http://www.edge-online.com/news/moore-the-hard-drive-killed-xbox
good article
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I knew it was coming along time ago :P I give ps3 one more 6 months too and that is dead too.blackdreamhunk
You knew what was coming?
The summary (for the lazy)
The original xbox cost MS too much to make because it had a built-in harddrive. This in turn saw them try and bring out the 360 as soon as possible to try and recouperate the losses they made on the xbox. Moore believes this was a mistake- thinking that the 360 came out too early. (the above is also why the 360 never statrted with a hard drive).
There's some Rare bashing too:
"...I spent a lot of time in the Midlands with Rare, trying to work on stuff that would give us a little bit more balance... So we used Viva Pinata as a broader play into the more casual market to attract younger consumers, female consumers and to take a little bit of the edge off the box.
"I thought ultimately it would be very successful... but we were trying all kinds of classic Rare stuff and unfortunately I think the industry had past Rare by - it's a strong statement but what they were good at, new consumers didn't care about anymore, and it was tough because they were trying very hard... Great people. But their skillsets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market."
You should always pull a quote out with stuff like this. It's hard to discuss something if you just link to an article.
On topic: Moore has been busy lately, eh? At least he's being honest.
This part was interesting:
"… Not having a hard drive in every Xbox 360 was a hard decision, but we wanted to get price under control," the former Xbox and Sega US head commented. "The hard drive in every Xbox killed us; we were still selling it at $199 and the hard drive was like $70. That's why we prematurely left the original Xbox, because the more we were selling – there was still great demand – it was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down.
"So in the end we determined at around the 25 million unit mark that we just needed to slow this thing down and just not sell any more, and move to the 360 as quickly as we possibly could. And to this day people still believe we left the Xbox too early but it was purely for financial purposes."
He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
Peter Moore:
"...I spent a lot of time in the Midlands with Rare, trying to work on stuff that would give us a little bit more balance... So we used Viva Pinata as a broader play into the more casual market to attract younger consumers, female consumersand to take a little bit of the edge off the box.
samusarmada
Bill Gates Also said that Viva was for the Female Demographic. For some reason, people hate that around here. I played Viva too, and I'm male.There's even Mods that NEVER knew that.
He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
Ninja-Hippo
Actually, it was ONLY 8Gigs. You are right, that's expensive.
My Brothers PSP has an 8gig Memory card,lol.
no coming out 2 years later than the ps 2 is what killed the xbox.
lol now no hard driive is killing the 360 because dev's has to make sure there games don't need one even though this gen every one wants a hard drive.
it almost makes the hdd usless in the 360 like the ps 2. the only reason now to have one is for music, movies and demos.
this gen it was a bad to not have a hdd standard.
This part was interesting:
"… Not having a hard drive in every Xbox 360 was a hard decision, but we wanted to get price under control," the former Xbox and Sega US head commented. "The hard drive in every Xbox killed us; we were still selling it at $199 and the hard drive was like $70. That's why we prematurely left the original Xbox, because the more we were selling – there was still great demand – it was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down.
"So in the end we determined at around the 25 million unit mark that we just needed to slow this thing down and just not sell any more, and move to the 360 as quickly as we possibly could. And to this day people still believe we left the Xbox too early but it was purely for financial purposes."
He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
Ninja-Hippo
Now that's very intresting........but I've heard countless times they gave up on the Xbox because they didn't want to spend money on both Xbox and X360 development. then there were those that say MS killed Xbox because there was no way it was going to be hugely successful so in the end MS thought it was best to release first to better compete against Sony. I personally believe MS killed the original xbox prematurely to force xbox owners to upgrade to X360. No more games means they have to get a new console......MS was right in a sense because just about all hardcore Xbox owners went out and bought a X360 in the first 2 years.
I don't know if I buy the "it was just too popular and we were losing too much money". The console was 4 years old......you are telling me the cost was still above $200? Maybe it's just me but $70 for an 8 gig hardrive (even 4 years ago) sounds a little far fetched.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
SolidTy
Actually, it was ONLY 8Gigs. You are right, that's expensive.
My Brothers PSP has an 8gig Memory card,lol.
It was 10gb, 2gb for caching[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
FirstDiscovery
Actually, it was ONLY 8Gigs. You are right, that's expensive.
My Brothers PSP has an 8gig Memory card,lol.
It was 10gb, 2gb for cachingOnly in the First models, from what I read. You were right about NVidia, that's why M$ went ATI this gen. Ironically, Sony went NVidia this gen.
[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
SolidTy
Actually, it was ONLY 8Gigs. You are right, that's expensive.
My Brothers PSP has an 8gig Memory card,lol.
It was 10gb, 2gb for cachingOnly in the First models, from what I read. You were right about NVidia, that's why M$ went ATI this gen. Ironically, Sony went NVidia this gen.
Well MS screwed over nVidia as a result, giving them the DX9 specs late, and as a result, nVidia FX series cards were trash meaning not only were ATis better, but it was then that ATi actually had a greater market share.To me that doesn't make any sense it was too popular and we were just losing money for every box they bought. Though i gotta say MS did a good job of ending the xbox fast unlike its competitors the PS2(which is still going strong) and the gamecube which was still getting support 6 months after launch of the wii, i remember when the 360 first came out and about half the xbox 1 games disapeared. Then every week i went to walmart the selection kept getting smaller and smaller until about 2 months after launch my walmart didn't have any xbox games to speak of.
[QUOTE="SolidTy"]Well MS screwed over nVidia as a result, giving them the DX9 specs late, and as a result, nVidia FX series cards were trash meaning not only were ATis better, but it was then that ATi actually had a greater market share.Only in the First models, from what I read. You were right about NVidia, that's why M$ went ATI this gen. Ironically, Sony went NVidia this gen.
FirstDiscovery
Why the heck did NVidia really think they could get away with that?lol. It will be interesting to see the chips used in the Next Gen.
good article
gillri
LOL he said a 10gigabyte harddrive cost microsoft 70$ BULLCRAP. lmfao!
plus he was right when the harddrive died it killed the xbox no longer useable LOL.
[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]Well MS screwed over nVidia as a result, giving them the DX9 specs late, and as a result, nVidia FX series cards were trash meaning not only were ATis better, but it was then that ATi actually had a greater market share.Only in the First models, from what I read. You were right about NVidia, that's why M$ went ATI this gen. Ironically, Sony went NVidia this gen.
SolidTy
Why the heck did NVidia really think they could get away with that?lol. It will be interesting to see the chips used in the Next Gen.
Well they were both to some extent at fault, nVidia shouldnt have been so stubborn, its the reason why they have lost so much business from the 360, but at the same time, MS shouldve known its a contract they signed knowingly. Either way, going with ATi has helped, thats why we have an awesome GPU on the 360honestly, I thought it was, lack of exclusives, crap controller, geting old ports, low demand, etc that killed the Xbox.xxThyLordxxEhh no, it had plenty of exclusive, a fantastic controller (the duke was OLD news by late 03), superior ports and steady demand in EU and NA.
The XBOX just wasnt a worthy investment anymore, the thing was costing them so much, it was best to just move on
Rare should be critised.he has been busy these past few days
And he criticises RARE
gillri
They really dropped the ball from the N64 era, and went from being one of the greatest devs to a 'decent' one.
Moore is right, especially with PDZ - they were lagging behind.
Its not Rare bashing, its the cold hard truth.
Just because they were a great N64 era dev, does not mean that translates nowadays.... especially in an industry that is always evolving.
Heck I used to be a massive Rare fan in the N64 era... ever since I really havent thought twice of them, though the new Banjo is sparking my interest.
[QUOTE="gillri"]Rare should be critised.he has been busy these past few days
And he criticises RARE
skrat_01
They really dropped the ball from the N64 era, and went from being one of the greatest devs to a 'decent' one.
Moore is right, especially with PDZ - they were lagging behind.
Its not Rare bashing, its the cold hard truth.
Just because they were a great N64 era dev, does not mean that translates nowadays.... especially in an industry that is always evolving.
Heck I used to be a massive Rare fan in the N64 era... ever since I really havent thought twice of them, though the new Banjo is sparking my interest.
I feel you.. Rare died to me during the N64 era as well.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/moore-the-hard-drive-killed-xbox
good article
gillri
Well, I understand why the Xbox was discontinued, yet I was more upset that they didn't make the 360 100% B/C. I know it had to do with the nVidia GPU card, but M$ should have worked out a way to have these games work with the 360. At least most of the good games do work with the XBox 360 now, but there are still at least 50-75 great titles that aren't compatible. M$ 720 system better be 100% compatible with the 360.
Why the hell was the harddrive so expensive?
Lets take a little trip to www.newegg.com...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144122
Wait Peter Moore.. did I just own you?
Why the hell was the harddrive so expensive?
Lets take a little trip to www.newegg.com...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144122
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JB 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM =$38.99
Wait Peter Moore.. did I just own you?
Wasdie
Back then they could've been alot more expensive in all fairness.
Still though this whole thing does annoy the hell out of me, sure they may have been alot more expensive back then, but they had no excuse this gen with HDD prices so low (especially 20gig drives) to not make them standard.
Why the hell was the harddrive so expensive?
Lets take a little trip to www.newegg.com...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144122
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JB 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM =$38.99
Wait Peter Moore.. did I just own you?
Wasdie
I'm guessing because it was a custom HDD(similar to the 360 HDD) and the manufactuer's didn't want to bring the cost down. Most of the components in the XB were outsourced.. I believe the same holds true to the 360.. Sony developed/co-developed bluray, the emotion engine, the Cell processor.. so they could control the pricing better.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
SolidTy
Actually, it was ONLY 8Gigs. You are right, that's expensive.
My Brothers PSP has an 8gig Memory card,lol.
But that's what they cost back then i remember paying £120 for a 80gb harddrive about 5-6 years ago i could get a 1000gb one for that much today.Also a 1gb memory stick cost about £350!! cost about a tenner today.
[QUOTE="gillri"]he has been busy these past few days
And he criticises RARE
Ninja-Hippo
He hardly criticised rare. :?
He doesn't criticise rare at all. Read the actual quote
"And it was tough because they were trying very hard--Chris and Tim Stamper were still there--to try and re-create the glory years of Rare, which is the reason Microsoft paid a lot of money for them and I spent a lot of time getting on a train to Twycross to meet them. Great people. But their skill sets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market."
He's commenting on the stamper bros (who havent done anything for a long time apparently, gregg, obviously, heads rare)
Why the hell was the harddrive so expensive?
Lets take a little trip to www.newegg.com...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144122
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JB 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM =$38.99
Wait Peter Moore.. did I just own you?
Wasdie
Why dont you dig up what they cost back then? I dont think you owned anyone but yourself.
This part was interesting:
"… Not having a hard drive in every Xbox 360 was a hard decision, but we wanted to get price under control," the former Xbox and Sega US head commented. "The hard drive in every Xbox killed us; we were still selling it at $199 and the hard drive was like $70. That's why we prematurely left the original Xbox, because the more we were selling – there was still great demand – it was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down.
"So in the end we determined at around the 25 million unit mark that we just needed to slow this thing down and just not sell any more, and move to the 360 as quickly as we possibly could. And to this day people still believe we left the Xbox too early but it was purely for financial purposes."
He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
Ninja-Hippo
That's what I was thinking man. 70 bucks for 10 GB? No way... or well, maybe in 2004? Who knows, but that's pretty crazy.
The fact it is over sized and ugly killed the Xbox, that and I doubt anything could have stopped the successor to the name the first Playstation had made. I find it very hard to believe that MS were paying that much for the HDD inside the first Xbox after it had been in production a while, it wasn't even anything special it is a standard HDD (you can replace it with a lot of other hard drives 8)).
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]Why the hell was the harddrive so expensive?
Lets take a little trip to www.newegg.com...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144122
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JB 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM =$38.99
Wait Peter Moore.. did I just own you?
OhSnapitz
I'm guessing because it was a custom HDD(similar to the 360 HDD) and the manufactuer's didn't want to bring the cost down. Most of the components in the XB were outsourced.. I believe the same holds true to the 360.. Sony developed/co-developed bluray, the emotion engine, the Cell processor.. so they could control the pricing better.
It was a fairly standard HDD(had a special power connector). It's a supply and demand issue. As HDD's get bigger the sizes available get larger. Once upon a time you'd find HDD's between 40-80 gig on sale. Then it moved from 80-160, then 160-300, etc. etc. It doesn't cost more to produce bigger drives, and the price can only drop so low(ie at some point you're not even paying for the capcity merely the materials and cost of production). Older HDD's weren't produced in large enough quantities for demand, so you end up paying roughly the same price for the low end drives available. Towards the end there were xbox's with 20 gig HDD's formated to 8 gig because they simply couldn't get 20 gig HDD's anymore.Anyway, back to my original point. MS owns the IP to all the major components in the 360 this time around, something they specifically addressed due to getting raped by Nvidia last gen. This gen MS can control production costs just like sony.
He's not saying they would have beat the PS2, he's talking about killing the Xbox so quickly. Had production costs been managable you'd have seen extended xbox support even after the 360 came out.The fact it is over sized and ugly killed the Xbox, that and I doubt anything could have stopped the successor to the name the first Playstation had made. I find it very hard to believe that MS were paying that much for the HDD inside the first Xbox after it had been in production a while, it wasn't even anything special it is a standard HDD (you can replace it with a lot of other hard drives 8)).
SapSacPrime
8 gig HDD's were antiquidated by 2004, having them made specifically for the xbox probably would have been more expensive than simply using the smallest capacity of drive available at the time and formatting it to 8 gigs(which is exactly what they did), but that still leaves you with being forced to always pay the low end price(ie about 70 bucks) and getting larger capacity over time which the original xbox couldn't take advantage of. This is why you see Sony constantly upping the HDD space their SKU's available.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]This part was interesting:
"… Not having a hard drive in every Xbox 360 was a hard decision, but we wanted to get price under control," the former Xbox and Sega US head commented. "The hard drive in every Xbox killed us; we were still selling it at $199 and the hard drive was like $70. That's why we prematurely left the original Xbox, because the more we were selling – there was still great demand – it was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down.
"So in the end we determined at around the 25 million unit mark that we just needed to slow this thing down and just not sell any more, and move to the 360 as quickly as we possibly could. And to this day people still believe we left the Xbox too early but it was purely for financial purposes."
He seems to be saying that they left the original xbox purely because they were losing so much money on it. I dont see how they could possibly be spending $70 on a 10gig hard drive though.
darthogre
Now that's very intresting........but I've heard countless times they gave up on the Xbox because they didn't want to spend money on both Xbox and X360 development. then there were those that say MS killed Xbox because there was no way it was going to be hugely successful so in the end MS thought it was best to release first to better compete against Sony. I personally believe MS killed the original xbox prematurely to force xbox owners to upgrade to X360. No more games means they have to get a new console......MS was right in a sense because just about all hardcore Xbox owners went out and bought a X360 in the first 2 years. It's funny, EXACTLY what Moore said is what has been pointed out in pretty much all of the 10,000 theads cows have made the statement "MS will kill the 360 early because they killed the Xbox early" argument. The xbox went from conception to release in 19 months(ie MS decided to make it roughly when the PS2 launched in Japan and came out 12 months after the PS2 launched in the US...that's about half the time it normally takes). They had to use nearly all off the shelf parts in the machine, and therefore were at the mercy of the makers of the pieces to pay whatever they decided to charge. The gpu in the Xbox cost them about as much in 2004 as it did in 2001 even though it cost Nividia a fraction of what it originally did to produce it. ATI and IBM's willingness to sell MS the intellectual property of the CPU and GPU designs is what prompted them to go with those companies.
I don't know if I buy the "it was just too popular and we were losing too much money". The console was 4 years old......you are telling me the cost was still above $200? Maybe it's just me but $70 for an 8 gig hardrive (even 4 years ago) sounds a little far fetched. That's NOT what he said. MS had to either charge more than the PS2 to not lose money on the hardware, or sell the machine at a loss for the entire gen. The retail price had to keep dropping and the cost to manufacture it didn't. The more they sold the more money they lost.
thats not true a hard drive was a step upnaruto7777Well only for us gamers because it allows us to look past the purchased of a memory card which wasn't even needed with the huge hard drive, but if you read the article Peter mentions how they were losing money on each Xbox purchase due to the cost of hard drive back then, thus forcing them to abandoned the Xbox so quickly. As an end result Xbox owner were left high and dry while PS2 owner still had the games coming their way. Yes it help made games load time alot faster and it threw out the requirement of a memory card, but it cut the Xbox lifespan by at least a year or even more so yeah it's pretty much true.
The summary (for the lazy)
The original xbox cost MS too much to make because it had a built-in harddrive. This in turn saw them try and bring out the 360 as soon as possible to try and recouperate the losses they made on the xbox. Moore believes this was a mistake- thinking that the 360 came out too early. (the above is also why the 360 never statrted with a hard drive).
There's some Rare bashing too:
"...I spent a lot of time in the Midlands with Rare, trying to work on stuff that would give us a little bit more balance... So we used Viva Pinata as a broader play into the more casual market to attract younger consumers, female consumers and to take a little bit of the edge off the box.
"I thought ultimately it would be very successful... but we were trying all kinds of classic Rare stuff and unfortunately I think the industry had past Rare by - it's a strong statement but what they were good at, new consumers didn't care about anymore, and it was tough because they were trying very hard... Great people. But their skillsets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market."
samusarmada
no where in the article snippet provided does he say the 360 was brought out too early now it might be so in the main article thats from but i've not read that, but the snippet in that link mentions nothing like you said about him saying they brought it out too early, what is said is the reason they dropped the xbox fast, and the 360 out sooner.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment