Oh no, not another XBL price topic

Don't worry though, this is a tiny bit more detailed than your average topic on it ;)

So during a conversation yesterday, I noticed something. Most people who defend XBL's price generally say its not that much and if you can't afford it, get a job. It's a negligible expense, etc.

So, specifically those people, my question to you is this: did you buy the MW2 Stimulus DLC? Its only $15 for forever, thats LESS money than $50 a year! Whoa! That's a deal, right? I mean $15 is pocket change.

What's that? You didn't buy it? Oh why ever did you not buy it? What's that? You don't think it should have been $15? Well sorry, that's just rude to complain about such a SMALL price. Its ONLY $15. I mean, if $50 is pocket change, then $15 is like, pennies right?

Okay, all sarcasm aside, the idea is that people often bring up XBL's price in its defense as small and negligible as though you have no right to not want to pay it, but these same people will often see things like the Stimulus DLC and criticize the price of it. Sure there is a difference between DLC and an online service, but the concept here is the same.

Thoughts on this, System Wars?

It's simple really. If you had the option to get a free service versus one you had to pay for, what would be the better deal?

Exactly.

It's not about whether you can afford it or not, it's about getting your money's worth.

Yeah I can afford buying a $100 cup of coffee, doesn't mean that it's worth it.

Well said TC, it's about the principal.

Why would I buy DLC for a game I don't own?tbone802

Thinking the same thing. But all we are really talking about is product value. The real question is why do so many people who don't own Xbox 360 like to talk about it around here? Is it because they want one?

you are comparing two very different things. :?

That $15 MP proved that people are willing to spend money, whether they complain about it or not. What the cost comes down to is how often you'll be playing. Although people see the $50 price tag, $15 tag, etc, they can't see how often people will be playing. For all we know that $50 could be hundreds of hours, same with the $15.

Not really buying the comparison but suffice to say, I pay 4 bones a month to play on-line games on 360 - simple as that and we all know we would all like Free > Paying but XBL is not offered that way so it's all moot IMO. :P

you are comparing two very different things. :?

CaseyWegner

[QUOTE="tbone802"]Why would I buy DLC for a game I don't own?rp108

Thinking the same thing. But all we are really talking about is product value. The real question is why do so many people who don't own Xbox 360 like to talk about it around here? Is it because they want one?

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

you are comparing two very different things. :?

Skittles_McGee

but there's a hidden meaning in that line. "oh it's such a small price for what you get."

People are not saying they pay for it just because it's not a lot of money, they pay for it because it's not a lot of money for what you get. Therefore, your stimulus package comparison doesn't really work. People would object to paying $15 for that because, even though that's not a big sum of money in the grand scheme of things, it's far too much for what you're actually getting for your money. Xbox Live on the other hand gives you a reasonable standard of service and content in exchange for your subscription. Ninja-Hippo

Don't worry though, this is a tiny bit more detailed than your average topic on it ;)

So during a conversation yesterday, I noticed something. Most people who defend XBL's price generally say its not that much and if you can't afford it, get a job. It's a negligible expense, etc.

So, specifically those people, my question to you is this: did you buy the MW2 Stimulus DLC? Its only $15 for forever, thats LESS money than $50 a year! Whoa! That's a deal, right? I mean $15 is pocket change.

What's that? You didn't buy it? Oh why ever did you not buy it? What's that? You don't think it should have been $15? Well sorry, that's just rude to complain about such a SMALL price. Its ONLY $15. I mean, if $50 is pocket change, then $15 is like, pennies right?

Okay, all sarcasm aside, the idea is that people often bring up XBL's price in its defense as small and negligible as though you have no right to not want to pay it, but these same people will often see things like the Stimulus DLC and criticize the price of it. Sure there is a difference between DLC and an online service, but the concept here is the same.

Thoughts on this, System Wars?

Skittles_McGee

Ya know it's an odd thing. From one end I agree.

You Pay 15 dollars and it's done. You have it forever.(but in this case the stimulus package was broke)

But on the other hand you pay 50 bux a year for a continously upgraded service. (somehting that changes and continues to try and provide you with the best service possible.)

The thing is 3-4 maps for 15 bux is pretty bad.

I mean Killzone 2 Map packs are 5 bux a piece for 2-3 maps.

1/3rd of the price of the stimulus.

The Difference is

Maps come and go. Because once MW3 or whatever the hell they'll call it comes out the MW2 community will migrate and it becomes 15 dollars wasted for 3 broken maps.

I dunno Sort of like a double edged sword.

i dont buy it for 50 i get it around 25 to 35 because I'm a savvy consumer. Microsoft1234

[QUOTE="Microsoft1234"]i dont buy it for 50 i get it around 25 to 35 because I'm a savvy consumer. Skittles_McGee

It's pretty simple, the games I want to play, and the friends I want to play them with, are on 360. If I wanted to play MW Map pack, and all my friends were playing it, I'd prob buy it too.locopatho

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]People are not saying they pay for it just because it's not a lot of money, they pay for it because it's not a lot of money for what you get. Therefore, your stimulus package comparison doesn't really work. People would object to paying $15 for that because, even though that's not a big sum of money in the grand scheme of things, it's far too much for what you're actually getting for your money. Xbox Live on the other hand gives you a reasonable standard of service and content in exchange for your subscription. Skittles_McGee

Because you're boiling it down to the bare-bones components to make it appear like a lesser service than it actually is. You dont just pay money to 'play games and talk to people' and i imagine you're very much aware of that. The service is very well maintained, minimizing outage and down time and it's updated every single day with new content, be it demos, trailers, movies, arcade games or DLC. Those things are scattered across the internet; you can go searching to see if any decent demos have come out, you can subscribe to an online movie streaming website, you can visit gametrailers to look for anything you might wanna watch, or you can keep track of indie developers to see what arcade games they're coming out with.

That's a patchwork of very different services all brought together for your convenience and updated daily in xbox live, well-presented and well-functioning. You also get the community aspect and the service from the xbox live team. When Modern Warfare 2 came out and there were a host of people using glitches to ruin the online, Major Nelson almost immediately set up a system for reporting and banning people who did it. Sony released a statement essentially saying that they would do nothing. It's also all very well integrated with xbox.com - i can go there right now and download a demo from my PC, and it'll start up when i next turn on my 360.

It's a very well put together, well designed and easy to use system offering more or less every piece of content you'd ever want to consume in one place.

And the asking price is reasonable. That's why people pay it, because they feel it's peanuts for what you get. People dont pay for MW2 because the asking price is not as reasonable. So your comparison doesn't work.

[QUOTE="locopatho"]It's pretty simple, the games I want to play, and the friends I want to play them with, are on 360. If I wanted to play MW Map pack, and all my friends were playing it, I'd prob buy it too.Mestitia

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]People are not saying they pay for it just because it's not a lot of money, they pay for it because it's not a lot of money for what you get. Therefore, your stimulus package comparison doesn't really work. People would object to paying $15 for that because, even though that's not a big sum of money in the grand scheme of things, it's far too much for what you're actually getting for your money. Xbox Live on the other hand gives you a reasonable standard of service and content in exchange for your subscription. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="Microsoft1234"]i dont buy it for 50 i get it around 25 to 35 because I'm a savvy consumer. Skittles_McGee

[QUOTE="rp108"]

[QUOTE="tbone802"]Why would I buy DLC for a game I don't own?Skittles_McGee

Thinking the same thing. But all we are really talking about is product value. The real question is why do so many people who don't own Xbox 360 like to talk about it around here? Is it because they want one?

It has a lot to do with it. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever and you don't even have Xbox 360 so why do you care about it so much? Not avoiding the point because there is no point other than you don't like the fact, for some strange reason, that people don't mind paying for Xbox Live. You are trying to convince people it's not a good deal but again it's about product value. So to you it may not be a good deal probably because you don't own an Xbox 360 but to others spending less than $4 is not a big deal and it's worth it. You are comparing a product to a service which is not the same thing.

[QUOTE="locopatho"]It's pretty simple, the games I want to play, and the friends I want to play them with, are on 360. If I wanted to play MW Map pack, and all my friends were playing it, I'd prob buy it too.Mestitia

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]People are not saying they pay for it just because it's not a lot of money, they pay for it because it's not a lot of money for what you get. Therefore, your stimulus package comparison doesn't really work. People would object to paying $15 for that because, even though that's not a big sum of money in the grand scheme of things, it's far too much for what you're actually getting for your money. Xbox Live on the other hand gives you a reasonable standard of service and content in exchange for your subscription. Ninja-Hippo

Oh I'm well aware all of that exists. The majority of it however, is simply free with XBL Silver. Buying Gold adds playing online and cross game chat, and a couple other features. Which is why its not "a small price for what you get". I want to play a game online. My PC and PS3 do that for free, why does it cost money to do it on my 360? See it from that perspective.Skittles_McGee

The majority of it isn't free with xbox live silver at all, as you receive none of the benefit of the service if you dont actually play any games on it. Your perspective is a very limited one which has no relation to reality other than serving your argument.

You started a thread comparing xbox live to MW2 stimulus package prices. I have explained to you why that does not make sense. For your $4 a month you get a decent service. The asking price is very reasonable. For $15 you get new and re-released old maps. That's not reasonable. So your comparison is faulty.

EDIT: and saying 'oh i'm well aware all of that exists' only serves to admit the agenda here, as if you were aware of all that why did you choose to boil the whole thing down to 'all you get is playing games and talking to people'?

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="rp108"]

Thinking the same thing. But all we are really talking about is product value. The real question is why do so many people who don't own Xbox 360 like to talk about it around here? Is it because they want one?

It has a lot to do with it. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever and you don't even have Xbox 360 so why do you are about it so much? Not avoiding the point because there is no point other than you don't like the fact, for some strange reason, that people don't mind paying for Xbox Live. You are trying to convince people it's not a good deal but again it's about product value. So to you it may not be a good deal probably because you don't own an Xbox 360 but to others spending less than $4 is not a big deal and it's worth it. You are comparing a product to a service which is not the same thing.

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] Oh I'm well aware all of that exists. The majority of it however, is simply free with XBL Silver. Buying Gold adds playing online and cross game chat, and a couple other features. Which is why its not "a small price for what you get". I want to play a game online. My PC and PS3 do that for free, why does it cost money to do it on my 360? See it from that perspective.Ninja-Hippo

The majority of it isn't free with xbox live silver at all, as you receive none of the benefit of the service if you dont actually play any games on it. Your perspective is a very limited one which has no relation to reality other than serving your argument.

You started a thread comparing xbox live to MW2 stimulus package prices. I have explained to you why that does not make sense. For your $4 a month you get a decent service. The asking price is very reasonable. For $15 you get new and re-released old maps. That's not reasonable. So your comparison is faulty.

EDIT: and saying 'oh i'm well aware all of that exists' only serves to admit the agenda here, as if you were aware of all that why did you choose to boil the whole thing down to 'all you get is playing games and talking to people'?

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="Microsoft1234"]i dont buy it for 50 i get it around 25 to 35 because I'm a savvy consumer. h575309

Then why not offer a package for free that doesn't have these superfluous features and free online play. When it comes down to it, it is still a scam. You end up having to buy their services in order to play online games on bandwidth you already pay for on machines MS does not own.

^^ You should pay IF the 360 has the games you want and XBL has the community you want. Plain and simple. And $4 a month is simply not enough to scare most away from those features.

[QUOTE="Microsoft1234"]i dont buy it for 50 i get it around 25 to 35 because I'm a savvy consumer. Skittles_McGee

Really?

PS3 has an OS based, universal party system that lets my party launch into games? It has a consistent, universal cross-game invite system? They have visible and accessible personnel that manages the community in the way XBL has Major Nelson, Tepto, Trixie do? Not to mention the Community developers or the Xbox Ambassadors?

I don't criticize those that criticize XBL for the fee... solely for the fee. The concept of value is much more than a mere price tag. It's mostly when they say it's the same as PS3. Or when they make the sweeping generalization that anyone paying the fee is being ripped off. I'll criticize anyone that makes those blanket statements, pro or con.

At the end of the day, mileage will vary. People that find value in those features will pay. Those that don't want those features are more than welcome to move one. Live and let live. Why is it that the detractors are predominantly the ones with the axe to grind?

[QUOTE="h575309"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] I don't buy it because my PC and PS3 do the same thing, for free. Does that make me more savvy? :?MajorGamer531

Then why not offer a package for free that doesn't have these superfluous features and free online play. When it comes down to it, it is still a scam. You end up having to buy their services in order to play online games on bandwidth you already pay for on machines MS does not own.

^^ You should pay IF the 360 has the games you want and XBL has the community you want. Plain and simple. And $4 a month is simply not enough to scare most away from those features.

h575309

Exactly.

It's not about whether you can afford it or not, it's about getting your money's worth.

Yeah I can afford buying a $100 cup of coffee, doesn't mean that it's worth it.

But thats my point, entirely. There are options that are free, and do the same thing. From the eyes of the consumer, why should I pay? The concept is that the response to anyone who doesn't want to pay shouldn't be "its such a small price" because that has nothing to do with it. I don't want to pay for something when I have other options that are just as good and free. That's the comparison here. Why did people not buy the DLC? Because they had other options. Telling them "oh its such a small price" wouldn't change their mind, why should it change mine?Skittles_McGee

This argument again? Really?

Well, I said yesterday that the argument was flawed. Now I'm going to explain why it's flawed.

You have to ask yourself a number of questions here. Do I enjoy Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2? Do I enjoy it enough to spend $15 on a map pack for it? With Xbox Live, you have to ask yourself "do I enjoy playing all of my games online?" The number of people who would deem the DLC as a negligible expense is likely a great deal lower than those who would not because MW2 is one game whereas the Xbox Live service applies to all games on the service and the audience it appeals to (every online connected 360 owner) is inherently larger than one the Stimulus Pack DLC appeals to (namely MW2 owners).

Hell, to get the most enjoyment out of the Stimulus Pack DLC, you have to have paid for an Xbox Live subscription in the first place. Again, this comparison is inherently flawed.

The Stimulus Pack and Xbox Live are not comparable as they are completely different concepts. One gives you access to new maps for one game. The other gives you access to play every game on the Xbox 360 online. This is akin to comparing the purchase of a game to the purchase of a console to play the game on and it inevitably brings up two very different value assessments. Let me put it this way. Do you put more thought into the purchase of a game or the purchase of a console? One game is just that, one game. The console gives you access to every game that's available on the system. It's likely (unless you have money to burn) that you put a great deal more value in the console than the single game and that's the situation for Xbox Live.

I'm not trying to say that Xbox Live's $50 a year fee is negligible for everyone but it likely will be for the vast majority of people because it gives them access to the online portions of the games that they own. The Stimulus Pack DLC is also likely a negligible cost for many people but not as many because its audience is inherently smaller and detached from the majority of Xbox Live users. That's why the comparison can't be made and that's why the argument is flawed.

[QUOTE="h575309"]

^^ You should pay IF the 360 has the games you want and XBL has the community you want. Plain and simple. And $4 a month is simply not enough to scare most away from those features.

Skittles_McGee

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] But thats my point, entirely. There are options that are free, and do the same thing. From the eyes of the consumer, why should I pay? The concept is that the response to anyone who doesn't want to pay shouldn't be "its such a small price" because that has nothing to do with it. I don't want to pay for something when I have other options that are just as good and free. That's the comparison here. Why did people not buy the DLC? Because they had other options. Telling them "oh its such a small price" wouldn't change their mind, why should it change mine?Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="rp108"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] What does that question have to do with this thread? :? And you guys are both avoiding the point.Skittles_McGee

It has a lot to do with it. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever and you don't even have Xbox 360 so why do you are about it so much? Not avoiding the point because there is no point other than you don't like the fact, for some strange reason, that people don't mind paying for Xbox Live. You are trying to convince people it's not a good deal but again it's about product value. So to you it may not be a good deal probably because you don't own an Xbox 360 but to others spending less than $4 is not a big deal and it's worth it. You are comparing a product to a service which is not the same thing.

My fault on that, I must have been confusing your name with someone else that I know doesn't have a 360. Either way, the concept here is product value. It is a small amount but if you don't find value than don't pay it. People pay more than that a month to play one game. I think that is not worth it but I am pretty sure if you asked them they would gladly tell you that it is.

By the way, you have a friend request from me. Double checking if you really had Xbox Live. :)

Holy crap, this topic again? Here's a better question: Why do you care why people pay for xbox live?

^^ You should pay IF the 360 has the games you want and XBL has the community you want. Plain and simple. And $4 a month is simply not enough to scare most away from those features.

Holy crap, this topic again? Here's a better question: Why do you care why people pay for xbox live?

MangaJ

But thats my point, entirely. There are options that are free, and do the same thing. From the eyes of the consumer, why should I pay? The concept is that the response to anyone who doesn't want to pay shouldn't be "its such a small price" because that has nothing to do with it. I don't want to pay for something when I have other options that are just as good and free. That's the comparison here. Why did people not buy the DLC? Because they had other options. Telling them "oh its such a small price" wouldn't change their mind, why should it change mine?Skittles_McGee

I didn't buy it because I don't like MW2. I don't think you should presume to know what my motivations are, let alone everyone else's.

[QUOTE="MangaJ"]

Holy crap, this topic again? Here's a better question: Why do you care why people pay for xbox live?

Skittles_McGee

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="rp108"]

It has a lot to do with it. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever and you don't even have Xbox 360 so why do you are about it so much? Not avoiding the point because there is no point other than you don't like the fact, for some strange reason, that people don't mind paying for Xbox Live. You are trying to convince people it's not a good deal but again it's about product value. So to you it may not be a good deal probably because you don't own an Xbox 360 but to others spending less than $4 is not a big deal and it's worth it. You are comparing a product to a service which is not the same thing.

My fault on that, I must have been confusing your name with someone else that I know doesn't have a 360. Either way, the concept here is product value. It is a small amount but if you don't find value than don't pay it. People pay more than that a month to play one game. I think that is not worth it but I am pretty sure if you asked them they would gladly tell you that it is.

By the way, you have a friend request from me. Double checking if you really had Xbox Live. :)