Natal Recognizes 31 Body Parts, Uses Tenth Of Xbox 360 Processor

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lcw0810883

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#1 lcw0810883
Member since 2007 • 530 Posts

Sorry if old.

Found this in Kotaku.

Heres the whole article.

Project Natal knows when you're holding your hand behind your back, according to a new report. But it also might require enough horsepower to limit its relevance to system-pushing video games.

A reporter for the New Scientist was given a demonstration and some data regarding how Microsoft's hands-free sensor-based Xbox 360 control system, Project Natal, will work:

[Project Natal lead developer Alex Kipman] says Natal consumes just 10 to 15 per cent of the Xbox's computing resources and it can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds. It needs only 160 milliseconds to latch on to the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it.

The system locates body parts to within a 4-centimetre cube, says Kipman. That's far less precise than lab-based systems or the millimetre precision of Hollywood motion capture. But Douglas Lanman, who works on markerless 3D interaction at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, and is not involved with Natal, says that this will likely be accurate enough for gamers.

The system depends on a "50-megabyte software package that can recognise 31 different body parts in any video frame," and will know, according to Kipman, if you put your hand behind your back.

At E3 2009, Project Natal was announced as a device that would run off of its own processor and was shown to work with highly-detailed, blazingly-fast racing game Burnout: Paradise. Rumors that Natal no longer has its own processor coupled with this report that Natal needs 10-15% of the 360's juice, raise questions about where a game that was made to push the 360 to its limits without Natal would be able to support the Natal peripheral. That would seemingly diminish the ability to connect Natal to the highest-end games, though that's speculation we'd need professional game developers to weigh in on. Only they know how much Xbox 360 horsepower their games require.

The report makes no mention of the Natal using its own processor, an element it was recently rumored has been dropped and would explain why the Natal is now drawing on the 360's processor.

Supporting that theory of a removed processor are changes made to Microsoft's official Natal fact sheet since E3.

E3 2009:

"Project Natal" sensor. "Project Natal" is the world's first system to combine an RGB camera, depth sensor, multiarray microphone and custom processor running proprietary software that brings "Project Natal" experiences to every Xbox 360 console. The "Project Natal" sensor tracks full-body movement and individual voices, creating controller-free fun and social entertainment available only on Xbox 360.

CES 2010:

"Project Natal" sensor. "Project Natal" combines an RGB camera, depth sensor and multiarray microphone running proprietary software that brings "Project Natal" experiences to every Xbox 360 console. The "Project Natal" sensor tracks full-body movement and individual voices, turning you into the controller for social entertainment available only on Xbox 360.

Microsoft's body-sensing, button-busting controller [New Scientist via TechRadar]

So MS dropped out the chip for Natal is not that bad??

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Cherokee_Jack

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#2 Cherokee_Jack
Member since 2008 • 32198 Posts
Only one counts, baby. ;)
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spinecaton

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#3 spinecaton
Member since 2003 • 8986 Posts

Just waiting for the games, its all fluff until I see games using it.

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bobbetybob

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#4 bobbetybob
Member since 2005 • 19370 Posts
Let's hope that one of those body parts is the back of your foot eh.
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nervmeister

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#5 nervmeister
Member since 2005 • 15377 Posts
How good will Natal be for multiplayer?
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InfiniteBlak

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#8 InfiniteBlak
Member since 2009 • 794 Posts
this motion sensing crap is whatever to me.
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sonny2dap

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#9 sonny2dap
Member since 2008 • 2218 Posts
the only application I can see for this thing would be controlling the dashboard/menus minority report style other than that not interested.
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kingsfan_0333

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#10 kingsfan_0333
Member since 2006 • 1878 Posts

lol what happened to the idiot who posted "10 milliseconds is 1 second of lag"....I was looking forward to replying to that one lol. He must have deleated it. I would have to.

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nhh18

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#11 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

lol what happened to the idiot who posted "10 milliseconds is 1 second of lag"....I was looking forward to replying to that one lol. He must have deleated it. I would have to.

kingsfan_0333

I deleted it because it was horrible mess up on my part. :D. Was really dumb mistake :D.

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kingsfan_0333

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#12 kingsfan_0333
Member since 2006 • 1878 Posts

Why are people trying to slow down the industry?

-Games that utilize controllers aren't going anywhere. So why are people so deadset on bashing tech that they don't have to use? Why do you care if it exists or not?

-I remember the day Nintendo announced rumble for the N64...it was the same type of reaction. Fast forward over 10 years, and Sony fans were whining for Sony to put rumble into their PS3 controllers until they finally got it.

-Motion sensing is "in". You don't have to care about it, but the Wii practically dominated both major console makers with it.

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DoomZaW

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#13 DoomZaW
Member since 2007 • 6475 Posts

i hope the hands and fingers are part of those 31, makes black & white for natal even closer to reality

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lhughey

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#14 lhughey
Member since 2006 • 4890 Posts

[QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

lol what happened to the idiot who posted "10 milliseconds is 1 second of lag"....I was looking forward to replying to that one lol. He must have deleated it. I would have to.

nhh18

I deleted it because it was horrible mess up on my part. :D. Was really dumb mistake :D.

I love it when people own up to their screw ups. It happens to the best of us.
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mayceV

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#15 mayceV
Member since 2008 • 4633 Posts
good thing most games only run on a single core of the processor, [QUOTE="Rudy25"]

BAM!!

thats a prototype of the natal cam, though.
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II_Seraphim_II

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#16 II_Seraphim_II
Member since 2007 • 20534 Posts
natal sounds really idiotic to me. Video games without some sort of physical input device has fail written all over it :?
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Cherokee_Jack

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#17 Cherokee_Jack
Member since 2008 • 32198 Posts

natal sounds really idiotic to me. Video games without some sort of physical input device has fail written all over it :?II_Seraphim_II

One good thing about Natal as compared to other motion control setups is that you can use a normal control pad and still be able to do motion input at the same time, or alternate between them. Fable is doing it, so we'll see how it works in that.

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web966

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#18 web966
Member since 2005 • 11654 Posts

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"]natal sounds really idiotic to me. Video games without some sort of physical input device has fail written all over it :?Cherokee_Jack

One good thing about Natal as compared to other motion control setups is that you can use a normal control pad and still be able to do motion input at the same time, or alternate between them. Fable is doing it, so we'll see how it works in that.

Yeah, Im interested to see how devs use Natal with the normal gamepad.
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DJ_Headshot

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#19 DJ_Headshot
Member since 2010 • 6427 Posts
motion controls like this are a gimmick.
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deactivated-57af49c27f4e8

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#20 deactivated-57af49c27f4e8
Member since 2005 • 14149 Posts
sounds cool and all, but i really see no reason to buy it unless they announce some GAMES for it.
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WilliamRLBaker

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#21 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

sorry not interested specially since they took out the dedicated processor in the camera it self.

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Jake145222

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#23 Jake145222
Member since 2009 • 230 Posts
@williams of course your not interested in it.you only have a ps3..lol
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darth-pyschosis

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#24 darth-pyschosis
Member since 2006 • 9322 Posts

i hope the hands and fingers are part of those 31, makes black & white for natal even closer to reality

DoomZaW

Stop teasing me!

I'd buy Natal day one if it came out with Black & White 3!

Screw Fable 3! i don't need it so soon!

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Blue-Sky

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#25 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

This will definitely reduce the price of Natal.

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Bear_in_Action

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#26 Bear_in_Action
Member since 2009 • 1937 Posts

Why are people trying to slow down the industry?

-Games that utilize controllers aren't going anywhere. So why are people so deadset on bashing tech that they don't have to use? Why do you care if it exists or not?

-I remember the day Nintendo announced rumble for the N64...it was the same type of reaction. Fast forward over 10 years, and Sony fans were whining for Sony to put rumble into their PS3 controllers until they finally got it.

-Motion sensing is "in". You don't have to care about it, but the Wii practically dominated both major console makers with it.

kingsfan_0333
don't mind them, they are just jealous.
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Bear_in_Action

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#27 Bear_in_Action
Member since 2009 • 1937 Posts
motion controls like this are a gimmick.DJ_Headshot
Controllers/handheld systems/joy sticks or what have you were all once a gimmick. Just because you can't think of what to make of it, doesn't mean other people can't.
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Rockman999

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#28 Rockman999
Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts
I remember the day Nintendo announced rumble for the N64...it was the same type of reaction. Fast forward over 10 years, and Sony fans were whining for Sony to put rumble into their PS3 controllers until they finally got it.kingsfan_0333
Finally got it? Dude the PS1 and PS2 controllers both had rumble :|.
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Chutebox

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#29 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51624 Posts
Only one counts, baby. ;)Cherokee_Jack
Lol, awesome. OT: This is being released in time for Christmas, right?
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Chutebox

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#30 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51624 Posts
[QUOTE="Jake145222"]@williams of course your not interested in it.you only have a ps3..lol

Um, no. He's a hardcore lem.
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Zero5000X

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#31 Zero5000X
Member since 2004 • 8314 Posts
I feel like the only thing Natal would be good for would be navigating the 360's interface and exercise games.
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Bear_in_Action

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#32 Bear_in_Action
Member since 2009 • 1937 Posts
I'm always happy to see new technology, because I know there are people way smarter than I am in the world. Maybe the tech-bashers are way too intelligent for all this, can't blame them, apparently nothing is possible if they didn't come up with it.
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flazzle

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#33 flazzle
Member since 2007 • 6507 Posts

Lets see if they fix the problem of the delay with fast movements.

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DoomZaW

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#34 DoomZaW
Member since 2007 • 6475 Posts

sorry not interested specially since they took out the dedicated processor in the camera it self.

WilliamRLBaker

was it the processor? i thought they were launching it with a 3 core xenon and it was some other chip they removed?

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StealthMonkey4

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#36 StealthMonkey4
Member since 2009 • 7434 Posts
Don't care too much for motion controls. I hope NATAL (and PS Wand) fail hard.
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shutdown_202

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#37 shutdown_202
Member since 2005 • 5649 Posts

Only one counts, baby. ;)Cherokee_Jack

Well BAM!

There it is.

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ShadowriverUB

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#38 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

sorry not interested specially since they took out the dedicated processor in the camera it self.

DoomZaW

was it the processor? i thought they were launching it with a 3 core xenon and it was some other chip they removed?

Movemnt sensing won't be hardware accerated in cost of 360 CPU processing power that will deal with data analization, but it lose lag as result

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Juken7

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#39 Juken7
Member since 2009 • 626 Posts

Still not intersted until I see something I want to play on it.

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racing1750

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#40 racing1750
Member since 2010 • 14567 Posts
Cool i guess.
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shinrabanshou

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#41 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

Precision of a 4 cm cube?

And apparently up to 200 ms lag according to Digital Foundry...

It doesn't seem very practical for some genres of gaming, and seems to basically rule out shooters.

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VendettaRed07

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#42 VendettaRed07
Member since 2007 • 14012 Posts

I cant stress enough how stupid this is. Making add ons always gives the consumer mixed messages. First they have to buy the system but apparently its no good by its self you have to get the super cool add on to make it work and thats why they always fail. No add on has ever succeeded I have no idea why microsoft thought this would be any different. Back in the day it was cd ad ons. Now its this they are both equally pointless and gimmicky.

Nintendo did the smart thing and had their system have the controller standard so devs. user bases aren't cut like all add ons do (Imo wii motion plus is the absolute maximum of an add on that will have any chance of success and Im still not sure it will even though its only 20$ and comes bundled with tons of games)

MS should have just waited till next gen. I mean how far away can that even be? its 2010 the system is about 5 years old how about instead of rushing out the product and have it just barely work enough to sell. take the extra year or 2, have it standard with the system and perfect the technology have it be built into the system instead of it being just some awkward tacked on piece of tech.

this is the sega cd all over again and will fail just as hard and hurt MS next gen because of it

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MizFitAwesome

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#43 MizFitAwesome
Member since 2009 • 2745 Posts

I just thought, 1 of those body parts might give new meaning to the term joystick...

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moose_knuckler

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#44 moose_knuckler
Member since 2007 • 5722 Posts

I just thought, 1 of those body parts might give new meaning to the term joystick...

MizFitAwesome
2 pages too late :P
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shinrabanshou

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#45 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

I cant stress enough how stupid this is. Making add ons always gives the consumer mixed messages. First they have to buy the system but apparently its no good by its self you have to get the super cool add on to make it work and thats why they always fail. No add on has ever succeeded I have no idea why microsoft thought this would be any different. Back in the day it was cd ad ons. Now its this they are both equally pointless and gimmicky.

Nintendo did the smart thing and had their system have the controller standard so devs. user bases aren't cut like all add ons do (Imo wii motion plus is the absolute maximum of an add on that will have any chance of success and Im still not sure it will even though its only 20$ and comes bundled with tons of games)

MS should have just waited till next gen. I mean how far away can that even be? its 2010 the system is about 5 years old how about instead of rushing out the product and have it just barely work enough to sell. take the extra year or 2, have it standard with the system and perfect the technology have it be built into the system instead of it being just some awkward tacked on piece of tech.

this is the sega cd all over again and will fail just as hard and hurt MS next gen because of it

VendettaRed07

Financially it might be a success, since I'm guessing the software route will probably make the peripheral a profit-maker rather than a loss leader, and the EyeToy managed to sell 10 million units, so I don't see why Natal won't do the same.

Gaming wise... I think it will go the way of the EyeToy or Sega CD. Night Trap would probably work well with Natal...

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ItsBriskBaby

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#46 ItsBriskBaby
Member since 2007 • 1748 Posts

This NATAL crap is likesaying LA TAN. No one understands its uselessness.

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ItsBriskBaby

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#47 ItsBriskBaby
Member since 2007 • 1748 Posts

I just thought, 1 of those body parts might give new meaning to the term joystick...

MizFitAwesome
I bet you cant wait to play it then right?
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WilliamRLBaker

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#48 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts
[QUOTE="Jake145222"]@williams of course your not interested in it.you only have a ps3..lol

williams? william. as for that last i checked i have a xbox live tag and ps3 tag in my signature.
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WilliamRLBaker

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#49 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

This NATAL crap is likesaying LA TAN. No one understands its uselessness.

ItsBriskBaby
then i guess you think speaking english is useless since alot of it is derived from greek and latin...
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#50 dinb
Member since 2003 • 1185 Posts

I still think that xbox 360 is my best gaming platform, but I really wish that MS went with some sort of an improved Wii-like device. I am afraid Natal will be mainly a gimmick.