Pirates are not killing Gaming. Gaming is.

I've been seeing a lot of threads on this lately, and I thought I would just toss in my two cents on the topic.

To me, it doesn't seem like pirating has anything to do with lower sales of recent games, especially PC games. While I'm sure we can all agree that pirates are a problem, are they really as much of a problem as the industry makes them out to be? Not at all. Good games still continue to sell extremely well, and bad games rightfully sell poorly, it has nothing to do with pirating. With all of the DRM that big companies like EA toss on their products, they're actually making it much easier to just pirate since the real customer is the only one being screwed over by these things.

Take Spore for example, you could only install that on so many computers, but for a pirate who just cracked their copy they could use it as much as they wanted and at no price. If anything, these kinds of actions are promoting piracy.

When developers toss out these games that feel generic, incomplete, and lacking of any actual quality, what do they expect to happen? If your average person is pirating these games, why on earth would they have bought it if the option wasn't there to pirate? Even though I don't pirate myself, I know when games like this come out I just completely avoid them all together. Either way the developer isn't getting any money.

The sad truth though, is that developers are getting money for these games. Everytime someone goes out and purchases one of the vast majority of overhyped garbage titles (Too Human, for example) they make the developers think that these kinds of games are something most gamers actually enjoy, so they make more of it.

While gaming isn't dying, and probably won't be even close to declining anytime in the next 20 years, it's people who buy these generic, pathetic excuses for an actual game that are really hurting the future of gaming, not the pirates.

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

Gaming is cannibalizing itself? You've blown mind, dude. And I haven't even had my acid hit today.

Just Kidding.

But yeah, you do make legitimate points, but look at all entertainment industries, it's not like we didn't know this was going to happen to games too.

Well, if you're going to look at it that way, why pirate a game in the first place? No not because it's free, but because it interests them somehow. What's the point in pirating a game that don't hold any interest?

Pirates are the problem...

i quite like spore. i just hope maxis properly support it with good expansions that really take advantage of the technology underneath it all (the cute and scary exmapnsion is not the direction the game needs to go...but i hear theres another expansion due next year thatll further develop the space stage. more of that please maxis).

a few content expansions in the right place and the game could be truly amazing. at the mo its just good imho. great technology but the gaming content is lacking.

anywho thats beside the point. althoug hthere is absolutely no excuse for pirating, i agree that DRM in games like spore is broken. it benefits nobody. spore was on dinternet a week before its official release. even now the DRM serves absolutely no purpose. why EA dont just scrap it with a patch is beyond me. at least give ure customers the same freedoms the pirates are getting.

its also broken in that the pirates actually get a better expeirence. no DRM, no limits on installs and no dodgy software installing itself in the background. the customer would actually be better off going to a torrent, downloading it and then going to the shops to buy it and using the pirated version. theres just something very very wrong about that.

as for the quality of titles....well thats all subjective in the end. what may be considered garbage here isnt necessarily garbage to the person buying it (which at the end of the day is the most important thing). someone migh buy too human and thouroughly enjoy it. someone might buy GTA4 and think its the biggest load of porpse hoark made in the history of gaming.

when it comes to game quality...theres only one universal truth..and thats that deus ex 1 is the best game ever made...ever. if u disagree with that then, well ure entiteled to ure opinion. ure wrong but u can have ure opinion :P.j/k

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

kingsfan_0333

Gaming isnt dying....its growing IMO...but I agree with this guy.

[QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

IIJuggaNottII

Gaming isnt dying....its growing IMO...but I agree with this guy.

No there isn't, its still wrong.

But, if someone isn't going to buy it if pirating was not an option, can a company cry lost profits?

[QUOTE="IIJuggaNottII"][QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

redstormrisen

Gaming isnt dying....its growing IMO...but I agree with this guy.

No there isn't, its still wrong.

But, if someone isn't going to buy it if pirating was not an option, can a company cry lost profits?

No, the dev wouldn't have a scapegoat to fall back on and blame for poor sales. They'd actually have to take responsibility for making either a bad game or a generic cookie-cutter offering and actually sink some resources into innovation

BTW, in case it's not already apparent, I do agree with the TC (and I also am against pirating software).

Gaming is cannibalizing itself? You've blown mind, dude. And I haven't even had my acid hit today.

Just Kidding.

But yeah, you do make legitimate points, but look at all entertainment industries, it's not like we didn't know this was going to happen to games too.

Noldorin2646

Thats very true....

[QUOTE="redstormrisen"][QUOTE="IIJuggaNottII"][QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

svetzenlether

Gaming isnt dying....its growing IMO...but I agree with this guy.

No there isn't, its still wrong.

But, if someone isn't going to buy it if pirating was not an option, can a company cry lost profits?

No, the dev wouldn't have a scapegoat to fall back on and blame for poor sales. They'd actually have to take responsibility for making either a bad game or a generic cookie-cutter offering and actually sink some resources into innovation

BTW, in case it's not already apparent, I do agree with the TC (and I also am against pirating software).

I agree with that somewhat too. As long as you have a guy pirating software it destorts the numbers so it would be no way to tell what the actual numbers are. You have one case where guys just flat out STEAL the music off an online site, THEN theres the guy that actually bought the CD and burned it for 10 of his friends.

Sales will be sales, thats why I really dont pay much attention to it. Good games will sale regardless. I dont believe it was a widespread piracy for King Kong or other lack luster games.

Gaming is more popular than it's ever been. I don't know where you guys get all of this stuff.

There are 3 major console manufacturers, 2 successful handheld systems and various download services.

There is the PC that has been around forever with all of it various gaming platforms like Steam.

Gaming isn't going anywhere.There has never in the history of the industry been so much content available from so many different sources.

It's an amazing time to be a gamer, and it sucks that so many people don't even appreciate it.

imo pirating doesnt really effect sales because people who pirate the game never planned on buying it in the first place.VendettaRed07

If they wanted to play the game and they DIDNT have the means to pirate the game, you believe that they would just play NOTHING? I believe the opposite....they want to play the game so bad that they are willing to steal it, they just do it over and over again because they can. You cant say if it would be a purchase or not...I dont agree with it.

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

Leejjohno

I don't know about every pirate, but almost every single one of my friends who pirate use it as a way to test out games before purchasing them. If they like it, they go out and buy the game to support the developer, if they didn't, they don't do anything. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but all pirates aren't these people with absolutely no morals like a lot of people would like you to believe.

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

LittleHands134

I don't know about every pirate, but almost every single one of my friends who pirate use it as a way to test out games before purchasing them. If they like it, they go out and buy the game to support the developer, if they didn't, they don't do anything. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but all pirates aren't these people with absolutely no morals like a lot of people would like you to believe.

I have a friend who doesn't buy games, he just copies them and thinks about buying games for online play, but usually not. All of his 360 games for example are copies. He also distributes some of these to his other friends free of charge.

imo pirating doesnt really effect sales because people who pirate the game never planned on buying it in the first place.VendettaRed07

^^ This

[QUOTE="LittleHands134"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

Leejjohno

I don't know about every pirate, but almost every single one of my friends who pirate use it as a way to test out games before purchasing them. If they like it, they go out and buy the game to support the developer, if they didn't, they don't do anything. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but all pirates aren't these people with absolutely no morals like a lot of people would like you to believe.

I have a friend who doesn't buy games, he just copies them and thinks about buying games for online play, but usually not. All of his 360 games for example are copies. He also distributes some of these to his other friends free of charge.

What he is doing is completely wrong, I also think what I mentioned earlier is wrong, but to a lesser extent. Not to mention flashing an xbox 360 is not a quick thing like downloading a game. A flashed 360 is easily detectable whenever you go online and it almost always results in a ban. So it's not like your friend could just burn a copy and then toss it out to everyone who has a 360.

To be honest with you though, I think it's more harmful to the industry and to the quality of future products to purchase just plain bad games because the hype made it look good, for the reasons I've mentioned before. Even more harmful than pirating would be.

Too Human wasn't a bad title.

It wasn't for everyone, i agree. Neither is Diablo.

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

Leejjohno

Lets not drop to Dubya's IQ levels....

Equalising copyright infrigment to theft is same as equalising speeding to rape....

Pirating hurts dont matter how you try to suger coat it. They still lose Millions because of piracy.wooooode

Thats only in the western rich world....which strangely isnt the whole globe...Anyway the hardware industry earns huge amounts of money due to piracy...

[QUOTE="VendettaRed07"]imo pirating doesnt really effect sales because people who pirate the game never planned on buying it in the first place.IIJuggaNottII

If they wanted to play the game and they DIDNT have the means to pirate the game, you believe that they would just play NOTHING? I believe the opposite....they want to play the game so bad that they are willing to steal it, they just do it over and over again because they can. You cant say if it would be a purchase or not...I dont agree with it.

i think how blown out of proportion pirating is though, like am i going to pay money for M.C. hammers the funky headhunter? no, ill download it and laugh, but not pay for it. People downloaded crysis ect. mostly because they wanted it, werent sure if it would be a good game would just be all graphics, and wanted to see if they could run it, but people who pirate most likely still buy games, and the ones who dont arent a huge number of people

[QUOTE="VendettaRed07"]imo pirating doesnt really effect sales because people who pirate the game never planned on buying it in the first place.Ringx55

^^ This

Why do people always assume this? That if someone pirates a game, it's always a game that they wouldn't have boughten anyways. If people have easy access to pirated games, they likely aren't going to be buying games, even if they are ones that they would have boughten had piracy not been so accessible. It's not like they say to themselves "I would normally buy this game, so I'm not going to pirate it and I'll buy it instead". Instead, they will pirate the buy-able games as well.

Like I said earlier..people can go ahead and make excuses until they are blue in the face. Still wrong and still going to have an effect.

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

True_Gamer_

Lets not drop to Dubya's IQ levels....

Equalising copyright infrigment to theft is same as equalising speeding to rape....

What? That simile is all wrong. How is CR infringement not theft? You are taking something that you did not rightfully buy. Don't throw our President's name in there in a deragatory fashion in an attempt to skirt the issue.

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

Okay, so lets put it like this: You aren't sure about this movie that's on in the cinemas, so you sneak in and watch it for free, whether you preview and buy a dvd later or whatever, you are stealing by viewing content that you shouldn't be able too. Pirating software cannot be justified.

What's all this BS about pirates buying good games and copying bad ones? Do seriously think that the majority of pirates do that?

AdmiralDan

Lets not drop to Dubya's IQ levels....

Equalising copyright infrigment to theft is same as equalising speeding to rape....

What? That simile is all wrong. How is CR infringement not theft? You are taking something that you did not rightfully buy. Don't throw our President's name in there in a deragatory fashion in an attempt to skirt the issue.

Theft is appropriation of property belonging to another, WITH INTENTION TO PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE that property from another.

I dont see any permament deprivation...

As for our dear Georgie:

Gaming is killing gaming huh? :lol:

Anyway, you make a few valid points... but piracy is wrong regardless. I hate the fact you can only install some games a set number of times, that's bull... but if pirates werent around then we probably wouldnt even have that.

Gaming is killing gaming huh? :lol:

Anyway, you make a few valid points... but piracy is wrong regardless. I hate the fact you can only install some games a set number of times, that's bull... but if pirates werent around then we probably wouldnt even have that.

carljohnson3456

We wouldnt even have the hardware industry in the booming state that it is neither...

i think pirates r ruining it. i know DRM is also.... i was going to buy spore but found out that EA will pritty much find out what ur doing 24/7..iam2green

Sorry but I believe when quality is put into any product it'll sell more than be stolen, I know plenty of "pirates" thatll buy the CD if the artist made a full CD worth of quality music, I got no remorse for people who make a half-assed product to get some extra doe with 2 or 3 singles, same goes for games and movies, you think I'm spending $10 to see a 5.5 rating imdb movie? nooo sir, I personally dont download games but I do music and movies and I could careless what the artist thinks hes entitled to if he made junk, but I'll support any artist who makes a good product. I really think this piracy stuff is a load of crap more than it actually is.

Hordes and hordes of PC games still selling 1+ million copies. Same goes for console titles.

Pirates, while there are some, are very overestimated in terms of numbers. Many many more people go out and buy QUALITY products than don't (money making useless games need not apply). Hence the high sales #'s. Hell, the niche RPG The Witcher has sold over 1 million copies and the development costs on that (like with all PC games) was incredibly low.

It's funny listening to people try and make excuses for something that can't possibly have an excuse. I don't know what world you people live in, but from what I've learned: nothing is free just because you didn't like it. The problem is that the pirate supporters seem to think that this is some kind of law or rule....that if a game's quality (which they likely have not even played before) doesn't meet their standards than it becomes free.

Personally, I would love to be able to walk into an electronics store and say to the salesman: "I really don't think that this 50" tv meets my quality standards...so pack it up in my car and I'll take it home for free". It sounds rediculous, but this is the same reasoning that is applied to pirating, only if I were to walk into a store and demand a free tv I wouldn't be hiding behind a computer and making excuses for my immoral acts.

The world is run by people doing work for money. If you don't like the products of their work, than you are always more than welcome to find products that do fit your standards somewhere else. But in no situation do these products that don't fit your standards become free...yet that is what people are trying to justify.

It's funny listening to people try and make excuses for something that can't possibly have an excuse. I don't know what world you people live in, but from what I've learned: nothing is free just because you didn't like it. The problem is that the pirate supporters seem to think that this is some kind of law or rule....that if a game's quality (which they likely have not even played before) doesn't meet their standards than it becomes free.

Personally, I would love to be able to walk into an electronics store and say to the salesman: "I really don't think that this 50" tv meets my quality standards...so pack it up in my car and I'll take it home for free". It sounds rediculous, but this is the same reasoning that is applied to pirating, only if I were to walk into a store and demand a free tv I wouldn't be hiding behind a computer and making excuses for my immoral acts.

The world is run by people doing work for money. If you don't like the products of their work, than you are always more than welcome to find products that do fit your standards somewhere else. But in no situation do these products that don't fit your standards become free...yet that is what people are trying to justify.

kingsfan_0333

While I don't like the stance that a lot of publishers are taking on digital content, there is no excuse for piracy, ever. If you want to play something, pay for it. If you don't, there is a whole lot of free content available on the net for you to download. And there are demos for most games, so the BS excuse about "trying a game out" doesn't fly at all. Some people are just cheap and they need excuses to justify their actions.

We need MOAR pirates.

Has anyone ever pirated a game wearing an eyepatch?

Pirates are destroying the PC Game industry and do not give me this crap that they are not . when you pirate anything its illegal .I flat out dispise and have no respect for pirates at all

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

kingsfan_0333

Same can be said for rental and pre-owned games, developers and publishers see no money from that.

[QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

That's one way to look at it.

The other is: why would companies put so much effort into one particular game if it is just going to be largely pirated?

Despite what your post suggests, there is no excuse for pirating games.

tenaka2

Same can be said for rental and pre-owned games, developers and publishers see no money from that.

Thanks to piracy millions and millions of people can play games that they cant afford including me, soo......... Piracy FTW !!

Piracy will never end deal with it.

Personally, I would love to be able to walk into an electronics store and say to the salesman: "I really don't think that this 50" tv meets my quality standards...so pack it up in my car and I'll take it home for free". It sounds rediculous, but this is the same reasoning that is applied to piratingkingsfan_0333