MS...........im so dissapointed (56k)

Its not about Kinect.

Coming off the original Xbox MS were in a sticky situation. We see 25 million consoles sold, beating one of the competitors and a solid line-up. But to MS, they lost 1 billion, failed to gain significance in most markets and saw their main competitor reach new heights. For those that arent familiar with MS' reason for entering the console space, they basically saw Sony's Playstation as a threat to their Windows market. So with the PS2 growing even more you could guess things werent looking too good.

Which brings us to this gen.

It was MS' first console and they made mistakes naturally. Truth is, they made a very niche console. It had popular genres sure but it only catered to a small section of the gaming userbase.

With the 360 MS pretty much said scew this, lets start again. They took into consideration all markets and aimed to deliver a unique console. Here are some of the games they pulled earlier on (all of these games were exclusive at the time).

- They understood the importance of JRPG in JPN and the West. So they funded Former S-E and creator of FF with some of his games. Whether you agree or disagree, the 2 games put out for the 360 vere solid. LO as of today has sold 1 million copies WW. Yup, a new IP JRPG exclusive to the 360 has sold that well. They also got in there with other devs in order to bring games such as Eternal Sonata and Trusty Bell to the 360. You cant deny how helpful this has been to us. Firstly theyve brought games that would have otherwise stayed in their country and secondly theyve drastically reduced the time we wait for localisation.The only reason we got ES PS3 released here is because it sold well on the 360.

- They understood the importance of Capcom. At the start of the gen, they got in with Capcom and the end product were games like Dead Rising and Lost Planet. I remember reading interviews in 2006 where they stated the games were specifically developed for the 360 in order to appeal to Western audiences. Otherwise had it not been for MS, these games probably wouldnt have existed.

- They understood the importance of Nintendo. Looking back, i dont think theres any light hearted original Xbox games outside of the Oddworld games. Anyway they bought Rare last gen but didnt utalise them. They knew how important they were with most of their N64 games selling 5 million+ and were determined to capitalise on it. Right out of the gate you got great games such as Kameo, PDZ which were soon followed by the amazing VP and Banjo N&K. They wanted those Nintendo gamers and were throwing as much as they could give at them.

- And of course, they understood what the core Xbox user wanted. They were too were also fed and drawn in with Project Gotham, Halo, Gears etc.

Anyway the point im making is it seems as if MS is going back to their Xbox 1 strategy. Which is cater to the crowd that buys the Forzas, Halos, Gears, Fables etc.

At the start of this gen, MS came at it HARD. They knew exactly what they needed to get and how to do it. The thing they dont understand is.....it was working, just quite rather slow. The original Xbox sold around 400k in japan whilst the 360 hovers around 1.2 million (it in equal time). Also did you know that before the release of WKC, the highest selling JRPGs in Japan were Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey (this gen)? LO even sold more than the first Final Fantasy. Had MS kept at the series, theres no doubt it could have been up there with FF, DQ, Tales, SMT etc.

Games like Dead Rising/lost planet sold the 360 to a whole new userbase. Both in Japan and Europe, these games were enjoying great success and were pushing the 360. The once FPS/WRPG console was becoming diverse. The Rare games whilst down a notch (of course, they were missing most of last gen) again was pushing the 360 to new audiences.

For some reason MS has seemed to drop their relentless assault, which doesnt really make much sense. The reason why the 360 has nearly doubled the original Xbox's sales is because of all the things they did earlier on, not this routine which did not fair so well for the O Xbox. Ive pointed it to one thing, third parties multiplating everything. I dont think MS expected to recieve so many renouned PS franchises. This in turn has made them feel they dont need to push the areas they were lacking in last-gen (and were trying to fix earlier this gen).....i think. I guess you could attribute their run to the year head start but it seems more than that to me.

It just seems like theyve chucked all that hardwork they put in earlier this gen out the window. Theyve practically given up on Japan, hell they didnt even try for a 360 FF13 release, that would have definately moved consoles regardless of the PS3 ver. And there are many other areas where theyve just given up. I dont think its because of Kinect, to me it still looks like a little something on the side. Theyre sticking to what they think works, which is fine dont get me wrong (i love Halo, forza etc.) but they could be doing so much more.

What do you guys think about MS? Do you like how theyve changed so suddenly midway through this gen (not in regards to kinect)? I havent explained this so well, ill update in the morning when im wide awake.

Getting Japanese exclusive games didn't help, so it's perfectly understandable they stopped paying for exclusivity. It does not make sense from a business standpoint and it does not affect the 360 userbase. They are still expanding their JRPG catalog, FFXIII was released earlier this year.

And about the other games you listed, all of them have either had or will have a sequel in the last/next 10 months (except Banjo):

Forza 3 was released last year.

Halo Reach comes next month.

Dead Rising 2 comes next month.

Fable III comes in two months.

GeoW 3 will be released early next year.

That's without counting Alan Wake, Crackdown 2 andXBLA.

Im confused on what your trying to say really, the 360 is making a profit and selling tons and MS has not abandoned the hardcore.bigboss5ak

It has felt like to me, at least since 2008, 2009, and this year 2010, that the creative-exec types have been more silenced, and the suits are running the show more. Like a more corporate culture has taken the helms again...if you have followed the departures of key Xbox team staff, it lines up well with that hypothesis.

To me, that's how it feels as a 360 gamer since the beginning of this generation. I don't like to talk about it too much because people get very, very angry, but that's how it feels. They are still making some good decisions of course, but not taking as many chances, closing down, selling off, or downsizing their 1st Party studios in lieu of buying timed exclusive DLC or timed exclusive games. What I don't like about that model, is that while it benefits the company, we consumers were still going to get that COD :MW2 DLC, or Fallout 3 DLC or GTA4 DLC...I would rather that money be funnelled into new retail games and new IPs. Then, when we factor in the mass amounts of pure profit Xbox Live rakes in annually, and it really seems like they aren't trying as hard as they could.

It's like they are coasting on the great decisions they made earlier this generation, and are in cruise control right now.

Like I said, there is good and fun to be had, but there is A LOT more potential for the Xbox 360 if these execs would just fire on all cylinders again, like they did at the beginning of this generation till late 2007, or get more creative-execs making some real big decisions again. Sure, their is risk in games like this years Alan Wake or a Lost Odysee, but I think that's the way to go....for the gamers.

If this was a talk about how they are profitable, that's true, but why would I care about who's making what kind of profit? I'm not here to discuss sales and how much these corps make, I am here to talk to my fellow gamers about games and what they think is going on in the game industry that affects us gamers.

I'm not saying they should get rid of GeoW, Halo, Forza, Fable, repeat...I'm just saying, they should do what they did at the start of this generation, stop buying Timed Exclusives content, and start funding some new content.

To be honest, I don't care if I get content before the PS3 owners, I just want the game. The game is coming anyways, so it's not a problem. I know timed exclusives are sales tactic, and as a business man, I respect it. As a gamer, I do not like it.

I'm here to talk to you as a gamer.

The companies like Pepsi can keep on making money and showing charts of their success, but if I don't like the drink, I don't care.

[QUOTE="bigboss5ak"]Im confused on what your trying to say really, the 360 is making a profit and selling tons and MS has not abandoned the hardcore.Animal-Mother

Has come to a hault?? In your opinion maybe. Ive enjoyed alan wake and will be enjoying reach, fable 3, xbla games and black ops for the rest of this year which is more than i can ask for. Next year starts off with a bang with gears 3, kingdoms and of course MS will announce more games as well. I guess im not as easily influenced as others around here i know MS hasnt put a stop to the awesome games.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="bigboss5ak"]Im confused on what your trying to say really, the 360 is making a profit and selling tons and MS has not abandoned the hardcore.bigboss5ak

Yeah I'm disappointed in Microsoft too from a software perspective. Early on in this generation they had some great exclusive Japanese developed games, but now I don't see them doing much in that department compared to the other two consoles this gen.

Twisted metal?? LB2?? Socom 4?? GT5?? KZ3?? Are these the brand new franchises your referring to?? ok pal nice try though.bigboss5ak

[QUOTE="bigboss5ak"][QUOTE="Animal-Mother"] Thats not what he's saying, He's saying MS really pushed hard at the beginning of the generation and we got a ton of incredible games. Essentially that has really come to a hault now. Now this isn't what the TC said but look at E3 we said kinectimals. MS circa 2006-2008 would've never shown that kind of stuff, they would've just piled a heapload of good games on us.Animal-Mother

new franchises like killzone, gran turismo, socom and twisted metal. LMAO those are all ps2 franchises. lol there are absolutely no "facts" in your post, all biased opinions.

LOl there are three games of Halo,Gears, Forza in this gen alone. You really can't compare that to a release of LPB2, Twisted metal(when was the last time that they released this one on a console?... thought so). And for some reason people keep forgeting about the last guardian and DS2.

What about DeathSmiles? Ravensmash

LOl there are three games of Halo,Gears, Forza in this gen alone. You really can't compare that to a release of LPB2, Twisted metal(when was the last time that they released this one on a console?... thought so). And for some reason people keep forgeting about the last guardian and DS2.

lbjkurono23

I am not. I would be happy regardless of what system I owned but I am glad I have a 360.

Twisted metal?? LB2?? Socom 4?? GT5?? KZ3?? Are these the brand new franchises your referring to?? ok pal nice try though.bigboss5ak

LOl there are three games of Halo,Gears, Forza in this gen alone. You really can't compare that to a release of LPB2, Twisted metal(when was the last time that they released this one on a console?... thought so). And for some reason people keep forgeting about the last guardian and DS2.

I hadn't thought about it that way before. I agree.

It has felt like to me, at least since 2008, 2009, and this year 2010, that the creative-exec types have been more silenced, and the suits are running the show more. SolidTy

Everything fell apart when J Allard left. Could have told those guys.

I hadn't thought about it that way before. I agree.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

It has felt like to me, at least since 2008, 2009, and this year 2010, that the creative-exec types have been more silenced, and the suits are running the show more. Like a more corporate culture has taken the helms again...if you have followed the departures of key Xbox team staff, it lines up well with that hypothesis.

To me, that's how it feels as a 360 gamer since the beginning of this generation. I don't like to talk about it too much because people get very, very angry, but that's how it feels. They are still making some good decisions of course, but not taking as many chances, closing down, selling off, or downsizing their 1st Party studios in lieu of buying timed exclusive DLC or timed exclusive games. What I don't like about that model, is that while it benefits the company, we consumers were still going to get that COD :MW2 DLC, or Fallout 3 DLC or GTA4 DLC...I would rather that money be funnelled into new retail games and new IPs. Then, when we factor in the mass amounts of pure profit Xbox Live rakes in annually, and it really seems like they aren't trying as hard as they could.

It's like they are coasting on the great decisions they made earlier this generation, and are in cruise control right now.

Like I said, there is good and fun to be had, but there is A LOT more potential for the Xbox 360 if these execs would just fire on all cylinders again, like they did at the beginning of this generation till late 2007, or get more creative-execs making some real big decisions again. Sure, their is risk in games like this years Alan Wake or a Lost Odysee, but I think that's the way to go....for the gamers.

If this was a talk about how they are profitable, that's true, but why would I care about who's making what kind of profit? I'm not here to discuss sales and how much these corps make, I am here to talk to my fellow gamers about games and what they think is going on in the game industry that affects us gamers.

I'm not saying they should get rid of GeoW, Halo, Forza, Fable, repeat...I'm just saying, they should do what they did at the start of this generation, stop buying Timed Exclusives content, and start funding some new content.

To be honest, I don't care if I get content before the PS3 owners, I just want the game. The game is coming anyways, so it's not a problem. I know timed exclusives are sales tactic, and as a business man, I respect it. As a gamer, I do not like it.

I'm here to talk to you as a gamer.

The companies like Pepsi can keep on making money and showing charts of their success, but if I don't like the drink, I don't care.Cherokee_Jack

Everything fell apart when J Allard left. Could have told those guys.

Unless something stops being monetarily effective, I don't see the current plan/path stopping anytime soon.

C'est la vie.

M$ has no business in gaming, they should of never came to itJ-WOW

M$ has no business in gaming, they should of never came to itJ-WOW

[QUOTE="lbjkurono23"]

LOl there are three games of Halo,Gears, Forza in this gen alone. You really can't compare that to a release of LPB2, Twisted metal(when was the last time that they released this one on a console?... thought so). And for some reason people keep forgeting about the last guardian and DS2.

The_RedLion

I agree with points on both sides of the argument, but please don't act like LBP, ModNation Racers, MAG, Uncharted, Demon's Souls, Valkryia Chronicles, et al., aren't new IPs this gen.

Completely agree with you TC I'm one of the people who bought my 360 for JRPGs and game like Kameo but sadly seems MS is betraying many people who bought their consoles for those kind of games by stopping their support but anyway i think its not completely MS fault I guess this happened because Sony woke up from their sweet dream as the unbeatable industry leader and because they won the formats war, so now they stepped up their game on started working harder to gain exclusive games and more JRPGs..etc.

dont understand this post at all TC?

xbox360 in my opinion has OVERDELIVERED.....great console, greatest online, always great multiplats, Mass Effect series,FABLE series, Gears of war Series, the best versions of madden and call of duty franchise, new IP's like alan wake, Forza 3 and the list goes on to infinty.

so far this year ive bought 9 xbox 360 titles vs just 3 for my PS3.

thats a 3 to one ratio if im correct?

thats INSANE for a gaming console aproaching its 6th year and showing NO SIGNS OF SLOWING DOWN!

that in of itself is STARK evidence about how well the 360 is doing. i had a PERFECTLY good 360 arcade from 2009 just like several million other people. and we traded it in and paid FULL RETAIL for the new 360 slim. more STARK evidence of how well the 360 brand is entrenched.

the 360 is to consoles now what the I-Phone is to the smart phone market.

i understand most of what the TC is trying to elaborate on and he gets PROPS for such a well thought out post.

but ive barely finished Alan Wake, Red Dead Redemption and mass effect and WHAM here comes Madden 11 and Halo reach.

i work for a living and there is not enough time to play all the games microsoft is throwing at us like Limbo and madden 11 and here comes fable 3 in JUST 3 months TC??

OK THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER YEAR LIKE 2007 WHEN XBOX 360 STOMPED ALL OVER THE COMPETITION IN GAMES.....its over and its not happening again.

its all about the casual market now. but all things considered as far as quality of titles and playtime the 360 has left my PS3 chocking on exhaust fumes.

be patient.....microsoft hasnt dropped the ball yet and they haven tfired off all of their shots like Sony did in early 2010.

the games are coming, and you my friend have a front row seat.....

Erok

I'm hoping MS strikes the right balance and so far, so good with Alan Wake & CD2 already delivered and Reach, Fable 3 close at hand, Gears 3 confirmed and MS I do believe still have some game announcements up their sleeve. Core gamers won't be bored with 360 especially if you consider all the multiplats available or on the way like Mass Effect 3 for instance. :D

I'm not at all worried.....

yet. :P

Im disapointed in all 3

But MS are the most disapointing

It has felt like to me, at least since 2008, 2009, and this year 2010, that the creative-exec types have been more silenced, and the suits are running the show more. Like a more corporate culture has taken the helms again...if you have followed the departures of key Xbox team staff, it lines up well with that hypothesis.

To me, that's how it feels as a 360 gamer since the beginning of this generation. I don't like to talk about it too much because people get very, very angry, but that's how it feels. They are still making some good decisions of course, but not taking as many chances, closing down, selling off, or downsizing their 1st Party studios in lieu of buying timed exclusive DLC or timed exclusive games. What I don't like about that model, is that while it benefits the company, we consumers were still going to get that COD :MW2 DLC, or Fallout 3 DLC or GTA4 DLC...I would rather that money be funnelled into new retail games and new IPs. Then, when we factor in the mass amounts of pure profit Xbox Live rakes in annually, and it really seems like they aren't trying as hard as they could.

It's like they are coasting on the great decisions they made earlier this generation, and are in cruise control right now.

Like I said, there is good and fun to be had, but there is A LOT more potential for the Xbox 360 if these execs would just fire on all cylinders again, like they did at the beginning of this generation till late 2007, or get more creative-execs making some real big decisions again. Sure, their is risk in games like this years Alan Wake or a Lost Odysee, but I think that's the way to go....for the gamers.

If this was a talk about how they are profitable, that's true, but why would I care about who's making what kind of profit? I'm not here to discuss sales and how much these corps make, I am here to talk to my fellow gamers about games and what they think is going on in the game industry that affects us gamers.

I'm not saying they should get rid of GeoW, Halo, Forza, Fable, repeat...I'm just saying, they should do what they did at the start of this generation, stop buying Timed Exclusives content, and start funding some new content.

To be honest, I don't care if I get content before the PS3 owners, I just want the game. The game is coming anyways, so it's not a problem. I know timed exclusives are sales tactic, and as a business man, I respect it. As a gamer, I do not like it.

I'm here to talk to you as a gamer.

The companies like Pepsi can keep on making money and showing charts of their success, but if I don't like the drink, I don't care.

SolidTy

You keep on writing in length what my limited english cannot express.

Guess that's what kings do :P

I agree with the TC. MS have fallen off and have gone into cruise control. I can honestly not think of one exclusive game i'm waiting for ... Of course they have an event towards the end of the month so we'll see there but i have VERY low expectations.

After Reach and Gears 3 what does MS have? Fable 4, Forza 4?

I hate you Microsoft, for catering towards the franchises that made your console successful, and not trying to make an impact on the Japanese market after all those failed attempts! What exactly was your response to Microsoft trying out something new with Alan Wake? The game was a flop, sales-wise.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

It has felt like to me, at least since 2008, 2009, and this year 2010, that the creative-exec types have been more silenced, and the suits are running the show more. Like a more corporate culture has taken the helms again...if you have followed the departures of key Xbox team staff, it lines up well with that hypothesis.

To me, that's how it feels as a 360 gamer since the beginning of this generation. I don't like to talk about it too much because people get very, very angry, but that's how it feels. They are still making some good decisions of course, but not taking as many chances, closing down, selling off, or downsizing their 1st Party studios in lieu of buying timed exclusive DLC or timed exclusive games. What I don't like about that model, is that while it benefits the company, we consumers were still going to get that COD :MW2 DLC, or Fallout 3 DLC or GTA4 DLC...I would rather that money be funnelled into new retail games and new IPs. Then, when we factor in the mass amounts of pure profit Xbox Live rakes in annually, and it really seems like they aren't trying as hard as they could.

It's like they are coasting on the great decisions they made earlier this generation, and are in cruise control right now.

Like I said, there is good and fun to be had, but there is A LOT more potential for the Xbox 360 if these execs would just fire on all cylinders again, like they did at the beginning of this generation till late 2007, or get more creative-execs making some real big decisions again. Sure, their is risk in games like this years Alan Wake or a Lost Odysee, but I think that's the way to go....for the gamers.

If this was a talk about how they are profitable, that's true, but why would I care about who's making what kind of profit? I'm not here to discuss sales and how much these corps make, I am here to talk to my fellow gamers about games and what they think is going on in the game industry that affects us gamers.

I'm not saying they should get rid of GeoW, Halo, Forza, Fable, repeat...I'm just saying, they should do what they did at the start of this generation, stop buying Timed Exclusives content, and start funding some new content.

To be honest, I don't care if I get content before the PS3 owners, I just want the game. The game is coming anyways, so it's not a problem. I know timed exclusives are sales tactic, and as a business man, I respect it. As a gamer, I do not like it.

I'm here to talk to you as a gamer.

The companies like Pepsi can keep on making money and showing charts of their success, but if I don't like the drink, I don't care.

Filthybastrd

You keep on writing in length what my limited english cannot express.

Guess that's what kings do :P

Well, I'm glad I could be there to help out SW. :)

Keep on being a great poster,Filthybastrd.:P

[QUOTE="bigboss5ak"]Im confused on what your trying to say really, the 360 is making a profit and selling tons and MS has not abandoned the hardcore.Animal-Mother

I agree completely. At first they really cared about getting out some new ORIGINAL ips that were very different. Yes some of them were better than others but atleast they were trying. They just completely stopped that. They said screw unique creative software, lets ride the Halo, COD and Gears train until its completely out of steam. Yeah Alan Wake just came out but that was in development forever, they had planned that out a long time ago. It really sucks I loved the 360 at the beginning but I barely play it anymore. To many sequels, And the sequels are never really different or take alot of risks. If they put a completely new spin on the games like nintendo does with their sequels it would be fine but they dont, they just dont care about making new fun games anymore. It really sucks

[QUOTE="J-WOW"]M$ has no business in gaming, they should of never came to itThe_RedLion

Successful? Oh you mean taking advantage of PS3s initial price tag of $600 while just releasing multiplats and alternating between Halo & Gears each year, right, successful.......We'll see how successful MS is when PS3 surpasses it in worldwide sales. Don't expect MS to be so "successful" next gen as they have no studios and Sony won't make as many mistakes next gen.

I disagree, I have had some great fun on the Xbox 360 the past few years and with the new Mech Warrior, Ace Combat, Halo, and Fable coming out within the next year or so it looks like the good times will continue. Kinect looks to be a lot of fun as well, I'm picking that up when it launches.

Only thing I think Microsoft could be doing better is I want more Rare games, whether they're XBLA ports or all new games or sequels I don't care just bring on the Battletoads, Jet Force Gemini, new Conker, new Banjo, new Viva Pinata (Kinect title, maybe?), or a new Perfect Dark!

It just seems like theyve chucked all that hardwork they put in earlier this gen out the window. Theyve practically given up on Japan, hell they didnt even try for a 360 FF13 release, that would have definately moved consoles regardless of the PS3 ver.

shutdown_202

There was a 360 version of FF13.... right?

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="bigboss5ak"] Has come to a hault?? In your opinion maybe. Ive enjoyed alan wake and will be enjoying reach, fable 3, xbla games and black ops for the rest of this year which is more than i can ask for. Next year starts off with a bang with gears 3 and of course MS will announce more games as well. I guess im not as easily influenced as others around here i know MS hasnt put a stop to the awesome games.lazerface216

new franchises like killzone, gran turismo, socom and twisted metal. LMAO those are all ps2 franchises. lol there are absolutely no "facts" in your post, all biased opinions.

MS basically said we strive on gears, halo, and COD a multiplat game :lol:

And next time you wanna call me biased check out my profile

some bias I have.

Xbox was supposed to be dead last gen. I think they are doing just fine.

Twisted metal?? LB2?? Socom 4?? GT5?? KZ3?? Are these the brand new franchises your referring to?? ok pal nice try though.bigboss5ak

He referred to these; Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Heavy Rain, MAG, Resistance, Demon Souls, Little Big Planet, etc ;)

MS really needs to get a Lost Odyssey2 made! I mean seriously! Its a new JRPG IP and its the best JRPG this gen easy!
Give us part2 please!

[QUOTE="The_RedLion"][QUOTE="J-WOW"]M$ has no business in gaming, they should of never came to it1Stark1

Successful? Oh you mean taking advantage of PS3s initial price tag of $600 while just releasing multiplats and alternating between Halo & Gears each year, right, successful.......We'll see how successful MS is when PS3 surpasses it in worldwide sales. Don't expect MS to be so "successful" next gen as they have no studios and Sony won't make as many mistakes next gen.

With successful I mean they doing great in all three aspects of the business:

- quality of the library (the 360may havethe best library this gen-console race only, no PC included)

- Userbase (more than 40M)

- Profit.