New Splinter Cell Blacklist video sparks "controversy" over torture?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-18-new-splinter-cell-blacklist-walkthrough-video-demonstrates-controversial-torture-scene-moral-choices

Torture scene starts at 1:25(Yes..it is the same footage we seen at E3 but with more stuff added in..)

Tom Bissell wrote (Gears of War: Judgment writer)

"a blithe, shrugging presentation of the very definition of human evil, all in the name of 'entertainment.'"

"We've arrived in a strange emotional clime when our popular entertainment frequently depicts torture as briskly effective rather than literally the worst thing one human being can do to another - yea verily, worse even than killing."

"I spent a couple days feeling ashamed of being a gamer, of playing or liking military games, of being interested in any of this disgusting bulls*** at all,"

Personally? I don't see the big deal here. I think its kind of a lame scene with the dumb moral choice at the end. However, I don't see anything here that is worth calling bulls*** on.

EDIT: Video link in article no longer works, use this one to see video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT5uGuSZNj0&feature=my_watch_later_videos&list=WL83BE6BCA9F709947

inb4 someone who can't understand why no one takes games seriously as an artform says "who cares, it's just a game".

The link does not work for me, so can't comment on it's content.

However torture is against our values, no punishment can be cruel nor unusual. It is considered a war crime to do so. I don't know the content like I said, but as long as they don't go overboard with it then I don't really have too much of an issue with it being in the game, as long as the game isn't glorifying it. Like make it a scence where you hear it or see quick glimpses of it, but dont see the full act it'self. You would get the idea without it being disgusting.

Imagine a game where you just torture people? That would be sadistic and the people who play it would have clear mental issues. It would be like someone playing a rape game, it's just not right.

"We've arrived in a strange emotional clime when our popular entertainment frequently depicts torture as briskly effective rather than literally the worst thing one human being can do to another - yea verily, worse even than killing."

"I spent a couple days feeling ashamed of being a gamer, of playing or liking military games, of being interested in any of this disgusting bulls*** at all,"

JangoWuzHere

Hipocrisy at it's finest, or has he ever complained about how he kills people in those games he plays??

I'm surprised it isn't sparking controversy over how boring it looks.

No one finds it odd that we can kill thousands as revenge but cant non-fatally Torture, Enhanced Interrogate (or whatever you want to call it) to save lives?

Morality in war is as much of an illusion as game developers hiding behind "art" to push the shock value of games.

No one finds it odd that we can kill thousands as revenge but cant non-fatally Torture, Enhanced Interrogate (or whatever you want to call it) to save lives?

Morality in war is as much of an illusion as game developers hiding behind "art" to push the shock value of games.

FragTycoon

This is very controversial terriroty, however if we do not stick to our values then our enemies have already won. Our values is what makes us great, if we destroy them then we are destroyed ourselves.

There are other alternative methods. I hate terrorists too, but when we torture them it just encourages more people in the ME to join terrorist groups.

He writes for a game series where you can literally saw a guy or girl in half spewing fountains of blood and guts everywhere.

The link does not work for me, so can't comment on it's content.

However torture is against our values, no punishment can be cruel nor unusual. It is considered a war crime to do so. I don't know the content like I said, but as long as they don't go overboard with it then I don't really have too much of an issue with it being in the game, as long as the game isn't glorifying it. Like make it a scence where you hear it or see quick glimpses of it, but dont see the full act it'self. You would get the idea without it being disgusting.

Imagine a game where you just torture people? That would be sadistic and the people who play it would have clear mental issues. It would be like someone playing a rape game, it's just not right.

ShadowMoses900

It's called freedom of speech. People can play what they want to play and people can create what they want to create. I don't consider myself a person with mental issues if I play a torture or rape game. I don't feel like a lesser person if I do. You might find that weird, but that is simply your opinion. Especially considering that there are sooo many torture flash games on the internet, and there are a ton of Japanese games that have gratuitous amounts of rape. I'm not doing anything morally wrong by playing around with such content.

This is not splinter cell. this is uncharted/gears clone with automatic kills and apeal to lowest common denominator. even new Hitman looks A lot betterSNIPER4321

Huh? That was barely torture, it only lasted like 1 minute too...

He writes for a game series where you can literally saw a guy or girl in half spewing fountains of blood and guts everywhere.

seanmcloughlin

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

He writes for a game series where you can literally saw a guy or girl in half spewing fountains of blood and guts everywhere.

parkurtommo

inb4 someone who can't understand why no one takes games seriously as an artform says "who cares, it's just a game".

Slow_Show

Why are torture scenes glorified in movies or tv shows (24) but a taboo in videogames? Hypocrites much?

[QUOTE="Slow_Show"]

inb4 someone who can't understand why no one takes games seriously as an artform says "who cares, it's just a game".

4dr1el

Why are torture scenes glorified in movies or tv shows (24) but a taboo in videogames? Hypocrites much?

He writes for a game series where you can literally saw a guy or girl in half spewing fountains of blood and guts everywhere.

seanmcloughlin

I think that controversy was surpassed a long time ago. Guess nobody remember that series '24'.

Why are torture scenes glorified in movies or tv shows (24) but a taboo in videogames? Hypocrites much?

4dr1el

Uh, 24 has taken plenty of flack for its depiction of torture.

Huh? That was barely torture, it only lasted like 1 minute too...

parkurtommo

"We've arrived in a strange emotional clime when our popular entertainment frequently depicts torture as briskly effective rather than literally the worst thing one human being can do to another - yea verily, worse even than killing."

JangoWuzHere

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

He writes for a game series where you can literally saw a guy or girl in half spewing fountains of blood and guts everywhere.

mitu123

lol yeah, like that makes it so much better :P

[QUOTE="4dr1el"]

Why are torture scenes glorified in movies or tv shows (24) but a taboo in videogames? Hypocrites much?

Slow_Show

Uh, 24 has taken plenty of flack for its depiction of torture.

It still had plenty of ratings and its not because of it that TV shows arent regarded as a "form of art" or bad viewed by the masses like the other user was implying...

Those that complained about it on 24 were just a selected few liberal activists. Nothing major came out of it and 24 is still regarded by many as a great TV show

Who cares, it's just a game.

It looks pretty fun, like they took Conviction then listened to fans who wanted more stealth options and things like gadgets and moving bodies. I am mad Michael Ironside isn't Sam, but at least he's in the game... for some reason.

Anyways, this is something 24 lets people watch on TV, and the 24 game allowed you to kind of do (I vaguely remember being allowed to kneecap someone in the game, I might be wrong). I mean, we can kill people and beat them up, but some interrogation is a little much? Its a game, not real life, not to mention Conviction let you beat the crap out of people.

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="SNIPER4321"]This is not splinter cell. this is uncharted/gears clone with automatic kills and apeal to lowest common denominator. even new Hitman looks A lot betterSNIPER4321

Yeah, I saw nothing wrong with the torture scene. I did see a lot wrong with how the Splinter Cell franchise has been warped and bastardized since Chaos Theory.

Dungeon Keeper, Evil Genius and WoW all had torture. Really, I see no problem with having a torture in a game.

Yeah, it's like they use games as a scrapegoat, always been like this sadly and I don't understand it.

mitu123

It is a relatively new medium, it is bound to get blame.

And this is coming from a man who wrote the script for one of the most violent game series in the history of the medium, in which you can routinely chainsaw people in half, turn people into tiny chunks of gibblets with high-powered weaponry, and crush their heads beneath the sole of your boot.

Hypocrisy's fun, isn't it?

inb4 someone who can't understand why no one takes games seriously as an artform says "who cares, it's just a game".

Slow_Show

Stop comparing this to the show '24' (Which itself is ridiculous at times)

This is a video game, you are interactively and intimately torturing a man via gameplay. Comparing this to film or a TV series doesn't help your argument

Stop comparing this to the show '24' (Which itself is ridiculous at times)

This is a video game, you are interactively and intimately torturing a man via gameplay. Comparing this to film or a TV series doesn't help your argument

OB-47

He writes for a game series where you can literally saw a guy or girl in half spewing fountains of blood and guts everywhere.

seanmcloughlin

I don't endorse the act, but if you are racing against the clock to prevent nuclear armageddon, then the kid gloves come off.

Jack Bauer would approve.

There is a very thin line, but torturing someone because the stakes are high and theres no time for BSing around is different from just doing it to be an @sshole. It's a regrettable situation either way I suppose.

Stomping someones head in with a boot just for the fun of it is morally better.

And this is coming from a man who wrote the script for one of the most violent game series in the history of the medium, in which you can routinely chainsaw people in half, turn people into tiny chunks of gibblets with high-powered weaponry, and crush their heads beneath the sole of your boot.

Hypocrisy's fun, isn't it?

DarkLink77

The lack of stealth is a much more controversial aspect to me.Nanomage

dat UAV!

And this is coming from a man who wrote the script for one of the most violent game series in the history of the medium, in which you can routinely chainsaw people in half, turn people into tiny chunks of gibblets with high-powered weaponry, and crush their heads beneath the sole of your boot.

Hypocrisy's fun, isn't it?

DarkLink77

yep the hypocrisy level is very high indeed. Bet he doesn't feel it though cos he's just a writer for it and feels no blame.

The lack of stealth is a much more controversial aspect to me.Nanomage

Same...

These torture scenes look like cheap attempts to produce a shock value,they'll hardly produce any emotional impact.

Lack of stealth and forced shooting scenes are more disturbing...

I guess he dislikes GTA, The Sims etc that allow for toture. What about gears of war where you can kurb stomp someone. Arguably the worst thing you can do in a fight... and thats ok.

I have not seen the video so I cant comment on that game itself, but the whole toture thing is a part of our own morbid fasination. I would rather people life it out through games than killing insects, animals etc.

[QUOTE="Nanomage"]The lack of stealth is a much more controversial aspect to me.Rocker6

Same...

These torture scenes look like cheap attempts to produce a shock value,they'll hardly produce any emotional impact.

Lack of stealth and forced shooting scenes are more disturbing...

The so called "torture" scene kind of fits the situation. Sure, it's brutal, but I don't think it's excessive or cheap considering what's at stake. I don't think he's in a situation where he has the option to be diplomatic.

About the stealth...From the looks of it he could have gone through that entire second area (the part after he brought in the dead body) without being seen. They just chose to show you the non stealthy way.

I think there will be plenty of stealth in the game. I'm not so sure why the ENTIRE game has to have him sneaking around in the shadows. I'm a big fan of the early games, but I'm glad they are mixing it up a bit.

movie and TV do it too, yet no one complained about the "controversy" in the many torture scenes in popular movies or shows. is it gruesome and horrible? yeah. does it happen? most likely. should it be taboo for games? no.BrunoBRS