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..........I got wood..............[QUOTE="jettpack"]
RESIDENT LEFT 4 SILENT RISING DEAD EVIL SPACE HILL
It will be the ultimate survival horror game ever. a combination of all those wonderful games we know and love. Can you imagine it? 4 player survival horror coop with claire redfield, Francis, Isaac, and the silent hill guy, with katanas, lawn mowers and 100000s of zombies. Clash of the titans, could be so wonderfully terrifying.
your thoughts?
xboxdevil
lol
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
[QUOTE="jettpack"]
Both Left 4 Dead and Deadspace Innovated on the survival horror genres. I mean Left 4 Dead's setting is generic but that was on purpose. I mean valve was trying to capture that pulp horror zombie flick vibe. And Deadspace, was FULL of atmosphere, and while it wasnt a DRASTIC change to the survival horror genre, it innovated on tons and tons of little things, like the strategic dismemberment.Y our right, Clock tower and Fatal frame were awesome, but their mechanics dont translate very well into modern survival horror games.
jettpack
To me deadspace is not survival horror in the slightest. It is action horror. I feel very very little atmosphere in that game and little pacing at all. It's not a bad game at all, it is fun, but it feels like it is trying way too hard and the "horror" feels forced. I also don't feel much survival in it due to the weapons being overpowered and ammo in ample supply. I don't feel a true survival horror game has existed since the PS2 days. And Left 4 Dead innovated the survival horror genre the same way the Sims innovated the FPS genre. As in, it didn't.
And why doesn't Fatal frame or clock tower translate to modern games? Not enough pew pew?
I personally prefer creepy horror with more mundane enemies that are scary via atmosphere to games with enemies that jump out of walls with giant spikes in audio and going "RAAAAAARGH!". I don't equate startles to scares.
Okay, let me re-state some of what i said. You are right, there hasnt been a big Traditional survial horror game since the PS2, I guess im using that term to loosely. What i mean is Just General Horror, be it action horror, survival horror, etc. Sorry about the vagueness, i used the term a bit to generally.
As for Deadspace, here what we disagree on is probably for the most part subjective and opinion based. I really Liked deadspace and found it to be full of atmosphere, and dread. I was definately scared to go down certain dark corridores. I dont exactly know what you mean when you say the horror felt forced, It felt like an integral part of the experience to me. As for the survival aspect, i mean yeah, there was an abundance of ammo but i didnt feel that the guns were over powered and anyway you are trying to SURVIVE and you will die alot, so i think that qualifies as horror, even if it is very action orriented.
I really disagree with you about left 4 Dead. I think that game was FULL of innovation. Whether or not that was innovation on the Survival horror genre is another matter. Left 4 Dead definately qualifies as an FPS first and formost, and its definately a game about survival, i mean thats the whole point, you just have to survive. But even though Left 4 Dead can at times be startling and spooky (i.e. the witch, especially on expert) and is almost always exillerating, its not particularly scary or terrifying, so its not really a a horror, its more of a First person Zombie Survival Shooter with Horror elements. Even so, i still think it fits under the extremely general catagory we are discussing, and I think that its adaptive AI/replayability, first person perspective, Online Co-op, survival objective gameplay and at least parts of its fast paced gameplay all contribute really good additions to the Survival/Action Horror Genre.
On the subject of clock tower:
While clock tower is very scary, and was able to succeed the limitations of the technology of its time, i feel that because of the power of current gen hardware, the gameplay, atmosphere and storytelling possibilities have increased to a degree that was un-attainable at the time clock-tower was created. Better graphics and more powerful systems obviously do not directly result in better or scarrier games, but i think that does definately increase the opportunities of what the developers have when making titles. Basically it think that there is so much more that you can do with hardware now, that the point an click mechanics of Clock-tower might feel outdated. Its still really terrifying, and the idea of picking a hiding spot is really cool, i just feel the genre can do more now. So to answer your question, No its not that there isnt enough "pew, pew" or shooting.
As of fatal frame:
I take back what i said about fatal frame. Specifically in regard Fatal Frame 2. The game isnt that outdated yet and has some great, great, terrifying ideas in it. Its just so different from games like resident evil or deadspace that it seems like it would be difficult to combine integrate the two. They are just such different aethetics, it really comes down to taste.
When I say it felt forced I guess I just mean like it was trying too hard. Like I said before I never felt any dread, it just would shoot a monster out of a wall and go "OOGA BOOGA!". The monsters are...well...monstrous and feel like they're trying to be scary. Compared to Fatal frame where the enemies were looked alot like people but were very scary. The only deaths I've really gotten were 1. from those horrendously overpowered tiny spider things that jump on you and drain all your health in a second and 2. from silly one hit kill things. Like those necromorphs who are stuck to walls and shoot other necromorphs out of their stomach. get too close and you're insta killed even with full health and the first time I saw no warning that this would happen.
And as for overpowered weapons? One word: Ripper. That weapon, once I got it, could disable numerous enemies at once and cut them into itty bitty pieces with no risk to myself. The only times it was ineffective were against enemies who were at long range. Which were fairly rare.
As for L4D....Sims was pretty innovative too. It wasn't innovative to FPS'. Just as while L4D may of been innovative for FPS', it was not innovative to survival horror. It's not survival horror to me at all, it's an FPS in a B-Horror movie style setting. It is no more survival horror to me than House of the Dead: Overkill. L4D is a great game but to me it isn't survival horror.
Clock Tower 3 (the last one in the series, I believe) did not use point and click. It used analog controls and if a future clock tower was made I'd expect it to use the same new style of controls. The rest of the games style was retained (hiding from a enemy that was invincible and could only be thwarted temporarily by traps). The last clock tower added alot of other things too (such as a boss fight, and a way to defend yourself outside of hiding. Via holy water which would cause an enemy to stop for a second but was in limited quantities and was only really useful to put more space between you and the enemy).
Fatal frame is indeed very different from dead space and RE. I always prefered it because I just found it way more creepy. The ghostly groans of the enemies and their rather terrifying look was quite scary. Unlike alot of the enemies in Deadspace and RE which don't seem human, Fatal frames ghosts felt more human and as such more real and that was scarier to me. They were more human but just as scary.
Oh, and on RE, I don't feel it's been survival horror since RE4 which was anything BUT survival horror.
To me the horror genre just isn't the same and it used to be my favorite genre. I feel alot can be done with the older style of survival horror but it seems it's been replaced with a more pew pewish third person shooter style.
Oh and for some reason I always forget eternal darkness. I'm not sure if I qualify it as survival horror but it was scary in it's own right. It's one of my top favorite games. Too bad the disc no longer works ;(
Ehh?RESIDENT LEFT 4 SILENT RISING DEAD EVIL SPACE HILL
It will be the ultimate survival horror game ever. a combination of all those wonderful games we know and love. Can you imagine it? 4 player survival horror coop with claire redfield, Francis, Isaac, and the silent hill guy, with katanas, lawn mowers and 100000s of zombies. Clash of the titans, could be so wonderfully terrifying.
your thoughts?
jettpack
[QUOTE="jettpack"]
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
To me deadspace is not survival horror in the slightest. It is action horror. I feel very very little atmosphere in that game and little pacing at all. It's not a bad game at all, it is fun, but it feels like it is trying way too hard and the "horror" feels forced. I also don't feel much survival in it due to the weapons being overpowered and ammo in ample supply. I don't feel a true survival horror game has existed since the PS2 days. And Left 4 Dead innovated the survival horror genre the same way the Sims innovated the FPS genre. As in, it didn't.
And why doesn't Fatal frame or clock tower translate to modern games? Not enough pew pew?
I personally prefer creepy horror with more mundane enemies that are scary via atmosphere to games with enemies that jump out of walls with giant spikes in audio and going "RAAAAAARGH!". I don't equate startles to scares.
Pixel-Pirate
Okay, let me re-state some of what i said. You are right, there hasnt been a big Traditional survial horror game since the PS2, I guess im using that term to loosely. What i mean is Just General Horror, be it action horror, survival horror, etc. Sorry about the vagueness, i used the term a bit to generally.
As for Deadspace, here what we disagree on is probably for the most part subjective and opinion based. I really Liked deadspace and found it to be full of atmosphere, and dread. I was definately scared to go down certain dark corridores. I dont exactly know what you mean when you say the horror felt forced, It felt like an integral part of the experience to me. As for the survival aspect, i mean yeah, there was an abundance of ammo but i didnt feel that the guns were over powered and anyway you are trying to SURVIVE and you will die alot, so i think that qualifies as horror, even if it is very action orriented.
I really disagree with you about left 4 Dead. I think that game was FULL of innovation. Whether or not that was innovation on the Survival horror genre is another matter. Left 4 Dead definately qualifies as an FPS first and formost, and its definately a game about survival, i mean thats the whole point, you just have to survive. But even though Left 4 Dead can at times be startling and spooky (i.e. the witch, especially on expert) and is almost always exillerating, its not particularly scary or terrifying, so its not really a a horror, its more of a First person Zombie Survival Shooter with Horror elements. Even so, i still think it fits under the extremely general catagory we are discussing, and I think that its adaptive AI/replayability, first person perspective, Online Co-op, survival objective gameplay and at least parts of its fast paced gameplay all contribute really good additions to the Survival/Action Horror Genre.
On the subject of clock tower:
While clock tower is very scary, and was able to succeed the limitations of the technology of its time, i feel that because of the power of current gen hardware, the gameplay, atmosphere and storytelling possibilities have increased to a degree that was un-attainable at the time clock-tower was created. Better graphics and more powerful systems obviously do not directly result in better or scarrier games, but i think that does definately increase the opportunities of what the developers have when making titles. Basically it think that there is so much more that you can do with hardware now, that the point an click mechanics of Clock-tower might feel outdated. Its still really terrifying, and the idea of picking a hiding spot is really cool, i just feel the genre can do more now. So to answer your question, No its not that there isnt enough "pew, pew" or shooting.
As of fatal frame:
I take back what i said about fatal frame. Specifically in regard Fatal Frame 2. The game isnt that outdated yet and has some great, great, terrifying ideas in it. Its just so different from games like resident evil or deadspace that it seems like it would be difficult to combine integrate the two. They are just such different aethetics, it really comes down to taste.
When I say it felt forced I guess I just mean like it was trying too hard. Like I said before I never felt any dread, it just would shoot a monster out of a wall and go "OOGA BOOGA!". The monsters are...well...monstrous and feel like they're trying to be scary. Compared to Fatal frame where the enemies were looked alot like people but were very scary. The only deaths I've really gotten were 1. from those horrendously overpowered tiny spider things that jump on you and drain all your health in a second and 2. from silly one hit kill things. Like those necromorphs who are stuck to walls and shoot other necromorphs out of their stomach. get too close and you're insta killed even with full health and the first time I saw no warning that this would happen.
And as for overpowered weapons? One word: Ripper. That weapon, once I got it, could disable numerous enemies at once and cut them into itty bitty pieces with no risk to myself. The only times it was ineffective were against enemies who were at long range. Which were fairly rare.
As for L4D....Sims was pretty innovative too. It wasn't innovative to FPS'. Just as while L4D may of been innovative for FPS', it was not innovative to survival horror. It's not survival horror to me at all, it's an FPS in a B-Horror movie style setting. It is no more survival horror to me than House of the Dead: Overkill. L4D is a great game but to me it isn't survival horror.
Clock Tower 3 (the last one in the series, I believe) did not use point and click. It used analog controls and if a future clock tower was made I'd expect it to use the same new style of controls. The rest of the games style was retained (hiding from a enemy that was invincible and could only be thwarted temporarily by traps). The last clock tower added alot of other things too (such as a boss fight, and a way to defend yourself outside of hiding. Via holy water which would cause an enemy to stop for a second but was in limited quantities and was only really useful to put more space between you and the enemy).
Fatal frame is indeed very different from dead space and RE. I always prefered it because I just found it way more creepy. The ghostly groans of the enemies and their rather terrifying look was quite scary. Unlike alot of the enemies in Deadspace and RE which don't seem human, Fatal frames ghosts felt more human and as such more real and that was scarier to me. They were more human but just as scary.
Oh, and on RE, I don't feel it's been survival horror since RE4 which was anything BUT survival horror.
To me the horror genre just isn't the same and it used to be my favorite genre. I feel alot can be done with the older style of survival horror but it seems it's been replaced with a more pew pewish third person shooter style.
Oh and for some reason I always forget eternal darkness. I'm not sure if I qualify it as survival horror but it was scary in it's own right. It's one of my top favorite games. Too bad the disc no longer works ;(
I still disagree with you about DeadSpace, but that really comes down to taste and opinion, i personally felt it was a thrilling and scary horror experience that didnt feel forced at all. I will admit, when playing on the normal difficulty setting some of the guns (like you said, the ripper) begin to feel over powered, especially for the end of the game, But that issue is fixed when playingon the higher difficulty settings, where dying (at least for me) happened more often. I think that Deadspace is just the direction survival horror is going. I know you prefer the more classic survival horror but its evolved since last gen, and the definition of the genre has expanded.
"Left 4 Dead = Sims" that made me LOL, good job.
Yeah, i think we have established that Left 4 Dead is not survival horror, But because of the setting, i included it in this topic. With that said, i still think that some of the innovations in left 4 dead (like the AI director, and feel of the rush for the safe house gameplay) could be applied in very intersting ways to what has become the Horror genre (once again, i use that term in a very broad sense).
I never played clock tower 3, only the first 2. Anyway, i do really like the idea that your only objective is to survive. That idea is something clock tower actually has in common with left 4 dead.
Anyway, I try not to get to specific about genres unless it matters.
Needs a little more Fatal Frame, much scarier than any of those mentioned.
Gxgear
granted. But thats a completely different part of the horror genre. Hard to integrate with those others i mentioned. but yeah, if you could take the atmosphere and scares of fatal frame two, and combine it with gameplay similar to RE or L4D or Deadspace (essentially more action oriented) that would be an accomplishment.
I never played clock tower 3, only the first 2. Anyway, i do really like the idea that your only objective is to survive. That idea is something clock tower actually has in common with left 4 dead.
jettpack
I just liked how you had very little ability to defend yourself in Clock tower. You had to run and hide usually. You can easily blast your way (and generally have to) out of trouble in L4D. Clock Tower 3 was fairly different from CT 1 and 2 since the series was now owned by capcom at this point. Though the game isn't too different (still run and hide, very little way to defend yourself.)
I still like L4D and Deadspace, just not in the same way I like CT and Fatal frame. But CT and Fatal frame are in my top 10 games of all time.
Yes, I still need to purchase them somday.Condemned and Condemned 2 are really intersting takes on the horror genre. really cool first person melee combat.
jettpack
[QUOTE="jettpack"]
I never played clock tower 3, only the first 2. Anyway, i do really like the idea that your only objective is to survive. That idea is something clock tower actually has in common with left 4 dead.
Pixel-Pirate
I just liked how you had very little ability to defend yourself in Clock tower. You had to run and hide usually. You can easily blast your way (and generally have to) out of trouble in L4D. Clock Tower 3 was fairly different from CT 1 and 2 since the series was now owned by capcom at this point. Though the game isn't too different (still run and hide, very little way to defend yourself.)
I still like L4D and Deadspace, just not in the same way I like CT and Fatal frame. But CT and Fatal frame are in my top 10 games of all time.
Yeah i understand. And that sort of run and hide survival gameplay really lends itself to a sense of desperation and fear.
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