Next-Gen.biz: Sony is Right to Remove Hardware BC

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General909

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#1 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
The fuss over Sony's decision to drop hardware backwards compatibility from European versions of the PS3, will fade quickly.

It was the right decision for Sony to make, and ought to have been made earlier. Sony will almost certainly do the same with future iterations of the console around the world.

In fact, the company told us it would drop hardware emulation way back in the summer of 2006. A report in Ultra One Monthly, a Japanese technology magazine in June of last year stated that the firm would be removing the PS2 chipset from future revisions of the PS3 hardware once it completed development of a software-based emulator.

We don't know how much Sony is saving by removing this chip but our very rough estimate is around $30 - a significant amount of money for a company in dire need of controlling losses on its hardware.

It is becoming clearer to everyone, including Sony, that there will be no clear winner in this console generation and that the sort of luxuries associated with market dominance are not available to the company. Guaranteed hardware backwards compatibility is one of these.

Link


so what are Cows going to say now that the ps3 BC is going to be the same as the xbox 360.

Sorry if old
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venture00

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#2 venture00
Member since 2004 • 1060 Posts
They will say that its fake
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pins_basic

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#3 pins_basic
Member since 2003 • 11521 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"]The fuss over Sony's decision to drop hardware backwards compatibility from European versions of the PS3, will fade quickly.

It was the right decision for Sony to make, and ought to have been made earlier. Sony will almost certainly do the same with future iterations of the console around the world.

In fact, the company told us it would drop hardware emulation way back in the summer of 2006. A report in Ultra One Monthly, a Japanese technology magazine in June of last year stated that the firm would be removing the PS2 chipset from future revisions of the PS3 hardware once it completed development of a software-based emulator.

We don't know how much Sony is saving by removing this chip but our very rough estimate is around $30 - a significant amount of money for a company in dire need of controlling losses on its hardware.

It is becoming clearer to everyone, including Sony, that there will be no clear winner in this console generation and that the sort of luxuries associated with market dominance are not available to the company. Guaranteed hardware backwards compatibility is one of these.

Link


so what are Cows going to say now that the ps3 BC is going to be the same as the xbox 360.

Sorry if old

You mean worse?
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tape990

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#4 tape990
Member since 2003 • 606 Posts
I can see them saying that Hardware backwards compatibility was a bad idea from the start and Software backwards compatibility was all way's the way to go.
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General909

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#5 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
What Cow's dont have anything to say?
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venture00

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#6 venture00
Member since 2004 • 1060 Posts
What Cow's dont have anything to say?General909


they don't have excuses!
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InfamousC

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#7 InfamousC
Member since 2006 • 2389 Posts
Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.
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General909

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#8 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.InfamousC


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.
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Javy03

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#9 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
[QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.General909


It will  if your ps3 breaks down.

and they can't fix the BC problem via firmware like they did with the U.S. ones, Why???
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SpruceCaboose

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#10 SpruceCaboose
Member since 2005 • 24589 Posts
    It lowers cost, which is good for Sony, but this is exactly what Microsoft did with the 360 BC, and Sony Fans could not stop bashing that, so its not good for Sony Fans in the UK.
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Runningflame570

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#11 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
Theres a difference here...he mentions that it will only be done for all future iterations ONCE THE EMULATION TECHNOLOGY IS COMPLETE. None of this, "Oh you can play a dozen of the most popular games day one" BS Microsoft pulled. Besides, at this point I don't think we know whether its PS2 hardware that is being pulled, PS1 hardware, or both and that makes a big difference in the Backward Compatability argument as perceivably many people could be looking for PS2 backwards comp, but frankly the PS1 backwards comp on the PS2 is already darn good (something like a dozen titles don't work), not to mention the vast majority of people don't even own the system or games anymore. Theres a number of unknowns here that could be big problems of minimal issues so its a bit immature to be making these kinds of threads.
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_AsasN_

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#12 _AsasN_
Member since 2003 • 3646 Posts
[QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.General909


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.

That's what warranty is for.
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General909

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#13 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all._AsasN_


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.

That's what warranty is for.



And then you get a new ps3 that want play all of your ps2 or ps1 games like your old ps3 did.
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dangould1985

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#14 dangould1985
Member since 2006 • 124 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Theres a difference here...he mentions that it will only be done for all future iterations ONCE THE EMULATION TECHNOLOGY IS COMPLETE. None of this, "Oh you can play a dozen of the most popular games day one" BS Microsoft pulled. Besides, at this point I don't think we know whether its PS2 hardware that is being pulled, PS1 hardware, or both and that makes a big difference in the Backward Compatability argument as perceivably many people could be looking for PS2 backwards comp, but frankly the PS1 backwards comp on the PS2 is already darn good (something like a dozen titles don't work), not to mention the vast majority of people don't even own the system or games anymore. Theres a number of unknowns here that could be big problems of minimal issues so its a bit immature to be making these kinds of threads.

Its the PS2 (emotion) chip that was pulled
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General909

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#15 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
WOW you know this was a bad move from sony when cows want defend them.
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Ericvon71

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#16 Ericvon71
Member since 2004 • 3219 Posts
First off I am no f+++ cow..............and I could careless!  There are only a handfull of old games that I play anyway!
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General909

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#17 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
First off I am no f+++ cow..............and I could careless! There are only a handfull of old games that I play anyway!Ericvon71


But how do you know the handfull of game's you have will work with the new ps3?
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useLOGIC

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#18 useLOGIC
Member since 2006 • 2802 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"]What Cow's dont have anything to say?venture00


they don't have excuses!


who cares??
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Runningflame570

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#19 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
[QUOTE="dangould1985"] Its the PS2 (emotion) chip that was pulled

Thats most definitely the worst of the two choices considering how amazing the emulation for PS1 was on Slimline PS2s, but I'm still going to have to see the end results to determine whether the cost outweighs the benefit.
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Javy03

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#20 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
    It lowers cost, which is good for Sony, but this is exactly what Microsoft did with the 360 BC, and Sony Fans could not stop bashing that, so its not good for Sony Fans in the UK.SpruceCaboose
Umm no, MS didnt have the rights to the hardware used for BC on the XBOX. Sony has every intention to use firmware updates to get the European PS3 up to par with the U.S. version, MS has done little to the BC of the 360.
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Javy03

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#21 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
[QUOTE="_AsasN_"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.General909


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.

That's what warranty is for.



And then you get a new ps3 that want play all of your ps2 or ps1 games like your old ps3 did.

They are being updated via firmware. Sony has been great with their updates for BC, MS has not so i trust Sony getting the European PS3s up to speed quickly.
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Blue-Sphere

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#22 Blue-Sphere
Member since 2006 • 1972 Posts
So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again.
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kage_53

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#23 kage_53
Member since 2006 • 12671 Posts
Sony said they will update PS3's BC through firmware updates.
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Kahuna_1

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#24 Kahuna_1
Member since 2006 • 7948 Posts
what makes you think sony's emulation wont be better then the 360s?
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Javy03

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#25 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. Blue-Sphere
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.
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General909

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#26 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. Javy03
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Looking at sonys past on what they said what was going to be done on the ps3 and what was done, I know for a facked that the New BC will be 100% BC :roll:
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alex1889

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#27 alex1889
Member since 2006 • 1633 Posts
if we can afford to buying a gaming console that much, we can afford $30 more, right?
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The_Game21x

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#28 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

I hope I manage to get my PS3 before they take out the PS2 chips...

Is this going to effect PS3's outside of Europe or is this just confined to that market?

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kage_53

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#29 kage_53
Member since 2006 • 12671 Posts
[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. General909
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Ya because you know that sony does what they say there going to do :roll:

I know. They said they will have PS3 updates and its been happenning. Amazing isn't it :o
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General909

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#30 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. kage_53
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Ya because you know that sony does what they say there going to do :roll:

I know. They said they will have PS3 updates and its been happenning. Amazing isn't it :o



They all so said the ps3 is going to have hardware BC and not be like the xbox 360 BC. Thats to bad its not that way any more, I fell sorry for all the people that sold there ps2.
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General909

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#31 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts

I hope I manage to get my PS3 before they take out the PS2 chips...

Is this going to effect PS3's outside of Europe or is this just confined to that market?

The_Game21x


Its all New ps3s, even ones out of Europe.
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The_Game21x

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#32 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts
[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

I hope I manage to get my PS3 before they take out the PS2 chips...

Is this going to effect PS3's outside of Europe or is this just confined to that market?

General909



Its all New ps3s, even ones out of Europe.

Oh hell no.

That means I'm going to have to buy a PS3 quick...

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tape990

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#33 tape990
Member since 2003 • 606 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. kage_53
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Ya because you know that sony does what they say there going to do :roll:

I know. They said they will have PS3 updates and its been happenning. Amazing isn't it :o



Reely, Were this the update that fixes the ps3 working 100% on old HDtv's. oh ya there is not going to be one any more. Amazing isn't it :o
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kage_53

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#34 kage_53
Member since 2006 • 12671 Posts
[QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. General909
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Ya because you know that sony does what they say there going to do :roll:

I know. They said they will have PS3 updates and its been happenning. Amazing isn't it :o



They all so said the ps3 is going to have hardware BC and not be like the xbox 360 BC. Thats to bad its not that way any more, I fell sorry for all the people that sold there ps2.

The 360's backwards compatibility is more limited because only the highest selling Xbox games are the only backwards compatible games. It still doesn't have great games that didn't sell well like Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Phantom Dust, Shenmue 2 and so no. All the current PS3 owners have won't have a problem with that and Sony has done a good job with the firmware updates. I don't expect every single game to be backwards compatible but the majority will be.
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tape990

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#35 tape990
Member since 2003 • 606 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. kage_53
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Ya because you know that sony does what they say there going to do :roll:

I know. They said they will have PS3 updates and its been happenning. Amazing isn't it :o



They all so said the ps3 is going to have hardware BC and not be like the xbox 360 BC. Thats to bad its not that way any more, I fell sorry for all the people that sold there ps2.

The 360's backwards compatibility is more limited because only the highest selling Xbox games are the only backwards compatible games. It still doesn't have great games that didn't sell well like Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Phantom Dust, Shenmue 2 and so no. All the current PS3 owners have won't have a problem with that and Sony has done a good job with the firmware updates. I don't expect every single game to be backwards compatible but the majority will be.



And some of the games you named like Shenmue 2 do work on the 360.
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General909

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#36 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]So essentially, all the Cows just lost the right to bash the backwards comp. of the 360 ever again. kage_53
Umm lets see my PS3 is fully BC capable. The European one is gonna do it via emulation and will be updated via firmware and Sony has been great with updates so no.



Ya because you know that sony does what they say there going to do :roll:

I know. They said they will have PS3 updates and its been happenning. Amazing isn't it :o



They all so said the ps3 is going to have hardware BC and not be like the xbox 360 BC. Thats to bad its not that way any more, I fell sorry for all the people that sold there ps2.

The 360's backwards compatibility is more limited because only the highest selling Xbox games are the only backwards compatible games. It still doesn't have great games that didn't sell well like Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Phantom Dust, Shenmue 2 and so no. All the current PS3 owners have won't have a problem with that and Sony has done a good job with the firmware updates. I don't expect every single game to be backwards compatible but the majority will be.



And what makes you think the new ps3 Bc will work with 90% of the games off the start?
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xboxps2cube

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#37 xboxps2cube
Member since 2005 • 1362 Posts
[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="_AsasN_"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.Javy03


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.

That's what warranty is for.



And then you get a new ps3 that want play all of your ps2 or ps1 games like your old ps3 did.

They are being updated via firmware. Sony has been great with their updates for BC, MS has not so i trust Sony getting the European PS3s up to speed quickly.

software will be better anyways graphics wise because the games wont be limited to the older hardware chips... and yes IMO the BC will be better than 360's hands down.
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mwa

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#38 mwa
Member since 2003 • 2639 Posts
fact: sony will get pwned in europe for this
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tape990

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#39 tape990
Member since 2003 • 606 Posts
[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="_AsasN_"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.xboxps2cube


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.

That's what warranty is for.



And then you get a new ps3 that want play all of your ps2 or ps1 games like your old ps3 did.

They are being updated via firmware. Sony has been great with their updates for BC, MS has not so i trust Sony getting the European PS3s up to speed quickly.

software will be better anyways graphics wise because the games wont be limited to the older hardware chips... and yes IMO the BC will be better than 360's hands down.



Ok? and you know this how?
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TekkenMaster606

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#40 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
My Playstation 3 has the Emotion Engine chip in it, so I can't complain...

But software emulation is pretty cool. Look what it did for those Xbox 360 titles...
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tape990

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#41 tape990
Member since 2003 • 606 Posts
My Playstation 3 has the Emotion Engine chip in it, so I can't complain...

But software emulation is pretty cool. Look what it did for those Xbox 360 titles...
TekkenMaster606


You cows find software emulation to be cool now after saying that it was a bad thing that the 360 went with it and not went with hardware.OK
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asdasd

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#42 asdasd
Member since 2005 • 4464 Posts
Well , see. This is what pisses me off. People think that only like under 100 games will be supported or something. They have been working on the software emulation for OVER nine months. It will support much more games than the 360s BC ( Not trying to diss the 360 lemmings )
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asdasd

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#43 asdasd
Member since 2005 • 4464 Posts
[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]My Playstation 3 has the Emotion Engine chip in it, so I can't complain...

But software emulation is pretty cool. Look what it did for those Xbox 360 titles...
tape990


You cows find software emulation to be cool now after saying that it was a bad thing that the 360 went with it and not went with hardware.OK


Well , the 360 didnt really have a choice. Nvidia didnt let MS use their code or something ( that the original xbox games used) because MS went with ATI for the 360. Sony told us that they would drop the PS2 hardware once they got a software emulator working. People just forgot about it heh :D
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books83

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#44 books83
Member since 2005 • 3733 Posts

[QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.Javy03


It will  if your ps3 breaks down.

and they can't fix the BC problem via firmware like they did with the U.S. ones, Why???

Becuase they said that it wasn't a priority and that in the future won't focus resources on it.

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giantsfan91

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#45 giantsfan91
Member since 2004 • 199 Posts
M$ has all but announced a new version of the 360 with a larger HDD, HDMI and most likely needed for IPTV and all Lemmings can do is complain about Sony removing a chip and replacing it with software emulation. Pretty pathetic. And don't give me the "it's just a rumor" line because Lemmings are just taking a wild stab at how well the emulation will work as well.
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mwa

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#46 mwa
Member since 2003 • 2639 Posts
M$ has all but announced a new version of the 360 with a larger HDD, HDMI and most likely needed for IPTV and all Lemmings can do is complain about Sony removing a chip and replacing it with software emulation. Pretty pathetic. And don't give me the "it's just a rumor" line because Lemmings are just taking a wild stab at how well the emulation will work as well.giantsfan91

how well the emulation WILL work? and you know this how?
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#47 a_random_hobo
Member since 2002 • 1119 Posts
Although I already have my PS3 and it shouldn't matter to me....

What's exactly so overbearingly bad about PS3's soon-to-be-upcoming software compatibility again? Unless if the actual list of games compatible is going to be as small as the 360's (which I don't see happening since they've apparently been working on this thing for almost a year now), I don't see how it's exactly THAT BAD to claim ownage on Sony. This does, after all, allow for upscaling games to 720p and such, for example. Seems like just an opportunity to make a non-issue into a PS3 bash-fest, as usual. Just my 2cents.
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xboxps2cube

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#48 xboxps2cube
Member since 2005 • 1362 Posts
[QUOTE="xboxps2cube"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="_AsasN_"][QUOTE="General909"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]Well I already have a PS3 so this doesn't affect me at all.tape990


It will if your ps3 breaks down and you dont have your ps2 any more.

That's what warranty is for.



And then you get a new ps3 that want play all of your ps2 or ps1 games like your old ps3 did.

They are being updated via firmware. Sony has been great with their updates for BC, MS has not so i trust Sony getting the European PS3s up to speed quickly.

software will be better anyways graphics wise because the games wont be limited to the older hardware chips... and yes IMO the BC will be better than 360's hands down.



Ok? and you know this how?

I did say in my opinion.... I dont know but if Sony makes the software right, we wont have any problems via on par with computer emulators for game systems
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General909

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#49 General909
Member since 2007 • 541 Posts
Although I already have my PS3 and it shouldn't matter to me....

What's exactly so overbearingly bad about PS3's soon-to-be-upcoming software compatibility again? Unless if the actual list of games compatible is going to be as small as the 360's (which I don't see happening since they've apparently been working on this thing for almost a year now), I don't see how it's exactly THAT BAD to claim ownage on Sony. This does, after all, allow for upscaling games to 720p and such, for example. Seems like just an opportunity to make a non-issue into a PS3 bash-fest, as usual. Just my 2cents.
a_random_hobo


You dont think Ms has been work on compatible for over a yr now? and look at how many games they have working and sony has so many more games that they have to get working. I can see it beening even smaller then what the 360 has for .
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GsSanAndreas

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#50 GsSanAndreas
Member since 2004 • 3075 Posts
I got a ps1, and ps2 and a ps3 hooked up in my room, im ready to play no matter wat 
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