Rockstar Has Some Fun With "Eye Of Sauron" Comparison, Won't Comment [

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lcw0810883

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#1 lcw0810883
Member since 2007 • 530 Posts

UPDATE:

Capping off a week during which Rockstar Game's New York team was unfavorably described as an Eye of Sauron overlooking its development studios, the company just posted some new editions to its wallpaper series.

The company entitled the three-image series: "The Eye Is Watching."

Earlier in the week, an anonymous ex-Rockstar employee described to MTV the dynamic between Rockstar's New York headquarters and satellite studios such as Rock Star San Diego, the development studio behind the upcoming Red Dead Redemption. They likened the New York office to "The Eye of Sauron" the watchful presence of the evil overlord in The Lord of the Rings.


Rockstar has had no comment for Kotaku regarding last week's allegations of unfair working conditions at the company. Those complaints were levied a week ago by an anonymous blogger claiming to represent disgruntled wives of overworked Rockstar San Diego employees. They were published on a Gamasutra user blog called "Rockstar Spouse" and were followed by other anonymous complaints that the development studio behind Red Dead Redemption, Rockstar San Diego, was experiencing an unprecedented run of mandatory and unhealthy crunch-time development. Some Internet commenters have countered, saying the Rockstar Spouse complaints pertain to common industry practices that are the price of making video games.

Kotaku sought new comment this morning from Rockstar about the validity of what appeared to be a leaked memo distributed by Rockstar management regarding those allegations. The company has not provided comment on that either.

That week of official public silence makes today's artwork the first public reference — however indirect — by the company to the Rockstar Spouse situation. There's a San Diego hook to the image. The domes in the shot appear to resemble those of the San Onofre nuclear power plant located just outside of San Diego, home city to the developers of Red Dead Redemption.

The wallpapers appeared as part of Rockstar's recurring series of desktop backgrounds available for download on the company' s official site.

IGDA: Regarding Overtime Concerns at Rockstar San Diego [IGDA]

Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees have collected themselves [Gamasutra]

Former Staffer Compares Rockstar NY To The Eye Of Sauron

Regarding the situation at Rockstar San Diego [RockstarWatch]

It seems like Rockstar's problem is piling up in a mess as rumour saying RDR and MP3 are facing problems.

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funsohng

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#2 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
dang no wonder it looked so good.
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SPYDER0416

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#3 SPYDER0416
Member since 2008 • 16736 Posts

It makes sense, only a company that puts so much work into their games can have an almost flawless list of games made from them. Of course for the workers there is something called "unions", which the GTA series appropriately has a lot of... because union is just slang for the mob according to Playboy X.

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topgunmv

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#4 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

Workers should unionise.

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Im_single

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#5 Im_single
Member since 2008 • 5134 Posts
In this type of economy they should be thanking whomever their God may be that they receive 70 hours work weeks, hell you could feed 3 families with that kind of bank, sure they may be worked to the bone but hell, I know people who would kill to work hours like that, probably decent pay on top of that too.
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gamer620

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#6 gamer620
Member since 2004 • 3367 Posts
meh... I remember working 90 hour weeks during submission time on MK vs DCU while at midway.. it was awesome.
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allsystemsphai

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#7 allsystemsphai
Member since 2009 • 142 Posts
Those conditions sound to harsh to be real, i bet even sweat shops dont have such hours.
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allsystemsphai

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#8 allsystemsphai
Member since 2009 • 142 Posts
meh... I remember working 90 hour weeks during submission time on MK vs DCU while at midway.. it was awesome.gamer620
Interesting, what was your position?
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gamer620

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#9 gamer620
Member since 2004 • 3367 Posts

[QUOTE="gamer620"]meh... I remember working 90 hour weeks during submission time on MK vs DCU while at midway.. it was awesome.allsystemsphai
Interesting, what was your position?

Product Analyst. In my opinion, the only reason its harsh is because they probably aren't getting paid for the time. In my case, I was getting paid because we were all hourly. Then again, I also didn't have a family.

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Vandalvideo

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#10 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.
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allsystemsphai

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#11 allsystemsphai
Member since 2009 • 142 Posts

[QUOTE="allsystemsphai"][QUOTE="gamer620"]meh... I remember working 90 hour weeks during submission time on MK vs DCU while at midway.. it was awesome.gamer620

Interesting, what was your position?

Product Analyst. In my opinion, the only reason its harsh is because they probably aren't getting paid for the time. In my case, I was getting paid because we were all hourly. Then again, I also didn't have a family.

Sounds harsh, im guessing you were a tester? Sometimes makes me wonder why people go into the business, how were the hours for most of the development?
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Jared2720

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#12 Jared2720
Member since 2007 • 2200 Posts

Workers should unionise.

topgunmv

Be careful what you wish for.

A similar thing happened with the American automotive industry. When unions formed, employees were enabled to put forth less effort and still keep their jobs. As a result, the quality of American automobiles declined. In Japan, for instance, where labor laws are much different (and where people take more pride in their work), if you don't perform your job to the best of your ability, you're out of work. The consumer wins.

I'm certainly not suggesting that employees of any kind should be mistreated or held to unreasonable standards--quite the opposite; however, according to some of the recent reports, it seems that talk of unions forming in the game industry are circling now. People need to do what they can to protect themselves, but such a union would certainly have a noticeable impact on the quality of games in the future, and probably not for the better.

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bad_fur_day

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#13 bad_fur_day
Member since 2008 • 1988 Posts

Lol, there getting complained at by the man for being to hardcore.

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topgunmv

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#14 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.Vandalvideo

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

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Vandalvideo

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#15 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.topgunmv

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

Of course not, that is why I'm going 200K in debt. :| Viva law?
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topgunmv

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#16 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

Workers should unionise.

Jared2720

Be careful what you wish for.

A similar thing happened with the American automotive industry. When unions formed, employees were enabled to put forth less effort and still keep their jobs. As a result, the quality of American automobiles declined. In Japan, for instance, where labor laws are much different (and where people take more pride in their work), if you don't perform your job to the best of your ability, you're out of work. The consumer wins.

I'm certainly not suggesting that employees of any kind should be mistreated or held to unreasonable standards--quite the opposite; however, according to some of the recent reports, it seems that talk of unions forming in the game industry are circling now. People need to do what they can to protect themselves, but such a union would certainly have a noticeable impact on the quality of games in the future, and probably not for the better.

Poor car quality was a result of management decisions, labor just did what they were told. Don't believe what the lobbyists tell you on television.

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stereointegrity

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#17 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts
i kno exactly where this building is haha its down the street from me
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topgunmv

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#18 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.Vandalvideo

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

Of course not, that is why I'm going 200K in debt. :| Viva law?

I read a study that claimed over the course of a lifetime, all debts considered, the total in pocket earnings of a janitor are greater than those of a doctor. Food for thought.

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stereointegrity

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#19 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.topgunmv

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

san diegos minimum wage is 8.50....thats not even 30k a year.......
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topgunmv

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#20 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.stereointegrity

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

san diegos minimum wage is 8.50....thats not even 30k a year.......

Point being?

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stereointegrity

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#21 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

topgunmv

san diegos minimum wage is 8.50....thats not even 30k a year.......

Point being?

that i agree with u and am no where near willing to work like that
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BattleTurtles

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#22 BattleTurtles
Member since 2009 • 2406 Posts
Red Dead Forever?
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boredy-Mcbored

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#23 boredy-Mcbored
Member since 2007 • 1566 Posts

OMG. I hope when I become a programmer I won't have to pull this off too much. I thought they only did this in crunch time?

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SecretPolice

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#24 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45671 Posts

Whilst I cam empathize with the employees hmm, are they held there against there will ? No must be the answer...Are they free to quit and go look for a better job? Me thinks yes on that one.

Anyway, better for gamers if the people making the game want to be there doing the hard work so get it straightened out RS b/c selfishly :P I want RDR to be what you promised - Awesome !!!

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bad_fur_day

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#25 bad_fur_day
Member since 2008 • 1988 Posts

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Hah, 70 hour work weeks. The legal profession makes that look like dixie land. And that isn't even considered overtime.stereointegrity

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

san diegos minimum wage is 8.50....thats not even 30k a year.......

How do you know how much they make there? Or are you talking about San Diego the citys minimum wage? Proffessinals are usually much more expesive than minimum wage.

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foxhound_fox

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#26 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

70 hour work weeks? There are people out there who are forced to work more than that to make ends meet. If these people don't like the conditions, then they can just leave and find work elsewhere.

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topgunmv

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#27 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

bad_fur_day

san diegos minimum wage is 8.50....thats not even 30k a year.......

How do you know how much they make there? Or are you talking about San Diego the citys minimum wage? Proffessinals are usually much more expesive than minimum wage.

I don't know how much these individuals are making, but there are plenty of instances of professionals being extremely underpaid, especially in the game industry.

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bad_fur_day

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#28 bad_fur_day
Member since 2008 • 1988 Posts

Untill we really know the specifics it's all a bunch of bull. How does 70hr weeks for 200k sound for lead programer, thats what he gets paid that much for.

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rolo107

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#29 rolo107
Member since 2007 • 5469 Posts
In this type of economy they should be thanking whomever their God may be that they receive 70 hours work weeks, hell you could feed 3 families with that kind of bank, sure they may be worked to the bone but hell, I know people who would kill to work hours like that, probably decent pay on top of that too.Im_single
You obviously haven't read much about it. They aren't getting paid for their overtime. Plus, some are getting so depressed that they feel suicidal since they can't protest in fear for their job and I'm sure they need the hours they actually get paid for. But honestly, there is different spheres, and in this sphere this treatment is abhorrent.
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stereointegrity

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#30 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

In some cases these workers make minimum wage. Are you willing to work 70 hour weeks and pull 30k a year?

bad_fur_day

san diegos minimum wage is 8.50....thats not even 30k a year.......

How do you know how much they make there? Or are you talking about San Diego the citys minimum wage? Proffessinals are usually much more expesive than minimum wage.

i honestly dont kno ...i was talking sandiego minimum wages but to live here in SD especially around the area where R* San diego is its expensive beach land....so i hope its atleast 15 to 20 dollars an hour
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foxhound_fox

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#31 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Untill we really know the specifics it's all a bunch of bull. How does 70hr weeks for 200k sound for lead programer, thats what he gets paid that much for.

bad_fur_day


Indeed. A friend of mine works for S2Games and makes over $60K a year... and sleeps very little. When he makes that kind of money, he doesn't care how much sleep he loses.

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mgkennedy5

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#32 mgkennedy5
Member since 2005 • 1501 Posts
That's brutal! No one should have to work a 70 hour week!
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foxhound_fox

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#33 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

That's brutal! No one should have to work a 70 hour week!mgkennedy5

And due to poverty rates in North America... hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are forced to work two or three jobs, for 60-80 hours a week just to make ends meet. These people are in a business that produces luxury items... if they feel they are being treated unfairly, they can just leave and find work elsewhere, because without a union, an employer can almost do whatever they want.

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stereointegrity

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#34 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

[QUOTE="mgkennedy5"]
And due to poverty rates in North America... hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are forced to work two or three jobs, for 60-80 hours a week just to make ends meet. These people are in a business that produces luxury items... if they feel they are being treated unfairly, they can just leave and find work elsewhere, because without a union, an employer can almost do whatever they want.

foxhound_fox

it depends where in america u live for poverty

[QUOTE="bad_fur_day"]

Untill we really know the specifics it's all a bunch of bull. How does 70hr weeks for 200k sound for lead programer, thats what he gets paid that much for.

foxhound_fox


Indeed. A friend of mine works for S2Games and makes over $60K a year... and sleeps very little. When he makes that kind of money, he doesn't care how much sleep he loses.

my pops makes more and only works 40 hours a week....for the work he does and the hours he puts in ur friend should atleast be in the 80+k range...

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Adrian_Cloud

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#35 Adrian_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 7169 Posts
[QUOTE="funsohng"]dang no wonder it looked so good.

lol. theres always a price to pay.
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lcw0810883

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#36 lcw0810883
Member since 2007 • 530 Posts

UPDATE for how Rockstart responds to the allegations....

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#37 danish-death
Member since 2004 • 5314 Posts
Damn. Suddenly I don't feel sad living in (expensive) Denmark having to pay $110 for each game. But atleast we get; good jobs, decent payment, 37 hours work/week AND an union. I doubt there's anyone in Denmark there need to have 2-3 works in order to get it all running
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NeoStar9

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#38 NeoStar9
Member since 2003 • 1761 Posts
In this type of economy they should be thanking whomever their God may be that they receive 70 hours work weeks, hell you could feed 3 families with that kind of bank, sure they may be worked to the bone but hell, I know people who would kill to work hours like that, probably decent pay on top of that too.Im_single
It's that type of attitude that leads people to believing they can get away with exploiting others and makes others allow themselves to be exploited to degrees. It isn't right and I'd dare say it might be illegal as well.
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gamer620

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#39 gamer620
Member since 2004 • 3367 Posts
[QUOTE="gamer620"]

[QUOTE="allsystemsphai"]Interesting, what was your position?allsystemsphai

Product Analyst. In my opinion, the only reason its harsh is because they probably aren't getting paid for the time. In my case, I was getting paid because we were all hourly. Then again, I also didn't have a family.

Sounds harsh, im guessing you were a tester? Sometimes makes me wonder why people go into the business, how were the hours for most of the development?

I remember talking to one of the developers saying that they were working 24/7. But this was like the final week before submission. There are two major crunch times for a developer in my opinion (from my experience at least). That involves a preview build( that will be shown at shows like E3, this is usually repeated for future shows later in the year) and submission (this is the big one, i can see long work weeks lasting about a month around this time, because if the submission date is lost, you risk missing your release date, let alone if you fail submission, the process goes again)
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WilliamRLBaker

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#40 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts
In this type of economy they should be thanking whomever their God may be that they receive 70 hours work weeks, hell you could feed 3 families with that kind of bank, sure they may be worked to the bone but hell, I know people who would kill to work hours like that, probably decent pay on top of that too.Im_single
you could feed 3 families with a 70 hour work week? but how much are they getting paid, if they are getting minimum wage they cant feed no 3 families...work hours mean nothing if your getting paid squat.
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ManicAce

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#41 ManicAce
Member since 2009 • 3267 Posts
I don't know why people call americans lazy cause they sure work some crazy hours over there. I've done some 50h a week and it already feels like your life is slowly being sucked away. This is the friggin 2010...I demand robot servants for all!
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lhughey

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#42 lhughey
Member since 2006 • 4890 Posts
I don't know why people call americans lazy cause they sure work some crazy hours over there. I've done some 50h a week and it already feels like your life is slowly being sucked away. This is the friggin 2010...I demand robot servants for all!ManicAce
I agree. And working lots of overtime (especially when its unpaid) can really screw with the family balance if you have kids.
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Ontain

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#43 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
work 14 hours days you get free dinner (take out chinese?) woot!
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lcw0810883

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#44 lcw0810883
Member since 2007 • 530 Posts

Update for

Rockstar Has Some Fun With "Eye Of Sauron" Comparison, Still Won't Comment