Most skillful Weapon/Character/Item/Etc..In a game! (part2)

I made a thread a few days ago (actually a day ago) about what you guys thought was the most broken weapon/character/item/etc (WCIE) in a game. Here is the link if you want to revisit it to check it out: Click Me!! Anyways, now I'm curious which WCIE you think takes the most skill to use in a game. Let me reiterate that this is not "Which is the most underpowered character in a game." We all know Sonic from SSBB is underpowered trash, that does not make him the most skillful to use. It just makes you an idiot for trying. When 2 people of equal skill play SSBB and one decides to use Sonic, he will lose everytime except for the time the other guy has an epileptic siezure, and even then he might still lose. What I mean by most skillful is a character who has a chance to win, but it takes a lot of talent to do so. Before I begin with my submissions, let me just give you a break down of what people thought were the most broken WCIE:
[spoiler]

* Bo Jackson (Tecmo Bowl)
* Snake (SSBB)
* Meta Knight (SSBB)
* Yoda (Soul Calibur 4)
* M16A4 (COD4)
* 50 Cal. (COD4)
* Chainsaw (GeoW2)
* Shotgun (GeoW)
* Smoke Grenade (GeoW2)
* Onside Kick (Madden 08 )
* Odd Job (Golden Eye 64)
* Playboy Magazine (MGO)
* Pistol (Halo: CE)
* Snake Eyes/LAARK (Resistance 2)
* N-Bomb (Perfect Dark 64)
* Mana Shield (Fable 2)
* Dragunov (STALKER)
* AWP (Counter Strike)
* Laptop Gun (Perfect Dark 64)
* Grenades (GeoW2)
* Geomancer, Clockwerk, Tidebringer (DOTA)
* Marta (ToS 2)
* Orlandu (FF Tactics)
* Knife (COD4)
* Power Armor (Fallout 3)
* Bullseye (Resistance 1 and 2)
* Guns (Vampire: Blood Lines)
* Ray Gun (SSBB)
* Oblivion (Oblivion)
* Magento (Marvel vs Capcom)
* Shamans, Druids, Hunters, Warriors (WoW)
* Fan (SSBB)
* Farsight (Perfect Dark 64)
* Shotgun (Resistance 2)

[/spoiler]
Most Broken WCIE in a game:

Before I post my choices for most skillful WCIE in a game, let me just say that if you have anymore broken WCIE you forgot to mention, feel free to post em :P

Most Skillfull WCIE:

Ganadorf (SSBB): Yes he is obscenely powerful, but he is slow as all hell. It takes skill to manage his terrible movement speed, lack of projectiles and insane lag after attacks.

Wario (SSBB): Wtf is this guy? I dont understand how people put him in a respectable tier. I have been owned by many good Wario users, but for the love of me I cant use him! The only decent thing I can say about him is he can fart real loud and has a cool bike. This guy is the definition of "Skill".

Captain Falcon (SSBB): No more Knee of Justice noobs! Now you actually have to learn how to play! Ever since they nerfed his knee of justice there have been less and less Cpt.Falcon users. Why? Because now he takes some skill. He is like Ganondorf minus the insane power and he has a alot more speed.

Marksman (Resistance 2): Go on haters...complain! Yeah sure, in theory this gun is OP and should be banned. A sniper rifle with burst fire that is also effective at close range!? hacks! Well the truth of the matter is at long range its pretty awesome, but at close range you need headshots or its game over for you. I dont care what you say but some guy with the carbs will break your face unless you can get some headshot off. Sure you have the elctrostatic orb, but you only have 1 and arent going to have it for every battle. This gun does take skill to use, but appears OP when in the hands of a skilled user.

Hunter (World of Warcraft): The only c.lass in WoW that actually requires skill in PvP, 'nuff said, and no this isnt up for debate! :x

Bolt Action Sniper Rifle (COD4): A Sniper rifle you cant spam away till you get a kill? This is what I call skill. You basically need a headshot everytime with this baby or the opponent will run away...unless you are playing noobs or a guy in a trapped corridor.

Bellock (Resistance 2): No, this gun doesnt suck, you do. If you know how to use it, its a beast of a weapon and not nearly as cheap as the Dragon in Resistance 1.

Lucario (SSBB)-Kickinurass : His damage output is pathetic at low percentages, to the point it takes a whole combo to barely get above 10%. Luckily, his moves have next to zero knockback and it's easy for him to chain together hits. It's a balancing act - staying in the low percentages and racking up the opponents damage with his combos before shifting gears and using the increased power he gets at high percentage for the KO.

Scout (CS)- Wasdie: Sure most servers don't have the AWP disabled, but if you see somebody constantly using the Scout, beware, that bastard will headshot your ass through 2 doors from the other side of the map without hacking.

Plasma Grenade (Halo)- 11Marcel:It's a worse version of a frag grenade (which explodes really fast after the first bounce, so it's very hard to dodge), except for that it sticks. So basically if manage to hit someone with the grenade the payoff is amazing, but otherwise it sucks.

Torque Bow (Gears 2)- too_much_eslim: It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves.

Hardcore Modes (Any game)- Tasman_Basic: this is probably an etc thing but any game that has quick deaths in it. Like Red Orchestra or Hardcore CoDs or Bushido Blade. When someone dies in a short time or one hit then the whole game changes from being twich fest to a slower mathodical game. It's a whole new skill set.

I'd add Lucario to go along with the rest of SSBB characters. His damage output is pathetic at low percentages, to the point it takes a whole combo to barely get above 10%. Luckily, his moves have next to zero knockback and it's easy for him to chain together hits. It's a balancing act - staying in the low percentages and racking up the opponents damage with his combos before shifting gears and using the increased power he gets at high percentage for the KO.

I was one of those people that moved away from Capt. Falcon, btw. :P

I'd add Lucario to go along with the rest of SSBB characters. His damage output is pathetic at low percentages, to the point it takes a whole combo to barely get above 10%. Luckily, his moves have next to zero knockback and it's easy for him to chain together hits. It's a balancing act - staying in the low percentages and racking up the opponents damage with his combos before shifting gears and using the increased power he gets at high percentage for the KO.

I was one of those people that moved away from Capt. Falcon, btw. :P

Kickinurass

Torque Bow ( Gears 2). It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves. too_much_eslim

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"]Torque Bow ( Gears 2). It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves. Also the pistol in Halo 1. It was your do it all weapon. You could take down snipers, drivers in warthogs, and do just about anything with this weapon. There is a reason why a lot of Halo fans want this pistol back.II_Seraphim_II

Torque Bow ( Gears 2). It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves. Also the pistol in Halo 1. It was your do it all weapon. You could take down snipers, drivers in warthogs, and do just about anything with this weapon. There is a reason why a lot of Halo fans want this pistol back.too_much_eslim

I love the torque bow. One of my all time favorite weapons.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"]Torque Bow ( Gears 2). It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves. Also the pistol in Halo 1. It was your do it all weapon. You could take down snipers, drivers in warthogs, and do just about anything with this weapon. There is a reason why a lot of Halo fans want this pistol back.istreakforfood

I love the torque bow. One of my all time favorite weapons.

Captain Falcon (SSBB): No more Knee of Justice noobs! Now you actually have to learn how to play! Ever since they nerfed his knee of justice there have been less and less Cpt.Falcon users. Why? Because now he takes some skill. He is like Ganondorf minus the insane power and he has a alot more speed.

poster

Wtf? How the hell is Falcon cheap? Anyway, I nominate Fox and Falco for the amount of techinical skill they take.

I'd add Lucario to go along with the rest of SSBB characters. His damage output is pathetic at low percentages, to the point it takes a whole combo to barely get above 10%. Luckily, his moves have next to zero knockback and it's easy for him to chain together hits. It's a balancing act - staying in the low percentages and racking up the opponents damage with his combos before shifting gears and using the increased power he gets at high percentage for the KO.

I was one of those people that moved away from Capt. Falcon, btw. :P

[QUOTE="poster"]

Captain Falcon (SSBB): No more Knee of Justice noobs! Now you actually have to learn how to play! Ever since they nerfed his knee of justice there have been less and less Cpt.Falcon users. Why? Because now he takes some skill. He is like Ganondorf minus the insane power and he has a alot more speed.

Stabby2486

Wtf? How the hell is Falcon cheap? Anyway, I nominate Fox and Falco for the amount of techinical skill they take.

Cpt. Falcon isnt cheap anymore. He used to be with his knee of justice that could kill anyone and was so easy to pull off. Now it actually takes some skills to use him. The new cheap character in SSBB is meta knight. He is the noobiest character in any game ever. yes, thats a bold claim but its true. All of his attacks have insane priority, and he has a mad air game. And to make things worse, his recovery moves are insane, he is fast as a bullet and he is the most spammable character in the damn game. He should be banned instantly. And yes like someone said in my other post, he is worse than Snake. I just forgot to mention it while making the topic.poster

Falcon's recovery and edgegaurding capabilities sucked and the Knee took skill to combo into. What made you come to the conclusion it was easy to land?

[QUOTE="poster"] Cpt. Falcon isnt cheap anymore. He used to be with his knee of justice that could kill anyone and was so easy to pull off. Now it actually takes some skills to use him. The new cheap character in SSBB is meta knight. He is the noobiest character in any game ever. yes, thats a bold claim but its true. All of his attacks have insane priority, and he has a mad air game. And to make things worse, his recovery moves are insane, he is fast as a bullet and he is the most spammable character in the damn game. He should be banned instantly. And yes like someone said in my other post, he is worse than Snake. I just forgot to mention it while making the topic.Stabby2486

Falcon's recovery and edgegaurding capabilities sucked and the Knee took skill to combo into. What made you come to the conclusion it was easy to land?

Dude when I used Falcon i would kick so much ass with him back in melee. It got to the point where people would say "no more Falcon man, he is just too much" so I stopped using him and got good with other characters. 9/10 times my killing movie with Falcon was the Knee of Justice. While it is best used at the end of a combo, its possible to use it without a combo. The knock back on it if you hit with the sweet spot was as insane, if not more, as Ganondorf's Spartan Kick, except its not as slow. That knee was a killing machine and thank god they nerfed it.poster

Your friends suck. Play someone who knows how to shield and mixes up his techs and getups.

[QUOTE="poster"] Dude when I used Falcon i would kick so much ass with him back in melee. It got to the point where people would say "no more Falcon man, he is just too much" so I stopped using him and got good with other characters. 9/10 times my killing movie with Falcon was the Knee of Justice. While it is best used at the end of a combo, its possible to use it without a combo. The knock back on it if you hit with the sweet spot was as insane, if not more, as Ganondorf's Spartan Kick, except its not as slow. That knee was a killing machine and thank god they nerfed it.Stabby2486

Your friends suck. Play someone who knows how to shield and mixes up his techs and getups.

I also say that Ness is pretty hard to master.....at least compared to Lucas.

Lucas is basically Ness on easy mode.

Maybe so, but just look at how many people now suck with Cpt. Falcon ever since they nerfed it. It was his bread and butter.poster

People suck with Falcon now because no one bothers with him because he's been nerfed to unplayability. And you're the first person I've seen who's glad Falcon was nerfed, Falcon was the funnest character to play in Melee.

Getting 7 kills in one round in a 8x8 Ranked Elimination game of Socom Confrontation takes skill ;)

Note: I couldn't think of a weapon/character/item/etc.

[QUOTE="poster"] Maybe so, but just look at how many people now suck with Cpt. Falcon ever since they nerfed it. It was his bread and butter.Stabby2486

People suck with Falcon now because no one bothers with him because he's been nerfed to unplayability. And you're the first person I've seen who's glad Falcon was nerfed, Falcon was the funnest character to play in Melee.

You should see me play as Pit in SSBB, wow. It got to the point where people wouldn't let me play as him anymore, I would never, ever lose. I'm a master of shield/dodge on the SSB series and with Pit's flying I just became that much more invincible.0bscurity

Pit's UpB is actually pretty easy to gimp since he doesn't get his UpB back when hit.

I like that he is nerfed because now ganondorf has a chance. If we still had the old captain falcon, Ganondorf would be useless. Sure he is powerful as all hell, but he is slow as hell and his awesome d-air as a pretty small hit box, couple that with sub-par recovery, you have a sketchy character. Now that Falcon is nerfed, atleast you run into a few matches were people actually use ganondorf unlike back in the SSBM days when everyone was just Falcon. and on a side note, is Kirbycide still possible in SSBB? that move was cheap ....poster

What? Ganondorf is even worse now. In Melee he stood a chance with L-canceling.

[QUOTE="poster"] I like that he is nerfed because now ganondorf has a chance. If we still had the old captain falcon, Ganondorf would be useless. Sure he is powerful as all hell, but he is slow as hell and his awesome d-air as a pretty small hit box, couple that with sub-par recovery, you have a sketchy character. Now that Falcon is nerfed, atleast you run into a few matches were people actually use ganondorf unlike back in the SSBM days when everyone was just Falcon. and on a side note, is Kirbycide still possible in SSBB? that move was cheap ....Stabby2486

What? Ganondorf is even worse now. In Melee he stood a chance with L-canceling.

Getting 7 kills in one round in a 8x8 Ranked Elimination game of Socom Confrontation takes skill ;)

Note: I couldn't think of a weapon/character/item/etc.

W1NGMAN-

It's true. I saw someone do it the other day when it was like 4 on 8, it was pretty badass.

As for the spartan kick and Dair both are very hard to land and are laggy (except for the Dair if you short hop and Dair instantly)

What I like to do is edgehog this causes people to jump again because they cant hold onto the edge anymore,

poster

If you aren't edgehogging they'll just snap onto the magnetic ledges, if you are they hit you and snap onto the ledge or make it back onto the stage.

Also he has one of the best recovery moves, the ganoncide. If you time it right it sort of glitches or something and spends the person down but you manage to grab the edge. Also just a plain ganoncide when you have more stock is always a good way to go.

poster

Both are hard to land. And good luck getting a lead with Ganon against a good player. LOL

And his f-air (or was it b-air) has great knock back.

poster

Both are hard to land and are laggy as hell.

As for the spartan kick and Dair both are very hard to land and are laggy (except for the Dair if you short hop and Dair instantly)

[QUOTE="poster"]

If you aren't edgehogging they'll just snap onto the magnetic ledges, if you are they hit you and snap onto the ledge or make it back onto the stage.

[QUOTE="poster"]

Also he has one of the best recovery moves, the ganoncide. If you time it right it sort of glitches or something and spends the person down but you manage to grab the edge. Also just a plain ganoncide when you have more stock is always a good way to go.

Stabby2486

Both are hard to land. And good luck getting a lead with Ganon against a good player. LOL

And his f-air (or was it b-air) has great knock back.

poster

Both are hard to land and are laggy as hell.

I dont think those moves are hard to land. For instance, some people tend to think that some meteor smashes are hard to land, but they are easy for me. Its all about timing and being unpredictable. If you use it everytime, yeah u'r screwed, but if you are hard to read, you can land it most of the times. and yes those moves are (f-air, b-air) are laggy, but they have decent priority and if you use them a little earlier than people would expect, they tend to float into them and get hit. And even if they try to do a cheap kick to break the move, by the time they are close enough for their kick to hit, you will already be in the attack frames of the animation and it will go through alot of attacks (unless u run into snake/ meta knight or other people with godlike priority).poster

Your friends really suck.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Seriously, look at the tournament results. Ganon has the very worst tournament placements.

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="too_much_eslim"]Torque Bow ( Gears 2). It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves. Also the pistol in Halo 1. It was your do it all weapon. You could take down snipers, drivers in warthogs, and do just about anything with this weapon. There is a reason why a lot of Halo fans want this pistol back.too_much_eslim

Exactly why it wasn't a skillful weapon... 

Torque Bow ( Gears 2). It is probaly one of the most skilled weapon ever. In the hands of a skilled person, that person can dominate an entire team by themselves. Also the pistol in Halo 1. It was your do it all weapon. You could take down snipers, drivers in warthogs, and do just about anything with this weapon. There is a reason why a lot of Halo fans want this pistol back.too_much_eslim

Sorry OP, make an adjustment.

The Gears 2 Torque does not take as much skill as the Gears 1 Torque. In Gears 2 when you shoot it at the ground, it does more damage in a bigger radius. There really is not need to actually torque the player, in Gears 1, you need to torque them or hope they stand right on it.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"][QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"] the pistol in Halo 1 was just flat out cheap. It was a sniper without the trail. I think thats why they took off the pistols zoom funtion in Halo 2. It didnt take skill :Prolo107

Exactly why it wasn't a skillful weapon...

Halo pistol was 4 shots to the head, and because it kills people quickly that doesn't mean it's skillful? Stfu. You're an idiot.

All you nubs say the most skill-required weapons don't require any skill, but then you'll go list some other nub weapon like a needler or grenades as taking skill.

[QUOTE="poster"] I dont think those moves are hard to land. For instance, some people tend to think that some meteor smashes are hard to land, but they are easy for me. Its all about timing and being unpredictable. If you use it everytime, yeah u'r screwed, but if you are hard to read, you can land it most of the times. and yes those moves are (f-air, b-air) are laggy, but they have decent priority and if you use them a little earlier than people would expect, they tend to float into them and get hit. And even if they try to do a cheap kick to break the move, by the time they are close enough for their kick to hit, you will already be in the attack frames of the animation and it will go through alot of attacks (unless u run into snake/ meta knight or other people with godlike priority).Stabby2486

Your friends really suck.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Seriously, look at the tournament results. Ganon has the very worst tournament placements.