PROPOSAL: PCs should NOT be compared to CONSOLES in SW

I'm aware this has been brought up before, but I really think we need some official decision on this. PCs are simply not consoles by all standards which us SW users define "console" with.

First, the word console itself comes with obvious implications.

* Implied are BRANDS backing the console (sony, ninty, MS) whereas PCs are a broad category of hardware that remain, for the most part, faceless and widely varied. Brands are really what give console gamers an identity in several ways.

* Implied are ITERATIONS of the console, some sense of evolution that gives us a way to compare consoles of the same generations to eachother. The PC is vaguely "upgradeable", again, the processing power of PCs varies so wildly from PC to PC and year to year that we cannot compare PCs to consoles in any meaningful way (whereas we can compare PS3 vs. Xbox 360 with concrete specs and game libraries, we have no way to have meaningful discussion on PS3 vs. present PC without making stupid arbitrary rules for tech specs and such)

* Implied are conventional DESIGN PRINCIPLES which are standardized in consoles (consoles are simply designed with space consciousness in mind, with ease of playability in mind, with FUN in mind...) Whereas PCs aren't necessarily designed with ANY of these factors.

If anyone has anymore reasons, feel free to add them. But my MAIN point is that PCs simply do not compare to consoles in a way that is useful, clearly defined, or even relevant. Console exclusives with PC ports should not be considered multi-plat because the PC is not a platform. For purposes of SW discussion, we need to distinguish the two.

Proposal denied.darklord888

Other than this textified useless nugget of turd you tossed on my topic, care to explain why?

Proposal denied.darklord888

same here

I don't think we can stress this enough:

PCs are NOT CONSOLES. Stop calling PCs "consoles." They are not. They are PCs.

However they are still valid in System Wars.

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

It never was, however this is System Wars, and PCs are still valid in the context of the discussions here.Vandalvideo

So just to be clear here:

The PC cannot "win" a generation nor can any PC game be used as ownage over a console game since their is no standard PC build with which to compare?

And a games such as Halo are exclusive.

Yes?

Yeah PCs should never be considered game machines sinceyou can't put in a game and play right away like you can with consoels.

It never was, however this is System Wars, and PCs are still valid in the context of the discussions here.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]It never was, however this is System Wars, and PCs are still valid in the context of the discussions here._Impmacaque_

So just to be clear here:

The PC cannot "win" a generation nor can any PC game be used as ownage over a console game since their is no standard PC build with which to compare?

And a games such as Halo are exclusive.

Yes?

The PC is a viable and accepted gaming platform here in System Wars. It is primarily designed for use at home, just like a console. The PC IS A GAMING SYSTEM. This is System Wars.

Quit trying to eliminate the PC so that you may claim some illusionary 1st place over the other consoles. There are 4 gaming machines in the at-home race and the PC is one of them. End of story.

I mean, exactly what is the difference? You insert a disc and click on NEXT a few times. That's a pretty simple process. You know, some Playstation 3 games are installed basically the same way...

It already is clear that PCs are not consoles. However, it IS a gaming system.

This is System Wars. NOT Console Wars. PC has just as much of a right to be here as any of the consoles.

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

Mad_Rhetoric

My point isn't the definition of PC as a console, everyone knows it isn't - the problem is people comparing PCs to consoles in ways that are outright stupid "lol crysis owns everything on the next-gen consoles" or "lol PC sales are tha best PC wins this gen"... Both kinds of statements are totally baseless and cannot be backed up with facts things like game quality vary wildly from PC to PC and things like PC sales cannot be accurately tracked.

[QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

_Impmacaque_

My point isn't the definition of PC as a console, everyone knows it isn't - the problem is people comparing PCs to consoles in ways that are outright stupid "lol crysis owns everything on the next-gen consoles" or "lol PC sales are tha best PC wins this gen"... Both kinds of statements are totally baseless and cannot be backed up with facts things like game quality vary wildly from PC to PC and things like PC sales cannot be accurately tracked.

It's not fair because every year the PC is Next Gen so for that reason they shouldn't be considered in SW.

[QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

_Impmacaque_

My point isn't the definition of PC as a console, everyone knows it isn't - the problem is people comparing PCs to consoles in ways that are outright stupid "lol crysis owns everything on the next-gen consoles" or "lol PC sales are tha best PC wins this gen"... Both kinds of statements are totally baseless and cannot be backed up with facts things like game quality vary wildly from PC to PC and things like PC sales cannot be accurately tracked.

Well, since nothing really competes with PCs directly and you can play any PCgame on (almost) any PC, then of course they win in their own right.

The PC is a viable and accepted gaming platform here in System Wars. It is primarily designed for use at home, just like a console. The PC IS A GAMING SYSTEM. This is System Wars.

Quit trying to eliminate the PC so that you may claim some illusionary 1st place over the other consoles. There are 4 gaming machines in the at-home race and the PC is one of them. End of story.

I mean, exactly what is the difference? You insert a disc and click on NEXT a few times. That's a pretty simple process. You know, some Playstation 3 games are installed basically the same way...

TekkenMaster606

PCs are, for the VAST majority of PC owners, NOTdesigned as gaming systems. By your standards we should include cell phones as gaming consoles too, since a minority of cell phone users use their cells to play games.

Screw it, the DS didn't win the handheld, the new Nokia phone did. It has most sales, amirite?

Wrong.

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]

The PC is a viable and accepted gaming platform here in System Wars. It is primarily designed for use at home, just like a console. The PC IS A GAMING SYSTEM. This is System Wars.

Quit trying to eliminate the PC so that you may claim some illusionary 1st place over the other consoles. There are 4 gaming machines in the at-home race and the PC is one of them. End of story.

I mean, exactly what is the difference? You insert a disc and click on NEXT a few times. That's a pretty simple process. You know, some Playstation 3 games are installed basically the same way...

_Impmacaque_

PCs are, for the VAST majority of PC owners, NOTdesigned as gaming systems. By your standards we should include cell phones as gaming consoles too, since a minority of cell phone users use their cells to play games.

Screw it, the DS didn't win the handheld, the new Nokia phone did. It has most sales, amirite?

Wrong.

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]

The PC is a viable and accepted gaming platform here in System Wars. It is primarily designed for use at home, just like a console. The PC IS A GAMING SYSTEM. This is System Wars.

Quit trying to eliminate the PC so that you may claim some illusionary 1st place over the other consoles. There are 4 gaming machines in the at-home race and the PC is one of them. End of story.

I mean, exactly what is the difference? You insert a disc and click on NEXT a few times. That's a pretty simple process. You know, some Playstation 3 games are installed basically the same way...

_Impmacaque_

PCs are, for the VAST majority of PC owners, NOTdesigned as gaming systems. By your standards we should include cell phones as gaming consoles too, since a minority of cell phone users use their cells to play games.

Screw it, the DS didn't win the handheld, the new Nokia phone did. It has most sales, amirite?

Wrong.

Sales are not the only aspect of "winning" Cell phones are not supported as gaming machines with enough software to be considered gaming machines, therefore they are not viewed as gaming machines

The sales of hardware is trivial. Leave the sales discussions of machines to the sheep. I do know that Steam has served 13 million unique users.

Those are gamers.

World of Warcraft has nearly 10 million players.

Those are gamers.

The Sims 2 has sold nearly 8 million copies and it's expansions have sold in the millions too.

Gamers.

It's a valid machine to discuss in a gaming forum.

[QUOTE="_Impmacaque_"][QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

Vandalvideo

My point isn't the definition of PC as a console, everyone knows it isn't - the problem is people comparing PCs to consoles in ways that are outright stupid "lol crysis owns everything on the next-gen consoles" or "lol PC sales are tha best PC wins this gen"... Both kinds of statements are totally baseless and cannot be backed up with facts things like game quality vary wildly from PC to PC and things like PC sales cannot be accurately tracked.

I'm not debating whether the PC is a *system* it CLEARLY is used by some people for gaming. The point is the PC cannot be compared to consoles in the context of system wars because we have no standard PC to use for comparison. We have no clear-cut process that distinguishes PCs from one generation and another (PS2 to PS3 is a clear jump from an old generation to a new one) .. Since the "War" part of system wars relies so heavily on these distinguished dividers between generations, using the PCs for whatever purpose in SW seem stupid other than comparing PCs to one another.

[I'm not debating whether the PC is a *system* it CLEARLY is used by some people for gaming. The point is the PC cannot be compared to consoles in the context of system wars because we have no standard PC to use for comparison. We have no clear-cut process that distinguishes PCs from one generation and another (PS2 to PS3 is a clear jump from an old generation to a new one) .. Since the "War" part of system wars relies so heavily on these distinguished dividers between generations, using the PCs for whatever purpose in SW seem stupid other than comparing PCs to one another. _Impmacaque_

You can't upgrade your Console so right there is an unfair advantage for the PC. To compare graphics you should only compare the PC to the Console of the time it came out. Like the 360 you can only compare it to a late 2005 PC.

Sales are not the only aspect of "winning" Cell phones are not supported as gaming machines with enough software to be considered gaming machines, therefore they are not viewed as gaming machines

Microsoft was quoted as saying there are over 200 million viable gaming machines out there amongst the PCs. Thats a lot more than your consoles. Heck, thats more than like trhee different generatiosn of all platforms combined!

Here's two different quotes from people arguing the same point against me, yet you're both presenting radically different views of what makes something a gaming console.

So what's it gonna be? Why is a PC a gaming console and why isn't my nokia phone one?

Would you say comparing a nokia phone to the DS is a valid comparison? No, sounds silly right? So why would you compare the PC to consoles? The gap between the two isn't as pronounced as it is in the former example, but the analogy is just as valid.

Here's two different quotes from people arguing the same point against me, yet you're both presenting radically different views of what makes something a gaming console.So what's it gonna be? Why is a PC a gaming console and why isn't my nokia phone one?Would you say comparing a nokia phone to the DS is a valid comparison? No, sounds silly right? So why would you compare the PC to consoles? The gap between the two isn't as pronounced as it is in the former example, but the analogy is just as valid._Impmacaque_

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

Mad_Rhetoric

You can't upgrade your Console so right there is an unfair advantage for the PC. To compare graphics you should only compare the PC to the Console of the time it came out. Like the 360 you can only compare it to a late 2005 PC.

PS3_3DO

Here's part of why I hate using PC -> console comparisons. The 360 was released what.. 2 years ago or so. So does that mean it can only be compared to the best PC from 2 years ago for graphical purposes? In 3 years, will you hermits still be saying that "since the most highly advanced $10,000 dollar gaming PC that two people on the planet own has better graphic capacity then the 360, the PC owns all the systems"..

No standard = no comparison to consoles since consoles are completely BASED on standards. A console keeps its specs until the new generation, whereas the PC is constantly changing for some people, and remaining hugely outdated for others.

[QUOTE="PS3_3DO"]

You can't upgrade your Console so right there is an unfair advantage for the PC. To compare graphics you should only compare the PC to the Console of the time it came out. Like the 360 you can only compare it to a late 2005 PC.

_Impmacaque_

Here's part of why I hate using PC -> console comparisons. The 360 was released what.. 2 years ago or so. So does that mean it can only be compared to the best PC from 2 years ago for graphical purposes? In 3 years, will you hermits still be saying that "since the most highly advanced $10,000 dollar gaming PC that two people on the planet own has better graphic capacity then the 360, the PC owns all the systems"..

No standard = no comparison to consoles since consoles are completely BASED on standards. A console keeps its specs until the new generation, whereas the PC is constantly changing for some people, and remaining hugely outdated for others.

[QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

Terami

PC = Personal Computer

PC gaming is about dead and no one ever hypes PC games or cares how they are scored except for hermits. The only reason it gets brought up at all is when cows says HEY IZ NT CLUSIV EN PC 2. The PC section in game stores used to take up most of the store. Now its like a end cap on the used controller aisle.JiveT

[QUOTE="PS3_3DO"]

You can't upgrade your Console so right there is an unfair advantage for the PC. To compare graphics you should only compare the PC to the Console of the time it came out. Like the 360 you can only compare it to a late 2005 PC.

_Impmacaque_

Here's part of why I hate using PC -> console comparisons. The 360 was released what.. 2 years ago or so. So does that mean it can only be compared to the best PC from 2 years ago for graphical purposes? In 3 years, will you hermits still be saying that "since the most highly advanced $10,000 dollar gaming PC that two people on the planet own has better graphic capacity then the 360, the PC owns all the systems"..

No standard = no comparison to consoles since consoles are completely BASED on standards. A console keeps its specs until the new generation, whereas the PC is constantly changing for some people, and remaining hugely outdated for others.

That's just tough $(@*. Life isn't fair. Comparisons to the PC are not fair.

Maybe you should start backing the superior pony instead of coming up with excuses to exclude it.

[QUOTE="_Impmacaque_"]Here's two different quotes from people arguing the same point against me, yet you're both presenting radically different views of what makes something a gaming console.So what's it gonna be? Why is a PC a gaming console and why isn't my nokia phone one?Would you say comparing a nokia phone to the DS is a valid comparison? No, sounds silly right? So why would you compare the PC to consoles? The gap between the two isn't as pronounced as it is in the former example, but the analogy is just as valid.Vandalvideo

I'm not contesting this. I just used those quotes to point out the inconsistencies in logic brought about by supporters of the PC as a viable contender against consoles.

You keep saying that it fits into the context of system wars - so tell me, how so? Give me an example where the PC can be fairly used in a comparison against consoles WITHOUT assuming a "standard" PC build for the sake of comparison.

I think it's impossible.

[QUOTE="PS3_3DO"]

You can't upgrade your Console so right there is an unfair advantage for the PC. To compare graphics you should only compare the PC to the Console of the time it came out. Like the 360 you can only compare it to a late 2005 PC.

_Impmacaque_

Here's part of why I hate using PC -> console comparisons. The 360 was released what.. 2 years ago or so. So does that mean it can only be compared to the best PC from 2 years ago for graphical purposes? In 3 years, will you hermits still be saying that "since the most highly advanced $10,000 dollar gaming PC that two people on the planet own has better graphic capacity then the 360, the PC owns all the systems"..

No standard = no comparison to consoles since consoles are completely BASED on standards. A console keeps its specs until the new generation, whereas the PC is constantly changing for some people, and remaining hugely outdated for others.

You pretty much touched on the HUGE Advantage of PCs (upgradeable) along with it's Biggest Disadvantage (cost)

Able to be upgraded

and

That it people do upgrade and when they upgrades it costs them money

Both those things are inherent when you're talkinga bout PC as a gaming machine.

It's all about weight(s) and value. I mean The PS3 and 360 are not on the same playing field as the Wii in the console race yet they are compared all the time to it.

I'm not contesting this. I just used those quotes to point out the inconsistencies in logic brought about by supporters of the PC as a viable contender against consoles. You keep saying that it fits into the context of system wars - so tell me, how so? Give me an example where the PC can be fairly used in a comparison against consoles WITHOUT assuming a "standard" PC build for the sake of comparison. I think it's impossible. _Impmacaque_

[QUOTE="Terami"][QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]

wtf are you talking about, you think pc are consoles?

santeri_15

PC = Personal Computer