Resident Evil: The franchise with a huge divide

It seems the developers, the critics, and the fans are all split on what RE should be.

There is the action oriented side of RE which gave RE4 a face lift and then was pushed so hard in RE5 that is was its biggest downfall. There is the horror aficionados who want a bottle neck on controls and the combat for better elements of scareware.

Both groups constantly clash. I think the direction of RE is something even Capcom is scratching their head about.

My personal belief is to split the series up. The main series is locked where it is. RE6 will probably be an expansion of RE5 mechanics pushing more and more action, adding more random monsters and less zombies, and more multiplayer features.

SO my idea would be for another RE game developed by a smaller team with more veterans and pedigree that really utilizes horror in a way that has been deprived from our industry for awhile now. Look at this to get a better idea of what I am talking about with horror games. This RE game should be more stylized, darker environments, smaller environments. It should be utter agony to have to walk down a dark corridor. There should be zombies. We do not need all the crazy monsters that RE5 has brought and we don't need every animal becoming a zombie. (Part of the reason zombies are scary and interesting is that they resemble human beings and that reminder goes out the window when you have crow zombie and zombie pooch) So there should be different zombies but within reason.

In doing this the need for horrible spin offs that are rail shooters can go in the trash. RE games have long dev cycles so one wave will be hollywood RE and the other will be art house.

I think this is a solution to a dilemma that began with the series ever since RE4.

IMO (don't flame please :P ) RE 4 was one of the best things to happen to the franchise (and gaming). It got me into the RE series. I seriously hope they don't go back to the design of their old games. I'd be happy if they mixed the best of the classic RE gameplay (horror elements) with the finesse and polish of RE 4 so that the game would be modern and not archaic in design.

The controls need overhauling though... A lot!

Apparently RE Revalations for the 3DS is the scariest game ever but it looks like it still follows that same action shooter formula.

IMO (don't flame please :P ) RE 4 was one of the best things to happen to the franchise (and gaming). It got me into the RE series. I seriously hope they don't go back to the design of their old games. I'd be happy if they mixed the best of the classic RE gameplay (horror elements) with the finesse and polish of RE 4 so that the game would be modern and not archaic in design.

The controls need overhauling though... A lot!

fend_oblivion

I agree with everything you have just said, maybe except the animals part, the crow and the dogs and even the giant croc of RE2 are just icons of the series as they gave some of the most memorable parts of the series.

I enjoy both style but I'm kind of sad the old RE is dead, I would buy both games.

Action = sales.
Horror = niche.

That's how it is, now I think we need to go give Amnesia a Hug, let alone the Silent Hill reboot.

Personally I thought Resi 4 an amazing balance of scares and action, while not necessarily horror as a strength; Resi 5's action focus certainly didn't please me.

Want the uncomfterable truth of things?

Well.

Problem is Resi has *always* had a personality crisis when it comes to actual horror.

Older Resi games depended on clever scares and control schemes to build a sense of panic; then factoring in design aspects such as weapon limitations.
It was never really proper horror, rather a blend between scares and adventure; with some akward action for good measure.

Now Silent Hill on the other hand for most of the part has had horror as a core strength not necessisarly scares.

Problem is Resi is in a position now that it was when the series began stagnating - which has been quick mind you.
As a game based on scares it isn't that good.
As a game based on action it isn't that good, let alone one on coop.

So what the designers have to do is take an original direction, like with Resi 4, sweeping up the aspects that made the IP popular and memorable in the first place.

This doesn't mean a 'horror focus' that wouldn't be Resident Evil, but perhaps something that still delivers scares and the thrill of those scares over blasting away zombies.

/rant.

I would like to take a moment and point out how Resident Evil 4 gets a lot of love, which while I don't like the game much, I can understand. Now in that regard, why is it that Vanquish gets ignored so much? Its a game by the same guy who did Resident Evil 4, yet on stuff like gfaqs poll for october releases, it doesn't get mentioned. Kotaku october releases, all the big titles have images and big long descriptions, then all the small ones get like a sentance blurb, Vanquish didn't even get its own, it got one in the middle of another game's blurb, and it said "from the creator of devil may cry" and its like, I hate you. I swear some background force is trying to make the game fail, I'm going to assume inafune is the mastermind because hes mad someone makes much better games than him. :o110million

Those who say Horror doesn't sell don't know WTF they are talking about:

01. Street Fighter II (released June 1992, SNES, 6,300,000 units sold)
02. Resident Evil 2 (January 1998, PS, 4,960,000)
03. Street Fighter II Turbo (July 1993, SNES, 4,100,000)
04. Resident Evil 3 Nemesis (September 1999, PS, 3,500,000)
05. Resident Evil (March 1996, PS, 2,750,000)
06. Dino Crisis (July 1999, PS, 2,400,000)
07. Devil May Cry 4 (January 2008, PS3, Xbox 360, 2,300,000)
08. Devil May Cry (August 2001, PS2, 2,160,000)
09. Monster Hunter Freedom 2 (February 2007, PSP, 2,150,000)
10. Onimusha: Warlords, (January 2001, PS2, 2,020,000)
11. Resident Evil 4, (December 2005, PS2, 2,000,000)
12. Super Street Fighter II (June 2006, 1994, SNES, 2,000,000)
13. Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny, (March 2003, PS2, 1,990,000)
14. Aladdin (November 1993, SNES, 1,750,000)
15. Devil May Cry 2 (January 2003, PS2, 1,700,000)
16. Duck Tales, (January 1990, NES, 1,670,000)
17. Street Fighter II' Plus (September 1993, GN, 1,650,000)
18. Ghosts'n Goblins (June 1986, NES, 1,640,000)
19. Resident Evil 4 (January 2005, GC, 1,600,000)
20. Onimusha 3: Demon siege (February 2004, PS2, 1,520,000)
21. Mega Man 2 (December 1988, NES, 1,510,000)
22. Lost Planet Extreme Condition (December 2006, Xbox 360, 1,500,000)
23. Final Fight (December 1990, SNES, 1,480,000)
24. Resident Evil Outbreak (December 2003, PS2, 1,450,000)
25. Duck Tales (September 1990, GB, 1,430,000)
26. Resident Evil Code Veronica X (March 2001, PS2, 1,400,000)
27. Dead Rising (August 2006, Xbox 360, 1,400,000)
28. Resident Evil (March 2002, GC, 1,350,000)
29. Mega man Battle Network 4 (December 2003, GBA, 1,350,000)
30. Devil May Cry 3 (February 2005, PS2, 1,300,000)
31. Resident Evil 0 (November 2002, GC, 1,250,000)
32. Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition (May 2007, Wii, 1,250,000)
33. Magical Quest Starring Mickey (November 1992, SNES, 1,210,000)
34. Resident Evil DC Dual Shock (August 1998, PS, 1,200,000)
35. Chip'n Dale Rescue Rangers (June 1990, NES, 1,200,000)
36. Dino Crisis 2 (September 2000, PS, 1,190,000)
37. Mega Man X (December 1993, SNES, 1,160,000)
38. Monster Hunter Freedom (December 2005, PSP, 1,150,000)
39. Resident Evil Code Veronica (February 2000, DC, 1,140,000)
40. Commando (September 1986, NES, 1,140,000)
41. Resident Evil Director's Cut (September 1997, PS, 1,130,000)
42. Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts (October 1991, SNES, 1,090,000)
43. Mega Man 3 (September 1990, NES, 1,080,000)
44. Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (November 2007, Wii, 1,050,000)
45. Final Fight 2 (May 1993, SNES, 1,030,000)
46. Street Fighter Alpha 3 (December 1998, PS, 1,000,000)

Those who say Horror doesn't sell don't know WTF they are talking about:

Shinobi7777

So... you mean like RE: Revelations and RE: The Mercenaries on the 3DS?

Personally while I think the old Resi games had superior survival mechanics(limited ammo, limited supplies, few save points, etc, etc) it relied to heavily on restrictive game design to be a "horror game". It was never, ever, not even close, not by any stretch of the imagination even in the same league as Silent Hill in terms of a horror game. Good atmosphere, some ugly monsters, but it was so hamfisted, cheesy that you really could never take RE seriously.

Re4 bastardizes one of the best aspects of the game(the survival elements I like were all but gone in RE 4), but it is the only time a franchise has essentially gone into a different genre(from survival horror to third person action)and it SPANKED everything in its path. It was legit superior to everything in that genre when it came out, and it still sets a high bar for great boss battles, amazing pacing, and some of the most glorious level design in gaming. It's still also the only RE game that is actually still fun to play. Re1 is almost only enjoyable for the awful but awesome voice acting(haven't played REmake), RE2/3 are fossils at this point, and Code Veronica is tolerable, but nothing really worth enjoying. RE4 though? top notch in the game play department, and all kinds of replayable. Plus those boss fights were amazing. Oh and enough cheese to its writing to make it that much more awesome.

Personally the best horror stuff that's been coming out lately is Penumbra and Amnesia.

[QUOTE="Shinobi7777"]

Those who say Horror doesn't sell don't know WTF they are talking about:

skrat_01

It's mainly because of Capcom's move to Nintendo which just sets them backwards with both the PS cmmty but also because the GC fanbase was mainly people that are 5-16(not really RE's fanbase).

I'm a huge RE fan(the first 3 mainly) and I was pissed too and decided not to get RE4...I did get RE: Code Veronica cause that's more in the spirit of RE.

I think capcom should just take the route of RE: Code Veronica when it comes to horror, story-telling, music(something Silent Hill 1-2-3 excel at for example), camera movement,...etc.

When they went the "fixed" camera way a-la action games in RE4 the game just lost its soul IMO...Great game(I finished it on PC) but not really a RE game.

Either way as long as u market ur games properly they should sell well, especially for a known franchise like RE(the movies sell well enough...which will bring new crowds to the game).

They also need to fix the holes in the story. A prequel to RE4 wouldn't be a bad idea. *Spoiler* I still don't get what happened from RE3's destruction of Racoon City to RE4's kidnapping of the president's girl...And what happened to Leon and Claire after RE2? */Spoiler*

Personally while I think the old Resi games had superior survival mechanics(limited ammo, limited supplies, few save points, etc, etc) it relied to heavily on restrictive game design to be a "horror game". It was never, ever, not even close, not by any stretch of the imagination even in the same league as Silent Hill in terms of a horror game. Good atmosphere, some ugly monsters, but it was so hamfisted, cheesy that you really could never take RE seriously.

Re4 bastardizes one of the best aspects of the game(the survival elements I like were all but gone in RE 4), but it is the only time a franchise has essentially gone into a different genre(from survival horror to third person action)and it SPANKED everything in its path. It was legit superior to everything in that genre when it came out, and it still sets a high bar for great boss battles, amazing pacing, and some of the most glorious level design in gaming. It's still also the only RE game that is actually still fun to play. Re1 is almost only enjoyable for the awful but awesome voice acting(haven't played REmake), RE2/3 are fossils at this point, and Code Veronica is tolerable, but nothing really worth enjoying. RE4 though? top notch in the game play department, and all kinds of replayable. Plus those boss fights were amazing. Oh and enough cheese to its writing to make it that much more awesome.

Personally the best horror stuff that's been coming out lately is Penumbra and Amnesia.

jg4xchamp

Money money money. Why would a company want niche if they can pull in better revenues and profits from the mainstream. alextherussian

RE2 is the best selling game in the franchise :/

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]

Personally while I think the old Resi games had superior survival mechanics(limited ammo, limited supplies, few save points, etc, etc) it relied to heavily on restrictive game design to be a "horror game". It was never, ever, not even close, not by any stretch of the imagination even in the same league as Silent Hill in terms of a horror game. Good atmosphere, some ugly monsters, but it was so hamfisted, cheesy that you really could never take RE seriously.

Re4 bastardizes one of the best aspects of the game(the survival elements I like were all but gone in RE 4), but it is the only time a franchise has essentially gone into a different genre(from survival horror to third person action)and it SPANKED everything in its path. It was legit superior to everything in that genre when it came out, and it still sets a high bar for great boss battles, amazing pacing, and some of the most glorious level design in gaming. It's still also the only RE game that is actually still fun to play. Re1 is almost only enjoyable for the awful but awesome voice acting(haven't played REmake), RE2/3 are fossils at this point, and Code Veronica is tolerable, but nothing really worth enjoying. RE4 though? top notch in the game play department, and all kinds of replayable. Plus those boss fights were amazing. Oh and enough cheese to its writing to make it that much more awesome.

Personally the best horror stuff that's been coming out lately is Penumbra and Amnesia.

Shinobi7777

What about the people who like it all.

And as slaped by champ i'm going to be for this.

I really enjoyed the RC story line, and what every main title gamed offered.

I think what needs to happen is a team needs to sit down and learn how to go back to the survival horror aspect without making it too niche.

It's very doable, but you have to learn how to bring new people in while keeping the current fans enticed. i dunno maybe it's just too early for me to be thinking.

[QUOTE="alextherussian"]Money money money. Why would a company want niche if they can pull in better revenues and profits from the mainstream. Shinobi7777

RE2 is the best selling game in the franchise :/

..

What about the people who like it all.

And as slaped by champ i'm going to be for this.

I really enjoyed the RC story line, and what every main title gamed offered.

I think what needs to happen is a team needs to sit down and learn how to go back to the survival horror aspect without making it too niche.

It's very doable, but you have to learn how to bring new people in while keeping the current fans enticed. i dunno maybe it's just too early for me to be thinking.

Animal-Mother

I want the old Resident Evil formula with the fixed camera. I like a cinematic feel and a strong focus on story and exploration. Ive never played a Resident Evil game for more than 2 hours and now that I want to, I cant get into it.

I dont like how with the new formula, random enemies are just dropped onto the level and come at you in waves. Seems very repetitive and most importantly cheap. And theyre no longer zombies.

To the TC, can you explain what RE5 did to ruin the formula RE4 started? I can see how both of them can be considered great but I cant see the difference between them since I havent spent much time playing them.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"]

What about the people who like it all.

And as slaped by champ i'm going to be for this.

I really enjoyed the RC story line, and what every main title gamed offered.

I think what needs to happen is a team needs to sit down and learn how to go back to the survival horror aspect without making it too niche.

It's very doable, but you have to learn how to bring new people in while keeping the current fans enticed. i dunno maybe it's just too early for me to be thinking.

jg4xchamp

Re1 is almost only enjoyable for the awful but awesome voice acting(haven't played REmake)

jg4xchamp

The Voice...Acting...

Wesker : This is perfection!!

Chris : hahahakakahakahkahakhakhahakwakkwakakwakwwakawkakw

Wesker : huh? Chris? *in innocent voice* Stop it.

:lol:

That game makes me cry with tears of happiness :lol:

thats Capcoms fault they took the game and gimped it, made it stupid, took it as far away from survival horror with 4 and 5 as they could the games didn't sell because they were good, they sold because they were multiplat, and because they rode the resident evil name.

I will never like RE4 or 5, the last good RE game for me was RE0 and conversly the REmake for gamecube. then there is the byproduct that they killed my favorite game franchise book series the RE series...by doing what they did with 4, and 5 telling much of nothing that happend between the games changing how umbrella fell and such they completely killed SD perry's storyline. which I could all most hate Capcom for doing to SR perry.

Ok so maybe now looking back at all the old RE games, it looks like their horror mechanics were derived from camera and control limitations, but that was not everything. The suspense behind moving down certain hallways, opening unknown doors, and hearing moaning from a zombie are all elements of horror.

RE did what it had to based on limited technology to show atmosphere. That is why I stress that now the horror could be tens times more effective, but for some reason the genre is stagnant.

Capcom can easily use the tech we have now to make intense survival horror sequences but instead they use it for punching boulders and mammary glands :roll:

Anyone remember that RE 5 was gonna have Chris having blurred vision if he stood out in the sun too much and that the zombies would be super fast?

Capcom can easily use the tech we have now to make intense survival horror sequences but instead they use it for punching boulders and mammary glands :roll:

Anyone remember that RE 5 was gonna have Chris having blurred vision if he stood out in the sun too much and that the zombies would be super fast?

fend_oblivion

Yeah I remember that one. They also had a version with Zombies but of course they canned it :(.

I wonder how longs its been since any of these fans actually PLAYED any of the older ones, then maybe they would notice the focus on combat and extreme lack of puzzles.

Thgen the puzzles that actually are there (and mainly only in RE3/CV) are pretty easy.

The only RE game that is even remotley how people seem to remember it is RE, everything else is very combat heavy.

Yeah I remember that one. They also had a version with Zombies but of course they canned it :(.

KrazyKev26

:(

RE 5 was rushed to completion... Last minute co-op addition too. It'd have been better had they not focused on co-op. RE is more of a single player experience though co-op was a good addition to Mercenaries.

thats Capcoms fault they took the game and gimped it, made it stupid, took it as far away from survival horror with 4 and 5 as they could the games didn't sell because they were good, they sold because they were multiplat, and because they rode the resident evil name.

I will never like RE4 or 5, the last good RE game for me was RE0 and conversly the REmake for gamecube. then there is the byproduct that they killed my favorite game franchise book series the RE series...by doing what they did with 4, and 5 telling much of nothing that happend between the games changing how umbrella fell and such they completely killed SD perry's storyline. which I could all most hate Capcom for doing to SR perry.

WilliamRLBaker

Hate to break this to you, but the only real difference between old RE and new RE is the camera, the fact that you can actually aim, and getting ammo off enemies cause you actually need it, unlike in the old ones where you could have a stack of 100 shells laying around.

[QUOTE="KrazyKev26"]

Yeah I remember that one. They also had a version with Zombies but of course they canned it :(.

fend_oblivion

:(

RE 5 was rushed to completion... Last minute co-op addition too. It'd have been better had they not focused on co-op. RE is more of a single player experience though co-op was a good addition to Mercenaries.

RE is whatever the maker want it to be, and they wanted it to be a co-op game, if someone plays a co-op game solo well thats there problem.

[QUOTE="KrazyKev26"]

Yeah I remember that one. They also had a version with Zombies but of course they canned it :(.

fend_oblivion

:(

RE 5 was rushed to completion... Last minute co-op addition too. It'd have been better had they not focused on co-op. RE is more of a single player experience though co-op would have been perfect for Mercenaries.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats Capcoms fault they took the game and gimped it, made it stupid, took it as far away from survival horror with 4 and 5 as they could the games didn't sell because they were good, they sold because they were multiplat, and because they rode the resident evil name.

I will never like RE4 or 5, the last good RE game for me was RE0 and conversly the REmake for gamecube. then there is the byproduct that they killed my favorite game franchise book series the RE series...by doing what they did with 4, and 5 telling much of nothing that happend between the games changing how umbrella fell and such they completely killed SD perry's storyline. which I could all most hate Capcom for doing to SR perry.

warmaster670

Hate to break this to you, but the only real difference between old RE and new RE is the camera, the fact that you can actually aim, and getting ammo off enemies cause you actually need it, unlike in the old ones where you could have a stack of 100 shells laying around.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]

Re1 is almost only enjoyable for the awful but awesome voice acting(haven't played REmake)

fend_oblivion

The Voice...Acting...

Wesker : This is perfection!!

Chris : hahahakakahakahkahakhakhahakwakkwakakwakwwakawkakw

Wesker : huh? Chris? *in innocent voice* Stop it.

:lol:

That game makes me cry with tears of happiness :lol:

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]

Re1 is almost only enjoyable for the awful but awesome voice acting(haven't played REmake)

Mr_Cumberdale

The Voice...Acting...

Wesker : This is perfection!!

Chris : hahahakakahakahkahakhakhahakwakkwakakwakwwakawkakw

Wesker : huh? Chris? *in innocent voice* Stop it.

:lol:

That game makes me cry with tears of happiness :lol:

I wonder how longs its been since any of these fans actually PLAYED any of the older ones, then maybe they would notice the focus on combat and extreme lack of puzzles.

Thgen the puzzles that actually are there (and mainly only in RE3/CV) are pretty easy.

The only RE game that is even remotley how people seem to remember it is RE, everything else is very combat heavy.

warmaster670

Hate to break this to you, but the only real difference between old RE and new RE is the camera, the fact that you can actually aim, and getting ammo off enemies cause you actually need it, unlike in the old ones where you could have a stack of 100 shells laying around.

You missed a lot of key differences such as non-linear exploration, puzzles, backtracking. You could only stack ammo if you where good at conserving ammo in the first place which not a lot where. It's incredibly easy to conserve ammo in both RE4 and RE5 unless you are trigger happy.

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

[QUOTE="KrazyKev26"]

Yeah I remember that one. They also had a version with Zombies but of course they canned it :(.

warmaster670

:(

RE 5 was rushed to completion... Last minute co-op addition too. It'd have been better had they not focused on co-op. RE is more of a single player experience though co-op was a good addition to Mercenaries.

RE is whatever the maker want it to be, and they wanted it to be a co-op game, if someone plays a co-op game solo well thats there problem.

Sure the developer can make what the hell they want, doesn't mean people are going to like it. The fact that they made it co-op based is a flaw in itself. It's not like the game outright tells you, "oh please play this game in co-op mode or suffer the wrath of terrible AI mechanics.".

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

Hate to break this to you, but the only real difference between old RE and new RE is the camera, the fact that you can actually aim, and getting ammo off enemies cause you actually need it, unlike in the old ones where you could have a stack of 100 shells laying around.

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

[QUOTE="KrazyKev26"]

Yeah I remember that one. They also had a version with Zombies but of course they canned it :(.

warmaster670

:(

RE 5 was rushed to completion... Last minute co-op addition too. It'd have been better had they not focused on co-op. RE is more of a single player experience though co-op was a good addition to Mercenaries.

RE is whatever the maker want it to be, and they wanted it to be a co-op game, if someone plays a co-op game solo well thats there problem.

yeah 2 posters all ready posted it for me, your dead wrong and you missed quite a few things. RE4 and 5 are nothing like the RE's from before and thats a simple fact. Atmosphere, story, characters, gameplay...all different. I would rather watch the resident evil movies then play RE4 or 5...atleast the resident evil movies are about freaking zombies...not super fast, hyper intelligent possesed by a weird alien bug thing from 5000 years in the past like RE4 and 5 are.

I still say till this day REmake for GC is what a RE game should be.

I think RE4 is good, if a bit overrated, but I also think that the older ones are better, and that with todays technology we could have photorealistic fully 3D REs that use the "old" formula w/more advanced camera techniques. Instead of static images, we could have pans and zooms--filmic techniques at drawing emotion out of the player.

I think RE4 is good, if a bit overrated, but I also think that the older ones are better, and that with todays technology we could have photorealistic fully 3D REs that use the "old" formula w/more advanced camera techniques. Instead of static images, we could have pans and zooms--filmic techniques at drawing emotion out of the player.

Heirren

I agree. I'd absolutely love to see a Resi game that uses the brand new tech but stays true to its roots and sticks with it's original design characteristics. RE4 was fun, but it didn't feel anything like Resident Evil. Bring back the days of RE1, 2 and 3 and I'll be one happy survival horror fan!

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]I had a fun time playing RE5. I've seen some old footage of the the original games and they are cheesy as hell. I think the people wanting it to go back to that have the nostalgia of playing it when they were children and their standards weren't fully developed yet. lbjkurono23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqttuScmUY