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Member since 2007 • 1100 Posts

Most games are not philosophical and lack intellectually challenging themes. However, there are rare one's out there which make strong arguments about topics such as War and Peace (Metal Gear Solid), character motivation (Braid) and corporate social justice (de Blob). What games would you say have the strongest and most logical arguments about the themes they choose to cover?

16 years ago

2009

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Member since 2007 • 2009 Posts

GTA

16 years ago

27455

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#3 hakanakumono

Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

Perhaps Silent Hill 2 should be a contender?

Siren for focusing on many different facets and elements of human behavior, human desires, etc ...

16 years ago

27562

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Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts

Braid made me think a lot, Metal Gear Solid in general always has, GTA IV made me think about crime in general, I couldn't go on rampages because the game was so humanized.

16 years ago

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#5 thepwninator

Member since 2006 • 8134 Posts

Planescape Torment is, most definitely, a highly philosophical game, thanks to its discussion of philosophy itself, its delving into the realm of free will versus predetermination, and many more things besides.

16 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 1004 Posts

Bioshock? o_O Well, it does show how one man's dream can easily turn into quite a nightmare.

16 years ago

24589

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#7 SpruceCaboose

Member since 2005 • 24589 Posts

BioShock. I loved how it evoked Ayn Rand. Makes me hope for a 1984 or Brave New World inspired game.

16 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

The Witcher or any WRPG that pretty much touches on the basis of morality.

Throughout that game you begin to realize slowly that there is no "right" or "wrong" decisions, but only actions (and subsequently, consequences) in and of themselves. The Witcher does a great job of showing that ideal (I believe it's a philosophy held by many of the "german" school of philosphers: Nietzche, Kant, etc.) by giving you choices that are sometimes very difficult to decide between because they both force you to do something that would be considered "bad" or morally wrong by our standards, but reward you in the long run in strange ways (or immediately with money, items, etc.).

16 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 5165 Posts

Xenogears

16 years ago

8389

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Member since 2007 • 8389 Posts

Planetscape by far...nothing even comes close to it.

16 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 2113 Posts

Deus Ex.

16 years ago

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#12 -Master_St3ve-

Member since 2007 • 1421 Posts

[QUOTE="qman101"]Bioshock? o_O Well, it does show how one man's dream can easily turn into quite a nightmare.

No, Bioshock would not make the list.

16 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 1100 Posts

Well, Bioshock makes a great point with morally challenging gameplay (Harvest the sisters or let them be, even it it makes you great) as well as the whole Ayn Rand theme. I have read Atlas Shrugged and immediatly noticed the thematic similarities.

16 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 14870 Posts

BioShock without a doubt. It make so many allusions to philosophical writing, it's fantastic.

16 years ago

2889

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Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

BioShock without a doubt. It make so many illusions to philosophical writing, it's fantastic.NAPK1NS

I think you mean allusions... So, which philosophical writings does it make allusions to?

Anyways, on a side note, reading some of the laughable entrees by some people in this thread... Oh boy. Please, *please* most of you, stay as far away from the field of academic philosophy as humanly possible. PLEASE. You are the movie-citing, "Why is it called The Gay Science?" asking crowd that makes phil profs dread teaching first year courses.

16 years ago

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#16 hakanakumono

Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

Isn't xenosaga based on the works of a famous philospher (who's name I've forgotten)?

Whoever said xenogears is right. It's such an interesting parallel and it does ask real questions about what the intentions of god would be if there ever was one - SPOILER I'm talking about the machine that acts as a god, not the actual god thats in the game.

16 years ago

1100

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Member since 2007 • 1100 Posts

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]BioShock without a doubt. It make so many illusions to philosophical writing, it's fantastic.Shafftehr

I think you mean allusions... So, which philosophical writings does it make allusions to? Anyways, on a side note, reading some of the laughable entrees by some people in this thread... Oh boy. Please, *please* most of you, stay as far away from the field of academic philosophy as humanly possible. PLEASE.

While Ayn Rand isn't as strong or clear a thinker as people like Nietzsche, Kant, or Sarte (Gotta love him), she is still a philosopher.

16 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 14870 Posts

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]BioShock without a doubt. It make so many illusions to philosophical writing, it's fantastic.Shafftehr

I think you mean allusions... So, which philosophical writings does it make allusions to? Anyways, on a side note, reading some of the laughable entrees by some people in this thread... Oh boy. Please, *please* most of you, stay as far away from the field of academic philosophy as humanly possible. PLEASE.

Ah yes... that was a word I was looking for. Sorry about that, it's getting a little late over here in PA. The obvious one, Atlas Shrugged, but also things like Crime and Punishment. A lot of the issues and questions raised in that novel come up again in this game.

16 years ago

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Member since 2008 • 286 Posts

i thought the subject of religion in FFX was great...how they went against all teachings to reveal the corrupt religious leaders...and the fact that that yu yeavon, the one they worshipped, was the REASON for all of the death in spira...loved that game

16 years ago

2889

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Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

Isn't xenosaga based on the works of a famous philospher (who's name I've forgotten)?
Whoever said xenogears is right. It's such an interesting parallel and it does ask real questions about what the intentions of god would be if there ever was one - SPOILER I'm talking about the machine that acts as a god, not the actual god thats in the game.
hakanakumono

Oh dear Lord... Don't even get anyone who has ever actually read and come close to comprehending Nietzsche started on how incredibly terrible that series chopped portions of his works into horribly misleading the soundbytes. Based on Nietzsche's views on theare and melodrama expressed in many places (particularly book two of Die Frohliche Wissehschaft) just about anything in the JRPG genre would make him stab someone... Let alone that horribly melodramatic, convoluted series. Nietzsche would be utterly horrified by the misuse of his subtitles and maxims in those games.

16 years ago

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#21 starmetroid

Member since 2007 • 5000 Posts

World of goo.

16 years ago

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#22 jasonharris48

Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

Planescape Torment(PC), XenoGears(PSX),Metal Gear Solid series(PSX,2,3,PSP) Silent Hill 2 (PS2), Some of the older Shin Megami Tensei titles, BioShock (to some extent) thats all that comes to mind ATM

16 years ago

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#23 Ninjasonparade

Member since 2003 • 409 Posts

[QUOTE="qman101"]Bioshock? o_O Well, it does show how one man's dream can easily turn into quite a nightmare.-Master_St3ve-

No, Bioshock would not make the list.

Why wouldn't Bioshock make the list? It questions not only the instinctual morality of the human race, but also the political and economic ideology that has been the basis of the United States for the last 30 years, started by the deregulation policies of Ronald Regan. It questions the viability of a truly Ayn Randian/free-market society, the kind of society that Republicans herald as the ideal setting for commerce. If that isn't philosophical, than I don't think I know what is!!!

16 years ago

27455

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#24 hakanakumono

Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]
Isn't xenosaga based on the works of a famous philospher (who's name I've forgotten)?
Whoever said xenogears is right. It's such an interesting parallel and it does ask real questions about what the intentions of god would be if there ever was one - SPOILER I'm talking about the machine that acts as a god, not the actual god thats in the game.
Shafftehr

Oh dear Lord... Don't even get anyone who has ever actually read and come close to comprehending Nietzsche started on how incredibly terrible that series chopped portions of his works into horribly misleading the soundbytes. Based on Nietzsche's views on theare and melodrama expressed in many places (particularly book two of Die Frohliche Wissehschaft) just about anything in the JRPG genre would make him stab someone... Let alone that horribly melodramatic, convoluted series. Nietzsche would be utterly horrified by the misuse of his subtitles and maxims in those games.

lol I did fail to understand what was philosophical about the game. To be fair, the game didn't go where it was originally intended to go (the storyline).

16 years ago

1319

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Member since 2005 • 1319 Posts

Someone mentioned this and i totally agree, Xenogears.

16 years ago

316

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#26 D1gitalDiv1de

Member since 2004 • 316 Posts

XENOGEARS without a doubt...No other game even comes close.

16 years ago

2889

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Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]BioShock without a doubt. It make so many illusions to philosophical writing, it's fantastic.NAPK1NS

I think you mean allusions... So, which philosophical writings does it make allusions to? Anyways, on a side note, reading some of the laughable entrees by some people in this thread... Oh boy. Please, *please* most of you, stay as far away from the field of academic philosophy as humanly possible. PLEASE.

Ah yes... that was a word I was looking for. Sorry about that, it's getting a little late over here in PA. The obvious one, Atlas Shrugged, but also things like Crime and Punishment. A lot of the issues and questions raised in that novel come up again in this game.

Oh lord, not one of you. You mean they took deep existential issues raised in works like Crime and Punishment, crammed it into a TV dinner format, and canned it into shallow pop-culture archetypes completely devoid of the subtle articulations present that make Dostoyevsky`s work stand out in a crowd of shallow copies? Sorry, if those are the ways in which they reference philosophical works, then Bruce Almighty is a truly Kierkegaardian story because of how it presents his leap of faith.

16 years ago

2889

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Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

lol I did fail to understand what was philosophical about the game. To be fair, the game didn't go where it was originally intended to go (the storyline). hakanakumono

Yeah... As a Nietzsche scholar, I was curious when I saw the subtitles of one of his major works (actually, just his notebooks published after his death, not technically a work he endorsed) on a video game cover. Sad to say, it butchered what Nietzsche was actually all about - absolutely massacred his general stance on the arts, the nature and true underpinnings of the human psyche, the structures of human motivation, etc - and took from his work things that could be turned into pop-culture icons that teens so often find to be cool. Those games were so contrary to any Nietzschean ideal it makes my head spin.

16 years ago

14870

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Member since 2004 • 14870 Posts

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"] I think you mean allusions... So, which philosophical writings does it make allusions to? Anyways, on a side note, reading some of the laughable entrees by some people in this thread... Oh boy. Please, *please* most of you, stay as far away from the field of academic philosophy as humanly possible. PLEASE.

Ah yes... that was a word I was looking for. Sorry about that, it's getting a little late over here in PA. The obvious one, Atlas Shrugged, but also things like Crime and Punishment. A lot of the issues and questions raised in that novel come up again in this game.

Oh lord, not one of you. You mean they took deep existential issues raised in works like Crime and Punishment, crammed it into a TV dinner format, and canned it into shallow pop-culture archetypes completely devoid of the subtle articulations present that make Dostoyevsky`s work stand out in a crowd of shallow copies? Sorry, if those are the ways in which they reference philosophical works, then Bruce Almighty is a truly Kierkegaardian story because of how it presents his leap of faith.

Woah there, slow down Mr. Condescending. Crime and Punishment raises a lot of questions about what is just and unjust, worthwhile and wasteful, and if destruction is tasteful if it brings greater good to many. A lot of these conflicts and questions are found in Andrew Ryan's character.

16 years ago

9822

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#30 CleanPlayer

Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts

Mass Effect comes to mind. It's story and choices were oscar material.

16 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 236 Posts

Killer 7.

16 years ago

deactivated-57d773aa56272

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#32 deactivated-57d773aa56272

Member since 2006 • 2292 Posts

Clearly Wipeout Pure ties up everything you assumed about the future of racing.

16 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 7673 Posts

Mass Effect comes to mind. It's story and choices were oscar material. CleanPlayer

Oh god no!

16 years ago

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Member since 2008 • 286 Posts

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]BioShock without a doubt. It make so many illusions to philosophical writing, it's fantastic.Shafftehr

I think you mean allusions... So, which philosophical writings does it make allusions to?

Anyways, on a side note, reading some of the laughable entrees by some people in this thread... Oh boy. Please, *please* most of you, stay as far away from the field of academic philosophy as humanly possible. PLEASE. You are the movie-citing, "Why is it called The Gay Science?" asking crowd that makes phil profs dread teaching first year courses.

calm down cool guy...stop rubbing your major in others faces. u obviously know more about philosophy than us...congratulations

16 years ago

9822

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#36 CleanPlayer

Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts

[QUOTE="CleanPlayer"]Mass Effect comes to mind. It's story and choices were oscar material. Locke562

Oh god no!

Come on, it's discover of an invention that's faster than the speed of light tied into some..........I see your point :). The story is hard to explain, but I liked the fake future news.

16 years ago

7507

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Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts

Xenogears
hayato_

DING DING DINGWE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!

It's too bad that this master piece was overlooked by so many in favor of FF7&8.

16 years ago

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#38 hakanakumono

Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hayato_"]
Xenogears
Rockman999

DING DING DINGWE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!

It's too bad that this master piece was overshadowed by FF7/8

Only because it wasn't advertised in America, really. Square was afraid of stepping on Christianity's toes.

And VIII? Are you kidding? It has to be the most hated Final Fantasy (despite the fact that I love it ; _ ;)

16 years ago

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#39 Juggernaut140

Member since 2007 • 36011 Posts

I haven't played many philosophical games.

16 years ago

7507

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Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts

[QUOTE="Rockman999"][QUOTE="hayato_"]
Xenogears
hakanakumono

DING DING DINGWE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!

It's too bad that this master piece was overshadowed by FF7/8

Only because it wasn't advertised in America, really. Square was afraid of stepping on Christianity's toes.

And VIII? Are you kidding? It has to be the most hated Final Fantasy (despite the fact that I love it ; _ ;)

YWell ok maybe FF8 wasn't the best example but it was still a FF and when a FF releases it almost always overshadows every other RPG released that year.Yeah I loved FF8 more than FF7.I never understood the hate it recieved.

16 years ago

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#41 Skittles_McGee

Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts

I'd say Persona 3 because it deals with the issues of fate and death directly. The game itself is a representation of one's journey throughout life to discover their purpose and upon finding it, meeting the absolute and ultimate end: death. Its directly represented by the Tarot. Each of the arcanas shows a stage of life. They culminate in the person reaching "The World" arcana, the arcana representative of the point in life when one's true purpose is discovered and their reason for being is fulfilled and finally ending in "Death", the inevitable end at the beaten path. Its a very depressing and morbid game, but despite the fantasy setting it presents a story that is very much real and representative of life itself. Very philosophical. Of course, it also delves into other themes such as the strength of unity and the unbreakable power of free will even in the face of fate, that which cannot be changed. Its very depressing, as I said, but at the same time very uplifting and inspiring.

16 years ago

5165

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Member since 2007 • 5165 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Isn't xenosaga based on the works of a famous philospher (who's name I've forgotten)?

Whoever said xenogears is right. It's such an interesting parallel and it does ask real questions about what the intentions of god would be if there ever was one - SPOILER I'm talking about the machine that acts as a god, not the actual god thats in the game.

Deus ( Deus ex machina or something like that ) Also the ferences to -id- an such

16 years ago

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#43 verbalfilth

Member since 2006 • 5043 Posts

Majority of the games out there have one or more forms of phylosophical teachings that are presented out for you to explore in a linear manner, but, if you're looking for games that encourage you to choose, discover and experience different moral standings and the outcome of individual decisions, then games such as KOTOR, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Planescape Torment and so on do this very well.

16 years ago

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#44 KungfuKitten

Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

Hm there hasn't really been a philosophical game yet as far as i know. Was thinking of making my own. But people generally don't like to think so i guess it would be bound to fail. What we are being taught throughout education is that most stuff is figured out for You. Not thinking but memorising. Actually if You think at school You usually get punished for it, because You stray too much. It's pretty ridiculous.

Never played XenoGears so i don't know about that one. In the Witcher and Mass Effect You had to solve some deep and interesting moral dilemmas and in Tales of Symphonia You were faced with some (didn't have a choice though). But when it comes to philosophy there wasn't much to them. MGS4 made me think as well. But it's more of a warning than a philosophy. I can't really think of any...

16 years ago

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#45 jasonharris48

Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

[QUOTE="Rockman999"][QUOTE="hayato_"]
Xenogears
hakanakumono

DING DING DINGWE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!

It's too bad that this master piece was overshadowed by FF7/8

Only because it wasn't advertised in America, really. Square was afraid of stepping on Christianity's toes.

And VIII? Are you kidding? It has to be the most hated Final Fantasy (despite the fact that I love it ; _ ;)

Seemed like it wasn't going to be called Project Moses BTW?

16 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 4976 Posts

Far and away For me it would have to be Xerogears (Ps1) This game covers it all. Drug abuse, the existance of god, sexual issues, canabalism, the meaning of life/friendship/betrayal/love and so much more this is a game that really has it all. Xenogears was so far ahead of its time on the Ps1 its rediculous. After playing it i never looked at videogames the same again.

16 years ago

5165

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Member since 2007 • 5165 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"][QUOTE="Rockman999"]DING DING DINGWE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!
It's too bad that this master piece was overshadowed by FF7/8
jasonharris48

Only because it wasn't advertised in America, really. Square was afraid of stepping on Christianity's toes.

And VIII? Are you kidding? It has to be the most hated Final Fantasy (despite the fact that I love it ; _ ;)

Seemed like it wasn't going to be called Project Moses BTW?

It was never finished on top of that, which made me mad. The second disc was horrible compared to the first *sigh*

16 years ago

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#48 Jade_Monkey

Member since 2004 • 4830 Posts

Any PC game follows the philosophy of greatness.

16 years ago

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#49 Skittles_McGee

Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts

Any PC game follows the philosophy of greatness.Jade_Monkey

Hey, you did say ANY PC game.

16 years ago

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#50 Jade_Monkey

Member since 2004 • 4830 Posts

[QUOTE="Jade_Monkey"]Any PC game follows the philosophy of greatness.Skittles_McGee

Hey, you did say ANY PC game.

Yes I did, even that unappreciated masterpeice you were so kind to show will fit into my criteria.

16 years ago

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