ps3 does NOT lack ram!!1

in short

the more cell u use the lessram you need + the Xdrram is 12x faster then your typical desktop ram

so no ps3 does not lack ram the ps3 lacks educated people like carmack who has to hire people...

i mean hes just an old school programmer the thing he knows is how to program for early 80 pcs looks at his engine its nothing more then a souped up motorstorm engine... thats why he complained about multi processors he cant keep up

here carmack get yourself educated and move on dont stay in the early 80s...

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

besides ps3 does not use 96 mb of ram anymore god where is his head

Still Carmack said the PS3 is the most powerful.Shusty_lives

"Theoretically" more powerful, actually. Then again, he also called it the "lowest common denominator"...

[QUOTE="Shusty_lives"]Still Carmack said the PS3 is the most powerful.Planeforger

"Theoretically" more powerful, actually. Then again, he also called it the "lowest common denominator"...

No worries, I have plenty of other developers that said PS3 is more powerful without the theoretically hold. How many developers you know saying otherwise? link if you have them.

Of course it lacks RAM, at least if you mean lacks in comparison to the 360. There is no doubt about it. Sheesh. This is so obvious that it doesn't need a new thread.

One has 512 unified memory and one does not. One has an extra 10MB embedded eDRAM and one does not. One uses less O/S memory, and one uses a lot more. Only fanboys refuse to acknowledge that the 360 GPU is better than the PS3 GPU. That is the objective truth.

Now, whether the overall PS3 system configuration can overcome the RAM/GPU shortcomings is another story. Perhaps so. But so far, the penalty seems to be an overall performance that is no better than the 360 and more effort is required to get there. Sony fans live in the future with 'the potential'. MS fans live in the now.

In any case, Sony gimped the Cell by opting for a relatively weak GPU. Seriously, which would you rather have?

1. PS3 as is

2. Xbox360 as is

3. PS3 Cell CPU combined with the 360 Xenos GPU.

yeah, it lacks games. x_boyfriend

lol. but i think i see a giant herd of cows heading this way.

I belive that carmack said that "the ps3 reserves 64 MB for the OS and the Xbox 360 reserves 32 MB for its OS" which is true btw. That is what he meant by "the Ps3 lacks ram".cronus233

To the OP: Do you even know how a computer works?

Of course it lacks RAM, at least if you mean lacks in comparison to the 360. There is no doubt about it. Sheesh. This is so obvious that it doesn't need a new thread.

One has 512 unified memory and one does not. One has an extra 10MB embedded eDRAM and one does not. One uses less O/S memory, and one uses a lot more. Only fanboys refuse to acknowledge that the 360 GPU is better than the PS3 GPU. That is the objective truth.

Now, whether the overall PS3 system configuration can overcome the RAM/GPU shortcomings is another story. Perhaps so. But so far, the penalty seems to be an overall performance that is no better than the 360 and more effort is required to get there. Sony fans live in the future with 'the potential'. MS fans live in the now.

In any case, Sony gimped the Cell by opting for a relatively weak GPU. Seriously, which would you rather have?

1. PS3 as is

2. Xbox360 as is

3. PS3 Cell CPU combined with the 360 Xenos GPU.

SUD123456

key featue is cell does not need alot ram once your game is optimized with cell in mind.. cell does things fast nothing have to be stored in the ram for a long time

carmack is a guy who built his game around the gpu the pc way of thinking ps3 is different you need to built with cpucell in mind this is why he needs to hire someone this is why he does not like multi core cpus this is why his engine lacks next gen..

see the linux distro on ps3 runs smooth with only the cell and 265 mb lets do the same on xbox360 only cpu anmd 265 mb it will blow up...

Bu..Bu..Bu..teh ps3 has lotz of ram!!!!!11!!!:cry::cry:
steve17989

wow, i'm really tired of these kinds of posts.

in short

the more cell u use the lessram you need + the Xdrram is 12x faster then your typical desktop ram

so no ps3 does not lack ram the ps3 lacks educated people like carmack who has to hire people...

i mean hes just an old school programmer the thing he knows is how to program for early 80 pcs looks at his engine its nothing more then a souped up motorstorm engine... thats why he complained about multi processors he cant keep up

here carmack get yourself educated and move on dont stay in the early 80s...

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

besides ps3 does not use 96 mb of ram anymore god where is his head

legalize3

XDR RAM = Very high latencys , which takes away its greatness..... sorry ... clockspeed isnt everything.

[QUOTE="legalize3"]

in short

the more cell u use the lessram you need + the Xdrram is 12x faster then your typical desktop ram

so no ps3 does not lack ram the ps3 lacks educated people like carmack who has to hire people...

i mean hes just an old school programmer the thing he knows is how to program for early 80 pcs looks at his engine its nothing more then a souped up motorstorm engine... thats why he complained about multi processors he cant keep up

here carmack get yourself educated and move on dont stay in the early 80s...

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

besides ps3 does not use 96 mb of ram anymore god where is his head

Meu2k7

XDR RAM = Very high latencys , which takes away its greatness..... sorry ... clockspeed isnt everything.

same can be said about xbox360 ram

high ram slow clockspeed which takes away its greatness.... sorry ... more ram isnt everything

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="legalize3"]

in short

the more cell u use the lessram you need + the Xdrram is 12x faster then your typical desktop ram

so no ps3 does not lack ram the ps3 lacks educated people like carmack who has to hire people...

i mean hes just an old school programmer the thing he knows is how to program for early 80 pcs looks at his engine its nothing more then a souped up motorstorm engine... thats why he complained about multi processors he cant keep up

here carmack get yourself educated and move on dont stay in the early 80s...

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

besides ps3 does not use 96 mb of ram anymore god where is his head

legalize3

XDR RAM = Very high latencys , which takes away its greatness..... sorry ... clockspeed isnt everything.

same can be said about xbox360 ram

high ram slow clockspeed which takes away its greatness

I agree, both systems suck with RAM, I find it hilarious that they both skimped on a major part of a gaming system :lol:

Carmack is a freaking programmer ffs.

Im sure he knows the technical aspects of either console, moreso than most people on any gaming forum.

[QUOTE="legalize3"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="legalize3"]

Meu2k7

XDR RAM = Very high latencys , which takes away its greatness..... sorry ... clockspeed isnt everything.

same can be said about xbox360 ram

high ram slow clockspeed which takes away its greatness

I agree, both systems suck with RAM, I find it hilarious that they both skimped on a major part of a gaming system :lol:

I own a PS3 and I dont care :|Heil68

Actually TC himself ruins his own thread. One didnt seem to know the difference between video and system ram, before the concoction of this thread.... Or when he bothered to use google.

[QUOTE="legalize3"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

The PS3s memory.

Seriously I can hack the whole DVD9 disk switching an no HDD caching, but seriously 256mb system ram, and 96 XMB useage... Thats a joke.

skrat_01

Ps3 HAS 512 MB RAM

96 mb usage can be LOWERED WHEN OPTIMIZING THE OS...

It has 256mb VIDEO RAM

I thought i made it clear i was stating system ram. Honestly :roll:

And the OS is still yet to be optimised properly.........

Carmack is a freaking programmer ffs.

Im sure he knows the technical aspects of either console, moreso than most people on any gaming forum.

skrat_01

thats why he needs to hire people to program for cell

hes just an old school programmer a guy who cant keep up anymore with newer technology..

Actually TC himself ruins his own thread. One didnt seem to know the difference between video and system ram, before the concoction of this thread.... Or when he bothered to use google.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="legalize3"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

The PS3s memory.

Seriously I can hack the whole DVD9 disk switching an no HDD caching, but seriously 256mb system ram, and 96 XMB useage... Thats a joke.

skrat_01

Ps3 HAS 512 MB RAM

96 mb usage can be LOWERED WHEN OPTIMIZING THE OS...

It has 256mb VIDEO RAM

I thought i made it clear i was stating system ram. Honestly :roll:

And the OS is still yet to be optimised properly.........

i do know more then you thats for sure

when the gpu touches the ram in xbox360 the cpu cant

on ps3 everything is streamlined both can tough the ram at any given time

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Actually TC himself ruins his own thread. One didnt seem to know the difference between video and system ram, before the concoction of this thread.... Or when he bothered to use google.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="legalize3"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

The PS3s memory.

Seriously I can hack the whole DVD9 disk switching an no HDD caching, but seriously 256mb system ram, and 96 XMB useage... Thats a joke.

legalize3

Ps3 HAS 512 MB RAM

96 mb usage can be LOWERED WHEN OPTIMIZING THE OS...

It has 256mb VIDEO RAM

I thought i made it clear i was stating system ram. Honestly :roll:

And the OS is still yet to be optimised properly.........

i do know more then you thats for sure

when the gpu touches the ram in xbox360 the cpu cant

on ps3 everything is streamlined both can tough the ram at any given time

Right. :|

If your going to make bogus statements at least provide a link.

Just like announcing "Ps3 HAS 512 MB RAM" in your other comment.

Dont argue with the cat! The PS3 does need RAM!

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Carmack is a freaking programmer ffs.

Im sure he knows the technical aspects of either console, moreso than most people on any gaming forum.

legalize3

thats why he needs to hire people to program for cell

hes just an old school programmer a guy who cant keep up anymore with newer technology..

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Carmack is a freaking programmer ffs.

Im sure he knows the technical aspects of either console, moreso than most people on any gaming forum.

legalize3

thats why he needs to hire people to program for cell

hes just an old school programmer a guy who cant keep up anymore with newer technology..

Most programmers in industry are hired via there backgrounds in languages and platforms they work with, it isn't clean cut to say you can just hire any joe programmer now days cause there are very specific requirements even in all aspects of the industry when getting people for the job.

As a software engineer i know this little thing as a fact, you hire based on what you need and not just on a one, two, three principal. He isn't a old school programmer, theres no such thing, coding is coding weather it be now or back in the 40s mate its next to all the same it just follows different understandings.

To say hes just an "old school" programmer is more of a compliment then an insult btw cause you only getting better with age when it comes to understanding programming cause your able to grasp new ideas and concepts is much faster then normal and cause of the time difference you are able to establish and execute code base much faster.

To even imply that hes some washed up programmer from the 80s that doesn't understand things actually just proves how stupid you are i'm afraid, you know i may be modded for that but its true, you have no idea what you've said and have just spouted out something thats popped into your head without stepping back to understand everything first, basically your just a fanboy.

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="Shusty_lives"]Still Carmack said the PS3 is the most powerful.Shusty_lives

"Theoretically" more powerful, actually. Then again, he also called it the "lowest common denominator"...

No worries, I have plenty of other developers that said PS3 is more powerful without the theoretically hold. How many developers you know saying otherwise? link if you have them.

And the multiplatform games sure do show it, don't they? Ecspecially FEAR. :lol:

yeah, it lacks games. x_boyfriend

:lol:

Too bad it doesn't lack dust

[QUOTE="steve17989"]Bu..Bu..Bu..teh ps3 has lotz of ram!!!!!11!!!:cry::cry:
wagexslave

wow, i'm really tired of these kinds of posts.

Oh, nevermind posts like that. It is just the typical response from someone who is unable to refute the topic in question.

From a PC stand point gaming wise, you usually build in importance GPU then RAM/CPU. RAM and CPU are about equal in importance but I give an edge to RAM as you can get more benifit, budget wise, from your system by downgrading $200 dollars in a cpu and doubling your RAM.

It is a common mistake for many "at home" PC builders to bottleneck there system with a subpar GPU versus the rest of a system. Just think of it in this way, your CPU finishes its calculations and sends it to the GPU, but now has to wait on the GPU to process its tasks before the CPU can proceed, so it either buffers information or takes a 5 microsecond coffee break.

While the Cell is an interesting idea and the PS3 definetly impressive, Sony made two major mistakes with their implementation. One, they bottle necked the Cell with their GPU, which is compounded by the lack of accessable RAM to buffer information. So yeah, you got an amazing CPU with some impressive specs, but you can never show it save in running anything that isn't graphic intensive. How they figured that with a game system, I do not know.

Secondly, if you make something "revolutionary" as they call it, you BETTER have a crack team of trainers to help out developers to understand this technology. In reality we don't know the specifics of Sony's training programs to help people understand the new yet extremely different programming schemes. However, from the "whining and quibbling" we've seen of late, I think Sony needs to ste up to the bar more often.

All in all, its a good system but I fear that this system will not last 10 years, especially how fast technology is changing. Oh, and I don't think the 360/WII will either;) If you have them, enjoy them here and now, and stop worrying about specifics/problems that belong to a developers forum.

in short

the more cell u use the lessram you need + the Xdrram is 12x faster then your typical desktop ram

so no ps3 does not lack ram the ps3 lacks educated people like carmack who has to hire people...

i mean hes just an old school programmer the thing he knows is how to program for early 80 pcs looks at his engine its nothing more then a souped up motorstorm engine... thats why he complained about multi processors he cant keep up

here carmack get yourself educated and move on dont stay in the early 80s...

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

besides ps3 does not use 96 mb of ram anymore god where is his head

legalize3

so no ps3 does not lack ram the ps3 lacks educated people like carmack who has to hire people...

i mean hes just an old school programmer the thing he knows is how to program for early 80 pcs looks at his engine its nothing more then a souped up motorstorm engine... thats why he complained about multi processors he cant keep up

here carmack get yourself educated and move on dont stay in the early 80s...legalize3

Wow, attacking one of the best programmers currently in the gaming scene. How smart of you.

I take it you aren't having any RAM problems in the PS3 games you are making?

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Of course it lacks RAM, at least if you mean lacks in comparison to the 360. There is no doubt about it. Sheesh. This is so obvious that it doesn't need a new thread.

One has 512 unified memory and one does not. One has an extra 10MB embedded eDRAM and one does not. One uses less O/S memory, and one uses a lot more. Only fanboys refuse to acknowledge that the 360 GPU is better than the PS3 GPU. That is the objective truth.

Now, whether the overall PS3 system configuration can overcome the RAM/GPU shortcomings is another story. Perhaps so. But so far, the penalty seems to be an overall performance that is no better than the 360 and more effort is required to get there. Sony fans live in the future with 'the potential'. MS fans live in the now.

In any case, Sony gimped the Cell by opting for a relatively weak GPU. Seriously, which would you rather have?

1. PS3 as is

2. Xbox360 as is

3. PS3 Cell CPU combined with the 360 Xenos GPU.

legalize3

key featue is cell does not need alot ram once your game is optimized with cell in mind.. cell does things fast nothing have to be stored in the ram for a long time

carmack is a guy who built his game around the gpu the pc way of thinking ps3 is different you need to built with cpucell in mind this is why he needs to hire someone this is why he does not like multi core cpus this is why his engine lacks next gen..

see the linux distro on ps3 runs smooth with only the cell and 265 mb lets do the same on xbox360 only cpu anmd 265 mb it will blow up...

[QUOTE="Shusty_lives"]Still Carmack said the PS3 is the most powerful.Planeforger

"Theoretically" more powerful, actually. Then again, he also called it the "lowest common denominator"...

So,I'll assume he is god for you??Because everythig he said makes u believe him right?

[QUOTE="cronus233"]I belive that carmack said that "the ps3 reserves 64 MB for the OS and the Xbox 360 reserves 32 MB for its OS" which is true btw. That is what he meant by "the Ps3 lacks ram".kodex1717

To the OP: Do you even know how a computer works?

Wrong.

Seeing as all we have to go off of is SDK 1.6, no ones sure other than developers as to how many further optimizations have been made past SDK 1.6, seeing as the current PS3 SDK is either 1.7 or 1.8(not sure). And as of SDK 1.6, they lowered the usage on certain OS features - and will continue to on others.

http://www.innerbits.com/blog/2007/05/09/ps3-memory-footprint/

And another thing you should realize, the PS3 OS is setup around memory containers - meaning developers can choose which features they want loaded into Ram. Good thing about this is its flexible, if you have a Single-Player game... obviously you don't need a friends list - that's 24Mb back to the system. So, in most cases I doubt many developers use all the features, such as the PS3 Virtual Keyboard, why use 7Mb on a glorified Vr Keyboard when you can use the normal vector entry for free.

And Sony will keep optimizing this obviously to get it down to more respectable. And as for everyone touting the Unified Memory architecture... who cares, in most situations you'll have 50/50 splits between the needs for memory. And if the RSX needs to access the XDR, it can... but with penalties(I don't know what it all entails)in performance. And these topics are kinda pointless to being with, if the PS3 was lacking in terms of visuals... I could see there being some need for concern, but this isn't the case.

MODS LOCK THIS TOPIC!xX0LDSCH00LXx

Would probably be best - but, you guys should stop spreading FUD. The OS originally was at 96Meg usage which was dropped down to 84Meg max usage as of SDK 1.6, and that's if all OS features are active(except ingame web browsing, but who needs that) - the OS will continue to be streamlined with future SDKs, don't you fanbois worry your little heads off.