PC hardware needs standardization

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nameless12345

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#1 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

In my opinion, PCs need a hardware standard to which the devs will clinge onto.

The problem with today's PCs is that there's too much different hardware configurations out there which makes the optimization job hard for the devs.

I think a fessible solution to this problem would be a kinda hardware standard.

For example there would be a "Level 1 hardware" industry standard, which would be the required configuration to run the games.

Then there would be "Level 2 hardware" which would be the "premium", equaling to "high detail" settings for modern gaming computers.

And finaly the "Level 3 hardware" which would be reserved for the strongest possible machines only.

The devs would then decide for which hardware standard(s) they would develop the games.

The question is who could make these standards but I think MS, Intel, AMD and nvidia could team-up and make something like that.

It would greatly benefit the optimization of PC games.

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Wasdie

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#2 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

Yes, so hardware companies stop actually creating better hardware and conform to standards so we only get new hardware ever 5-6 years.

Sounds great.

Hardware companies teaming up = no competition = no improvements. It's bad thing. A bad bad thing.

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nameless12345

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#3 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Yes, so hardware companies stop actually creating better hardware and conform to standards so we only get new hardware ever 5-6 years.

Sounds great.

Hardware companies teaming up = no competition = no improvements. It's bad thing. A bad bad thing.

Wasdie

Those standards could change with time. For example the required "Level 1 hardware" standard could change in 4 to 5 years, but the "Level 2" and especially the "Level 3" standard could change much more regularly.

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lundy86_4

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#4 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 61991 Posts

Having standard "levels" of hardware, is just going to help stagnate the need to produce faster and more efficient hardware.

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lowe0

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#5 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts
It's already standard - there are basically 2 CPUs and 2 GPUs to choose from. The problem isn't tiering hardware; it's that each year the hardware standard is replaced with a new one on the GPU side, giving you twice as many hardware targets to test, twice as many regression bugs, and so on. Ostensibly, hardware abstraction should since this problem, but as long as the latest game runs on their current offerings, driver developers don't really seem to care about regression.
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AdrianWerner

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#6 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts

Terrible idea. Crippling two of the biggest advantages of PC gaming: freedom and rapid tech advancement driven by competition between companies.

And all that for what? Most new PCs can run pretty much any game you throw at them.

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lawlessx

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#7 lawlessx
Member since 2004 • 48753 Posts
didn't you already have an "i want PC's to be more like consoles" thread afew months back nameless?
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nameless12345

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#8 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

For example a few years back 3dfx Glide was the standard and the games could make great usage of the then prevalent 3dfx Voodoo 3D accelerators. Of course that ment that the competitors (like ATi, nvidia and Matrox) suffered, but the Voodoo owners had a great time.

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Fizzman

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#9 Fizzman
Member since 2003 • 9895 Posts

No thanks.

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nameless12345

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#10 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Terrible idea. Crippling two of the biggest advantages of PC gaming: freedom and rapid tech advancement driven by competition between companies.

And all that for what? Most new PCs can run pretty much any game you throw at them.

AdrianWerner

But the hardware would me much better used if there were these standards. It would mean the devs wouldn't need to develop for a million of different hardware configurations and people would know what exactly they should buy (unlike today when the PC hardware market is pretty loose).

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Pelon208

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#11 Pelon208
Member since 2005 • 3375 Posts

Yes, so hardware companies stop actually creating better hardware and conform to standards so we only get new hardware ever 5-6 years.

Sounds great.

Hardware companies teaming up = no competition = no improvements. It's bad thing. A bad bad thing.

Wasdie

I knew you were going to be in the first 5 posts lol

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SW__Troll

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#12 SW__Troll
Member since 2011 • 1687 Posts
I'll get a console if I want that, thanks
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Deniable_Ops

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#13 Deniable_Ops
Member since 2011 • 198 Posts
I'll get a console if I want that, thanksSW__Troll
*looks at user name*... *looks at post count and level* Sigh...
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Am_Confucius

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#14 Am_Confucius
Member since 2011 • 3229 Posts

God no.

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ShadowDeathX

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#15 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11699 Posts
I agree with similar language standards and similar methods of memory working and being accessed. But we already have that. We already have a standard API, OpenGL or the Microsoft alternative, Direct3D. Too much standards just hinder the experience. A consumer friendly chart on explaining how powerful their specific parts would be nice though.
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Firebird-5

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#16 Firebird-5
Member since 2007 • 2848 Posts

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

Terrible idea. Crippling two of the biggest advantages of PC gaming: freedom and rapid tech advancement driven by competition between companies.

And all that for what? Most new PCs can run pretty much any game you throw at them.

nameless12345

But the hardware would me much better used if there were these standards. It would mean the devs wouldn't need to develop for a million of different hardware configurations and people would know what exactly they should buy (unlike today when the PC hardware market is pretty loose).

why not just get a console then
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lostrib

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#17 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts
They already have this. It's called minimum and recommended requirements
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Doom_HellKnight

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#18 Doom_HellKnight
Member since 2005 • 12217 Posts
No thanks.
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BPoole96

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#19 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts
There already is standardization. They range from low spec to high spec
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NoodleFighter

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#20 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 11896 Posts

Intel tried to do that with Larabee.

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JigglyWiggly_

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#21 JigglyWiggly_
Member since 2009 • 24625 Posts
noty
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KoRneYEZ

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#22 KoRneYEZ
Member since 2011 • 46 Posts
Also it's not as if they have to work with every single gpu. There are drivers for whole lines of them.
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#23 EvanTheGamer
Member since 2009 • 1550 Posts
Ignore what the troll/mod said, the topic is true. PC needs standards so it can be finally taken seriously and become a good gaming platform. No one likes upgrading every month followed by hours of bug patching.
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#24 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 11896 Posts

Ignore what the troll/mod said, the topic is true. PC needs standards so it can be finally taken seriously and become a good gaming platform. No one likes upgrading every month followed by hours of bug patching.EvanTheGamer

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#25 Kinthalis
Member since 2002 • 5503 Posts

Nom PC does not need "standardized hardware".

What we do need is better, more rigid, more complete and more consistent support for exsting abstraction API's.

The devs already know the type fo hardware out ther ein the wild, and they already break down the PC into: 2d/casual only, low end Pc (with discreet graphics), mid-range Pc and high end PC.

The issues in optimization arise from Nvidia's and AMD's poor quality control and poor implementaiton of their drivers in regards to DX and OpenGL.

Did you know that there are STILL parts of DX 11 not supported by their drivers? And many that are poorly supported?

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PC_Otter

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#26 PC_Otter
Member since 2010 • 1623 Posts

There already is alot of standardization. It's company specific parts and motherboard sockets that are not standard (or at least to the level they need to be). You have standards such as PCI-E and PCI expansion slots, cabling types, desktop motherboard layouts, and of course all the software standarization when using Windows such as Direct X. This crosses into the notebook space too.

PCs are pretty well standardized. Apple Computers are a pretty good example of taking such standards and building software that completely revolves around a specific hardware specification, though that pushes the cost of the total package because you're also paying a software premium.

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lundy86_4

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#27 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 61991 Posts

Ignore what the troll/mod said, the topic is true. PC needs standards so it can be finally taken seriously and become a good gaming platform. No one likes upgrading every month followed by hours of bug patching.EvanTheGamer

Nobody likes lying, which explains why nobody likes... Annnnnyway :D

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#28 osan0
Member since 2004 • 18239 Posts
thats would be a massive step backwards. the PC hardware market would be like the console hardware market. not good. devs dont need to develop for every single piece of hardware. they just need to test as much as possible. we already have standards like DX, openGL and so on that allows devs to make games that are fairly hardware agnostic. what does need to happen in the next few years though is reducing the overhead of using the APIs as much as possible. this could possibly include bypassing DX/openGL and developing specifically for AMD and nvidia drivers for example. before this wouldnt make sense but now engines are inherently multiplat. so it would be like just adding 2 new platforms (geforce and radeon) to the engine. well in theory anyway :P. note: i say drivers as working at the driver level could still make the game hardware agnostic-ish. developing for catalyst would cover all supported radeon cards and so on. but locking it down like a console? a really really bad idea. just get a console.
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Moriarity_

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#29 Moriarity_
Member since 2011 • 1332 Posts
I thought the whole point of gaming on pc was the freedom to use whatever parts you want to make your rig as expensive or cheap as you want?
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nameless12345

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#30 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

but locking it down like a console? a really really bad idea. just get a console.osan0

I didn't mean that. I just ment that there could be suggested hardware specs around which the games could be designed. That would reduce a lot of work that testing requires and could get great results of the suggested hardware.

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razgriz_101

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#31 razgriz_101
Member since 2007 • 16875 Posts

Wouldnt that be like consoles? :P

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#32 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
But then all games will work only on the most expensive computers out there and gaming companies will lose a lot of customers.
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kuraimen

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#33 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

Wouldnt that be like consoles? :P

razgriz_101
Yeah pretty much, just make a console then :P
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#34 Jebus213
Member since 2010 • 10056 Posts

In my opinion, PCs need a hardware standard to which the devs will clinge onto.

The problem with today's PCs is that there's too much different hardware configurations out there which makes the optimization job hard for the devs.

I think a fessible solution to this problem would be a kinda hardware standard.

For example there would be a "Level 1 hardware" industry standard, which would be the required configuration to run the games.

Then there would be "Level 2 hardware" which would be the "premium", equaling to "high detail" settings for modern gaming computers.

And finaly the "Level 3 hardware" which would be reserved for the strongest possible machines only.

The devs would then decide for which hardware standard(s) they would develop the games.

The question is who could make these standards but I think MS, Intel, AMD and nvidia could team-up and make something like that.

It would greatly benefit the optimization of PC games.

nameless12345

So let me guess, you picked up all this drivel from Kotaku right?

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#35 Aaron89
Member since 2003 • 3377 Posts

I'm a console gamer and I oppose of this idea ... for reasons already mentioned.

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Jebus213

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#36 Jebus213
Member since 2010 • 10056 Posts

Ignore what the troll/mod said, the topic is true. PC needs standards so it can be finally taken seriously and become a good gaming platform. No one likes upgrading every month followed by hours of bug patching.EvanTheGamer

LOL? and your sig. Gosh why so ignorant.

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KalDurenik

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#37 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts
Nameless there was a time when your troll topics was somewhat fun to read but it looks like you are just starting to repeat yourself and you dont put as much effort into the trolling as you used to. =(
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#38 osan0
Member since 2004 • 18239 Posts

[QUOTE="osan0"]but locking it down like a console? a really really bad idea. just get a console.nameless12345

I didn't mean that. I just ment that there could be suggested hardware specs around which the games could be designed. That would reduce a lot of work that testing requires and could get great results of the suggested hardware.

this is a console solution to a PC problem. its not a fix. when a dev works on a console they know the hardware and they design the game within the limits of that hardware. thats how console development basically works. PC development is different. devs are perfectly free to set the bottom and top line as they wish. a dev doesnt have to test for every possible PC combination..just the hardware they are going to support. so if they get a radeon 4850 as the minimum then they dont need to test a radeon 2000 series. devs then make whatever they plan to make and the requirements are the requirements. optimization can be very overrated on consoles. what can be seen as optimization on consoles is often a compromise. its a cut to make the game fit. from MLAA (introducing fuzzy pictures compared to MSAA) to dropping the res the game is rendered at...this is the nature of optimizing. sure some PC games are in dreadful shape but this is more due to poor development, planning and implementation rather than any failing on the PC part. we have seen enough examples of the PC version of a multiplat coming out in great shape to know it can be done. GTA4 is a common example of poor optimization on PC compared to consoles. its also a poor example. the PC version is a very different animal under the hood. to run it at console settings took very little grunt. most people that complain about the PC version with regards to performance seem to assume that the console version is the same as the PC version maxed out. but the PC version has better textures, 4X the draw distance, 5X the detail draw distance, more cars and so on at its highest settings. it even has a more advanced shadowing system the console version lacks. is it as optimized as the console version? probably not. it runs poorly on a low end 2000 series radeon and 512MB of ram (i dont think itll even run). but the PC version goes further than the console version. under the hood its not the same game. at the end of the day thats what PC development is about. its not about making something fit into a spec. its seeing how far you can go given your resources. by locking it down as you suggest (and that is what your suggesting) you remove that. your telling devs what they have rather than letting them decide. your removing R* ability to say "screw it...lets have 5X the draw distance" or cryteks ability to say "nuts to it....lets just load 5KM of level in all at once and deal with it" or creative assembles ablility to say "lets have 100,000 soldiers killing each other in our next game". on the PC the dev/publisher suggests the hardware you need, not the hardare manufacturers.
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#39 Plagueless
Member since 2010 • 2569 Posts

In my opinion, PCs need a hardware standard to which the devs will clinge onto.

The problem with today's PCs is that there's too much different hardware configurations out there which makes the optimization job hard for the devs.

I think a fessible solution to this problem would be a kinda hardware standard.

For example there would be a "Level 1 hardware" industry standard, which would be the required configuration to run the games.

Then there would be "Level 2 hardware" which would be the "premium", equaling to "high detail" settings for modern gaming computers.

And finaly the "Level 3 hardware" which would be reserved for the strongest possible machines only.

The devs would then decide for which hardware standard(s) they would develop the games.

The question is who could make these standards but I think MS, Intel,AMD and nvidia could team-up and make something like that.

It would greatly benefit the optimization of PC games.

nameless12345

that would not happen in a million years. They are the biggest rivals in the PC hardware industry.