More power = Better Physics + AI = Better gameplay.

Oh no, your going to have to wright up a summary for us coach patato's :(sadikovic

"Lemmings and cows go on about how physics and AI that the Wii can't do enhance the gameplay of certian games. However, there has been no game on those platforms this gen that show off this proposed advanced physics and AI"

That's basically the summary.

So by your logic by increasing my power, and increasing my intellegence. I can greater my gaming skill?

Little Big Planet.

/thread

lol so basically he is saying teh cells powa pwns 360 games cuz of games like lair :lol:amorbis1001

WTF are you talking about?

That has nothing to do with this topic.

I suggest you reread it :P

[QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol so basically he is saying teh cells powa pwns 360 games cuz of games like lair :lol:sexy_chimp

WTF are you talking about?

That has nothing to do with this topic.

I suggest you reread it :P

I suggest that you stop suggesting others. :x

[QUOTE="sadikovic"]Oh no, your going to have to wright up a summary for us coach patato's :(sexy_chimp

"Lemmings and cows go on about how physics and AI that the Wii can't do enhance the gameplay of certian games. However, there has been no game on those platforms this gen that show off this proposed advanced physics and AI"

That's basically the summary.

Thanks for the summary. anyways i partly agree with the TC.

[QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol so basically he is saying teh cells powa pwns 360 games cuz of games like lair :lol:sexy_chimp

WTF are you talking about?

That has nothing to do with this topic.

I suggest you reread it :P

ok leme rephrase

lol so basically he is saying teh wii powa pwns 360 games cuz of games like wiinja bread man

a next-gen game with impressive AI? Resistance.

I don't know how we are supposed to compare gameplay? How do you rate gameplay? A game is either fun or its not, its either broken or its not.

If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. agentfred

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsW_mqPUFoKill.Switch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPC_ibBJiQGears of war

You can watch the videos and see how the enemies react differently. In kill.switch the enemies in the most part run from a building straight to a place of cover, then once there never leave. While in Gears of war you can see the enemies try to advance and if fired upon move back to cover. As well you can see enemies trying to engage in melee combat if the player gets to close in gears of war, while in Kill.Switch enemies just stop when the player advanced on them. Also in the video you can see the enemies trying to attack the player from behind in gears of war rather than just rush the player. As well in the kill.Switch video its easy to see that most enemies run along a straight path which was set for them. Once an enemy is killed another enemy will run along the same path as before.

I'll end this topic right about now.

Portal.

/thread

Dead Rising FTW

The only reason AI in games is stupid in most cases, its because the developers are to laze to re-invent the wheel, and not the lack of power.loky4000

That's like saying that developers are too lazy to utilise the Wiimote properly. Sheep are not allowed to use that excuse for some odd reason, though, so why should cows and lemmings be allowed to?

This thread is a bit general, isn't it ?

You don't need great physics and AI for it to be a good game. Most of the games on the Wii have neither and are still ejoyable to some degree.

[QUOTE="agentfred"]If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. Oscar-Wilde

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

extreamly large enviroments that are completly non-linnear...according to 1up, they are by far larger then any other game they have ever seen.

AI... they are completly non-scripted...but act realititclly and dynamiclly....

and of course...this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsW_mqPUFoKill.Switch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPC_ibBJiQGears of war

You can watch the videos and see how the enemies react differently. In kill.switch the enemies in the most part run from a building straight to a place of cover, then once there never leave. While in Gears of war you can see the enemies try to advance and if fired upon move back to cover. As well you can see enemies trying to engage in melee combat if the player gets to close in gears of war, while in Kill.Switch enemies just stop when the player advanced on them. Also in the video you can see the enemies trying to attack the player from behind in gears of war rather than just rush the player. As well in the kill.Switch video its easy to see that most enemies run along a straight path which was set for them. Once an enemy is killed another enemy will run along the same path as before.

Shift05

I'll end this topic right about now.

Portal.

/thread

II-FBIsniper-II

a next-gen game with impressive AI? Resistance.

I don't know how we are supposed to compare gameplay? How do you rate gameplay? A game is either fun or its not, its either broken or its not.

NavigatorsGhost

Well I think the TC is trying is getting at is that the AI is no different from last gen or could have been done on last gen. Fanboys tend to think that faster, power systems automatically equals better physics........completely untrue. It all comes down to the ideas from developers to improve how a game plays or runs. Fanboys see a brighter generade explosion automatically assumes that type of physics can't be done on other systems.....They are looking a colors not physics. Its a visual show people get caught up in, but if the physics formula ain't broken...............

[QUOTE="Shift05"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsW_mqPUFoKill.Switch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPC_ibBJiQGears of war

You can watch the videos and see how the enemies react differently. In kill.switch the enemies in the most part run from a building straight to a place of cover, then once there never leave. While in Gears of war you can see the enemies try to advance and if fired upon move back to cover. As well you can see enemies trying to engage in melee combat if the player gets to close in gears of war, while in Kill.Switch enemies just stop when the player advanced on them. Also in the video you can see the enemies trying to attack the player from behind in gears of war rather than just rush the player. As well in the kill.Switch video its easy to see that most enemies run along a straight path which was set for them. Once an enemy is killed another enemy will run along the same path as before.

out0v0rder

I think there is alot more to do with power and AI then people realize. With more ram its easier for devs to allow the enemies or any other NPC to use there own realistic behaviors. With more ram NPC's can havetheir own originalAI rather than just sticking the same AI in everyone. Having your enemies act different adds alot to gameplay IMO, its more enjoyable experience to play through a level and have your enemies act differently, than everyone do the same thing which becomes very predictable.In many last gengames you will see that the enemiesdo very similar movements every time you play the level, but with more ram, games can move away from that, and give the player an unpredictable experience every time they play.

[QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol so basically he is saying teh cells powa pwns 360 games cuz of games like lair :lol:sexy_chimp

WTF are you talking about?

That has nothing to do with this topic.

I suggest you reread it :P

Lair is actually a very good example. From screenshots, cows were saying that it would be awesome and whatnot. The power of its graphics and sound only lead it to being a "beautiful disaster," thanks to poor gameplay. So more power =/= better gameplay in the game.

The only reason AI in games is stupid in most cases, its because the developers are to laze to re-invent the wheel, and not the lack of power.loky4000

Well that's one of the reasons. It is probably preatty hard to code intelligent AI.

assassins creed and its whole crowd reaction dynamic. Altair moves realistically through the crowd, edging around NPC's or shoving them aside.I dont know, but i just played Twilight princess on the gamecube, and i could just run up mindlessly behind a NPC and they wouldnt move an inch, id just be running on the spot, like the NPC's are brick walls or something.

[QUOTE="Oscar-Wilde"]

[QUOTE="agentfred"]If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. cobrax25

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

extreamly large enviroments that are completly non-linnear...according to 1up, they are by far larger then any other game they have ever seen.

AI... they are completly non-scripted...but act realititclly and dynamiclly....

and of course...this...

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2822/crysisnukeks6.gif[/IMG]

are all those peices collision-enabled? Or do they clip through each other and the player, before evaporating 3 seconds later?

[QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"]

a next-gen game with impressive AI? Resistance.

I don't know how we are supposed to compare gameplay? How do you rate gameplay? A game is either fun or its not, its either broken or its not.

powwizzle

Well I think the TC is trying is getting at is that the AI is no different from last gen or could have been done on last gen. Fanboys tend to think that faster, power systems automatically equals better physics........completely untrue. It all comes down to the ideas from developers to improve how a game plays or runs. Fanboys see a brighter generade explosion automatically assumes that type of physics can't be done on other systems.....They are looking a colors not physics. Its a visual show people get caught up in, but if the physics formula ain't broken...............

I think that is untrue. If you have ever played forza 2 you can see what advanced power can do. Forza 2 has one of the best physics for a racing game. Forza 2 also allows damage to play a large role in racing rather than having cars slam into others without having any consequences. Damage hasn't played a role really in racing until this gen with the advancement of physics, AI, and graphics. These features play a large role in gameplay for Forza 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy4XU5j_ZeI (Forza 2 crash)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqhfuHKICOg(GT 4 crash)

[QUOTE="cobrax25"][QUOTE="Oscar-Wilde"]

[QUOTE="agentfred"]If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. Mordred19

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

extreamly large enviroments that are completly non-linnear...according to 1up, they are by far larger then any other game they have ever seen.

AI... they are completly non-scripted...but act realititclly and dynamiclly....

and of course...this...

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2822/crysisnukeks6.gif[/IMG]

are all those peices collision-enabled? Or do they clip through each other and the player, before evaporating 3 seconds later?

collision enabled as far as I know...as all the pieces can be picked up and further manipulated later.

Lets not foreget this quote from the reveiwer that Lemmings love:

You'll fight a decent variety of enemies in Gears of War. Most of the Locust are humanoids, with minor visual distinctions between the standard troops, ones with shotguns, and so on. Later on, you'll fight some different-looking humanoid-style enemies that are armed with explosive torque bows, and there are plenty of other critters to face--some small, some screen-filling. They all use slightly different tactics, but the same basic rule applies: Wait for them to pop their heads (or other weak points) out and attempt to shoot it off. The enemy response to your actions has its great moments, but it also has its problems. Enemies hiding behind cover tend to not react when they get hit. From time to time, you might catch the back of an enemy peeking just over a piece of cover, and if you start shooting it, he'll usually just sit there and let you drill him to death. But in spite of its few problems, the action is tense and extremely enjoyable.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;review

Its about half way down the page. This here pretty much proves that A.I. is NOT as good as Lemmings claim.

Lets not foreget this quote from the reveiwer that Lemmings love:

You'll fight a decent variety of enemies in Gears of War. Most of the Locust are humanoids, with minor visual distinctions between the standard troops, ones with shotguns, and so on. Later on, you'll fight some different-looking humanoid-style enemies that are armed with explosive torque bows, and there are plenty of other critters to face--some small, some screen-filling. They all use slightly different tactics, but the same basic rule applies: Wait for them to pop their heads (or other weak points) out and attempt to shoot it off. The enemy response to your actions has its great moments, but it also has its problems. Enemies hiding behind cover tend to not react when they get hit. From time to time, you might catch the back of an enemy peeking just over a piece of cover, and if you start shooting it, he'll usually just sit there and let you drill him to death. But in spite of its few problems, the action is tense and extremely enjoyable.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;review

Its about half way down the page. This here pretty much proves that A.I. is NOT as good as Lemmings claim.

Grodus5

Can you point out a shooter from last gen that had better AI then gears of war? There might be some, but I cant think of any at this moment. Gears of war AI may not be perfect but its a step up from what we've seen last gen. As well they probably were not even playing gears on its hardest mode.

How the equation actually works, is More power = Better Physics + AI = Potential for Better Gameplay. It all comes down to what devs do.Tylendal

If power isn't important, let's see the next Nintendo console stay with the same specs. I gurantee it won't, which will make a bunch of people hypocrites when they said power doesnt matter. It always mattered.

a next-gen game with impressive AI? Resistance.

I don't know how we are supposed to compare gameplay? How do you rate gameplay? A game is either fun or its not, its either broken or its not.

NavigatorsGhost

Resistance doesn't even have better AI than a three year old PC game (FEAR).

[QUOTE="agentfred"]If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. Oscar-Wilde

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

This is a developer walkthrough of an early level way back from Leipzig, but it really showcases how technological advances are integral to Crysis's gameplay. The levels being the largest in FPS gaming history, paired with the advanced physics, allows for nearly limitless ways to play the level. Many games funnel you down a hallway, but Crysis allows you to go about completing the level however you like. While the brute force method is interesting, explosions will release smoke, alerting more enemies to your location, so stealth is often advisable. Another example is when the player is tasked with destroying a transmitter. Whether you plant C4, throw grenades at it, destroy a car near, or get creative and come up with your own method, it is completely up to you. The sheer technological prowess of Crysis allows it's players an unprecedented level of freedom, rather than just shoving you in a hallway, and saying, go from point A, to point B, and shoot everyone in the head on your way.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

[QUOTE="Oscar-Wilde"]

[QUOTE="agentfred"]If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. agentfred

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

This is a developer walkthrough of an early level way back from Leipzig, but it really showcases how technological advances are integral to Crysis's gameplay. The levels being the largest in FPS gaming history, paired with the advanced physics, allows for nearly limitless ways to play the level. Many games funnel you down a hallway, but Crysis allows you to go about completing the level however you like. While the brute force method is interesting, explosions will release smoke, alerting more enemies to your location, so stealth is often advisable. Another example is when the player is tasked with destroying a transmitter. Whether you plant C4, throw grenades at it, destroy a car near, or get creative and come up with your own method, it is completely up to you. The sheer technological prowess of Crysis allows it's players an unprecedented level of freedom, rather than just shoving you in a hallway, and saying, go from point A, to point B, and shoot everyone in the head on your way.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Crysis is an eighth generation game released during the seventh generation of consoles.

WOW

how can you play wii sports for more than 5 minutes without being bored

[QUOTE="agentfred"][QUOTE="Oscar-Wilde"]

[QUOTE="agentfred"]If there is a showcase of how technological improvements improve gameplay, Crysis would be it. mjarantilla

Could you show a link or something of how those technological improvements improve gameplay in Crisis cause i really haven't ben following Crisis very closely. Heck most console gamers know nothing of crisis.... like me. :)

This is a developer walkthrough of an early level way back from Leipzig, but it really showcases how technological advances are integral to Crysis's gameplay. The levels being the largest in FPS gaming history, paired with the advanced physics, allows for nearly limitless ways to play the level. Many games funnel you down a hallway, but Crysis allows you to go about completing the level however you like. While the brute force method is interesting, explosions will release smoke, alerting more enemies to your location, so stealth is often advisable. Another example is when the player is tasked with destroying a transmitter. Whether you plant C4, throw grenades at it, destroy a car near, or get creative and come up with your own method, it is completely up to you. The sheer technological prowess of Crysis allows it's players an unprecedented level of freedom, rather than just shoving you in a hallway, and saying, go from point A, to point B, and shoot everyone in the head on your way.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Crysis is an eighth generation game released during the seventh generation of consoles.

WOW

how can you play wii sports for more than 5 minutes without being bored

mistervengeance

If power isn't important, let's see the next Nintendo console stay with the same specs. I gurantee it won't, which will make a bunch of people hypocrites when they said power doesnt matter. It always mattered.

PhoebusFlows