Modern RPGs...Crap?

Lately, the RPG genre has been stagnant with little to NO innovation as well as crappy renditions of the proven formulas laid down by SSI, Troika, and Bioware.

Most RPGs now have little to no choices and consequences, they're simple, and the character development is laughable by Fallout standards. I am one of those people who truly think that the 90s were the hayday of RPG gaming, and many RPG fans seem to agree.

Nowadays, it seems that TES: OBlivion or Mass Effect is the de facto standard for RPGs and it's sad. They don't offer ANYTHING that Fallout didn't besides a major graphical overhaul and in most ways they offer less. Choices and consequences are non-existant, writing is poor(Mass Effect might be the exception), Storylines are ass, combat is mindless as is the gameplay, and the overall depth is lacking.

I'm playing Baldur's Gate right now and I'm litterly dumbfounded by how developers could have forgotten this perfect formula.

So I'm curious, does anyone on here agree with me, have RPGs been getting crappier?

The Witcher is really good with Choice and Consequence, even better than many of the classic RPG's in that area.

But I agree overall, many modern WRGP's are shallow.

RPG's arn't as popular as they used to be. NFS102

Unfortunately, this is true and RPG is my favorite genre.

Crisis Core, The Wrold Ends With You, Persona 3 , yeah modern rpgs are crap :roll:blitzkid1

I think I'm more referring to Western RPGs. JRPGs are in a good state but they were never the ones that pushed the envelope in comparison to Western RPGs. They didn't allow choices and consequences in the 1980s with the arrival of Ultima 4, they didn't allow for intense flexibility in modifying your character like in Fallout, and they surely didn't incorporate the intricities of a living world like Baldur's Gate did.

Evolution?

I love Mass Effect, my bro loves Guild Wars.

Yes I agree with all of this. I never played any of the "amazing" rpgs like Fallout and Baldur's Gate but even though I don't have anything to compare the modern rpgs to, I still feel like they are lacking big time. I mean Mass Effect was supposed to be all about your choices affecting the galaxy but it all boiled down to 1 choice at the end as with most games. Hell, GTA 4 had a lot more choices than Mass Effect and there actually was a real impact with most of them.

Also most games seem to be watered down like Bioshock, System Shock 2 came out like 10 years before and people still claim that it was better gameplay wise. Everything is just so shallow and mainstream it feels like.

Well I loved Mass Effect, but the next real WRPG is, what? November for Fallout 3? Then December-ish for Fable 2? We really don't get enough WRPG's to really judge them.

JRPG wise we had Lost Odyssey, The World Ends With You, and such.

There have always been crappy RPG in any given gaming gen, and there will always will.

It's true that RPG's from the defunct Blackisle where magnificent, but it's not like all RPGs were like Blackisle's or Bioware's.

Oblivion and mass effect are alot of things, crap is not one of them.Doctor-Salvador

I disagree. I hated Oblivion, while Mass Effect was great and I love it, but the title felt unfinished.

Oblivion and mass effect are alot of things, crap is not one of them.Doctor-Salvador

They are Shallow, very Shallow...both Claim to offer choice, and yet neither have any actual choice.

[QUOTE="Doctor-Salvador"]Oblivion and mass effect are alot of things, crap is not one of them.millwrought

I disagree. I hated Oblivion, while Mass Effect was great and I love it, but the title felt unfinished.

Even if you disliked Oblivion, it was still a technically well-made game with a lot of effort put into it. Mass effect is a good, but flawed, game.

There have always been crappy RPG in any given gaming gen, and there will always will.

It's true that RPG's from the defunct Blackisle where magnificent, but it's not like all RPGs were like Blackisle's or Bioware's.

Panzer_Zwei

Not necessarily. In the late 80s-early 90s, you had Betrayal at Krondor, Wizardry 7, Wasteland, Ultima 6, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, Eye of the Beholder 1, 2 and 3, Pool of Radiance, and the list just goes on and one. The late 90s saw the releases of Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Diablo, Planescape Torment, as well as a few other smaller releases that became cult-hits.

It's true that not ALL of the RPGs from then were good but the ratio of good/bad was more biased towards good then bad compared to know where it's quite the opposite from where I stand.

Oblivion and mass effect are alot of things, crap is not one of them.Doctor-Salvador

Entirely subjective. ;)

ME is one thing, but some people seriously thought Oblivion was shallow? I said Wow, some peoples opinions must be purposely wrong for a reason...Vaan7

Oblivion was barely an RPG...it was just an action game more than anything.

it was extreamly shallow compared to Fallout 2, Planetscape, baulders gate...etc.

Lost Odyssey is incredible. :)

ME is one thing, but some people seriously thought Oblivion was shallow? I said Wow, some peoples opinions must be purposely wrong for a reason...Vaan7

How come I can't kill Martin when I can kill "the master" in Fallout? How come every quest requires fighting when I can defeat "the master" through dialog? How come no one responds towards your actions? How come you can't join Mehrunes Dagon? How come the combat is player-focused when ideally it should be character focused hence the need for stats? How come you can join all the guilds and no one will care?

Of course it's shallow.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

There have always been crappy RPG in any given gaming gen, and there will always will.

It's true that RPG's from the defunct Blackisle where magnificent, but it's not like all RPGs were like Blackisle's or Bioware's.

VoodooGamer

Not necessarily. In the late 80s-early 90s, you had Betrayal at Krondor, Wizardry 7, Wasteland, Ultima 6, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, Eye of the Beholder 1, 2 and 3, Pool of Radiance, and the list just goes on and one. The late 90s saw the releases of Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Diablo, Planescape Torment, as well as a few other smaller releases that became cult-hits.

It's true that not ALL of the RPGs from then were good but the ratio of good/bad was more biased towards good then bad compared to know where it's quite the opposite from where I stand.

Just try to fill all of the spaces of the games you mentioned with the RPGs of this gen thus far whether they be good or bad, You'd be hard pressed.

I also believe that Pool of Radiance was quite poor. Actually I remember it was hardly even playable until the second or third patch was release.

I think if we dig hard enough we'll find that most genre's are a bit stale in the inovation catagory. RPG's are put under a brighter light because they're supposed to offer compelling stories as well as great gameplay... I loved Mass Effect for its story and replayability. I see that as an inovation. Its the first RPG I wanted to play over and over... change moves slower in this genre.
colmusterd28

I dunno, Mass Effect's story felt like merely one chapter in one of the roleplaying epics from the 90s such as Baldur's Gate.

[QUOTE="Vaan7"]ME is one thing, but some people seriously thought Oblivion was shallow? I said Wow, some peoples opinions must be purposely wrong for a reason...VoodooGamer

How come I can't kill Martin when I can kill "the master" in Fallout? How come every quest requires fighting when I can defeat "the master" through dialog? How come no one responds towards your actions? How come you can't join Mehrunes Dagon? How come the combat is player-focused when ideally it should be character focused hence the need for stats? How come you can join all the guilds and no one will care?

Of course it's shallow.

And why can't they just fly instead of walk? Its a game, stop taking it so seriously or go spend your time on something a little more productive.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

There have always been crappy RPG in any given gaming gen, and there will always will.

It's true that RPG's from the defunct Blackisle where magnificent, but it's not like all RPGs were like Blackisle's or Bioware's.

Panzer_Zwei

Not necessarily. In the late 80s-early 90s, you had Betrayal at Krondor, Wizardry 7, Wasteland, Ultima 6, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, Eye of the Beholder 1, 2 and 3, Pool of Radiance, and the list just goes on and one. The late 90s saw the releases of Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Diablo, Planescape Torment, as well as a few other smaller releases that became cult-hits.

It's true that not ALL of the RPGs from then were good but the ratio of good/bad was more biased towards good then bad compared to know where it's quite the opposite from where I stand.

No I split it up between Early 90s and late 90s which is fair considering that both had time frames of 5-6 years.

Just try to fill all of the spaces of the games you mentioned with the RPGs of this gen thus far whether they be good or bad, You'd be hard pressed.Panzer

I'd be hard-pressed to find a good one.

I also believe that Pool of Radiance was quite poor. Actually I remember it was hardly even playable until the second or third patch was release.

Panzer

You're thinking of the third game which wasn't well recieved by anyone.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="Vaan7"]ME is one thing, but some people seriously thought Oblivion was shallow? I said Wow, some peoples opinions must be purposely wrong for a reason...Vaan7

How come I can't kill Martin when I can kill "the master" in Fallout? How come every quest requires fighting when I can defeat "the master" through dialog? How come no one responds towards your actions? How come you can't join Mehrunes Dagon? How come the combat is player-focused when ideally it should be character focused hence the need for stats? How come you can join all the guilds and no one will care?

Of course it's shallow.

And why can't they just fly instead of walk? Its a game, stop taking it so seriously or go spend your time on something a little more productive.

Excuse me? I think you better watch your tongue fella, you don't know me so don't talk to me as if you can provide even an ounce of respectable advice. What is more, by your logic, any complaints are invalid which means this thread probably isn't for you. ;)

NO innovation

VoodooGamer

Most over used and overrated statement used by fans and media this generation.

I am sick of hearing about all this "lack of innovation" crap.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

NO innovation

CajunShooter

Most over used and overrated statement used by fans and media this generation.

I am sick of hearing about all this "lack of innovation" crap.

I think "over-rated" is over-rated. ;)

[QUOTE="CajunShooter"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

NO innovation

VoodooGamer

Most over used and overrated statement used by fans and media this generation.

I am sick of hearing about all this "lack of innovation" crap.

I think "over-rated" is over-rated. ;)

Normally I look the stuff up to make sure I spell it right and such, but I really didn't care that much

No I split it up between Early 90s and late 90s which is fair considering that both had time frames of 5-6 years. VoodooGamer

But it's all the same, the RPG release ratio is still way behind as of yet. Even when compared individually.

I'd be hard-pressed to find a good one. VoodooGamer

You're thinking of the third game which wasn't well recieved by anyone.

VoodooGamer

Crisis Core, The Wrold Ends With You, Persona 3 , yeah modern rpgs are crap :roll:blitzkid1