My issues with Rise of the Tomb Raider

So I finally completed the game, did all the optional tombs and all the so called "sidequests" and... I was left slightly disappointed after so many saying its a better game than Uncharted 4. I had played a little before but due to lack of time I hadnt fully beat it yet. Now that I have I feel the need to properly debate it

Contrary to some who claim having played both I actually can prove I did beat both, see here and here so I think I'm in a position to debate:

Now, let me start by saying I still greatly enjoyed the game and I can comprehend why some would like it above Uncharted 4 but only if basic "survival" mechanics, simplified RPG elements and run-of-the-mill open world activities are their thing. However I couldnt help but feel that all these things praised in the game werent really beneficious to the game but rather harmful and I'll explain further why:

1. "Sidequests" and other outside main game activities are just the common filler stuff present in pretty much every other open-world games (go there and grab x, take down 5 radio beacons, kill x and recover y, etc, etc). People claimed the game was better than U4 because there was more to do but if these sort of filler is what you like to do then kudos to you, but I just dont feel any pleasure by having my time wasted with trivial stuff. I only did it for the trophies, nothing more.

2. Its open world design doesnt benefit the game at all imo. Why? Because it makes it lack in scenery variety. Throughout the whole game you only have a very small level in Syria at the start and then you spent the whole game in Siberia. By the end of the game I couldnt see any more snow and ice before me. Later on the hidden valley varied a little but the icy mountains around it still made it feel like it was the same place (and it still was Siberia). Uncharted series arent as much open, sure, but personaly I prefer the scenery variety more over boring and for the most part, empty, open areas...

3. Contrary to Uncharted 4, the bow and rope mechanics in RotTR can only be used in platforming/traversal while in U4 the rope and traversal where used inside combat aswell. I cand remember one time in RotTR where I used traversal for a combat advantage tbh

The really only thing outside of the main game I can commend are the optional tombs wich have very well thought out puzzles that made me scratch my head a few coupl of times but those could have been included in the main game easily.

These are the reasons why I consider Uncharted 4 the superior game despite still loving RotTR a lot.

What are your thoughts? Also, preferably, prove you've actually played both. I dont want fanboys who only have played one or the other to claim one is better than the other without knowing sh*t

edit: I just beat the Croft Manor add-on and the Blood Ties storyline and I must say I absolutely loved it. Probably the best thing in the whole game.

Uncharted 4 is the king of its genre , and the second one is not even close , we like it or not.

Now that doesnt mean Tomb is a bad game by any means , i liked it also

@Vatusus:

I haven't played Tomb Raider Rise yet. But I bought Uncharted 4 over a month ago and 15 chapters completed and this is the easily my worst PS4 purchase.

The Show 16 was the previous worst PS4 purchase but UC4 is taking the cake.

UC4 is a walking climbing simulator. Actual gameplay/action/gunplay is very minimum and rare.

I have completed both and found ROTTR to be substantially better.

@Vatusus:

Question:

Does it have QTE's like the reboot?

I remember being frustrated by the reboots QTE's and I don't mean because it had them (I don't mind QTE's) but because they were poorly implemented IMO.

Also is the story any good? I found the reboots poor.

Haven't played, only asked because you've played both and it's hard to get honest answers on games like these that are prized possessions in the war of consoles.

I can comprehend U4 is not your thing. But if isnt your thing dont expect RotTR to be your thing aswell cause they're very similar. You still do a LOT of climbing in RotTR. The action bits are probably a little more but personaly I thought the combat mechanics in U4 in both gunplay as in level design were far superior

Fortunately not as much, but still a few

The story is... alright. Characters not as interesting as Uncharted definitely but you can comprehend Lara's struggle to clean her fathers name. Also the near end "twist" is very obvious and you can see it coming from a mile away

@Vatusus:

Thanks for the reply.

They did not improve the RPG/survival aspects either?

They were fairly weak in the reboot and I remember thinking that if they had taken that more seriously it would have set it apart much more in my mind.

I complete the both and UC4 is a superior game in about every way. However, I enjoyed TR as well.

Wouldnt expect any other answer from you...

Nah, They're pretty much the same. You have to kill animals and break trees to craft materials but most upgrades barely make any difference in the long run. Its just there for the sake of being there. Personaly, everything outside of the main quest is done rather poorly and thats why I dont agree with those who say it is a better game than U4 because "its not as linear or you do more stuff" when that stuff is poorly implemented and end up harming more the experience than helping it imo

My issue with this game is. it has everything i hate in video game.

cinematic, scripted, QTE, bad combat, worst protagonist of all time. etc

My biggest issue with RotTR was how it descends into just a shooter. I'm not a big fan of games that introduce stealth but then completely remove it as an option later on. The shooting mechanics are really crisp and responsive but those sections are a little generic. I agree with you on the side quests and I also would have liked more of the tombs, which were a fun distraction.

As for Uncharted 4, I can't give a complete opinion on it because I've only played about 3/4 of it, but I struggled with it somewhat. It looks good, some of the set-pieces are fun and the open combat sections are enjoyable. However, the story and amount of cinematics sent me to sleep. I still think that the standard of writing in games is appalling and tend to skip cut-scenes, or just ignore them. Trouble with Uncharted 4 is they take up a third of the game. RotTR has an even worse story but it wasn't nearly as obtrusive.

@Vatusus:

Thanks.

That was the reboots flaw in my opinion.

It would have made more sense to drop all the extra junk (open world, RPG/survival) if they weren't going to make it worthwhile and just focus on making a good linear game.

Truthfully, I think UC4 hurt itself by making sections so large (I guess to appear more open world?) as they came off empty in parts.

Not everything needs to be open world.

I played the first Tomb Raider reboot and found myself liking it a lot! It does not hold your hand as much as the UC series which is perfect and the stealth/survival elements really add a lot to the oevrall experience. Tomb Raider reboot > UC3, UC1 and possibly UC2.

In terms of UC4, I have not completed it yet but played enough to be grateful that it moves away from being as scripted as UC3 with more exploratory depth and better gunplay, plus the mp beta I played was a lot of fun. I have yet to play the Tomb Raider sequel but can't comment on it too much but UC4, from what I played, is on par with the first reboot.

My only issue with it was that it ended. :(

Drake is a more interesting character than Lara.

I wanted to see more mythical creatures and crazy ass places like the early Tomb Raider games.

I played both, enjoyed more TR. But to each its own. I prefer the level design in TR and the way you unlock areas similar to a Zelda game. U4 the only this in its favour is the diversity of the locations, that actually sucks in TR.

I sold U4 right after finishing it, I couldn't see my self ever playing it again. Was a huge disappointment.

@Vatusus:

I sort of agree but I actually liked the open world part of Rise of the Tomb Raider. To me, Uncharted 4's overall adventure is better than Tomb Raider. But Tomb Raider has more to do aside from the story.

Same here. But playing ROTTR on PC however is where the fun starts while playing it in 1440p/60fps and besides, Lara's got dat Ass to look all day XD

But overall, also I did enjoy Uncharted 4 as well cause it has that Pirate Treasure Hunt going for. But come on, playing a dude over a hot ass chick, I'll take the girl any day of the week.

How so?

While I haven't played Uncharted yet, from what I've seen, it's far more focused on combat and cinematic action, while Tomb Raider has combat and action, but is still more focused on exploration and puzzles. Now the puzzles in the 2013 reboot suffered from being so poorly designed and lacking any depth and challenge. Something that was remedied in Rise, as there's more experimentation and thought needed to solve those tombs to get to the prize. The level designs for the tombs are more intricate, reminiscent of the earlier games. The Cistern in particular among my favorites of that game, just filled me with nostalgia in both aesthetics and design. They even give more value to the reward, being more than just a shiny trinket to collect, completing these tombs gives Lara additional bonus skills not attained through the standard leveling map.

And the open world IS very beneficial to the new TR games, designed with exploration in mind. True that the global location is limited, a departure from the old formula, but the scope of the environments are much larger with many spaces to explore off the main mission path. And these environments are gorgeously designed, and using the different traversal skills gives the player a real sense of freedom in exploring all the corners of the environment how they want to. Can the same be said of Uncharted? And this all works in tandem with the gear-gating, that "metroidvania" design that you can revisit the large hubs (again in any direction and order you want to) and have reason to upon acquiring new or upgraded equipment, to now see what was in those regions previously unreachable. That leads to the next point;

Besides the formulaic side missions (fetching and activating devices), there's all the hidden collectibles to be found that you couldn't get to the first time you arrived at a new region or hub. And like with the tomb treasures, there's more context given to these items beyond just being a trivial shiny trinket merely to tally up an inventory. Each relic comes with it's own back story, something that reveals the history and culture of the long departed original inhabitants, or something about the descendants taking the vigil in present day, or the invading forces, or some very personal story of a particular family. Same with the ancient scrolls and audio logs, providing back story from a direct perspective of an ancient pilgrim, one of the opposing crusaders, the present day local villagers, or the enemy forces you're fighting against. To get all this information, you have to find it, it's not handed to you in a linear fashion, via scripted cut scenes.

I would also say you're not giving enough credit to how versatile the bow is. I'm not sure what you expect for a rope arrow as a weapon... do you mean it should pull an enemy in, Scorpion "Get over heeeeeeere" style? But actually it can be used offensively, in some cases tearing away some structural foundations to collapse the perched enemies. Which is also part of its gear-gating feature. As well as the ropes being used to create traversal paths. Fire arrows that can burn away certain obstacles, as well as enhanced offensive capability (along with poison and explosive arrows), and don't forget it's already a weapon in itself. The best stealth weapon in the game. Oh and you do have silent take downs with the bow as well, using it as a choking implement.

And I want to wrap this up with one other overlooked feature that's quite unique to skill upgrades among adventure games, something so perfectly belonging to an explorer. And that's the feature of language - a skill that Lara has to develop to better be able to decipher the scriptures throughout the environment. And it's not achieved through arbitrary skill points, but actually reading, to get better at reading. The more Lara reads from samples of basic texts in the murals and plaques, the more she progresses her language skills to be able to decipher the more complex literature (usually found on the monoliths) so Lara is developing her fluency in Russian, Greek, and Mongolian. Seriously, this is such an essential skill rooted not in combat or survival, but just in cultural knowledge, that which is most associated with an archaeologist. It really lends authenticity to the character for what and who Lara is.

I didn't want it to end.

Everything has a beginning & has an end :(

@AdobeArtist: that sounds pretty awesome. I look forward to playing RotTR someday

Never leave for tomorrow what you can do today ?

@AdobeArtist: you mean grading my students' papers? I dunno, RotTR is calling :-P

The game does have variety in its many Tombs you visit... you get there by traversing the ice and snow :p

But yeah I do agree with your point: I didn't like the Open World and Hub approach of Tomb Raider 2013 and Rise of The Tomb Raider.

Those ungrateful hooligans can wait!! ??

@Vatusus:"I thought the combat mechanics in U4 in both gunplay as in level design were far superior"

Gunplay is rare though.

I never played Uncharted 4, but I plan to get the entire collection and play through all of them soon. I beat RotTR and almost 100% it, and I love the game.

I can agree with some points but this one I had to say something

there's all the hidden collectibles to be found that you couldn't get to the first time you arrived at a new region or hub

This made me realize the collectibles were, for the most part, very poorly "hidden" in RotTR map. I found most relics by just passing by them, most within the 1st couple meters of the optional tombs. I actually do believe Uncharted 4 had most of its artfacts more hidden, requiring you to explore every nook and cranny in order to find them. I thought the idea of language fluency in order to find collectibles in RotTR was good on paper but it was badly implemented in game. It just wastes your time by telling you "no, you cant read this now and find this collectible because you havent find x amounts of papers/books/scripts, etc" and yes, its found, cause you actually dont have to read or listen to them just find them and the game assumes you've read it and gives you xp for that

Kinda, but those tombs were mainly composed by one room or small sections to make it effective

I wouldnt say is "rare" is just that the traversal/platforming sections are too long and too frequent that makes the combat feel too sparse. And yeah, U4 could have tone down the traversal a bit

@Vatusus:

Nope it's very rare. 15 chapters completed and the majority of my time doesn't involve action.

The pacing has been god awful. It's seems all I'm doing is walking, climbing, talking, roping, driving and puzzling.

I didnt feel it was that rare but k, to each his own

My problem with Rise is that it wasn't as good as the 2013 game. The plot was probably the most predictable in the series. The characters were meh. The mystery was missing.

So far, I beat it once and haven't returned to the main story again. This time after the release of the 2013 game I was well within my third play through.

Those saying that Uncharted 4's campaign are among the worst games they've played are either trolls, fanboys that haven't played it, complete morons, or those that hate adventure games in general and shouldn't have bought the game in the first place.

I'll take your word for it, the collectibles being better hidden in Uncharted. But the main point being, the semi-open world (it's really connected hubs, very large hubs mind you) coupled with the gear-gating encouraged a deeper exploration of the environment, and that you had to revisit each map once you acquired the new or upgraded equipment to fully uncover what was in them. So there's very much an emphasis on exploration. Taking the treasures aside, even just from the aesthetics with how beautifully designed the levels are, it's very satisfying (at least to me) to really feel you fully traversed all the terrain that you couldn't before, each new sub-region giving you a different perspective of the expansive landscape.

@Vatusus: just like we wouldn't expect any other answer from you. So what is your point?

I thought that too. I liked the more dark tone of the 2013 reboot, something this new one didnt have. And despite taking place in the same island I felt the scenery was more varied than this new one for some reason

I liked Tomb Raider reboot, and was very impressed with the demo of ROTTR.

As for Uncharted 4, I haven't played it, but I heard good things about it, especially for someone like me who was just burned out with the series.

I actually don't really mind the filler stuff because if they are bad, I just skip them. As for the lack of variety in scenery, I guess that's bad, but TR was like that too and I still enjoyed it.

Uncharted 4 is the only Uncharted game I couldn't stomach to play again. I don't know if Druckmann has this cinematic shit stuck in his head now because everyone wet their knickers over The Last of Us, but Uncharted 4 just crossed the line.

The combat scenarios are great, but in between you're stuck with lame puzzles, lame platforming, and just a whole bunch of walk and talk that can be narrowed down to DUDE SARCASM LMAO.

I still enjoyed Uncharted 4, but I prefer Rise of the Tomb Raider. I had a much better time going around, collecting shit, jumping on shit, shooting shit without having Sam, telling me he's actually better at ropeswinging than I am.

And I love Sam.

And I wasn't able to dress up Nathan in a cute Baba Yaga outfit. Major disappointment.

I presented valid arguments for my points. You didnt. Thats my point

edit: Hell, if I'm not mistaken you admited you only played U4 on its easy difficulty and rushed it. You can see by my trophies I actually did most of RotTR side stuff so yeah, my opinion has more weight on this matter than yours

edit 2: yup, found your trophy profile here. You only beat it on easy mode and barely have any trophies to show for. Admit it, you rushed it. Not taking any challenge out of a game is not enjoying it at its fullest, dont even say otherwise

edit 3: But k. I digress. Lets say you actually took your time with U4 and still prefer RotTR. Fair, I'm cool with that, but at the very least present some arguments to defend your claims cause just saying "X is substancially better than Y" is just going to make you look a fanboy, wich you are

Psh, school's out!

that's why I gotta get my butt in gear and grade 'em!

Uncharted 4 is really slow game. You have entire chapters of just talking, like chapter 3 that all what you are doing is... well... organize trash. The story in uncharted 4 is good, but the gameplay is really slow. Most of it is climbing (which fits my style, but that doesn't mean it is good from gameplay point of view). The game is still good, but godamn the way the puzzle are solved. Just using boxes. Like if Henry put boxes just for that Drake could solve the puzzles. But I still like the game.

Rise of Tomb Raider has much more diversity, and yeah, well the story and characters are weaker than Unchrted 4, it is has better gameplay.

The main difference between UC4 gameplay and ROTR is that you have the opportunity to "play" in ROTR. The story for both games locks you to a very linear experience and if that's the experience you prefer then UC4 may fit your fancy. But if you prefer to "play" and exploration/puzzle solving then ROTR dominates in this area. It is without a doubt that UC4 sports varied locals and that is due to the nature of the story facilitating these jumps from one location to the next but these jumps while great for variation makes the treasure hunt feel insanely ridiculous and paddy. The heavy emphasis on story in UC4 and absolute lack of deviation from the path makes the experience a very shallow.

The same cannot be said about ROTR. The upgrade options that are available to the player gives more control over character progression and how you decide to play. Optional temples offer some very solid puzzle mechanics that is superior to 2013 waterdown version and are very thoughtful in execution. And the ability to traverse back and forth gives the player more "play at your own pace" sort of gameplay. That is not to say the game is not plagued with all of the annoying elements found in UC4 such as drawn out cutscenes, cutscenes for small actions, QTE and push forward gameplay. Fortunately it has less of that nonsense than UC4 but its still annoying. The other elements as mentioned before helps offset the those nuisances.

Both games stories were mediocre and overly predictable. UC4 story is thrown on you so often that you almost feel that the play time in the game was an after thought. There are so many sections in UC4 that are simply show pieces with gameplay so painfully close to walking simulators.

ROTR would have been even better if they removed most of the elements that makes UC4 a mediocre gaming experience.

Have only played ROTR, so can't compare it to Uncharted 4 (have played UC1-3 though). That said I agree with your criticism. Basically CD seems stubborn about the 3D metroidvania concept, even though (as you point out) it's overall harmfull to the game. Everything about ROTR that is good comes from the main linear path. The collecting is rubbish. Quests by NPCs are bottom of the barrel stuff. Tombs could have just been part of the campaign like you said. The wildlife/survival aspect is also handled poorly.

Another secondary problem is that the enviroments do not hold up for exploration. Why incentivize the player to comb the borders of your levels when they are thinly veiled coulisses?

Was very disapointed as I really like the first TR reboot and was hoping for some major improvements. But this is just the same game again with minor tweaks. And the exact same misstakes repeated once more.

Tomb Raider reboot and ROTTR are much better than any Uncharted game gameplay wise... but that doesn't mean they're great since they desperately want to be as cinematic as possible.

RIP Tomb Raider series (1996 - 2008)

Rise was a great game. Uncharted 4 is a terrible game. Not really anything to compare there.