One reason I think the PS3 is in trouble.

In my opinion, one of the more important news stories of late is that Final Fantasy XIII will not be released in Japan til *at the earliest*, Spring of next year. This is a nail in the tire of the PS3 lineup, as a possible two year wait for stateside release after system launch is a little scary, particularly because this is one of the few big exclusives the PS3 still holds.

With that in mind, I thought about a common mantra among gamers, that third-party support can often make or break a system. That remains true to a point (for now), but this new info on FFXIII is not without a lesson in the matter, for me.

Here's my point. I think an unnoticed mistake Sony has made with this launch is relying too much on third-party titles. While your system can be viewed as barren with a lack of third-party support, what happens when a system lacks first-party support? Now I know Sony Games Division has plenty of games in development, such as Heavenly Sword (that IS Sony, right?), Eye of Judgement, SOCOM, and Warhawk. Those may be very good games, but they certainly don't pack the wallop of the big franchises. You have to convince people to get excited about those, whereas if I were to say "There's a new Zelda/Mario/Halo/GTA/MGS/Final Fantasy coming out," the name sells the game.

To use Nintendo as an example of this point, look at how many established, successful, well-known franchises they own. When a software drought is imminent, the company usually speeds up development of one of their popular series' current iterations, to keep the system owners appeased.Recently, Mario Party 8 came to put an end (from a sales standpoint) to what many called a drought that started with the release of Super Paper Mario. A month later, Pokemon Battle Revolution will do the same, followed by Mario Strikers: Charged in July, and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption in August.

If I were a Sony official, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the fact that the most anticipated games for their system are completely out of their control.

Comments?

Sony will fail in the video gaming buisness with the PS3DuDisNow

I don't know about all that, but I don't see them dominating like they did last gen. Also, I can see them shaking things up with the ps4.

PS4 will cost...$900 dollars!

Xbox (3)-$450

Nintendo(Lost count)-$275

Yeah the PS4 will help out!

I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
Kinitari

FFXIII won't come out before next spring no matter what happens, nor do I want them to hurry. I would prefer to have the game later than a rushed piece of crap. But I do believe that it will launch in NA much faster than past FF games, I wouldn't even be suprized if it launch within a month of JP.

I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
Kinitari

I'm actually hoping the game gets canned and replaced with something more substantial, but that's neither here nor there v_v

I've been a die hard Final Fantasy fan since I was 7 years old, but after playing through X, playing 1/4 through XII, and seeing XIII's trailers, my fandom ...died hard. This kind of (uh, rhymes with File and starts with St) over substance nonsense has made the series a shell of its former self, in my opinion.

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
Xerlaoth

I'm actually hoping the game gets canned and replaced with something more substantial, but that's neither here nor there v_v

Ahh this is where I stop understanding. How can you claim the game isn't substantial enough when the most we know about it right now is a general premise and a few concept/in-game videos? (Which by the way, blew me out of the water)... What is it exactly that you wanted?

edit: Read your edit - still doesn't answer my question - in fact it fortifies it... all you've seen are a few trailers, don't really know anything about the core gameplay mechanics, so what do you know about the substance that I dont? Not trying to sound agressive or anything, just genuinely curious as to how you came to this conclusion - kinda worried you're jumping on the 'lets get jaded and dislike anything that is popular' bandwagon, please prove me wrong! Well... i'll check tomorrow morning to see if you did~ g'night.

Sony's problem (at least from a game support perspective) is that they launched without a major franchise (or at least the wrong one)and they seem to give unknown developers huge projects.

The big problem with the launch was the games, you can look at the sales numbers: Sony's marketing did a great job hyping the PS3 but once people realized it wasn't any better than a 360 nor did it have any great games out sales declined. There was an easy way to avoid this, release GoW 2 and FFXII on the PS3. Instead Sony/SE figured they'd make more money releasing those games on the PS2, and in return left the PS3 with a (albiet good) halo-wannabe and pretty much nothing else.

The other problem is they manage to give huge, promising titles to unknown developers. Killzone is the perfect example of this, they gave a very promising franchise to a bunch of guys who's only games scored a 5.7. Another example of this is Heavenly Sword, which is being developed by the team responsible for Kung Fu Chaos and all of its 6.5 glory. Meanwhile you have Nintendo with its rediculous 1st party development system that creates the Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other series that have been mainstays of the industry forthe past 25 years or so.And then there'sMicrosoft Game Studios, who either owns or is publishing for: Epic, Bioware, Bungie, Ensemble, Sillicon Knights, Rare, Bizzare Creations and Turn 10 (off the top of my head). Those are some of the most talented developers in the world, responsible for literally some of the greatest FPS's, racers, RPGs,RTSs and action games ever. See the problem?

Sony's problem (at least from a game support perspective) is that they launched without a major franchise (or at least the wrong one)and they seem to give unknown developers huge projects.

The big problem with the launch was the games, you can look at the sales numbers: Sony's marketing did a great job hyping the PS3 but once people realized it wasn't any better than a 360 nor did it have any great games out sales declined. There was an easy way to avoid this, release GoW 2 and FFXII on the PS3. Instead Sony/SE figured they'd make more money releasing those games on the PS2, and in return left the PS3 with a (albiet good) halo-wannabe and pretty much nothing else.

The other problem is they manage to give huge, promising titles to unknown developers. Killzone is the perfect example of this, they gave a very promising franchise to a bunch of guys who's only games scored a 5.7. Another example of this is Heavenly Sword, which is being developed by the team responsible for Kung Fu Chaos and all of its 6.5 glory. Meanwhile you have Nintendo with its rediculous 1st party development system that creates the Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other series that have been mainstays of the industry forthe past 25 years or so.And then there'sMicrosoft Game Studios, who either owns or is publishing for: Epic, Bioware, Bungie, Ensemble, Sillicon Knights, Rare, Bizzare Creations and Turn 10 (off the top of my head). Those are some of the most talented developers in the world, responsible for literally some of the greatest FPS's, racers, RPGs,RTSs and action games ever. See the problem?

pundog

Err... all I see is someone who, for some reason, -wants- the Ps3 to not do good. Almost everything you said is an assumption - you are assuming future titles will be dictated by past ones. And secondly, conveniently ignoring the fact that many popular and heavy hitting franchises will be exclusive to the PS3 (mostly the first party stuff). Also, I am pretty sure BioWare is fully in it's rights to produce (and currently is if I am not mistaken) games on the PS3~

If Sony makes a PS4 it better not be one of Ken Kuntaragi's designs. That dude may have started Playstation but he also finished it.

[QUOTE="Xerlaoth"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
Kinitari

I'm actually hoping the game gets canned and replaced with something more substantial, but that's neither here nor there v_v

Ahh this is where I stop understanding. How can you claim the game isn't substantial enough when the most we know about it right now is a general premise and a few concept/in-game videos? (Which by the way, blew me out of the water)... What is it exactly that you wanted?

edit: Read your edit - still doesn't answer my question - in fact it fortifies it... all you've seen are a few trailers, don't really know anything about the core gameplay mechanics, so what do you know about the substance that I dont? Not trying to sound agressive or anything, just genuinely curious as to how you came to this conclusion - kinda worried you're jumping on the 'lets get jaded and dislike anything that is popular' bandwagon, please prove me wrong! Well... i'll check tomorrow morning to see if you did~ g'night.

I don't have any info you don't have, and I'm not a part of that particular bandwagon. I'm just and old fan who knows how good Final Fantasy felt, and this doesn't feel like it to me. Just a hunch.

And its directed by the X-2 guy. Bleh.

To elaborate, when I borrowed a PS2 and FFXII from a friend (my consoles broke'd.) I was truly engrossed for 25 hours. I ooh'd and ahh'd at the pretty airship battles, the neat looking weapons and enemies, the impressive facial animations and cutscenes. I was pleased. I thought I had found the series again, but all of a sudden I lost interest. Out of nowhere. Looking back, I think I lost interest because what had me liking the game so much is like..candy. Its tasty, not really nutritionally good for you, and once its gone, you're still hungry. I felt hungry for the FF feel.

With that in mind, the trailers we have seen could easily be titled something like "Devilette May Cry," if you follow me. The lack of any story detail is what makes me feel like this isn't going to be the spiritually satisfying experience I once got from Final Fantasy games. Or maybe I'm just old, I dunno.

Edit: Just watched trailer again, and is that..a gunblade? Cmonnnnn...

[QUOTE="pundog"]

Sony's problem (at least from a game support perspective) is that they launched without a major franchise (or at least the wrong one)and they seem to give unknown developers huge projects.

The big problem with the launch was the games, you can look at the sales numbers: Sony's marketing did a great job hyping the PS3 but once people realized it wasn't any better than a 360 nor did it have any great games out sales declined. There was an easy way to avoid this, release GoW 2 and FFXII on the PS3. Instead Sony/SE figured they'd make more money releasing those games on the PS2, and in return left the PS3 with a (albiet good) halo-wannabe and pretty much nothing else.

The other problem is they manage to give huge, promising titles to unknown developers. Killzone is the perfect example of this, they gave a very promising franchise to a bunch of guys who's only games scored a 5.7. Another example of this is Heavenly Sword, which is being developed by the team responsible for Kung Fu Chaos and all of its 6.5 glory. Meanwhile you have Nintendo with its rediculous 1st party development system that creates the Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other series that have been mainstays of the industry forthe past 25 years or so.And then there'sMicrosoft Game Studios, who either owns or is publishing for: Epic, Bioware, Bungie, Ensemble, Sillicon Knights, Rare, Bizzare Creations and Turn 10 (off the top of my head). Those are some of the most talented developers in the world, responsible for literally some of the greatest FPS's, racers, RPGs,RTSs and action games ever. See the problem?

Kinitari

Err... all I see is someone who, for some reason, -wants- the Ps3 to not do good. Almost everything you said is an assumption - you are assuming future titles will be dictated by past ones. And secondly, conveniently ignoring the fact that many popular and heavy hitting franchises will be exclusive to the PS3 (mostly the first party stuff). Also, I am pretty sure BioWare is fully in it's rights to produce (and currently is if I am not mistaken) games on the PS3~

Obviously a company can improve when developing a game, but who is more likely to make a great game, Guerrilla or Epic? MS and Nintendo both have a firm system for developing first and second party content. Sony is showing a trend of handing off very promising franchises to unproven developers. You're point about Bioware being able to create content for the PS3 is exactly my point, Sony could have them making Heavenly Sword or an entirely new IP, instead Bioware's making a 360 exclusive which looks like a major GOTY contender, and Sony has a very promising franchise in the hands of a company thats sole experience is a very mediocre game.

:o Your avatar!!! That was mine just a few weeks ago! Click my sig! Join my union!

Iced Earth is the greatest!!!!!!!

Sorry, i got a little excited. :P

Sony will fail in the video gaming buisness with the PS3DuDisNow

Naw their just milking the ps2, Nintendo and Microsoft last gen systems failed so they can't milk their last gen consoles. Ps2 sales will decline and ps3 sales will go up. Less ps3's they sell the slower they lose money off the ps3.

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="pundog"]

Sony's problem (at least from a game support perspective) is that they launched without a major franchise (or at least the wrong one)and they seem to give unknown developers huge projects.

The big problem with the launch was the games, you can look at the sales numbers: Sony's marketing did a great job hyping the PS3 but once people realized it wasn't any better than a 360 nor did it have any great games out sales declined. There was an easy way to avoid this, release GoW 2 and FFXII on the PS3. Instead Sony/SE figured they'd make more money releasing those games on the PS2, and in return left the PS3 with a (albiet good) halo-wannabe and pretty much nothing else.

The other problem is they manage to give huge, promising titles to unknown developers. Killzone is the perfect example of this, they gave a very promising franchise to a bunch of guys who's only games scored a 5.7. Another example of this is Heavenly Sword, which is being developed by the team responsible for Kung Fu Chaos and all of its 6.5 glory. Meanwhile you have Nintendo with its rediculous 1st party development system that creates the Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other series that have been mainstays of the industry forthe past 25 years or so.And then there'sMicrosoft Game Studios, who either owns or is publishing for: Epic, Bioware, Bungie, Ensemble, Sillicon Knights, Rare, Bizzare Creations and Turn 10 (off the top of my head). Those are some of the most talented developers in the world, responsible for literally some of the greatest FPS's, racers, RPGs,RTSs and action games ever. See the problem?

pundog

Err... all I see is someone who, for some reason, -wants- the Ps3 to not do good. Almost everything you said is an assumption - you are assuming future titles will be dictated by past ones. And secondly, conveniently ignoring the fact that many popular and heavy hitting franchises will be exclusive to the PS3 (mostly the first party stuff). Also, I am pretty sure BioWare is fully in it's rights to produce (and currently is if I am not mistaken) games on the PS3~

Obviously a company can improve when developing a game, but who is more likely to make a great game, Guerrilla or Epic? MS and Nintendo both have a firm system for developing first and second party content. Sony is showing a trend of handing off very promising franchises to unproven developers. You're point about Bioware being able to create content for the PS3 is exactly my point, Sony could have them making Heavenly Sword or an entirely new IP, instead Bioware's making a 360 exclusive which looks like a major GOTY contender, and Sony has a very promising franchise in the hands of a company thats sole experience is a very mediocre game.

Also, Sony's 1st party devs are some of the greatest in the world. Polyphony Digital? Team Ico? David Jaffe? Naughty Dog? Gran Turismo? Twisted Metal? God of War? Jak & Daxter? Shadow of the Colossus? All first party.

Sony also has many 2nd party devs, as well. Last gen they had Insomniac, and this gen they've stolen Factor 5 from Nintendo, and have taken on many others as well, such as Media Molecule and Ninja Theory. To these latter studios, you say they are "unproven" but what's wrong with that? Sony is the company that takes this most risks in this regard, and they often pay off. Ninja Theory and MM are developing games right now that put their original works to shame, because they now haveactually have money. A budget goes a long way, and the lackthereof can really hurt a game. Newbie dev studios with little to no support at all are obviously going to make mediocre titles.

Also, I can't believe you're praising MS's 1st/2nd party. They are by far the weakest of the big 3, and employ far less devs and make far less 1st party games than the other 2. Bungie is the only major 1st party developer they employ. Sony actually employs more devs than MS and Nintendo combined.

There, you named a game I am interested in! Twisted Metal!

So uh, its been like 6 years since black, where's that new one?

I don't see the fruits of having so many dev trees, as you say Sony has wrapped up.

Another thread doubting the ps3. Let me say this, sony alone is already working on 150 + exclusives and with the help of third party company's and the psp, and the ps2 and sony computers, tv's music, movies, sony will be just fine man, trust me. I can show u a list right now of just a few ps3 exclusives that will show u sony is no where near being a failure.

Unreleased Games - 100 Titles (As of May 16 2007)
SOCOM confrontations
Afrika - LINK
Airtight PS3 Project [Untitled] - LINK
Aqua Vita - LINK
Big Time Revenge - LINK
BioWare Project - LINK
Brave Arms - LINK
Castlevania PS3 - LINK
Chain Limit - LINK
Coded Arms Assault - LINK
Crytek Project - Crysis [Rumored] - LINKLINK
Danger Planet - LINK
DC Universe MMO - LINK
Dragon Age - EGM 5/2007 - Page 42
Dragon Ball Z [Untitled]
Dreamers - LINK
Driver PS3 - Driver 5 [Unofficial Title] - LINK
Eight Days - LINK
Ember - LINK
Eye Create - LINK
EyeDentify - LINK
Factor 5 Project #2 [Untitled] - LINK
Fantasy Lab Project [Untitled] - LINK
FIA World Touring Car Championship - LINK
Fifth Phantom Saga - LINK
Final Fantasy Versus XIII - LINK
Final Fantasy XIII - LINK
Fumito Ueda Project - LINK
Fury - LINK
Game Arts Project - LINK
God of War III - LINK
Go! Puzzle - LINK
Gradius PS3 - LINK
Grand Turismo 5 - LINK
Gretzky NHL [Working Title] - LINK
Heavenly Sword - LINK
Hero - LINK
Hot Shots Golf [Working TItle] - LINK
Housemarque Project - LINK
Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier [Rumored] - LINK
Killzone [Working Title] - LINK
Kingdom Hearts 3 [Rumored] - LINK
Koei Guan Yu PS3 Project - Dynasty Warriors [Rumored Title] - LINK
Kurayami AKA Darkness - LINK
Lair - LINK
L.A. Noire - LINK
LittleBigPlanet - LINK
Loco Roco PS3 - LINK
Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns of the Patriots - LINK
Metro 2033: The Last Refuge - LINK
Monster Hunter 3 - LINK
Monster Kingdom - LINK
MotorStorm 2 - LINK
Namco PS3 RPG - LINK
Namco PS3 Shooter - LINK
Namco PS3 Sports Project - LINK
Ninja Gaiden Sigma - LINK
NiOh - LINK
Nucleus - LINK
Pixel Junk - LINKLINK
Project Psychic [Working Title] - LINK
Pterodon FPS Project [Untitled] - LINK
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction [Working Title] - LINK
Redwood Falls - LINK
Rengoku The End of the Century - LINK
Resistance 2 [Rumored, But Likely] - EGM 2/2007 - Page 77
Returning Alive [Working Title] - LINK
Rockstar Old West PS3 Project [Untitled] - LINK
Romance of the Three Kingdoms PS3 - LINK
Sam Suede: Undercover Exposure - LINK
Second - LINK
Secret Service - LINK
Shin Megami Tensei - LINK
Silent Hill 5 [Working Title, Rumored] - LINK
Singstar [Working Title] - LINK
Skyblue - LINK
Snakeball - LINK
Sony Online Mercenary / Spy MMO [Untitled] - LINK
Sony Online Whimsical MMO [Untitled] - LINK
Starbreeze Next-Gen Project [Untitled] - LINK
Sucker Punch Project [Untitled] - LINK
Team Siren Project [Untitled] - LINK
Tecmo Action-Adventure [Untitled] - LINKLINK
Tekken 6 - LINK
Time Crisis 4 - LINK
thatgamecompany Project #2 [Untitled] - LINK
thatgamecompany Project #3 [Untitled] - LINK
The Eye of Judgment [Working Title] - LINK
The Getaway [Working Title] - LINK
The Wall - LINK
Twelve Interactive Sci-Fi action game [Untitled]
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune - LINK
Unknown Realms - LINK
WarDevil Enigma - LINK
Warhawk - LINK
Way of the Samurai 3 - LINK
White Knight Story - LINK
Wipeout Pulse [Working TItle] - LINK
Zipper Interactive PS3 Project - SOCOM 4 [Rumored Title] - LINK
Zone of the Enders 3 - LINK

Do I need to go on man, all u ppl who doubt the ps3 this early, is just setting yourselves up for a late dissappointment when sony finally starts rolling out with there big exclusives.

There, you named a game I am interested in! Twisted Metal!

So uh, its been like 6 years since black, where's that new one?

I don't see the fruits of having so many dev trees, as you say Sony has wrapped up.

Xerlaoth

Lair - a dragon flight sim developed by Factor 5, the guys behind Rogue Squadron. The game is 2nd party.

Heavenly Sword - one you already mentioned, and it's 2nd party.

LittleBigPlanet - developed by Media Molecule. This is my most hyped game right now. You can do anything! It's like the incredible machine, but 3D, way more interactive, and just 1000x better in every freakin' way! 2nd party.

MGS4 - did i have to name this one? 3rd party.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma - a remake of NGB with new playable characters, new weapons, a few reworked maps, and a few additional maps, all with a brand new coat of paint. The newgraphics are stunning. Of course, this title is 3rd party, not 1st/2nd.

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune - developed by Naughty Dog, the guys behind J&D and the older, ps1Crash Bandicoots. It's a Tomb Raider-esque action/adventure that has no load times whatsoever, stunning graphics, amazing animations, and most likely will be a great game overall based on the quality of ND's past games. 1st party.

Ratchet & Clank 5 - developed by Insomniac, the guys behind all R&C's and Resistance: FOM.2nd Party.

All these games have been confirmed for 07 (Lair and NGS hitting stores mid-July and early August). Th eonly games that are iffy are LBP and MGS4. We haven't seen much of MGS in a while, so it could get delayed to 08, though it was confrimed for 07 again just last week. LBP is supposed ot have a downloadible version of the game released this year, and then a Blu-Ray disc version next year that will contain the more popular maps for those who don't have online (will the users that created these maps get payed? :o ). However, there have been rumors that only a demo will make it out this year.

As for Twisted metal, it was created by David Jaffe, the guy behind God of War. There are rumors that another one is in the works, but it has yet to be confirmed.

There's also rumors that the next Team Ico game will make it out before the end of this year, but i find that highly unlikely, as we've seen absolutely nothing about the title.

Also, there are more games than this hitting Japan this year, with TBA dates for the US,so they could make it here as well.

Everybody's Golf 5 (AKA Hot Shots Golf 5) -whil not too popular in the US, it sells like mad in Japan. The last incarnation of the series sold over 1.5 mil. in Japan, though only around 200,000 in the States.

Folksoul (AKA Folklore) - A JRPG the just got reviewd with 8s and 9s from Famitsu. It hits Japan later this month.

Things will pick up in Japan big time starting this month. Ninja Gaiden Sigma hits shelvs over there in two days, and Folksoul, a highly anticipated JRPG comes out later this month. If that doesn't pick things up...

First of, Killzone had been worked on by Geurillalong before Sony even picked the title up as an exclusive. Also, the Guerilla of today is not the Guerilla of the past.They are now 1st party Sony, and with that comes money and power. Also, the size of the team has more than tripled since KZ: L (which recieved an 8.4, mind you) so 2/3rds of the team are not the "horrible devs" that worked on the first Killzone. Why can't developers change? Even the original Guerilla team just needed experience. Just look at the only three games they released. The first one was glitchy bug fest with little to no story, and it got a 5.4. The second was much better, but still had bugs, and got a 6.9. The third game had almost no bugs at all, great gameplay, and a good story, and got an 8.3. 5.4>6.9>8.3. All they needed was experience.

Also, Sony's 1st party devs are some of the greatest in the world. Polyphony Digital? Team Ico? David Jaffe?Naughty Dog? Gran Turismo? Twisted Metal?God of War? Jak & Daxter? Shadow of the Colossus? All first party.

Sonyalso hasmany 2nd party devs, as well. Last gen they had Insomniac, and this gen they've stolen Factor 5 from Nintendo, and have taken on many others as well, such as Media Molecule and Ninja Theory. To these latter developers, you say theyare "unproven" but what's wrong with that? Sony is the company that takes this most risks in this regard, and they often pay off. Ninja Theory and MM are developing games right now that put their original works to shame, because they now haveactually have money.A budget goes a long way, and the lackthereof can reall hurt a game.Newbie dev studios with little to no support at all are obviously going to make mediocre titles.

Also, I can't believe you're praising MS's 1st/2nd party. They are by far the weakest of the big 3, and employ far less devs and make far less 1st party games than the other 2. Bungie is the only major 1st partydeveloper they employ. Sony actually employs more devs than MS and Nintendo combined.

makingmusic476

And I'd argue that MS's 1st/2nd party is as strong as Sony's. Bungie (Halo), FASA (Mechwarrior and Crimson Skies), Ensemble (Age of Empires/Halo Wars), ACES (Flight Simulator/Combat Flight Simulator games), Rare (Perfect Dark and Banjo series), Lionhead (Fable and Black and White) andTurn 10 (Forza), all huge 1st party titles. Plus for 2nd party you get Bizzare Creations (PGR series), Bioware (Mass Effect), Epic (Gears of War), Sillicon Knights (Too Human), Remedy (Alan Wake), Mistwalker (Blue Dragon and Lost Oddesey) Real Time Worlds (Crackdown), Phantagram (Kingdom Under Fire) and others. It may not be as big as Sony or Nintendo, but it is definitely more varied. It just comes down to which games you like more.

I forgot about Ensemble! AoeII and AoM >>> all other RTS. RTS >>>> all other genres.

Based on that alone....i guess MS does have the best devs.

Well, no, because Zelda is the one thing i'd take over RTS. Nintendo wins! :P

[QUOTE="pundog"]

Sony's problem (at least from a game support perspective) is that they launched without a major franchise (or at least the wrong one)and they seem to give unknown developers huge projects.

The big problem with the launch was the games, you can look at the sales numbers: Sony's marketing did a great job hyping the PS3 but once people realized it wasn't any better than a 360 nor did it have any great games out sales declined. There was an easy way to avoid this, release GoW 2 and FFXII on the PS3. Instead Sony/SE figured they'd make more money releasing those games on the PS2, and in return left the PS3 with a (albiet good) halo-wannabe and pretty much nothing else.

The other problem is they manage to give huge, promising titles to unknown developers. Killzone is the perfect example of this, they gave a very promising franchise to a bunch of guys who's only games scored a 5.7. Another example of this is Heavenly Sword, which is being developed by the team responsible for Kung Fu Chaos and all of its 6.5 glory. Meanwhile you have Nintendo with its rediculous 1st party development system that creates the Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other series that have been mainstays of the industry forthe past 25 years or so.And then there'sMicrosoft Game Studios, who either owns or is publishing for: Epic, Bioware, Bungie, Ensemble, Sillicon Knights, Rare, Bizzare Creations and Turn 10 (off the top of my head). Those are some of the most talented developers in the world, responsible for literally some of the greatest FPS's, racers, RPGs,RTSs and action games ever. See the problem?

Kinitari

Err... all I see is someone who, for some reason, -wants- the Ps3 to not do good. Almost everything you said is an assumption - you are assuming future titles will be dictated by past ones. And secondly, conveniently ignoring the fact that many popular and heavy hitting franchises will be exclusive to the PS3 (mostly the first party stuff). Also, I am pretty sure BioWare is fully in it's rights to produce (and currently is if I am not mistaken) games on the PS3~

one more thing many of the companies that where listed for the 360 have already lost their core teams for example rare and sillcion knights had their main guys move one ei why perfect dark zero looks so crapy and Haze for the ps3 will be a great game(fyi free radical are the orignal rare guys)

(this is aimed at pundog)

Also, if you wanted to get into ALL of Sony's 1st/2nd party.... :P

(and this is all i can really find right now)

1st party:
Team Ico (Ico)
Naughty Dog (J&D)
Santa Monica (GoW)
Polyphony Digital (GT)
SOE (EQII)
Guerilla (KZ)
Zipper Interactive (Socom)
Incognito (Twisted Metal, Warhawk)
London Studio (all the oddball games,Eyetoy, SingStar, etc.)
Studio Liverpool (F1)

and then of course, the mother of them all...

SCE (including SCEA, SCEE, SCEI)- this studio is accredited for developing many games, and has many sub studios with no specific names like the ones mentioned above, although the one's above are also sub-studios of the larger SCE. The unknown sub-studios of SCE are responsible for games like MLB The Show, Ape Escape, the Legend of Dragoon, and loads of others.

2nd party:
Level-5 (Rogue Galaxy, Dark Cloud, the upcoming WKS)
Clap Hanz (Everybody's Golf )
Insomniac (R&C)
Media Molecule (LBP)
Ninja Theory (HS)
Evolution Studio (MotorStorm)
Factor 5 (Rogue Squadron, Lair)
Sucker Punch Productions (Sly Cooper)

I'm not saying that Heavenly Sword or Killzone 2 can't be good games or that unproven developers can't make a good game, just that MS has taken a better approach by securing top notch developers to make games instead of unproven ones. If you were looking for a new, exlusive IP, which developer would you rather have, Bioware or Ninja Theory? MS is making the smarter business moves. They don't have to spend a ton of money funding the developer like Sony has with Guerrilla and they are taking a much smaller risk for almostthe exact same reward.

And I'd argue that MS's 1st/2nd party is as strong as Sony's. Bungie (Halo), FASA (Mechwarrior and Crimson Skies), Ensemble (Age of Empires/Halo Wars), ACES (Flight Simulator/Combat Flight Simulator games), Rare (Perfect Dark and Banjo series), Lionhead (Fable and Black and White) andTurn 10 (Forza), all huge 1st party titles. Plus for 2nd party you get Bizzare Creations (PGR series), Bioware (Mass Effect), Epic (Gears of War), Sillicon Knights (Too Human), Remedy (Alan Wake), Mistwalker (Blue Dragon and Lost Oddesey) Real Time Worlds (Crackdown), Phantagram (Kingdom Under Fire) and others. It may not be as big as Sony or Nintendo, but it is definitely more varied. It just comes down to which games you like more.

pundog

Bioware is making a PS3 game(read list of 100 PS3 exclusives), they are not second party. Also i would disagree with you, Sony has way more 2nd party developers with insanely good games, after two months you will be changing your tune.

makingmusic, i guess this is just a difference of opinions, but the only games there i'm remotely interested in are hot shots golf (there's plenty of other golf games i can play instead) and lair. the other stuff, well...i have to admit i don't much like playing as a girl, so heavenly sword isn't too high for me, MGS4 - I fell asleep during the MGS2 ending and never played 3, not interested (blasphemy, i know), all the other stuff..eh. just not for me. guess im too sheepy, but 3 broken PS2's will do that to you.Xerlaoth

BTW, i forgot Socom: Confrontation and Warhawk from my original list of '07 games.

Oh, and if you're worried about reliable hardware that much, i'd steer clear of the 360. :P The ps3 is a complete turn around from teh ps2. It has an insanely low hardware malfunction rate, rivaling Nintendo's.

LittleBigPlanet - developed by Media Molecule. This is my most hyped game right now. You can do anything! It's like the incredible machine, but 3D, way more interactive, and just 1000x better in every freakin' way! 2nd party.

makingmusic476

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
Xerlaoth

I'm actually hoping the game gets canned and replaced with something more substantial, but that's neither here nor there v_v

I've been a die hard Final Fantasy fan since I was 7 years old, but after playing through X, playing 1/4 through XII, and seeing XIII's trailers, my fandom ...died hard. This kind of (uh, rhymes with File and starts with St) over substance nonsense has made the series a shell of its former self, in my opinion.

My FF XIII hype died when I found out that it's "again" a futuristic setting and with summons like Shiva who can turn herself into a motorcycle. They are seriously trying to kill everything that stayed true to the FF origin.

[QUOTE="makingmusic476"]

LittleBigPlanet - developed by Media Molecule. This is my most hyped game right now. You can do anything! It's like the incredible machine, but 3D, way more interactive, and just 1000x better in every freakin' way! 2nd party.

Nxss-effa-sim

[QUOTE="DuDisNow"]Sony will fail in the video gaming buisness with the PS3Xerlaoth

I don't know about all that, but I don't see them dominating like they did last gen. Also, I can see them shaking things up with the ps4.

Another thread doubting the ps3. Let me say this, sony alone is already working on 150 + exclusives and with the help of third party company's and the psp, and the ps2 and sony computers, tv's music, movies, sony will be just fine man, trust me. I can show u a list right now of just a few ps3 exclusives that will show u sony is no where near being a failure.

Unreleased Games - 100 Titles (As of May 16 2007)
SOCOM confrontations
Afrika - LINK
Airtight PS3 Project [Untitled] - LINK
Aqua Vita - LINK
Big Time Revenge - LINK
BioWare Project - LINK
Brave Arms - LINK
Castlevania PS3 - LINK
Chain Limit - LINK
Coded Arms Assault - LINK
Crytek Project - Crysis [Rumored] - LINKLINK
Danger Planet - LINK
DC Universe MMO - LINK
Dragon Age - EGM 5/2007 - Page 42
Dragon Ball Z [Untitled]
Dreamers - LINK
Driver PS3 - Driver 5 [Unofficial Title] - LINK
Eight Days - LINK
Ember - LINK
Eye Create - LINK
EyeDentify - LINK
Factor 5 Project #2 [Untitled] - LINK
Fantasy Lab Project [Untitled] - LINK
FIA World Touring Car Championship - LINK
Fifth Phantom Saga - LINK
Final Fantasy Versus XIII - LINK
Final Fantasy XIII - LINK
Fumito Ueda Project - LINK
Fury - LINK
Game Arts Project - LINK
God of War III - LINK
Go! Puzzle - LINK
Gradius PS3 - LINK
Grand Turismo 5 - LINK
Gretzky NHL [Working Title] - LINK
Heavenly Sword - LINK
Hero - LINK
Hot Shots Golf [Working TItle] - LINK
Housemarque Project - LINK
Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier [Rumored] - LINK
Killzone [Working Title] - LINK
Kingdom Hearts 3 [Rumored] - LINK
Koei Guan Yu PS3 Project - Dynasty Warriors [Rumored Title] - LINK
Kurayami AKA Darkness - LINK
Lair - LINK
L.A. Noire - LINK
LittleBigPlanet - LINK
Loco Roco PS3 - LINK
Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns of the Patriots - LINK
Metro 2033: The Last Refuge - LINK
Monster Hunter 3 - LINK
Monster Kingdom - LINK
MotorStorm 2 - LINK
Namco PS3 RPG - LINK
Namco PS3 Shooter - LINK
Namco PS3 Sports Project - LINK
Ninja Gaiden Sigma - LINK
NiOh - LINK
Nucleus - LINK
Pixel Junk - LINKLINK
Project Psychic [Working Title] - LINK
Pterodon FPS Project [Untitled] - LINK
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction [Working Title] - LINK
Redwood Falls - LINK
Rengoku The End of the Century - LINK
Resistance 2 [Rumored, But Likely] - EGM 2/2007 - Page 77
Returning Alive [Working Title] - LINK
Rockstar Old West PS3 Project [Untitled] - LINK
Romance of the Three Kingdoms PS3 - LINK
Sam Suede: Undercover Exposure - LINK
Second - LINK
Secret Service - LINK
Shin Megami Tensei - LINK
Silent Hill 5 [Working Title, Rumored] - LINK
Singstar [Working Title] - LINK
Skyblue - LINK
Snakeball - LINK
Sony Online Mercenary / Spy MMO [Untitled] - LINK
Sony Online Whimsical MMO [Untitled] - LINK
Starbreeze Next-Gen Project [Untitled] - LINK
Sucker Punch Project [Untitled] - LINK
Team Siren Project [Untitled] - LINK
Tecmo Action-Adventure [Untitled] - LINKLINK
Tekken 6 - LINK
Time Crisis 4 - LINK
thatgamecompany Project #2 [Untitled] - LINK
thatgamecompany Project #3 [Untitled] - LINK
The Eye of Judgment [Working Title] - LINK
The Getaway [Working Title] - LINK
The Wall - LINK
Twelve Interactive Sci-Fi action game [Untitled]
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune - LINK
Unknown Realms - LINK
WarDevil Enigma - LINK
Warhawk - LINK
Way of the Samurai 3 - LINK
White Knight Story - LINK
Wipeout Pulse [Working TItle] - LINK
Zipper Interactive PS3 Project - SOCOM 4 [Rumored Title] - LINK
Zone of the Enders 3 - LINK

Do I need to go on man, all u ppl who doubt the ps3 this early, is just setting yourselves up for a late dissappointment when sony finally starts rolling out with there big exclusives.

squallff8_fan

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
gundamfan80

FFXIII won't come out before next spring no matter what happens, nor do I want them to hurry. I would prefer to have the game later than a rushed piece of crap. But I do believe that it will launch in NA much faster than past FF games, I wouldn't even be suprized if it launch within a month of JP.

Ok so the game will come out approximately 2 years after the PS3 launched? WTF were the devs doing the entire time from 11/05 to 11/06?!! :shock:

[QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I don't think having him agree with you helps your opinion look any better... infact I think it kinda hurts your opinion =p.


But seriously, I understand what you are saying - hopefully the next few months we see a surge in ps3 sales (considering all the big name games coming out), if that's the case, it will (hopefully) persuade Square Enix to release FFXIII by spring of next year.
Magical_Zebra

FFXIII won't come out before next spring no matter what happens, nor do I want them to hurry. I would prefer to have the game later than a rushed piece of crap. But I do believe that it will launch in NA much faster than past FF games, I wouldn't even be suprized if it launch within a month of JP.

Ok so the game will come out approximately 2 years after the PS3 launched? WTF were the devs doing the entire time from 11/05 to 11/06?!! :shock:

Probably trying to figure out the PS3 hardware, that's my bet. And historically speaking, if the game comes out next May (2008) in Japan, a November release is likely in North American territories. I say this because looking at the last 3 console gens, FF games have usually taken 6+ months to make the leap across the Pacific. Check that on wikipedia if you don't believe it.

That would stick the release two years after launch. Wouldn't be the first time either, FF7 released almost 3 years into the PS1's lifecycle, and that ended well. But, that was a 250 dollar investment at the time (I remember because that game is the only reason I bought a ps1, originally), and FFXIII is shaping up to be closer to 800 dollars. You could take a trip to Vegas for 800, honestly.

OMG ur are soooo right because FFXIII is the onlyyy game that is coming to the ps3 in the near future.:roll:

The ps3 has a great line-up just admit it

OMG ur are soooo right because FFXIII is the onlyyy game that is coming to the ps3 in the near future.:roll:

The ps3 has a great line-up just admit it

mattyomo99

Should try reading the post. Or comprehending. I didn't say it was the only game.