Sony was smart when they decided to put the Blu-Ray media in their PS3. This in affect forced Playstation fans to not only purchase a next-gen game console, but also a HD Blu-Ray player as well. With the PS3 slightly less then new stand-alone Blu-Ray players, many consumers who have been interested in a Blu-Ray player have been buying the PS3. The problem now is, many people who have stuck with the DVD format has found an even cheaper solution. They are upgrading their DVD players to upcoversion DVD players, which convert regular DVD's into 1080p resolution. These new DVD Players are even cheaper then the PS3 and can be bought for $200 or less. What's more, these upconversion DVD players are improving and the quality of the picture isn't that far off from what Blu-Ray has to offer. For consumers, this is a win-win situation. 1) They don't have to get rid of their DVD collection to convert it to Blu-Ray movie. Lot of money saved there. 2) They can get the upconversion DVD player for a lot less then a PS3 or Blu-Ray player. So is Blu-Ray already dead by consumers standards? What about digitial distribution? If that takes off as well, will Blu-Ray sales start to fall? Here is the article.

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/bluray-market-too-reliant-on-the-playstation-3/?biz=1

*******************************************************

ABI Research notes that the Blu-ray market is "heavily tilted" towards the PS3, and while that may be good for Sony's console, it's not so good for the overall Blu-ray market.

Posted by James Brightman on Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Sony's Blu-ray format finally triumphed over HD DVD earlier this year, but a victory dance may be a bit premature according to ABI Research. "Blu-ray cannot rest on its laurels. A bright future for high-definition DVD is not a foregone conclusion," the firm said.

Indeed, the argument from many pundits has been that the winner of the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD battle would ultimately gain little as digital distribution slowly takes over for DVD. In the meantime, DVD users see little reason to upgrade to Blu-ray it seems.

"We are starting to see an increase in the number of DVD players with built-in upconverters, and the video processing is getting better with each new generation," noted ABI principal analyst Steve Wilson. "Today about 35% of all DVD players sold include upconversion. ABI Research expects that figure to climb to about 60% by 2013."

The other problem, according to ABI, is that the Blu-ray market itself is "heavily tilted" toward's the PS3. The market for standalone Blu-ray players has not been very encouraging, ABI said. "The studios better hope that people are playing movies on their PlayStations. Otherwise there's very little installed base," Wilson explained. "In 2008 about 85% of the Blu-ray players in the market will be found in PS3s; the dedicated consumer electronics and PC-based types of Blu-ray players won't catch up in terms of market share until about 2013."

In an effort to spread Blu-ray beyond PS3, optical disc manufacturers are lowering prices and the PC manufacturers are starting to offer lower-cost configurations, but it may not matter, Wilson said: "If you're only going to spend $500-600 on a PC, are you really going to spend 40% more for a built-in Blu-ray player?"

In order for Blu-ray adoption to take off, the prices on standalone players have to come down, but so far the manufacturers have kept them fairly high. "The studios had hoped to have settled the war," Wilson concluded, "but I think they're going to be disappointed when they don't see the volumes of players going up they way they would have liked."

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

-Jiggles-

PC gaming is conciderd dead? really? by who?

phail/10 for both of you

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

shadow_hosi

PC gaming is conciderd dead? really? by who?

phail/10 for both of you

[QUOTE="shadow_hosi"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

Taalon

PC gaming is conciderd dead? really? by who?

phail/10 for both of you

Exactly. Do your research next time, Hosi.

As for Blu-Ray, I think that digital distribution will take a lot of marketshare out of it's grasp, but it won't kill it. Blu-Ray will still be very prevalent for the next 5-10 years until another format of higher standards comes out.

I have an upconverting DVD player, and they don't stand a chance against Blu-Ray quality wise.

If consumers are truly confused, and don't understand the difference, that would be tragic. But I don't think this is anything more than FUD from Anti Blu-Ray.

[QUOTE="shadow_hosi"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

Taalon

PC gaming is conciderd dead? really? by who?

phail/10 for both of you

SW doesn't count and epic said PC gaming is alive and well like a week after making that statement. So they don't count either :)

HOW IS blu-ray dead, it just won the format war?Lebron181

imo, in order for bluray to succeed they have to make sure everyone knows the benefits.

-picture quality; disc media is falling behind television visual capabilities

-you dont have to throw away your dvds. Bluray players can play dvds (not sure if they all do, but they should)

-reduce piracy, since the files will be larger

The problem now is, many people who have stuck with the DVD format has found an even cheaper solution. They are upgrading their DVD players to upcoversion DVD players, which convert regular DVD's into 1080p resolution. These new DVD Players are even cheaper then the PS3 and can be bought for $200 or less. What's more, these upconversion DVD players are improving and the quality of the picture isn't that far off from what Blu-Ray has to offer.XanderZane

[QUOTE="XanderZane"]The problem now is, many people who have stuck with the DVD format has found an even cheaper solution. They are upgrading their DVD players to upcoversion DVD players, which convert regular DVD's into 1080p resolution. These new DVD Players are even cheaper then the PS3 and can be bought for $200 or less. What's more, these upconversion DVD players are improving and the quality of the picture isn't that far off from what Blu-Ray has to offer.skektek

So true. Well put.

Bravo and so forth.

I have an upconverting DVD player, and they don't stand a chance against Blu-Ray quality wise.

If consumers are truly confused, and don't understand the difference, that would be tragic. But I don't think this is anything more than FUD from Anti Blu-Ray.

SolidTy

I think most people simply don't care and are happy enough with DVD to not make spending the money required to upgrade their player and collection worth it.

Sony was smart when they decided to put the Blu-Ray media in their PS3. This in affect forced Playstation fans to not only purchase a next-gen game console, but also a HD Blu-Ray player as well. With the PS3 slightly less then new stand-alone Blu-Ray players, many consumers who have been interested in a Blu-Ray player have been buying the PS3. The problem now is, many people who have stuck with the DVD format has found an even cheaper solution. They are upgrading their DVD players to upcoversion DVD players, which convert regular DVD's into 1080p resolution. These new DVD Players are even cheaper then the PS3 and can be bought for $200 or less. What's more, these upconversion DVD players are improving and the quality of the picture isn't that far off from what Blu-Ray has to offer. For consumers, this is a win-win situation. 1) They don't have to get rid of their DVD collection to convert it to Blu-Ray movie. Lot of money saved there. 2) They can get the upconversion DVD player for a lot less then a PS3 or Blu-Ray player. So is Blu-Ray already dead by consumers standards? What about digitial distribution? If that takes off as well, will Blu-Ray sales start to fall? Here is the article.

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/bluray-market-too-reliant-on-the-playstation-3/?biz=1

XanderZane

Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.

Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.donwoogie

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.GunSmith1_basic

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

Yeah, if the US is capable of full DD distribution in five years, I'll eat my hat. The infrastructure isn't even close yet.

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.GunSmith1_basic

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

Yeh, in Britain, most lines are even above 0.25Megabytes/second and most have download limits of around 40Gb a month.

[QUOTE="shadow_hosi"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

Taalon

PC gaming is conciderd dead? really? by who?

phail/10 for both of you

Didn't they also called the Wii a cancer or something?

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.mattbbpl

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

Yeah, if the US is capable of full DD distribution in five years, I'll eat my hat. The infrastructure isn't even close yet.

Yeh, in the UK, the government said upgrading the infrastructure would cost £10billion or something around that figure and it was thrown out by British Telecom saying it won't be needed for yeras to come, and even then, they have no clue how they ar going to raise that money.

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

-Jiggles-

PC gaming isn't dead. Console Gaming generations over 16 billion a year, but PC gaming generates about 1 billion in revenue. So no, PC gaming doesn't even compare to console gaming in terms of popularity and profit. It's like night and day.

I don't think Blu-Ray is dead, but I also don't think it going to excell and surpass DVD either. It'll be a niche media. Sort of a luxury for people who must have the best of everything. Maybe after the price gets down to DVD or lower, it'll be more welcomed.

****************************************************

I have an upconverting DVD player, and they don't stand a chance against Blu-Ray quality wise.

If consumers are truly confused, and don't understand the difference, that would be tragic. But I don't think this is anything more than FUD from Anti Blu-Ray.

SolidTy

Well, tell that to the consumer, as they are the ones speaking with their wallets and buying DVD upconverters. Obviously the difference isn't that great to lem where they have to pay an addition $5-$10 for a Blu-Ray movie. There must be a lot of anti-Blu-Ray consumers out there. I've watched "300" on post Blu-Ray and my XBox 360 upscaled to 1080p and the differences were pretty minor. You could tell the difference, but it wasn't a huge difference that would make me say, "Oh snap, that's incredible!"

[QUOTE="XanderZane"]The problem now is, many people who have stuck with the DVD format has found an even cheaper solution. They are upgrading their DVD players to upcoversion DVD players, which convert regular DVD's into 1080p resolution. These new DVD Players are even cheaper then the PS3 and can be bought for $200 or less. What's more, these upconversion DVD players are improving and the quality of the picture isn't that far off from what Blu-Ray has to offer.skektek

I've seen both Blu-Ray and upcoverting DVD's in 1080p and yes, there is a difference, but not a HUGE difference like you are thinking. Huge difference like VHS to DVD 720p difference. That's a huge difference. Regular DVD on a regular none HD T.V. -vs- Blu-Ray is a huge difference.

I'm still wondering how HD Digital Distributed of movies and T.V. programs will effect Blu-Ray overall.

****************************************************

It seems like your just doing an advertisement for "upconversion DVD players"ghostrc

Uumm.. I didn't write the article. Tell that to the person who who the story.

Im sorry, but upconverting dvd players are NOWHERE near the quality of 1080p blu ray movies. FACT. Anyone who is being told this by retailers are being told lies. I feel sorry for the people who actually believe this also.

lemmings are pretty fast to declare death over bluray only to recognize that people actually care for physical manifestation of their data sambalimbo

lol - wut? seriously, what the hell are you talking about? 'only to recognize that people actually care for physical manfisestation of their data?' wth does that even mean? lol :P

[QUOTE="sambalimbo"]lemmings are pretty fast to declare death over bluray only to recognize that people actually care for physical manifestation of their data 3picuri3

lol - wut? seriously, what the hell are you talking about? 'only to recognize that people actually care for physical manfisestation of their data?' wth does that even mean? lol :P

It means they like their movies in a disc format rather than on their harddrive.

Epic said it themselves, as well as half of SW.
Taalon

Epic are dicks, they release an extremely buggy game (I mean extreme, check the forums on epic) mine wouldnt even load for three months and because of this the online play sucked (due to noone actually being able to play the dam game) and they blame pc users for it saying that they wont deveelop for pc wtf?

pfht at least their engine is good, although offset looks even better

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.donwoogie

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

Yeah, if the US is capable of full DD distribution in five years, I'll eat my hat. The infrastructure isn't even close yet.

Yeh, in the UK, the government said upgrading the infrastructure would cost £10billion or something around that figure and it was thrown out by British Telecom saying it won't be needed for yeras to come, and even then, they have no clue how they ar going to raise that money.

Not sure what you guys are talking about. Most cable companies already offer HD Digital movies and T.V. programs for rental or purchase. This has been happening for several years now. How many people have DVR's in their homes? It's only a matter of time before games start getting distributed this way in a larger form. We already have downloadable demos and full version games on the PC, 360 and PS3. You think DD isn't going to grow between now in the next 5 years? The infrastruture is already in place. The broadband technology just needs to be improved and that's already in the process. Blu-Ray and DD are both still in their infancy, buy both will probably grow around the same pace.

**********************************************************

Digital Distro is a novel idea...when the networks can actually handle it, 5 years at best...at the very best!

It's going to take that long or more before Blu-Ray even starts to surpass DVD is sales. Honestly, I think something better will be out before that time comes.

[QUOTE="donwoogie"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]Upscaled DVDs are the market's resistance to change. It is unlikely this will happen for a long period of time as studios will gradually move towards adopting Blu-Ray only for a large amout of titles. In addition, as Blu-Ray gets more heavily adopted, costs go down due to economies of scale meaning that Blu-Ray players are going to get cheaper and cheaper. I also don't think DD will be a contender for at least 5 years. The internet infrastructure in most countries is just no where near ready for it.XanderZane

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

Yeah, if the US is capable of full DD distribution in five years, I'll eat my hat. The infrastructure isn't even close yet.

Yeh, in the UK, the government said upgrading the infrastructure would cost £10billion or something around that figure and it was thrown out by British Telecom saying it won't be needed for yeras to come, and even then, they have no clue how they ar going to raise that money.

Not sure what you guys are talking about. Most cable companies already offer HD Digital movies and T.V. programs for rental or purchase. This has been happening for several years now. How many people have DVR's in their homes? It's only a matter of time before games start getting distributed this way in a larger form. We already have downloadable demos and full version games on the PC, 360 and PS3. You think DD isn't going to grow between now in the next 5 years? The infrastruture is already in place. The broadband technology just needs to be improved and that's already in the process. Blu-Ray and DD are both still in their infancy, buy both will probably grow around the same pace.

There are a few hiccups with that thought process though. First, even the cable companies in the US that offer such services place monthly download limitations on internet access. That's the smallest hurdle, but it isn't as easy to overcome as many people think since bandwidth costs money (which is why the limit exists in the first place).

More importantly, many people in the US don't have access to high speed internet - at all. DSL (which is pretty slow to begin with) requires a close proximity to a DSL station. Cable companies require you to be close enough to a cable station to run the lines to your house. There's always satellite, but that's slow, unreliable and isn't really a viable option. Think about how spread out the populations of the US and Canada are. A great number of people and regions simply don't have access to those high speed lines.

even IF digital distribution comes around, physical formats will still lead the market for a while to come. theres no argueing that people like haveing something to show for their money. a digital movie saved on the HDD isn't the same as having a disc. plus even if we had fast enough internet connections, theres still HDD reliability in question. physical formats will dominate the markets for many my years to come.

and to say blu ray is a dead format???blu ray isn't even mainstream yet...if you buy it now you're still considered an early adopter. blu ray is stil just a baby. they're only hopeing for cheaper players and higher marketshare AFTER this holiday season

AT&T: Internet to hit full capacity by 2010

Imagine if people started watching 480p video instead of youtube 320p stuff...

DD has a LOT of problems to solve before it becomes the dominant delivery medium.

[QUOTE="XanderZane"][QUOTE="donwoogie"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

5 years is optimistic. There is no way North America will be there unless we get a major upgrade in internet technology.

There are maybe a couple of countries that can do it. Japan maybe could in five years. Maybe

mattbbpl

Yeah, if the US is capable of full DD distribution in five years, I'll eat my hat. The infrastructure isn't even close yet.

Yeh, in the UK, the government said upgrading the infrastructure would cost £10billion or something around that figure and it was thrown out by British Telecom saying it won't be needed for yeras to come, and even then, they have no clue how they ar going to raise that money.

Not sure what you guys are talking about. Most cable companies already offer HD Digital movies and T.V. programs for rental or purchase. This has been happening for several years now. How many people have DVR's in their homes? It's only a matter of time before games start getting distributed this way in a larger form. We already have downloadable demos and full version games on the PC, 360 and PS3. You think DD isn't going to grow between now in the next 5 years? The infrastruture is already in place. The broadband technology just needs to be improved and that's already in the process. Blu-Ray and DD are both still in their infancy, buy both will probably grow around the same pace.

There are a few hiccups with that thought process though. First, even the cable companies in the US that offer such services place monthly download limitations on internet access. That's the smallest hurdle, but it isn't as easy to overcome as many people think since bandwidth costs money (which is why the limit exists in the first place).

More importantly, many people in the US don't have access to high speed internet - at all. DSL (which is pretty slow to begin with) requires a close proximity to a DSL station. Cable companies require you to be close enough to a cable station to run the lines to your house. There's always satellite, but that's slow, unreliable and isn't really a viable option. Think about how spread out the populations of the US and Canada are. A great number of people and regions simply don't have access to those high speed lines.

In the UK, the only thing near DD is watching TV on Demand, but that is outrageously expensive. Bout £4 a movie to watch through for 24 hours. It is not widely used since DVDs cost around £7 which is much better value for money. Full DD will not happen. Most ISPs restrict download limits to 40GB a month for all internet usage. Most ISPs also throttle download speed during peak hours, ie. 4pm - 12 am. Whe I said infrastructure, I mean broadband infrastructure. The cabling going to most houses in the UK is old copper wiring which isn't built to handle large amounts of data traffic which results in bottlenecking.

Already dead? Just because a person wears a diaper and has reduced mobility doesn't mean they're really old. It can also mean they're really young :|munu9

OOOOooOOOoooo. Very well put.

[QUOTE="Lebron181"]HOW IS blu-ray dead, it just won the format war?GunSmith1_basic

imo, in order for bluray to succeed they have to make sure everyone knows the benefits.

-picture quality; disc media is falling behind television visual capabilities

-you dont have to throw away your dvds. Bluray players can play dvds (not sure if they all do, but they should)

-reduce piracy, since the files will be larger

As the DVD music format served to demonstrate, most consumers aren't particularly interested in a boost in quality, and certainly couldn't care less about the security, if it means shelling out more for the medium.

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

[QUOTE="Lebron181"]HOW IS blu-ray dead, it just won the format war?ThePlothole

imo, in order for bluray to succeed they have to make sure everyone knows the benefits.

-picture quality; disc media is falling behind television visual capabilities

-you dont have to throw away your dvds. Bluray players can play dvds (not sure if they all do, but they should)

-reduce piracy, since the files will be larger

As the DVD music format served to demonstrate, consumers aren't particularly interested in a boost in quality, and certainly couldn't care less about the security, if it means shelling out more for the medium.

One of the big problems with the SACD/DVD Audio formats was that fact that they were too restrictive when the population had already grown accustomed to transferring tracks from their CDs to their other devices in MP3 form. A new format needs to offer the population more than the previous format, not less. Often times higher fidelity just doesn't cut it, expecially when the consumer needs to pay a premium for that fidelity.

Upconverison will NEVER look as good as Blu Ray at full 1080p.

Not to mention more and more HT receivers are integrating the new uncompressed surround codecs that can only be done on a BR disc.

Blu-Ray has a bright future ahead of it.

[QUOTE="shadow_hosi"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

Taalon

PC gaming is conciderd dead? really? by who?

phail/10 for both of you

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

PC gaming is considered dead yet it's selling pretty damn well compared to console games.

It's too early to say if a format is already dead or not.

XanderZane

PC gaming isn't dead. Console Gaming generations over 16 billion a year, but PC gaming generates about 1 billion in revenue. So no, PC gaming doesn't even compare to console gaming in terms of popularity and profit. It's like night and day.

I don't think Blu-Ray is dead, but I also don't think it going to excell and surpass DVD either. It'll be a niche media. Sort of a luxury for people who must have the best of everything. Maybe after the price gets down to DVD or lower, it'll be more welcomed.

****************************************************

I have an upconverting DVD player, and they don't stand a chance against Blu-Ray quality wise.

If consumers are truly confused, and don't understand the difference, that would be tragic. But I don't think this is anything more than FUD from Anti Blu-Ray.

SolidTy

Well, tell that to the consumer, as they are the ones speaking with their wallets and buying DVD upconverters. Obviously the difference isn't that great to lem where they have to pay an addition $5-$10 for a Blu-Ray movie. There must be a lot of anti-Blu-Ray consumers out there. I've watched "300" on post Blu-Ray and my XBox 360 upscaled to 1080p and the differences were pretty minor. You could tell the difference, but it wasn't a huge difference that would make me say, "Oh snap, that's incredible!"

yea but that's kind of like when we wend from vhs to dvd, in between there was the release of the s-vhs that was almost as good as dvd at the time..

and by the way i'm ready for dd... now if only the providers where to:)