Project Natal Delivers

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kenmid

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#1 kenmid
Member since 2003 • 483 Posts

Spain Confirms That Project Natal Delivers

We've all seen old Project Natal videos showing the primitive E3 09 build of Ricochet that Microsoft keeps showing everywhere until now. Spain got the first look at a newer and improved build of Natal that even though being far from the final version it showed enough improvement to impress the media. Here we gather all the impressions from the Spain media and what they had to say after playing Project Natalhttp://www.gamesthirst.com/2010/04/11/spain-confirms-that-project-natal-delivers/Also520°

Project Natal still has a multi-processor

As you know the Natal Project is the first worldwide sensor that uses a 3D video camera, a depth sensor, a microphone and a multi-processor that runs the software, all from the same apparatus. Unlike the 2-dimensional cameras, "Project Natal" 3D analysis of whole-body movements while introducing the commands, the direction of movement or even the tone of voice. It was funny to tell us that the image we've all seen the sensor will not be the final aspect of marketing , which now are still working on it, and that between now and Christmas many things can change.http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://beegamer.es/2010/04/asistimos-a-la-demostracion-de-project-natal-en-madrid.html

Its funny how everybody talks about lag when natal is brought up. Microsoft has always said the demos that thayhave been showing is from E3 last year is a an old build. We still got 7 months for them to improve in the software. I still think there going to be alitte lag, but not as bad what people on this site (Cows) keep saying.

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SilentlyMad

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#2 SilentlyMad
Member since 2009 • 2093 Posts

I have a feeling Natal is going to be pretty good. Heck they need a separate conference for it at E3.

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Hathesulacon

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#3 Hathesulacon
Member since 2008 • 1374 Posts

It'll be cool

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moistsandwich

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#4 moistsandwich
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts

I remain hopeful, but have doubts.... I'll wait til E3 to make my final judgement. I want to see some core games using this tech in unison with the regular controller.

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kenmid

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#5 kenmid
Member since 2003 • 483 Posts

I remain hopeful, but have doubts.... I'll wait til E3 to make my final judgement. I want to see some core games using this tech in unison with the regular controller.

moistsandwich

I'm very hopeful, but i am tired of that ricochet game that keeping showing, i guess we have to wait 4 E3.

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Chutebox

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#6 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51564 Posts

I have a feeling Natal is going to be pretty good. Heck they need a separate conference for it at E3.

SilentlyMad
Almost 100% sure that was debunked.
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iammason

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#7 iammason
Member since 2004 • 4189 Posts
Anyone who thought MS would release Natal they way we saw it when it was first unveiled was a blind fan boy. Both Move and natal have a lot of time to be polished before this holiday. I just wanna see natal games dammit!!!
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moistsandwich

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#8 moistsandwich
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="SilentlyMad"]

I have a feeling Natal is going to be pretty good. Heck they need a separate conference for it at E3.

Chutebox

Almost 100% sure that was debunked.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't.... I think they said the Natal showing would be the day b4.... but its not a "press" conference... but they do have a big demonstration planned, that I'm sure will be shown on vids on most gaming sites shortly after.

I'd be a happy guy if GS or someone was able to do a Live Stream of it.

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haziqonfire

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#9 haziqonfire
Member since 2005 • 36392 Posts
No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.
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navyguy21

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#10 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17892 Posts
[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.

Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.
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Z-Plankton

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#11 Z-Plankton
Member since 2010 • 25 Posts

I want to see some hardcore games using this gaming system, some like... Fallout 3, GTA IV, Far Cry 2, Batman Arkham Asylum, Resident Evil 5, Splinter Cell: Conviction, and others 8)

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FragTycoon

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#12 FragTycoon
Member since 2008 • 6430 Posts

it had to be done :P

But really, what game types are you, fans of natal, looking to play with the device?

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Chutebox

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#13 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51564 Posts

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="SilentlyMad"]

I have a feeling Natal is going to be pretty good. Heck they need a separate conference for it at E3.

moistsandwich

Almost 100% sure that was debunked.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't.... I think they said the Natal showing would be the day b4.... but its not a "press" conference... but they do have a big demonstration planned, that I'm sure will be shown on vids on most gaming sites shortly after.

I'd be a happy guy if GS or someone was able to do a Live Stream of it.

That's what I meant, it's just a demonstration the day before. I'd be surprised if GS wasn't doing a live stream.
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SecretPolice

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#14 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45516 Posts

it had to be done :P

But really, what game types are you, fans of natal, looking to play with the device?

FragTycoon

The one I think that is certain to go over big is a party game made by Rare - something like a Diddy Kong Racing me hopes and a sorta Wii sports knock off.:D

Other then some party games, I will need to see for myself how other genre work - like shooters for instantce.

We shall see.

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tikki25x

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#15 tikki25x
Member since 2003 • 1546 Posts

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.navyguy21
Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

or in RTSs. maybe to select hotkeys. who knows.

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haziqonfire

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#16 haziqonfire
Member since 2005 • 36392 Posts

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.navyguy21
Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

Well we'll see right?

Just based off of what we've seen I'm guessing it'll only be used for those kind of games. Though it'll be interesting to see if and how it'll be used for more 'core'(hate the word) experiences.

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alextherussian

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#17 alextherussian
Member since 2009 • 2642 Posts
[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.

Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

Following up on this. Imagine a game like Black and White on Natal. Its a near perfect fit. What about expanding Tom Clancy's endwar to the point where its hands plus voice only. There are even much more basic ideas, Heavy Rain type games, opening doors, chests with your hands or even just moving inventory around (on a classic inventory screen). Final point, what about casting spells in game, by tracing out certain shapes, sure you would look like a mental patient but the possibility is there...
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alextherussian

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#18 alextherussian
Member since 2009 • 2642 Posts

Well we'll see right?

Just based off of what we've seen I'm guessing it'll only be used for those kind of games. Though it'll be interesting to see if and how it'll be used for more 'core'(hate the word) experiences.

Haziqonfire

Well thats the kicker right now, Im guessing we will see at E3 whether or not Natal will be just about party games and mini games, or if it will allow for an expansion of "core" games...

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Jynxzor

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#19 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
The only thing I can't see is it becoming a driving force in Core games. Unless they can show me otherwise I doubt it will be subtle and accurate enough to be placed into a game without being. 1- Horrendous for extended periods of play: Unfortunately many gamers tend to have extended play sessions and having a game with tiring or hard to hold positions would only exacerbate fatigue and shorten play periods. 2-unresponsive: Core gaming requires a lot of precision and timing, will NATAL be able to keep up with core gamers demands for pinpoint accuracy? and how forgiving will it be with other commands? if it's too forgiving core gamers will hate it, if it's too demanding casuals will never be able to get into it. Best bet is they will lean towards a more forgiving system. Unlike with controllers the divide between casual and hardcore gamers in terms of being able to utilize the controller and how much "Skill" actually plays into the control scheme. Chances are it will lean far too heavilly on being accesable and core gamers will have a hard time differentiating themelves from others on "motion only" or the motions will prove to be far too unweilding compared to pressing a button. 3- Play area: While it has been noted a small play area would be needed to use NATAL it still pooses an issue with some people who may not have that much room, also how will the camera work with rooms with a large ammount of vibrant colours? Such tracking tech has had issues with less than bland scenery I don't want to move my table/couch/chairs/computers ext just so the camera can read me well. 4-Ease of use: When thinking of a core game, and what NATAL can offer us the big question for alot of gamers is: Why would we even need to do that? Lets say an FPS instead of precise controls you have to rely on your own body to provide the feedback, unfortunatly not every human being can extend there arms and aim like a pro this way. People with: Back problems, nervous twitches, tremmors, or for other reasons would be unable to aim this way would be left out. The only solution is to use NATAL as a supliment to gameplay and give people the option to use it...but then it defeats itself as it would never be competitive against classic controlers. 5-Implementation: Where I can see Natal and Move both respectivley hitting walls is implementing this tech without alienating there current fan base. Not only are consumers required to purchase these new items, the user base is allready extremley comfortable with the current controlers Core or Casual alike everyone on PS3 360 up until now has been using a controler. To fully make sure NATAL lives up to it's hype it will need to be exclusive control scheme for some games, or it runs the risk of being a extra "Toy" you can play with if the urge arrises. Without the necicity of actually needing to use NATAL I can't see it being more than a expensive R&D project for MS because it will lack the precision of controlers and without the need to use it, I doubt many will continue to use it past the novelty stage. Those are my issues with NATAL "and MOVE to an extent" is that it just feels it's far too late into the systems lifecycle to try and implement something like this, I expect it to sell millions of units and for everyone to "OooH and Ahhh!" over the sales numbers...and then it will dissapear, with the odd game coming out "WITH NATAL SUPPORT!" Look at the Wii balance board, sure there are what....10 games maybe that use it? and like 2 that use it well, and only 1 that actually requires it for gameplay. Do you want to know why? It's a novelty item that adds one more "Thing" developers needs to cater too when creating games and one more "Thing" people need to get for there system just to play. The solution is always "Lets make it and option for those that have it" Because developers don't want to litteraly chop the potential consumer base by 1/2, the same will happen with NATAL and MOVE...they will both just be there. Feel free to prove me wrong, even the massive sucess of the Wii fit board has shown that it is generally a one trick pony that rots after the initial use dies down and people would rather play with the controler than have a more "Immersive" experience, this type of immersion seems far too bulky and clunky to be worth it. The only visual interface I can see taking off is perhaps next gen if Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony take off with a fully interactive hands free display the tech for something like that just is not plain feesable yet.
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tikki25x

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#20 tikki25x
Member since 2003 • 1546 Posts

[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.alextherussian
Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

Following up on this. Imagine a game like Black and White on Natal. Its a near perfect fit. What about expanding Tom Clancy's endwar to the point where its hands plus voice only. There are even much more basic ideas, Heavy Rain type games, opening doors, chests with your hands or even just moving inventory around (on a classic inventory screen). Final point, what about casting spells in game, by tracing out certain shapes, sure you would look like a mental patient but the possibility is there...

not to mention games that use Natal and the controller together. theres a ton of possibilities, but we really wont know until E3

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kenmid

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#21 kenmid
Member since 2003 • 483 Posts

[QUOTE="alextherussian"][QUOTE="navyguy21"] Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.tikki25x

Following up on this. Imagine a game like Black and White on Natal. Its a near perfect fit. What about expanding Tom Clancy's endwar to the point where its hands plus voice only. There are even much more basic ideas, Heavy Rain type games, opening doors, chests with your hands or even just moving inventory around (on a classic inventory screen). Final point, what about casting spells in game, by tracing out certain shapes, sure you would look like a mental patient but the possibility is there...

not to mention games that use Natal and the controller together. theres a ton of possibilities, but we really wont know until E3

Yea, I hope they used this into a lot of there games, I think possibilities are endless.
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TheXFiles88

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#22 TheXFiles88
Member since 2008 • 1040 Posts
[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.

Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

Exactly. Some of the posters on here are so narrow minded. You guys have to listen to these TOP 7 Japanese developers of their visions for Natal. Their creativities are broader then the most of the posters here: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/25/tgs-2009-japanese-developers-love-on-project-natal/
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donalbane

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#23 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts
[QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

it had to be done :P

But really, what game types are you, fans of natal, looking to play with the device?

I want to A) Play a first person Kung Fu game, and B) an RPG your play with a standard controller that allows you to actually talk to NPCs.
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Phazevariance

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#24 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts
No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.Haziqonfire
LOL, you can use a controller at the same time if you please... but you don't need to hold big lolipops in your hands with Natal.
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OhSnapitz

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#25 OhSnapitz
Member since 2002 • 19282 Posts
[QUOTE="TheXFiles88"][QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.

Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

Exactly. Some of the posters on here are so narrow minded. You guys have to listen to these TOP 7 Japanese developers of their visions for Natal. Their creativities are broader then the most of the posters here: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/25/tgs-2009-japanese-developers-love-on-project-natal/

..don't even have to look at your link to imagine the possibilities of Natal. What if Trama Center used Natal instead of the wii mote? What about a FP RPG ala Oblivion that allowed you to use spells or weapons (or a combination of both) with small gestures. How about a flight sim game that allowed you to fully control a cockpit and actually perform fighter jet functions including dog fighting. Or maybe a fighter sim (ala fight night / UFC) that allowed you to actually strike your opponent without the use of "sticks".. But no.. The only arguments nay sayers have is.. "bu.. but.. I not playing teh COD on Natal pew. pew.. pew..." :roll: No vision man.. no vision.
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LegatoSkyheart

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#26 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

Powa Glowv

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mariokart64fan

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#27 mariokart64fan
Member since 2003 • 20828 Posts

it will help 360 but the question is how much , they need 3 key things to make it work

1 is obvious a good price

2 good support early on

3 good support later on , (this is as important as having it from day one) but still i dont think it will be wii like in terms of sales,

its also less likely that 100 percent of the 360 fanbase would buy in to it

now compared to move this seams to have an edge

why

because

1 move is restricted to 2 players if the extension is being used

2 price of getting into the move is just as high if not higher then what wiimotes go for as it is so in the end -your better off just getting awii for motion gaming

3 support again no word on support at this time only games ive seen that use it is socom 4 -sony exclusive and gameparty 4 -which wont sell well regardless off of wii that is ,

and 4 -its just a wii mote branded by sony

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nhh18

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#28 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

[QUOTE="alextherussian"][QUOTE="navyguy21"] Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.tikki25x

Following up on this. Imagine a game like Black and White on Natal. Its a near perfect fit. What about expanding Tom Clancy's endwar to the point where its hands plus voice only. There are even much more basic ideas, Heavy Rain type games, opening doors, chests with your hands or even just moving inventory around (on a classic inventory screen). Final point, what about casting spells in game, by tracing out certain shapes, sure you would look like a mental patient but the possibility is there...

not to mention games that use Natal and the controller together. theres a ton of possibilities, but we really wont know until E3

Just think about this for a second. Think about it.

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EmperorSupreme

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#29 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7686 Posts
I'm pretty down on Natal for two reasons. MS hasn't shown any actual games yet and they have not demonstrated the technology even works in the real world. It's amazing at this stage they are planning to launch this year.
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Fuhgeddabouditt

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#30 Fuhgeddabouditt
Member since 2010 • 5468 Posts
My opinion still hasnt changed about Natal. I still think it will bomb.
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Half-Way

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#31 Half-Way
Member since 2010 • 5001 Posts

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]No controller means I'm not interested. It might work well but I don't think it's going to be used for anything beyond some quick, easy to play games for an expanded audience. Which is fine, but I'm not willing to pay for something that won't be used in other software as well. We'll see - E3 is just around the corner anyway.navyguy21
Do you know the capabilities of Natal? What would you like to see devs do with it? (honest question, not trying to be mean) I think peoples idea of natal is narrow, as in they only think about motion controlled gaming (mini games) but i think natal could be used in other areas like maybe throwing a grenade back in COD, or creating a vocal diversion in splinter cell.

i lol'd, im not even going to bother.

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Ibacai

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#32 Ibacai
Member since 2006 • 14459 Posts
Sweet, Spain likes it. What about Uruguay though? I think it seems to be the more level headed of the two countries. I'm also needing the information on whether or not Italy saw this because I'm sure we would have heard the bragging before now. And yes, little ole' America is crying like a stupid baby for being left out of the loop. Heh, Natal itself needs to come out and be awesome for me to even bat an eye at it. Same goes for Move, Cows. :|
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Syn_Valence

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#33 Syn_Valence
Member since 2004 • 2172 Posts

too bad micro is going to deep six it with a crazy price tag........come on they basically overrprice all their accessories whats going to change with this.

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XboximusPrime

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#34 XboximusPrime
Member since 2009 • 5405 Posts

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

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navyguy21

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#35 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17892 Posts

too bad micro is going to deep six it with a crazy price tag........come on they basically overrprice all their accessories whats going to change with this.

Syn_Valence
This is a different animal altogether. MS wants this in all homes, so it will be priced well. Analysts say that they are even willing to take a slight loss on it to ensure its success. MS can afford to do this since they are very profitable this gen. Natal wont be over 70 bucks
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Androvinus

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#36 Androvinus
Member since 2008 • 5796 Posts
we'll see
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xhawk27

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#37 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12194 Posts

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

XboximusPrime

I like to hear your source for this?

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benbeckman

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#38 benbeckman
Member since 2010 • 702 Posts
lmao  this is the most retarded thing i've ever seen
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killzowned24

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#39 killzowned24
Member since 2007 • 7345 Posts

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

XboximusPrime
looks like it.
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Androvinus

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#40 Androvinus
Member since 2008 • 5796 Posts
[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

killzowned24
looks like it.

yea you cant play games with that if you are struggling through menus
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xhawk27

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#41 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12194 Posts

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

killzowned24

looks like it.

That must be from last year.

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shadow8585

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#42 shadow8585
Member since 2006 • 2947 Posts
My opinion still hasnt changed about Natal. I still think it will bomb. Fuhgeddabouditt
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killzowned24

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#43 killzowned24
Member since 2007 • 7345 Posts

[QUOTE="killzowned24"][QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

xhawk27

looks like it.

That must be from last year.

na , it new

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forza420

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#44 forza420
Member since 2010 • 1225 Posts
honestly dude, i love 360 and all but im not looking forward to this gimmick. sure it sounds great on paper but i think its not what its cracked up to be. i'll pass on this.looks like an attempt to try to get a piece of the Wii Market
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xhawk27

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#45 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12194 Posts

[QUOTE="xhawk27"]

[QUOTE="killzowned24"] looks like it. killzowned24

That must be from last year.

na , it new

Is that video from GDC? I think it's because of the low lighting but I am going to wait until E3 to make a final judgment.

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Boomshaffted

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#47 Boomshaffted
Member since 2009 • 721 Posts
I expect it to be OK, but... The 4 meter requirement is going to make it useless for a lot of gamers, seeing as a lot of gamers are younger, living in small bedrooms, dorm rooms, or apartments. Pair this with the fact that it's a really quite distinctive control scheme that won't work with a lot of games and even lacks the crossover with normal controllers that a Wii-style wand gives, and you've limited the audience a great deal conceptually alone. Limiting the audience like this will lead to less support and... Well, it just ain't pretty. On the other hand, Natal isn't XBOX only tech - it's PC tech as well. It's also meant to be not just for games, but for dealing with interface as well. I actually see this becoming more successful as a general form of interface for a variety of functions than just a gaming device, and building slowly to have a solid base on the PC. It just won't be an immediate revolution in gaming or anything like that, and will actually have a relatively small impact in gaming for a long time.
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Leo-Magic

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#48 Leo-Magic
Member since 2005 • 3025 Posts
cant wait man.
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monson21502

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#49 monson21502
Member since 2009 • 8230 Posts
I expect it to be OK, but... The 4 meter requirement is going to make it useless for a lot of gamers.Boomshaffted
it can adjust to any playing area. the guy on the talk show last year already said that.
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#50 monson21502
Member since 2009 • 8230 Posts
[QUOTE="killzowned24"][QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

huh, from what ive heard it lags to hell and back.

looks like it.

that must be a sony bravia.