rate, its only selling at about 2.5 million consoles a year.  If that continues, fewer and fewer games will be made for the system, the H&E group will continue to lose money, and we may not see an Xbox 3.  THAT is why it bothers me.

As for the DLC - I know that I don't have to buy it.  The problem is that the games we are paying $60 for are incomplete and the true replay value comes from said DLC.  If you don't buy it, you aren't getting as much value for your $60. 

Plus, why does DLC cost the same for Gold members as for Silver members?  Where are the benefits/discounts for being a Gold member?  So I can play laggy games peer-to-peer?

The simplest answer is if you dont want it, or have a problem with it dont buy the products.  For me, gaming is a major part of my personal life, so I dont mind paying more for the things I want.  This approach is better than the alternative imo, pay nothing get pretty much the same thing.  You get what you pay for (or what your willing to pay for).  And what concern of yours is it anyway about MS motives and how much they make or lose in the gaming space?  Hell if they want to spend billions of dollars on making gaming better (at a loss) then so be it.  I applaud MS for pushing the industry in the direction it needs to be going.VividScientific

Well, the problem with making statements like I did on a gaming website is that most people in these forums are hardcore gamers with gaming as a major part of their life.  They don't mind paying for these things and want the best gaming experience possible.  That being said, it doesn't appear that we hardcore gamers are a profitable endeavor for Microsoft.  Like I said before, I love the 360 for the games and I'm thrilled that MS invested their money to make it.  I just don't have much confidence in the future of the 360 (3-5 years from now).

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

 

 

Game13a13y

Their not Wal-Mart is number 1 Microsoft is number 49

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.500top50.fortune/index.html

I agree with you completely, some of these resent decisions are boneheaded. Microsoft is squandering its advantage and consumer good-will with these resent pricing decisions.  I assume the Xbox division is under tremendous pressure to make a profit otherwise it would be business as usual.  Personally, I think Microsoft is going about this the wrong way, there are better ways to make the xbox profitable without alienating gamers.  There is a huge opportunity for advertising revenue from the xbox live community.  I want to say more on this issue but I haven't worked out the details in my head yet.  I'll post more on this when have time to think about it.Natural_Mystic

I agree with you on that - I, too, believe they are under tremendous pressure to start turning a profit.  With the Xbox, it was like an open checkbook and MS's actions reflected it.  Lots of cool give-aways, free DLC, lots of tie-ins and contests with other companies (Taco Bell comes to mind).  With the 360, especially recently, it seems like things have really shifted, especially since the launch of the PS3 and Wii. 

[QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

 

 

HarlockJC

Their not Wal-Mart is number 1 Microsoft is number 49

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.500top50.fortune/index.html

Lol, ya... I was gonna say... people around here seem to think that MS is way beyond other companies or somthing...

 Bill gates isint even the richest man anymore (I thnk he's 3rd now), he just is worth alot because of his share of the company.

And sam-waltons 5 kids are each tied, and in the top 10 richest people in the world.... that gives some indication of just how big wal-mart/ sams club are. 

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

 

 

cheatymcshifty

Their not Wal-Mart is number 1 Microsoft is number 49

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.500top50.fortune/index.html

Lol, ya... I was gonna say... people around here seem to think that MS is way beyond other companies or somthing...

 Bill gates isint even the richest man anymore (I thnk he's 3rd now), he just is worth alot because of his share of the company.

And sam-waltons 5 kids are each tied, and in the top 10 richest people in the world.... that gives some indication of just how big wal-mart/ sams club are. 

well, at least they have way bigger pocket then Nintendo and Sony has.

[QUOTE="Philosoma"]

But no, you do not need Elite. And MS isn't forcing it down our throats. 

REVENGEotSITH

I know that they aren't forcing it on us, but the thing is - they just made the 360 even more hardcore.  The H&E group is losing money.  They need to look to ways to bring in a larger group of consumers.  Casuals aren't buying the 360 at a great rate (or the PS3 for that matter).  Focusing on HD graphics for both of these systems may have been a mistake (for the near term) for both of these systems.  MS needs to lower the price of the 360 Core and find a way to appeal to casual gamers (a motion sensing controller???).

It's the games that carry 360 on - even if it goes the way of the Dreamcast, it will go down with a great library of games and HDMI. Maybe MS isn't concerned with winning the hypothetic "system war". In the end, it is all about the games that we "gamers" want to play, right?

[QUOTE="cheatymcshifty"][QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

Game13a13y

Their not Wal-Mart is number 1 Microsoft is number 49

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.500top50.fortune/index.html

Lol, ya... I was gonna say... people around here seem to think that MS is way beyond other companies or somthing...

Bill gates isint even the richest man anymore (I thnk he's 3rd now), he just is worth alot because of his share of the company.

And sam-waltons 5 kids are each tied, and in the top 10 richest people in the world.... that gives some indication of just how big wal-mart/ sams club are.

well, at least they have way bigger pocket then Nintendo and Sony has.

Let me just say this right out - as a hardcore gamer, I think the 360 is the best gaming system ever made.  The games are incredible.  Playing with my buds online is great.  That being said, I am really getting p'd off at Microsoft lately, at Live, and the future of the 360.

Why are we paying $50 for peer-to-peer gaming?  Its full of lag to the point where games are becoming a joke (host shotty in Gears). 

The cost of downloadable content over the Marketplace is to the point of ludicracy.  $6 for 3 songs?  $15 for some relit maps?  What the heck is going on?  You'd think that for $60, I'd get a TON of replay and longevity out of my games.  Yet, most times, that comes from DLC - not from the game you paid for.  Thus, you must pay AGAIN for that additional content.  Why?

$180 for a 120 GB HDD?  Who the heck is setting these prices?  Why can't I just hook up an external usb HD? 

Why come out with the Elite system now?  What message does this send to us who have the core or premium packs?  Why is it priced so high?  Instead of looking to lure in the casual gamer, they go for the hardcore-hardcore gamer.  Does this make sense???  Don't they see what Nintendo is going?  You've already got the hardcore gamer, the system needs the casuals to survive.  Maybe survive is a strong word, but you get what I mean.

Why (almost 3 years after Halo 2) is there STILL no good party/clan system on ANY 360 game?  What the heck is the TrueSkill system?  Can someone explain how this makes gaming BETTER?  To me, it stinks and it is what is keeping us from having a true clan system on any 360 game.

Cesar over at teamxbox has some of the same feelings as I do:

http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1967/AN-INCONVENIENT-TRUTH/p1

And this analyst paint the reality of the financials of the Home and Entertainment group within MS.  Makes me worry about the future of the 360 and its predessor.  I want the 360 to succeed.  I just don't see any of MS's decisions, especially lately, as to giving me much hope.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/13297/Analyst-When-Will-Microsoft-Admit-Xbox-360-is-a-Bomb/

 

REVENGEotSITH

[QUOTE="cheatymcshifty"][QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

and how the heck did you think Microsoft become THE richest company on earth?

 

 

Game13a13y

Their not Wal-Mart is number 1 Microsoft is number 49

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.500top50.fortune/index.html

Lol, ya... I was gonna say... people around here seem to think that MS is way beyond other companies or somthing...

 Bill gates isint even the richest man anymore (I thnk he's 3rd now), he just is worth alot because of his share of the company.

And sam-waltons 5 kids are each tied, and in the top 10 richest people in the world.... that gives some indication of just how big wal-mart/ sams club are. 

well, at least they have way bigger pocket then Nintendo and Sony has.

They won't if they keep losing money on the 360.....Also Sony just report that they are having their best year in the last 5 years...And Nintendo stock is the highest it ever been....So yes you are right M$ has a lot more money but the Zune and the 360 is costing them a lot right now

I agree completely.  Before I buy a 360 I need a price drop with premium at 300 and the cooler running chip.  Microsoft is in the perfect position to put the killing blow on PS3 if they would just lower their price point and take care of the technical issues(ie overheating) with their machine.newportdadde

I agree that they need to do this - but they won't.  Just look at their price-point of the Elite and the 120 GB HDD.  That was a perfect time to drop the price of the core and premium, but they didn't and gave a bunch of pr bs about why they priced the HDD like they did.  They are trying feverishly to turn a profit (desperately and at our expense, if I might add) and their recent actions prove this.

Peer to peer online gaming should be free, for $50 gold members ( :lol: ) should get dedicated servers and downloadable content is optional.thirstychainsaw

Agree.  I almost choked when I read the recent interview with Peter Moore (April EGM) where he said that he hadn't met anyone that had a problem with paying $50 for Live - "not a single one".  He obviously hasn't talked to too many people outside of Microsoft's offices...

Its obvious to me that MS are worried about losing so much money on the X360 like they did with the Xbox that they are basically charging for whatever they can really- i mean they could enable online play over Silver membership but they know that loads of ppl would fail to renew their Gold membership & go for the Silver membership. they are also charging over-the-odds prices for peripherals such as the HDD because they want to maximise profit & they know they can to some extent get away with it.CwlHeddwyn

Yep - with no 3rd party HDDs available, they can pretty much charge whatever they want.