RTS on consoles work! Maybe just as good as a pc!

I know that RTS games will always be better on computers, but recently RTS games on consoles have advanced in leaps to catch up with the PC. But there has always been the problem of the controller, and the amount of people on the battlefield.

if you remember AOE2 on the ps2. It was not too bad. But it was no where near as good as a pc, but it worked.

then we had C&C3 on the 360. This worked very well. I enjoyed it. the menu system was easier to navigate and the graphics and amount that could go on was fantastic.

but these games have always been worse than there pc counterparts, but ubisoft really want to change this.

they have made the game EndWar, built from the ground up on consoles, so that a player can control his army much faster than before, maybe even quicker than can be done on a keyboard. and here it is:

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/03/19/video-a-first-look-at-endwars-gameplay/

its mostly voice commanded, which would ake the game much more immersive plus there is no need for learning what button to press to do certain things, most of it was all common sense. for example when they needed all the troops to enter the battle, all they said was "all units go to delta" and that was it! It could even be quicker than the keyboard.

But there is still the problem of moving around the map, but also with a 1st person perspective, console users will finally be able to play an RTS properly on a console.

what do you think?

I have no idea why c&C wasn't released on wii. the remote and nunchuck seem perfect for the wii

I found the controller to hard to use and gave up on the 360

I have no idea why c&C wasn't released on wii. the remote and nunchuck seem perfect for the wii

I found the controller to hard to use and gave up on the 360

richest_boy

It was alright, but I could never get troops where I needed them quick enough. The missions were to hard so i just did skirmish battles.

the wii would be good with RTS, though it might be hard to be exact with where you are aiming.

This does look like a very good game but this is more of a rtt game than an rts, true rts games like supcom will never work well on consoles, at least until mouse and keyboard support becomes standard.mario_gamer

sorry for being a noob but whats RTT?

[QUOTE="mario_gamer"]This does look like a very good game but this is more of a rtt game than an rts, true rts games like supcom will never work well on consoles, at least until mouse and keyboard support becomes standard.NinjaMunkey01

sorry for being a noob but whats RTT?

real time tactics, basically smaller scale gameplay.

It looks like a fun concept, only, the combat looks very basic.

That and I fell for the voice command crap back with SOCOM Navy Seals , and that was dire.

RTS work yes, but in its most basic form.

It looks like a fun concept, only, the combat looks very basic.

That and I fell for the voice command crap back with SOCOM Navy Seals , and that was dire.

RTS work yes, but in its most basic form.

Meu2k7

Its only a work in rogress. But I think that if people like this, then maybe they should out this toghether with a keyboard with consoles. so you can have deeper gameplay and the speed of just being able to tell all your reinforcements to go somewhere.

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"]

It looks like a fun concept, only, the combat looks very basic.

That and I fell for the voice command crap back with SOCOM Navy Seals , and that was dire.

RTS work yes, but in its most basic form.

NinjaMunkey01

Its only a work in rogress. But I think that if people like this, then maybe they should out this toghether with a keyboard with consoles. so you can have deeper gameplay and the speed of just being able to tell all your reinforcements to go somewhere.

Maybe when Microsoft Finlay decide to let people use keyboards in their games this will happen, they really need to stop forcing Dev's to use first party accessories.

the pc-elist are gonna tear u apartDante2710

I dont mind if they do, I was hoping a pc gamer would come as not being a pc gamer I cant think of all the faults voice command could have.

[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"]

It looks like a fun concept, only, the combat looks very basic.

That and I fell for the voice command crap back with SOCOM Navy Seals , and that was dire.

RTS work yes, but in its most basic form.

mario_gamer

Its only a work in rogress. But I think that if people like this, then maybe they should out this toghether with a keyboard with consoles. so you can have deeper gameplay and the speed of just being able to tell all your reinforcements to go somewhere.

Maybe when Microsoft Finlay decide to let people use keyboards in their games this will happen, they really need to stop forcing Dev's to use first party accessories.

I know the ps3 can use keyboards, which is why i will get the game for the ps3. But I guess ms does not see the point. But the ps3 uses linux and a web browser so its needed.

Yes they work, though if you want a rough idea of how they compare to PC versions:

CnC3 scored 9 on the PC and 8.7 on the 360.

The PC has many times more RTS games than the 360.

More RTS games = higher RTS standard.

Yes they work, though if you want a rough idea of how they compare to PC versions:

CnC3 scored 9 on the PC and 8.7 on the 360.

The PC has many times more RTS games than the 360.

More RTS games = higher RTS standard.

aliblabla2007

so there was not much difference between the 2 then.

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]the pc-elist are gonna tear u apartNinjaMunkey01

I dont mind if they do, I was hoping a pc gamer would come as not being a pc gamer I cant think of all the faults voice command could have.

Voice commands could have a few problems i can think of, I'm no expert, but my accent very often in not recognised by the software and there will probably be a very limited number of commands.

RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.tmntPunchout

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

man I wanna see how all these "built from the ground up on a console" rts games work outSonir77

same here. I really like RTS games but dont want to spend loads of money to buy a better pc that will play these games to their best.

also I think it would be much more fun to watch the battle on a large tv, than a monitor.

I know that a c can connect to a tv but most people dont as then ou can use both at once.

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.NinjaMunkey01

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

It really comes down to the Dev's then and how much time they spent adding phrases to the database, that's what will make or break this game.

[QUOTE="Sonir77"]man I wanna see how all these "built from the ground up on a console" rts games work outNinjaMunkey01

same here. I really like RTS games but dont want to spend loads of money to buy a better pc that will play these games to their best.

also I think it would be much more fun to watch the battle on a large tv, than a monitor.

I know that a c can connect to a tv but most people dont as then ou can use both at once.

Personally I prefer a moniter for stratergy games, Big Screens and couches are to relaxing when I have an empire to manage.

Alot of best rts games dont require great pc's to

[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.mario_gamer

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

It really comes down to the Dev's then and how much time they spent adding phrases to the database, that's what will make or break this game.

that is something I was thinking.

On the video it seems good, apparently it was easy to use.

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.NinjaMunkey01

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

Well, you do have a point I guess, but micromanaging is a big part of a lot of RTS games, so it'll be a lot more difficult than real wartime situations.. Do you really expect to win in an RTS by just saying units push to point a and secure it? How are you supposed to group specific units together and just call upon them. Even in starcraft, I had at least 6 groups all the time. With the death of units, rebuilding of units, and so on, how are you supposed to do everything that quick. Multiple bases may also seem to be a problem unless the game recognizes if you say 'command center 1' compared to 'command center 2' or which barracks you want to build from if you have multiple barracks and where you want to autosend those units. There just seems way to much voice commands the game would need to register and with the lack of hotkeys, it really will be difficult to do that many actions.

[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]

[QUOTE="Sonir77"]man I wanna see how all these "built from the ground up on a console" rts games work outSonir77

same here. I really like RTS games but dont want to spend loads of money to buy a better pc that will play these games to their best.

also I think it would be much more fun to watch the battle on a large tv, than a monitor.

I know that a c can connect to a tv but most people dont as then ou can use both at once.

Personally I prefer a moniter for stratergy games, Big Screens and couches are to relaxing when I have an empire to manage.

Alot of best rts games dont require great pc's to

lol.

Ine thing they should no do is have loads of resources. Just have one or so.

On tiberium wars it made micromagament less of a problem. and it made getting the tiberium more important and it takes agres to regrow.

I remember i would let the scrin faction take a tiberium mound, they have the tech to make it grow faster, then i would take it back.

[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.tmntPunchout

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

Well, you do have a point I guess, but micromanaging is a big part of a lot of RTS games, so it'll be a lot more difficult than real wartime situations.. Do you really expect to win in an RTS by just saying units push to point a and secure it? How are you supposed to group specific units together and just call upon them. Even in starcraft, I had at least 6 groups all the time. With the death of units, rebuilding of units, and so on, how are you supposed to do everything that quick. Multiple bases may also seem to be a problem unless the game recognizes if you say 'command center 1' compared to 'command center 2' or which barracks you want to build from if you have multiple barracks and where you want to autosend those units. There just seems way to much voice commands the game would need to register and with the lack of hotkeys, it really will be difficult to do that many actions.

different units have different munbers so you say 2unit 4 to foxtrot" or something.

I think you might be able to say gunships to a point. But the problem with that is you might want some to go in one place and some to another.

if you could group units toghether to make a unit. like some snipers, soilders and rocket men, with a tank that could be a unit. so it could be done that way.

With the barracks thing I dont know. maybe you could link commands like "base one, make 3 tanks" or something. how it will regognise a base I dont know.

[QUOTE="mario_gamer"][QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.NinjaMunkey01

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

It really comes down to the Dev's then and how much time they spent adding phrases to the database, that's what will make or break this game.

that is something I was thinking.

On the video it seems good, apparently it was easy to use.

Well if it works well then i will look into buying this game, do we know its release date?

[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"][QUOTE="mario_gamer"][QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]RTS junkies are all about actions per minute right? Considering this alone will make this a big downgrade compared to PC Rts. How many actions are you able to do with a talking/controller mechanic, I'm guessing maybe half or less than you could w/ a KB/M.mario_gamer

The way i see it there is loads you can say. Otherwise in a real wartime situation how does the commander tell his troops what to do? I doubt he sands the soilders a text message.

the way I see it there is loads you could say. Just as much as with a eyboard. what sort of thing do you think would not be possible with voice?

It really comes down to the Dev's then and how much time they spent adding phrases to the database, that's what will make or break this game.

that is something I was thinking.

On the video it seems good, apparently it was easy to use.

Well if it works well then i will look into buying this game, do we know its release date?

On gamespot its Q4 2008.

its definately coming out this year.

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

Yes they work, though if you want a rough idea of how they compare to PC versions:

CnC3 scored 9 on the PC and 8.7 on the 360.

The PC has many times more RTS games than the 360.

More RTS games = higher RTS standard.

NinjaMunkey01

so there was not much difference between the 2 then.

Uh no. Aside from controls, CnC3 is not really different from the PC version. But just think how much worse the 360 controls are if it can still score lower with much much lower standards. You can argue that the time difference creates a standard, but CnC3 360 wasn't released much later than the PC version - you need several months minimum for standards to drop significantly.

And yet it will still wont compare to all the PC RTSs out there.

Why do people even bother comparing? Its like saying PC fighter genre vs console fighter genre.

Oh and we all know how 'great' voice control has been in every game that has used it. There is a reason its used in next to no technology, let alone games.

In an RTS it could very well be a disaster.
Quite frankly Macro Keys > Voice chat.

Fact is until consoles get a better controller input, better communities, use made content and title developer support the genre isnt going anywhere.

A controller cannot compare to a mouse and keyboard in RTS games.

As for voice commands, I doubt that will work effectively either. Especially when you consider large battles where many units, special abilities and commands need to be micromanaged. Your mouth cannot move as fast as your hands and unless they have a great voice recognition program, you're just not going to be able to properly manage your units. Even if the voice recognition is the greatest that can possibly be created at this time, it still will not be able to recognize and isolate phrases fast enough of which you'd need to issue them in an RTS that calls for micromanagement of any degree.

I have no idea why c&C wasn't released on wii. the remote and nunchuck seem perfect for the wii

I found the controller to hard to use and gave up on the 360

richest_boy

Because its more powerful than the wii

And yet it will still wont compare to all the PC FPSs out there.

Why do people even bother comparing? Its like saying PC fighter genre vs console fighter genre.

Oh and we all know how 'great' voice control has been in every game that has used it. There is a reason its used in next to no technology, let alone games.

In an RTS it could very well be a disaster.
Quite frankly Macro Keys > Voice chat.

Fact is until consoles get a better controller input, better communities, use made content and title developer support the genre isnt going anywhere.

skrat_01

Even if they get those though, the RTS genre will still be more limited on consoles. User content can only go as far as the hardware allows it to - there is a certain amount of RAM a mod can use before you have to stop developing new content. And the PC, as the system which always has the most RAM no matter what, is the ideal hardware for users to create content. It's just unlimited in that respect - wait and your user content potential increases.

Developers - consoles have EA, Massive and GPG doing (questionable) port jobs - though the PC still has the true great strategy developers - Relic, Blizzard, Stardock, Creative Assembly, etc..

the real test will be how well is stands up to the big 3 coming out this year, red alert 3, starcraft 2 and empire: total war.mario_gamer

true, if endwar is not good I willget red aleart 3 instead.

A controller cannot compare to a mouse and keyboard in RTS games.

As for voice commands, I doubt that will work effectively either. Especially when you consider large battles where many units, special abilities and commands need to be micromanaged. Your mouth cannot move as fast as your hands and unless they have a great voice recognition program, you're just not going to be able to properly manage your units. Even if the voice recognition is the greatest that can possibly be created at this time, it still will not be able to recognize and isolate phrases fast enough of which you'd need to issue them in an RTS that calls for micromanagement of any degree.

Thompsonwhore

Did you watch the video? its might not be as good as a keyboard, but it still works.

also there are things you can do MUCH quicker with voice commad than a keyboard. all you have to do is speak.

Plus i think that this will be easier than a keyboard so it wil bring new people to the genre.

I think the best option will be keyboard AND voice command. and since the ps3 can use a keyboard this game might do very well.

Can it manage 300+ APM?

If no, bad consoles.

The thing is, not all rts games are the same. There is a large gap between rts games like bfmeII and rts games like coh. In the slower rts games, the consoles can do well, but if you are dealing with an rts that requires awesomesauce micro, then you wont get very far. For example, dawn of war would be a nightmare with a gamepad.

Then there are the ram munching rts games that also wouldn't do very well...

Can it manage 300+ APM?

If no, bad consoles.

thrones

Yea... this.

If this game is even close to PC rts this will be a huge step forward, I think the future of console rts is to do things like this and to take a different path to PC rts rather than try and duplicate it.mario_gamer

Endwar is on the PC aswell I believe.

[QUOTE="mario_gamer"]If this game is even close to PC rts this will be a huge step forward, I think the future of console rts is to do things like this and to take a different path to PC rts rather than try and duplicate it.Meu2k7

Endwar is on the PC aswell I believe.

Really? Well i doubt it will do very well there, it should defiantly stick to consoles because this year on PC it just can't compete.

If this game is even close to PC rts this will be a huge step forward, I think the future of console rts is to do things like this and to take a different path to PC rts rather than try and duplicate it.mario_gamer

Console RTS right now isnt a dead horse, a semi decayed horse. It needs the gangrene infected areas amputated stat.

lack of KB+M = forever crippled. sorry consoles :(thegoldenpoo

what about KB+M+VC?