One positive thing about always online - DRM consoles

OK, I think the idea of always online/DRM consoles sucks just like most other people. It isn't even so much because it would take away the ability to buy used games but because it would eliminate swapping with friends. I don't do the former anyway but do the latter. That being said I think there is something positive that could happen because of it:

Single player games and innovation/variety could make a comeback.

I hardly ever play online multiplayer. Unlike most people I just don't get into it. Gaming isn't really a social thing for me. It's all about the campaign. And in the last several years I've watched the emphasis go away from the campaign and to multiplayer. Variety has also suffered because companies don't want to make games where multiplayer doesn't fit in. So we get shooter after shooter after shooter. When people hear "single player only" for a lot of them the first word that pops into their head is "rental." Cliffy B. even remarked about it lately, said that making a horror game is risky because people won't buy it, will rent/borrow instead. Well, if renting and borrowing were rendered impossible perhaps gaming companies would feel more confident making those kinds of games again. Maybe they'd be more willing to take chances too. I don't like DRM anymore than the next guy but personally I'd very much like to see single player/story-driven games make a comeback.

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It will just drive people away for paying for games and into piracy. clyde46

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SuperNovaftw

C'mon, it wasn't THAT long.

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games? i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement , also for the devs its easier to justify such DRM if the game has online features

[QUOTE="SuperNovaftw"]

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Wickerman777

C'mon, it wasn't THAT long.

[QUOTE="clyde46"]It will just drive people away for paying for games and into piracy. cain006

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games?i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement

AmnesiaHaze

Devs have shown little regard to single player games when it comes to always online DRM. Just because you want to play a game single player doesn't stop them wanting to inflict always online DRM onto it - Ubi did that with earlier Assassin's Creed games on PC, while EA are doing it now with Sim City.Avenger1324

Doesn't SimCity have some social aspects to it like connections between the cities? I was talking about games that are totally single player.

[QUOTE="Avenger1324"]Devs have shown little regard to single player games when it comes to always online DRM. Just because you want to play a game single player doesn't stop them wanting to inflict always online DRM onto it - Ubi did that with earlier Assassin's Creed games on PC, while EA are doing it now with Sim City.Wickerman777

Doesn't SimCity have some social aspects to it like connections between the cities? I was talking about games that are totally single player.

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games?i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement

lowe0

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games?i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement

lowe0

Exactly. A lot of people do that if there isn't multiplayer and it's changed the industry's decision making.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games?i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement

AmnesiaHaze

There is a reason Battlefield 3 wasnt just a multiplayer only game. For a game that is usually known for such, its a huge statement, taking irresponsible risk is something that gets people fired

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games?i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement

AmnesiaHaze

Isn't the whole point of always online DRM about stopping used game sales/rentals/swapping etc.?  If the game has that why would a place like Gamestop take it?

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games?i dont get that part

id say if a game has to be connected to internet anyway , i can imagine games to include online multiplayer will  be even more likely since internet is a requirement

AmnesiaHaze

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"][QUOTE="lowe0"] Because without multiplayer, the game goes right back to GameStop or Redbox.Wickerman777

Isn't the whole point of always online DRM about stopping used game sales/rentals/swapping etc.?  If the game has that why would a place like Gamestop take it?

The Single Player experience Plus DRM like Sim City and Diablo 3 will equal up to this.

Buy legit copy of game, Game Accuses you of Stealing.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"] hows that related to the always online DRM ? AmnesiaHaze

Isn't the whole point of always online DRM about stopping used game sales/rentals/swapping etc.?  If the game has that why would a place like Gamestop take it?

Well, piracy too. But buying used, renting, and swapping is a big part of it as well. To devs those things are kinda like piracy too.

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games? i dont get that part

AmnesiaHaze

I don't see how it couldn't. Single player games have a tendency to end up at Gamestop after they're completed. There are plenty of people that like to play them but don't like to buy them so they borrow, rent, or buy used and sell again a lot of the time. If all of that is eliminated and peoples' choices were only to buy new or don't play at all I don't see how the sales of those games could go anywhere other than up.

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games? i dont get that part

Wickerman777

I don't see how it couldn't. Single player games have a tendency to end up at Gamestop after they're completed. There are plenty of people that like to play them but don't like to buy them so they borrow, rent, or buy used and sell again a lot of the time. If all of that is eliminated and peoples' choices were only to buy new or don't play at all I don't see how the sales of those games could go anywhere other than up.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

how does alway online DRM  help pure singleplayer games? i dont get that part

clyde46

I don't see how it couldn't. Single player games have a tendency to end up at Gamestop after they're completed. There are plenty of people that like to play them but don't like to buy them so they borrow, rent, or buy used and sell again a lot of the time. If all of that is eliminated and peoples' choices were only to buy new or don't play at all I don't see how the sales of those games could go anywhere other than up.

Maybe you didn't notice the title of the thread was always online - DRM "consoles." The consoles part is important. I wasn't talking about the occasional game being that way but console hardware/software being designed in a way so that EVERY game on it has some kind of DRM that makes used/rentals/swapping impossible. I know people don't like it, I don't either. But suppose both the Nextbox and PS4 end up that way. What are people gonna do? Buy Wii U instead? Play 360 and PS3 forever? I don't think so. They wouldn't like it but with no viable alternative they'd probably buy either a Nextbox or PS4 anyway.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

I don't see how it couldn't. Single player games have a tendency to end up at Gamestop after they're completed. There are plenty of people that like to play them but don't like to buy them so they borrow, rent, or buy used and sell again a lot of the time. If all of that is eliminated and peoples' choices were only to buy new or don't play at all I don't see how the sales of those games could go anywhere other than up.

Wickerman777

Maybe you didn't notice the title of the thread was always online - DRM "consoles." The consoles part is important. I wasn't talking about the occasional game being that way but console hardware/software being designed in a way so that EVERY game on it has some kind of DRM that makes used/rentals/swapping impossible. I know people don't like it, I don't either. But suppose both the Nextbox and PS4 end up that way. What are people gonna do? Buy Wii U instead? Play 360 and PS3 forever? I don't think so. They wouldn't like it but with no viable alternative they'd probably buy either a Nextbox or PS4 anyway.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] If you think single player games will work with AO-DRM just look at Simcity. clyde46

Maybe you didn't notice the title of the thread was always online - DRM "consoles." The consoles part is important. I wasn't talking about the occasional game being that way but console hardware/software being designed in a way so that EVERY game on it has some kind of DRM that makes used/rentals/swapping impossible. I know people don't like it, I don't either. But suppose both the Nextbox and PS4 end up that way. What are people gonna do? Buy Wii U instead? Play 360 and PS3 forever? I don't think so. They wouldn't like it but with no viable alternative they'd probably buy either a Nextbox or PS4 anyway.

Well, we'll see. I hope they don't have it either but there's rumors out there for both of them. And I didn't just mean always online. I don't know what kind of DRM they may be looking to implement if they do. Was talking about blocking used/rented/borrowed games in general.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

Maybe you didn't notice the title of the thread was always online - DRM "consoles." The consoles part is important. I wasn't talking about the occasional game being that way but console hardware/software being designed in a way so that EVERY game on it has some kind of DRM that makes used/rentals/swapping impossible. I know people don't like it, I don't either. But suppose both the Nextbox and PS4 end up that way. What are people gonna do? Buy Wii U instead? Play 360 and PS3 forever? I don't think so. They wouldn't like it but with no viable alternative they'd probably buy either a Nextbox or PS4 anyway.

Wickerman777

Well, we'll see. I hope they don't have it either but there's rumors out there for both of them. And I didn't just mean always online. I don't know what kind of DRM they may be looking to implement if they do. Was talking about blocking used/rented/borrowed games in general.

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"]It will just drive people away for paying for games and into piracy. clyde46

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="cain006"]That could be extremely difficult to do if they do a lot of stuff on their servers like Diablo 3.SaltyMeatballs

If they eliminated used game sales and dropped game prices by at least 1/3 or more for titles that don't deserve the price I would think creativity could sky rocket.  Personally I think game companies need to start doing kickstarter like projects. Not necessarily kickstarter but there needs to be a system in place to see if people are actually interested in the concept and idea of a game before it gets years of work and millions of dollars pored into it.

[QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"][QUOTE="clyde46"] Not really, all it takes is someone to leak some important detail regarding how they do it. D3 has had pirate servers for a while now. The only things pirates can't get access to is the real money auction house. clyde46

It wasn't that quick. I remeber working with a guy that absolutely refused to buy it because he said it was "hackproof." I don't remember exactly when but it was well after a few weeks. The guy tripped me out. He absolutely refused to pay a cent for a game ever. And he made fairly decent money.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"] Consoles also have to be hacked first, which usually takes a few years if at all.Wickerman777

It wasn't that quick. I remeber working with a guy that absolutely refused to buy it because he said it was "hackproof." I don't remember exactly when but it was well after a few weeks. The guy tripped me out. He absolutely refused to pay a cent for a game ever. And he made fairly decent money.

The 360 only took about a month if I remember correctly. THe ps3 a year and a half or two but when they did they blew the doors wide open. The wii didn't take more then a few months either.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] The 360 was hacked with a few weeks of its launch. wazzap76

It wasn't that quick. I remeber working with a guy that absolutely refused to buy it because he said it was "hackproof." I don't remember exactly when but it was well after a few weeks. The guy tripped me out. He absolutely refused to pay a cent for a game ever. And he made fairly decent money.

The 360 only took about a month if I remember correctly. THe ps3 a year and a half or two but when they did they blew the doors wide open. The wii didn't take more then a few months either.

I've never played hacked games on consoles. At a glance it's just looked too complicated to me to bother with. So I'm not an expert on this but my memory is telling me it took a lot more than a month.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"] Consoles also have to be hacked first, which usually takes a few years if at all.Wickerman777

It wasn't that quick. I remeber working with a guy that absolutely refused to buy it because he said it was "hackproof." I don't remember exactly when but it was well after a few weeks. The guy tripped me out. He absolutely refused to pay a cent for a game ever. And he made fairly decent money.

Cant help single player when many people in the United States and in developing countries have unreliable internet. This only drives gamers away from a productfueled-system

Yeah, but I didn't mean just always online, hence the - DRM. I meant any form of DRM that might block used/rented/borrowed.

I'd rather skip the DRM, and just go all digital.

DRM does nothing to help the sales of a game. It prevents people from playing a game illegitimately, but no pirate is going to say "Oh, I can't pirate this? Guess I'll drop $50 on it".

The thing is that bad DRM gets in the way of legitimate buyers. DRM isn't morally wrong, but hurting the customers is, so always-online shouldn't be what anyone wants in their single player games. 

Overall though, I think piracy, rentals, and borrowing are actually beneficial to the industry. I know I've participated in all three, and the end result was me becoming a big fan of the dev, and supporting all their future works, and also encouraging all my friends to buy the games as well. I think publishers are just too out of touch with their consumer base. They don't see what is actually going on when people rent, or borrow, or pirate. They just look at the numbers, and consider everything a lost sale.

It just seems many publishers are run by businessmen, and not gamers. There are absolutely great devs and publishers that make big titles, and love their fans, but then there are companies like EA who almost seem to hate their customers given what they do to their games.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] The 360 was hacked with a few weeks of its launch. clyde46

It wasn't that quick. I remeber working with a guy that absolutely refused to buy it because he said it was "hackproof." I don't remember exactly when but it was well after a few weeks. The guy tripped me out. He absolutely refused to pay a cent for a game ever. And he made fairly decent money.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

It wasn't that quick. I remeber working with a guy that absolutely refused to buy it because he said it was "hackproof." I don't remember exactly when but it was well after a few weeks. The guy tripped me out. He absolutely refused to pay a cent for a game ever. And he made fairly decent money.

SaltyMeatballs

I'd rather skip the DRM, and just go all digital.

 

DRM does nothing to help the sales of a game. It prevents people from playing a game illegitimately, but no pirate is going to say "Oh, I can't pirate this? Guess I'll drop $50 on it".

The thing is that bad DRM gets in the way of legitimate buyers. DRM isn't morally wrong, but hurting the customers is, so always-online shouldn't be what anyone wants in their single player games. 

 

Overall though, I think piracy, rentals, and borrowing are actually beneficial to the industry. I know I've participated in all three, and the end result was me becoming a big fan of the dev, and supporting all their future works, and also encouraging all my friends to buy the games as well. I think publishers are just too out of touch with their consumer base. They don't see what is actually going on when people rent, or borrow, or pirate. They just look at the numbers, and consider everything a lost sale.

It just seems many publishers are run by businessmen, and not gamers. There are absolutely great devs and publishers that make big titles, and love their fans, but then there are companies like EA who almost seem to hate their customers given what they do to their games.

Ly_the_Fairy

I'd rather skip the DRM, and just go all digital.

 

DRM does nothing to help the sales of a game. It prevents people from playing a game illegitimately, but no pirate is going to say "Oh, I can't pirate this? Guess I'll drop $50 on it".

The thing is that bad DRM gets in the way of legitimate buyers. DRM isn't morally wrong, but hurting the customers is, so always-online shouldn't be what anyone wants in their single player games. 

 

Overall though, I think piracy, rentals, and borrowing are actually beneficial to the industry. I know I've participated in all three, and the end result was me becoming a big fan of the dev, and supporting all their future works, and also encouraging all my friends to buy the games as well. I think publishers are just too out of touch with their consumer base. They don't see what is actually going on when people rent, or borrow, or pirate. They just look at the numbers, and consider everything a lost sale.

It just seems many publishers are run by businessmen, and not gamers. There are absolutely great devs and publishers that make big titles, and love their fans, but then there are companies like EA who almost seem to hate their customers given what they do to their games.

Ly_the_Fairy

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

I'd rather skip the DRM, and just go all digital.

 

DRM does nothing to help the sales of a game. It prevents people from playing a game illegitimately, but no pirate is going to say "Oh, I can't pirate this? Guess I'll drop $50 on it".

The thing is that bad DRM gets in the way of legitimate buyers. DRM isn't morally wrong, but hurting the customers is, so always-online shouldn't be what anyone wants in their single player games. 

 

Overall though, I think piracy, rentals, and borrowing are actually beneficial to the industry. I know I've participated in all three, and the end result was me becoming a big fan of the dev, and supporting all their future works, and also encouraging all my friends to buy the games as well. I think publishers are just too out of touch with their consumer base. They don't see what is actually going on when people rent, or borrow, or pirate. They just look at the numbers, and consider everything a lost sale.

It just seems many publishers are run by businessmen, and not gamers. There are absolutely great devs and publishers that make big titles, and love their fans, but then there are companies like EA who almost seem to hate their customers given what they do to their games.

KungfuKitten

I would be honored to be born from the mind of KungufuKitten :oops:

DRM will kill all rural gamers without internet access. For an industry looking for growth, eliminating a demographic of gamers wouldn't be a good start.