MGS:TS The black sheep of the series?

Is MGS:The Twin Snakes (GameCube) and good representation of the MGS series?

People go on and on about how this series is so great, how all of them are classics, but based on this game, for the life of me I can't see it.

-Lame dialog. As slick/cool as the cutscenes are, as soon as the dialog starts, I tune out. It's like a 14-year-old wrote this stuff, lame sexual inuendo and all. "You're on a SNEAKING MISSION". Did they really just say that? I can't keep a straight face when they talk, and it's sad that they actually make it sound serious. Snake almost makes Jack Carver (Far Cry) seem like an Oscar winner.

-Poor camera angles. At first I thought "Hmm, this is a bit cooler than Thief of Splinter Cell, I can't just hide in a shadow one foot away from the bad guy. I actually have to stay out of view!"... until I realized I can't see more than a few feet in front of me, unless I use the clunky first-person view.

-Pac-man gameplay...except with bad camera angles. Did this assasin/commando really sneak into this enemy base with nothing but a radio? Is he really unable to put these baddies to rest for more then 10 seconds? Did he watch too many Chuck Norris movies with that spin kick? Get me Jack Bauer, this guy has no idea what he's doing. At least Pac-Man has good vision, eats healthy (fruits), and can WTFPWN ghosts.

Now I expect some flaming based on this, but hear me out. I haven't played any of the other games, so maybe this one just sucks.

When I see MGS4 gameplay, it actually looks good/cool. Over-the-shoulder camera a-la RE4/SC hopefully means no camera angle problems. The dialog in the trailer seems a lot less cheesy with better voice acting. I'm hopeful for MGS4, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (/Mugatu) when people say this is the greatest series ever.

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

PS3Compass

Id say go with mgs3 subsistence. It allows more freedom with the camera, has the best graphics, and being the most recent of the series has improved in most ways, including diologue. However, it sounds like you may just not be into what this series is about, it aint your fault.

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

PS3Compass

The game is exactly the same with better graphics and new cutscenes.

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

PS3Compass

and it's a remake of the first game with the same gameplay and dialog... with some updates...

I don't see the problem...

Look MGS: Twin Snakes is a very decent representation of MGS for the PS1. Its a good game to play if your curious about the story but not a hardcore fan because lets face it, going to play MGS on the PS1 is something only a true fan would do, otherwise the graphics fall is just too much for casuals to get in to.

I own both.

[QUOTE="PS3Compass"]

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

JLF1

The game is exactly the same with better graphics and new cutscenes.

no its not the same game

same story? yes but a bit hardder to follow due to changes in diaologe

[QUOTE="PS3Compass"]

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

JLF1

The game is exactly the same with better graphics and new cutscenes.

Yeah, but problems like that were acceptable back in the days :P

Nothing to do with Silicon Knights, they made a (relatively) faithful remake.

Is MGS:The Twin Snakes (GameCube) and good representation of the MGS series?

People go on and on about how this series is so great, how all of them are classics, but based on this game, for the life of me I can't see it.

-Lame dialog. As slick/cool as the cutscenes are, as soon as the dialog starts, I tune out. It's like a 14-year-old wrote this stuff, lame sexual inuendo and all. "You're on a SNEAKING MISSION". Did they really just say that? I can't keep a straight face when they talk, and it's sad that they actually make it sound serious. Snake almost makes Jack Carver (Far Cry) seem like an Oscar winner.

-Poor camera angles. At first I thought "Hmm, this is a bit cooler than Thief of Splinter Cell, I can't just hide in a shadow one foot away from the bad guy. I actually have to stay out of view!"... until I realized I can't see more than a few feet in front of me, unless I use the clunky first-person view.

-Pac-man gameplay...except with bad camera angles. Did this assasin/commando really sneak into this enemy base with nothing but a radio? Is he really unable to put these baddies to rest for more then 10 seconds? Did he watch too many Chuck Norris movies with that spin kick? Get me Jack Bauer, this guy has no idea what he's doing. At least Pac-Man has good vision, eats healthy (fruits), and can WTFPWN ghosts.

Now I expect some flaming based on this, but hear me out. I haven't played any of the other games, so maybe this one just sucks.

When I see MGS4 gameplay, it actually looks good/cool. Over-the-shoulder camera a-la RE4/SC hopefully means no camera angle problems. The dialog in the trailer seems a lot less cheesy with better voice acting. I'm hopeful for MGS4, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (/Mugatu) when people say this is the greatest series ever.

phatrawk

Sad thing is that this game you are talking about is the best in the series lol! MGear SUCKS!!! I played that one a little and MGS2 all the way through and you are so right about the story. Kojima is hailed a genious for storytelling( by cows) and I can't see why. Sons of Liberty had one of the most laughably convoluted, unbleivable plots ever concieved for a videogame. The first game was the best and sadly the suckiness continues. Kojima is a hack and does not deserve half the credit.

[QUOTE="phatrawk"]

Is MGS:The Twin Snakes (GameCube) and good representation of the MGS series?

People go on and on about how this series is so great, how all of them are classics, but based on this game, for the life of me I can't see it.

-Lame dialog. As slick/cool as the cutscenes are, as soon as the dialog starts, I tune out. It's like a 14-year-old wrote this stuff, lame sexual inuendo and all. "You're on a SNEAKING MISSION". Did they really just say that? I can't keep a straight face when they talk, and it's sad that they actually make it sound serious. Snake almost makes Jack Carver (Far Cry) seem like an Oscar winner.

-Poor camera angles. At first I thought "Hmm, this is a bit cooler than Thief of Splinter Cell, I can't just hide in a shadow one foot away from the bad guy. I actually have to stay out of view!"... until I realized I can't see more than a few feet in front of me, unless I use the clunky first-person view.

-Pac-man gameplay...except with bad camera angles. Did this assasin/commando really sneak into this enemy base with nothing but a radio? Is he really unable to put these baddies to rest for more then 10 seconds? Did he watch too many Chuck Norris movies with that spin kick? Get me Jack Bauer, this guy has no idea what he's doing. At least Pac-Man has good vision, eats healthy (fruits), and can WTFPWN ghosts.

Now I expect some flaming based on this, but hear me out. I haven't played any of the other games, so maybe this one just sucks.

When I see MGS4 gameplay, it actually looks good/cool. Over-the-shoulder camera a-la RE4/SC hopefully means no camera angle problems. The dialog in the trailer seems a lot less cheesy with better voice acting. I'm hopeful for MGS4, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (/Mugatu) when people say this is the greatest series ever.

L1qu1dSword

Sad thing is that this game you are talking about is the best in the series lol! MGear SUCKS!!! I played that one a little and MGS2 all the way through and you are so right about the story. Kojima is hailed a genious for storytelling( by cows) and I can't see why. Sons of Liberty had one of the most laughably convoluted, unbleivable plots ever concieved for a videogame. The first game was the best and sadly the suckiness continues. Kojima is a hack and does not deserve half the credit.

lol, Gears of War had the worse gameplay and worse level design and terrible bland graphics.

Epic is a hack and doesn't deserve credit.

See, we can all play that game :D

the onley game I thought was bad was METAL GEAR for the msx/subsistence port

it had terrible gameplay and sneaking was very hard because guards coul;d see in like all 4 directions

and when yer seen its likely you are dead because yer enemys instaintly gain a 2x speed boost and when you touch them you take damage and they shoot even when their lokking behind

Sad thing is that this game you are talking about is the best in the series lol! MGear SUCKS!!! I played that one a little and MGS2 all the way through and you are so right about the story. Kojima is hailed a genious for storytelling( by cows) and I can't see why. Sons of Liberty had one of the most laughably convoluted, unbleivable plots ever concievedfor a videogame. The first game was the best and sadly the suckiness continues. Kojima is a hack and does not deserve half the credit.

L1qu1dSword

You are just pointing that out as negative for whatever the reason, some others actually liked that and know how it was actually the point of the game. That's what made it great.

As for TTS, is not that bad but I wouldn't take it over the first one for several reasons also, it didn't bring anything new other than the MGS2 copypasta to be called a great remake.

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="phatrawk"]

Is MGS:The Twin Snakes (GameCube) and good representation of the MGS series?

People go on and on about how this series is so great, how all of them are classics, but based on this game, for the life of me I can't see it.

-Lame dialog. As slick/cool as the cutscenes are, as soon as the dialog starts, I tune out. It's like a 14-year-old wrote this stuff, lame sexual inuendo and all. "You're on a SNEAKING MISSION". Did they really just say that? I can't keep a straight face when they talk, and it's sad that they actually make it sound serious. Snake almost makes Jack Carver (Far Cry) seem like an Oscar winner.

-Poor camera angles. At first I thought "Hmm, this is a bit cooler than Thief of Splinter Cell, I can't just hide in a shadow one foot away from the bad guy. I actually have to stay out of view!"... until I realized I can't see more than a few feet in front of me, unless I use the clunky first-person view.

-Pac-man gameplay...except with bad camera angles. Did this assasin/commando really sneak into this enemy base with nothing but a radio? Is he really unable to put these baddies to rest for more then 10 seconds? Did he watch too many Chuck Norris movies with that spin kick? Get me Jack Bauer, this guy has no idea what he's doing. At least Pac-Man has good vision, eats healthy (fruits), and can WTFPWN ghosts.

Now I expect some flaming based on this, but hear me out. I haven't played any of the other games, so maybe this one just sucks.

When I see MGS4 gameplay, it actually looks good/cool. Over-the-shoulder camera a-la RE4/SC hopefully means no camera angle problems. The dialog in the trailer seems a lot less cheesy with better voice acting. I'm hopeful for MGS4, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (/Mugatu) when people say this is the greatest series ever.

Pietrooper

Sad thing is that this game you are talking about is the best in the series lol! MGear SUCKS!!! I played that one a little and MGS2 all the way through and you are so right about the story. Kojima is hailed a genious for storytelling( by cows) and I can't see why. Sons of Liberty had one of the most laughably convoluted, unbleivable plots ever concieved for a videogame. The first game was the best and sadly the suckiness continues. Kojima is a hack and does not deserve half the credit.

lol, Gears of War had the worse gameplay and worse level design and terrible bland graphics.

Epic is a hack and doesn't deserve credit.

See, we can all play that game :D

lol say what you want about Gears. its not like your credibillity wouldn't completely drop to zero by saying it has "terrible graphics" or anything would it. oh yeah your playing the knee jerk reaction game mistakingly thinking I was doing the same. sorry man i call em like I see em. I wanted to throw the controller at the TV when Sons of Liberty was over. I cannot stress how incredibly STUPID the story for that game was. Gameplay was allright but stealth games in general are not nearly as cool as they used to be.

[QUOTE="Pietrooper"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="phatrawk"]

Is MGS:The Twin Snakes (GameCube) and good representation of the MGS series?

People go on and on about how this series is so great, how all of them are classics, but based on this game, for the life of me I can't see it.

-Lame dialog. As slick/cool as the cutscenes are, as soon as the dialog starts, I tune out. It's like a 14-year-old wrote this stuff, lame sexual inuendo and all. "You're on a SNEAKING MISSION". Did they really just say that? I can't keep a straight face when they talk, and it's sad that they actually make it sound serious. Snake almost makes Jack Carver (Far Cry) seem like an Oscar winner.

-Poor camera angles. At first I thought "Hmm, this is a bit cooler than Thief of Splinter Cell, I can't just hide in a shadow one foot away from the bad guy. I actually have to stay out of view!"... until I realized I can't see more than a few feet in front of me, unless I use the clunky first-person view.

-Pac-man gameplay...except with bad camera angles. Did this assasin/commando really sneak into this enemy base with nothing but a radio? Is he really unable to put these baddies to rest for more then 10 seconds? Did he watch too many Chuck Norris movies with that spin kick? Get me Jack Bauer, this guy has no idea what he's doing. At least Pac-Man has good vision, eats healthy (fruits), and can WTFPWN ghosts.

Now I expect some flaming based on this, but hear me out. I haven't played any of the other games, so maybe this one just sucks.

When I see MGS4 gameplay, it actually looks good/cool. Over-the-shoulder camera a-la RE4/SC hopefully means no camera angle problems. The dialog in the trailer seems a lot less cheesy with better voice acting. I'm hopeful for MGS4, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (/Mugatu) when people say this is the greatest series ever.

L1qu1dSword

Sad thing is that this game you are talking about is the best in the series lol! MGear SUCKS!!! I played that one a little and MGS2 all the way through and you are so right about the story. Kojima is hailed a genious for storytelling( by cows) and I can't see why. Sons of Liberty had one of the most laughably convoluted, unbleivable plots ever concieved for a videogame. The first game was the best and sadly the suckiness continues. Kojima is a hack and does not deserve half the credit.

lol, Gears of War had the worse gameplay and worse level design and terrible bland graphics.

Epic is a hack and doesn't deserve credit.

See, we can all play that game :D

lol say what you want about Gears. its not like your credibillity wouldn't completely drop to zero by saying it has "terrible graphics" or anything would it. oh yeah your playing the knee jerk reaction game mistakingly thinking I was doing the same. sorry man i call em like I see em. I wanted to throw the controller at the TV when Sons of Liberty was over. I cannot stress how incredibly STUPID the story for that game was. Gameplay was allright but stealth games in general are not nearly as cool as they used to be.

I said Bland, not bad. :P

Frankly, I love GeoW but I knew that would bring you out.

I said Bland, not bad. :P

Frankly, I love GeoW but I knew that would bring you out.

dude you didnt "bring me out." it was too obvious what you were doing for me to really care. also i think "terrible" is synonymous with "bad."

besides that the mgs4 graphics look far worse then gears. everything is cast through a sickening greenish yellow tint and the textures are far inferior to Gears. your only making MG worse by bringing this game up.

L1qu1dSword

I said Bland, not bad. :P

Frankly, I love GeoW but I knew that would bring you out.

dude you didnt "bring me out." it was too obvious what you were doing for me to really care. also i think "terrible" is synonymous with "bad."

besides that the mgs4 graphics look far worse then gears. everything is cast through a sickening greenish yellow tint and the textures are far inferior to Gears. your only making MG worse by bringing this game up.

They removed that:

See latest MGS4 Trailer.

MGSTS is probably what MGS was supposed to be like if the PS could have handled what Kojima wanted *looks at MGS2 and 3*...yeah it's defintely the way MGS was supposed to be...

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

PS3Compass

Then why it is that TS resembles MGS2 and 3 more closely than the original? It doesn't matter who made it, the lengthy exposition and well...basically everything that people claim ruined TS are exactly what Kojima himself is infamous for putting into his games.

I absolutely hated Twin Snakes when I first played it through. The cutscenes were way too over the top even for MGS and, as someone already pointed out - the music was changed and the game lost something because of that. However, I've played twin snakes recently and I've come to like it a lot more. I personally prefer the original, but I can also play Twin Snakes when can't take squares-for-eyes :P

Oh, and as for the black sheep of the series, I think that firmly goes to Snake Eater. The snake we know isn't anywhere in the game, none of the bosses have a backstory and are just far too silly (a man who fires bees at you? SERIOUSLY?:roll:) and you have to constantly change camo (gets tedious after a while)

Is MGS:The Twin Snakes (GameCube) and good representation of the MGS series?

People go on and on about how this series is so great, how all of them are classics, but based on this game, for the life of me I can't see it.

-Lame dialog. As slick/cool as the cutscenes are, as soon as the dialog starts, I tune out. It's like a 14-year-old wrote this stuff, lame sexual inuendo and all. "You're on a SNEAKING MISSION". Did they really just say that? I can't keep a straight face when they talk, and it's sad that they actually make it sound serious. Snake almost makes Jack Carver (Far Cry) seem like an Oscar winner.

-Poor camera angles. At first I thought "Hmm, this is a bit cooler than Thief of Splinter Cell, I can't just hide in a shadow one foot away from the bad guy. I actually have to stay out of view!"... until I realized I can't see more than a few feet in front of me, unless I use the clunky first-person view.

-Pac-man gameplay...except with bad camera angles. Did this assasin/commando really sneak into this enemy base with nothing but a radio? Is he really unable to put these baddies to rest for more then 10 seconds? Did he watch too many Chuck Norris movies with that spin kick? Get me Jack Bauer, this guy has no idea what he's doing. At least Pac-Man has good vision, eats healthy (fruits), and can WTFPWN ghosts.

Now I expect some flaming based on this, but hear me out. I haven't played any of the other games, so maybe this one just sucks.

When I see MGS4 gameplay, it actually looks good/cool. Over-the-shoulder camera a-la RE4/SC hopefully means no camera angle problems. The dialog in the trailer seems a lot less cheesy with better voice acting. I'm hopeful for MGS4, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (/Mugatu) when people say this is the greatest series ever.

phatrawk

the game was a remake of the first one from the PSone. I dont think its a good representation, because, the game wasnt actually changed from the original, still at the standards of a ps1 game, all they did was make the graphics better, and let you do what you could do in MGS2.(hiding in lockers,etc....)

I absolutely hated Twin Snakes when I first played it through. The cutscenes were way too over the top even for MGS and, as someone already pointed out - the music was changed and the game lost something because of that. However, I've played twin snakes recently and I've come to like it a lot more. I personally prefer the original, but I can also play Twin Snakes when can't take squares-for-eyes :P

Oh, and as for the black sheep of the series, I think that firmly goes to Snake Eater. The snake we know isn't anywhere in the game, none of the bosses have a backstory and are just far too silly (a man who fires bees at you? SERIOUSLY?:roll:) and you have to constantly change camo (gets tedious after a while)

manicfoot

im with you on this one man, not only did the camo get tedious for me as well, but after awhile I hated healing myself and constantly forced to eat things...it was cool at first, but it gets too repetitive after awhile. Id rather play it old school style (mgs1&2 gameplay without having to constantly use camo and eat food). MGS4 looks to fix this by making the camo apply itself with the push of a button. i cant wait for mgs4 :D

I absolutely hated Twin Snakes when I first played it through. The cutscenes were way too over the top even for MGS and, as someone already pointed out - the music was changed and the game lost something because of that. However, I've played twin snakes recently and I've come to like it a lot more. I personally prefer the original, but I can also play Twin Snakes when can't take squares-for-eyes :P

Oh, and as for the black sheep of the series, I think that firmly goes to Snake Eater. The snake we know isn't anywhere in the game, none of the bosses have a backstory and are just far too silly (a man who fires bees at you? SERIOUSLY?:roll:) and you have to constantly change camo (gets tedious after a while)

manicfoot

[QUOTE="manicfoot"]

I absolutely hated Twin Snakes when I first played it through. The cutscenes were way too over the top even for MGS and, as someone already pointed out - the music was changed and the game lost something because of that. However, I've played twin snakes recently and I've come to like it a lot more. I personally prefer the original, but I can also play Twin Snakes when can't take squares-for-eyes :P

Oh, and as for the black sheep of the series, I think that firmly goes to Snake Eater. The snake we know isn't anywhere in the game, none of the bosses have a backstory and are just far too silly (a man who fires bees at you? SERIOUSLY?:roll:) and you have to constantly change camo (gets tedious after a while)

rexCo

I see where you're coming from and respect your opinion, but I loved the convulted MGS2 storyline and how it completely messes with your head towards the end. It is one of my favourite moments in gaming ever :)
I really tried to like MGS3, but I couldn't get over the bosses not having anything to do with the story because that was one of the massive hooks for me in the previous games. Fatman may have been a pretty silly boss, but the build up with Stillman and the bombs was immense and gave me an emotional connection to the absurdity (is that a word? :P) of the boss fight. While I admit the story with Eva and The Boss was good, the tediousness of constantly healing yourself, changing camo and bosses mindlessly yelling their names ("FEAARRRRRR") just killed it for me. I preferred the pick up and play gameplay of the others.

[QUOTE="rexCo"][QUOTE="manicfoot"]

I absolutely hated Twin Snakes when I first played it through. The cutscenes were way too over the top even for MGS and, as someone already pointed out - the music was changed and the game lost something because of that. However, I've played twin snakes recently and I've come to like it a lot more. I personally prefer the original, but I can also play Twin Snakes when can't take squares-for-eyes :P

Oh, and as for the black sheep of the series, I think that firmly goes to Snake Eater. The snake we know isn't anywhere in the game, none of the bosses have a backstory and are just far too silly (a man who fires bees at you? SERIOUSLY?:roll:) and you have to constantly change camo (gets tedious after a while)

manicfoot

I see where you're coming from and respect your opinion, but I loved the convulted MGS2 storyline and how it completely messes with your head towards the end. It is one of my favourite moments in gaming ever :)
I really tried to like MGS3, but I couldn't get over the bosses not having anything to do with the story because that was one of the massive hooks for me in the previous games. Fatman may have been a pretty silly boss, but the build up with Stillman and the bombs was immense and gave me an emotional connection to the absurdity (is that a word? :P) of the boss fight. While I admit the story with Eva and The Boss was good, the tediousness of constantly healing yourself, changing camo and bosses mindlessly yelling their names ("FEAARRRRRR") just killed it for me. I preferred the pick up and play gameplay of the others.

So which other one from the series should I try?phatrawk

[QUOTE="phatrawk"]So which other one from the series should I try?l-_-l

TS was a great remake, that some people just have problems with for some unknown reason to me... I loved TS... and am a big MGS fan.

[QUOTE="l-_-l"][QUOTE="phatrawk"]So which other one from the series should I try?GundamGuy0

TS was a great remake, that some people just have problems with for some unknown reason to me... I loved TS... and am a big MGS fan.

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"]

[QUOTE="l-_-l"][QUOTE="phatrawk"]So which other one from the series should I try?l-_-l

TS was a great remake, that some people just have problems with for some unknown reason to me... I loved TS... and am a big MGS fan.

TS has all the things that were in MGS, in the exact same places too. But they over did some stuff, and killed other more emotional moments, as Grey battling Rex

I hate to assume, but I would say that's perhaps cause of your age.

Even tho it's a remake, I think older gamers appreciate it more than youngens due to the initial impact the gameplay and story had on us when the Metal Gear series was introduced to the PlayStation and that's what we, or at least I, remember. Never before have we played like that or Tenchu back then, but now, youngers gamers are introduced to the idea and gameplay of espionage/black ops with more recent titles, so when you play a classic or remake of an older title, you probably wont see what's all the hype about.

[QUOTE="PS3Compass"]

The problem is Silicon Knights made it, and not Kojima.

JLF1

The game is exactly the same with better graphics and new cutscenes.