SC: Conviction is not a stealth / good game (list of reasons why)

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"]

These claims of "redefining" the stealth genre is just bull crap. If this is what stealth games are going to be in the future, I am NEVER buying one again. It's pathetic... and here is my list.

1. Regenerating health for the first time in a SC game Double Agent
2. Can't hide bodies Doesn't fit with new gameplay tbh
3. No sound meter Not necessary, silent crouch
4. No light meter Black and white system
5. Because no light meter, dynamic shadow cover is gone, so it's either they see you, or they don't. Fair point, I don't like this.
6. Whistling has been removed Sticky cam music, whistling wasn't ever realistic
7. Silhouette shows your last known location, basically showing you where you shouldn't be It's to help newbs who get detected
8. You only have on suppressed gun (if you didn't order the Gamestop pre-order) Shotgun is not only supressed gun.
9. No more stalking animations Yes there is, go right behind an enemy and Sam will change his stance.
10. On that note, no more sneaking animations at all ^
11. No more knife Not necessary, it's superflous with the awesome Krav Maga takedowns.
12. Only one speed of moving while crouching - briskly yep
13. No more interrogating of random characters, but only of "key" characters to progress story yep, but it's much more cinematic and fun.
14. No more "codec" convos with your support team This isn't MGS, what are you talking about?
15. Which means... Team Banter is gone. Huh?
16. Encourages shooting and killing everything (Mark and Execute is the most obvious example) Yep, sam is pissed he doesn't care.
17. No more whitty humor from Sam Just not true.
18. 5 hour single campaign Hmm, when did you play?
19. One entire mission from the campaign is a flashback to Iraq, meaning no stealth at all Diversity.
20. Spy vs Merc is gone Never played it, but fair enough.

What kind of games are we promoting these days? SC was one of my favorite franchises, and this happens? Tell me what you think.

110million

If you get behind someone Sam does look like he is preparing for the kill. And LKP won't affect you or me.

I like the idea of the new stealth system, i'm just not happy that some things from the old one didn't survive the change.

Stealth isn't just about creeping about. A Tiger is stealthy, and yet when it wants to, much like Sam it can tear people apart.

Previously SC games used stealth as THE main element, the only way to succeed. The new SC used stealth as an additional element to action game.

-Snooze-

Im gonna go ahead and counter everything you said with one sentence.

You havent played the game yet.

[QUOTE="93soccer"]You should learn to accept changes. Otherwise, every game would "feel" the sameJuggernaut140

I can't reiterate this enough, splinter cell was never near "hardcore". It's pretty easy.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"] Regardless of me not playing the game yet, essential things for a stealth game is gone. Any concept or previous mechanic for sound/light is gone. What type of game is this now? It's an action game. Hell, even MGS4 wasn't this bad. Yeah, MGS4 you can shoot anyone with rockets if you really wanted, but to eventually hide, you had to legitimately hide. Shadows don't hide you in MGS4, and the game doesn't tell you "hey, they know you are here." So even in its most "stealth" form, SCC isn't a stealth game.tophustler

It took a dude 5 hours to complete on this third playthrough? I don't see the problem.

How long was UC1? UC2? GOW3? Not long games ... All aside from UC2 have less replayablity then SC

-Snooze-

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"]

These claims of "redefining" the stealth genre is just bull crap. If this is what stealth games are going to be in the future, I am NEVER buying one again. It's pathetic... and here is my list.

1. Regenerating health for the first time in a SC game Double Agent
2. Can't hide bodies Doesn't fit with new gameplay tbh
3. No sound meter Not necessary, silent crouch
4. No light meter Black and white system
5. Because no light meter, dynamic shadow cover is gone, so it's either they see you, or they don't. Fair point, I don't like this.
6. Whistling has been removed Sticky cam music, whistling wasn't ever realistic
7. Silhouette shows your last known location, basically showing you where you shouldn't be It's to help newbs who get detected
8. You only have on suppressed gun (if you didn't order the Gamestop pre-order) Shotgun is not only supressed gun.
9. No more stalking animations Yes there is, go right behind an enemy and Sam will change his stance.
10. On that note, no more sneaking animations at all ^
11. No more knife Not necessary, it's superflous with the awesome Krav Maga takedowns.
12. Only one speed of moving while crouching - briskly yep
13. No more interrogating of random characters, but only of "key" characters to progress story yep, but it's much more cinematic and fun.
14. No more "codec" convos with your support team This isn't MGS, what are you talking about?
15. Which means... Team Banter is gone. Huh?
16. Encourages shooting and killing everything (Mark and Execute is the most obvious example) Yep, sam is pissed he doesn't care.
17. No more whitty humor from Sam Just not true.
18. 5 hour single campaign Hmm, when did you play?
19. One entire mission from the campaign is a flashback to Iraq, meaning no stealth at all Diversity.
20. Spy vs Merc is gone Never played it, but fair enough.

What kind of games are we promoting these days? SC was one of my favorite franchises, and this happens? Tell me what you think.

110million

umm well it's called "stalking" for a reason. No point in walking in a "stalking" animation if you aren't actually stalking anybody.

I'm happy with the changes being made - otherwise I wouldn't be planning on buying this game. The old formula was great, but I don't need to keep doing the same old thing in a different setting. I really don't think they could have kept it fresh if it was the same old light-shooting, whistling action from before. There is much more variety in the gameplay now.

I agree, but you took it a bit too far. Chaos Theory was in my opinion the highest point for the series, the point of perfection. There is also the fact that if the developers dont change enough, the gamers call it a rehash and complain, and if they change it too much, they get even more complains from the fans of the serious.Deevelopers end up in a no win situation when doing sequels imo.

A perfect example of what im talking about is RE4 and RE5.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"] Regardless of me not playing the game yet, essential things for a stealth game is gone. Any concept or previous mechanic for sound/light is gone. What type of game is this now? It's an action game. Hell, even MGS4 wasn't this bad. Yeah, MGS4 you can shoot anyone with rockets if you really wanted, but to eventually hide, you had to legitimately hide. Shadows don't hide you in MGS4, and the game doesn't tell you "hey, they know you are here." So even in its most "stealth" form, SCC isn't a stealth game.tophustler

[QUOTE="millerlight89"] Why would they feel the need to give it a high score? Its simple, they enjoyed the game more apparently.SquatsAreAwesom

What? O_o

I think people should accept the changes and move on. If you can not accept them then do not buy the game. I am upset with the removal of a few things, but it seems to be a solid game from what I am hearing.millerlight89

I just wish folks would stop pretending that the only alternative to Conviction would have been the "same old stuff but in a different setting".

So basically you are saying that because it isn't like every other Splinter Cell game it's bad. That's nonsense. You cannot say "These things are what make a game a stealth game" and define that absolutely as a stealth game. Hell, if you did that then MGS isn't a stealth series.

Both MGS 4 and Splinter Cell have ALWAYS been action games with stealth mechanics. Splinter Cell has been more stealth based than MGS (IMO) but as the producers have said MULTIPLE times, Sam Fisher no longer works for Third Echelon and his tactics have changed.

Time for you to get over it.

heretrix

So basically you are saying that because it isn't like every other Splinter Cell game it's bad. That's nonsense. You cannot say "These things are what make a game a stealth game" and define that absolutely as a stealth game. Hell, if you did that then MGS isn't a stealth series.

Both MGS 4 and Splinter Cell have ALWAYS been action games with stealth mechanics. Splinter Cell has been more stealth based than MGS (IMO) but as the producers have said MULTIPLE times, Sam Fisher no longer works for Third Echelon and his tactics have changed.

Time for you to get over it.

heretrix

really? you can't absolutly define a stealth game? but you can define SCC as an action game with stealth mechanics. I'd love to see your explanation on how this is not a contradiction.

Im gonna go ahead and counter everything you said with one sentence.

You havent played the game yet.

Fizzman

Why does everyone think that if something changes or evolves, it has to be for the worst. Sure a lot of gameplay elements you're used to have been tossed out, but that's not to say plenty of new mechanics have been added in their place, or that the absence of the old mechanics somehow makes the game worse. So what if you can't hide bodies, is that really what made Splinter Cell fun for you? Do you really want stealth games to be Chaos Theory for the rest of time? Probably not. That would get old after a while. The SC series (and perhaps the stealth game genre as a whole) is evolving, and while I can't speak for the quality of Conviction, the evolution of the series as a whole doesn't make Conviction inherently bad.

No Spies vs. Mercs sucks big time, though.

WTA2k5

I don't think every change is for the worse, I think, as a stealth game, the changes they made are for the worse. Yes, some of the things I listed are just things that I'm sad they wont include, like lambert (he was one of my favorite characters, and i actually enjoyed it when fisher and lambert talked). I loved the first 4 games (not the 360 version of double agent though, i enjoyed the xbox/ps2 version). For some, that game was painstakingly slow, but I loved it. I got a rush from someone being 3 feet from me as I was moving only enough to get close to him to take him out. It was a rush to pick up the bodies before his buddy would come back around on his little route so no one would find him. It was a rush when you get caught, resorting to palming the dudes nose into his face as you then did your best to get away... not by shooting them. Me dying in 2 or 3 hits? That's what I enjoy. A challenge. Every old style SC game (once again.. meaning this excludes DA for 360) I have beaten on the hardest difficulty with no kills. It's a great series. Well, it was. I wont participate in this series if they continue it this way. Tom Clancy games have always been about being tactical and clean, not sloppy and murderous.

These claims of "redefining" the stealth genre is just bull crap. If this is what stealth games are going to be in the future, I am NEVER buying one again. It's pathetic... and here is my list.

1. Regenerating health for the first time in a SC game
2. Can't hide bodies
3. No sound meter
4. No light meter
5. Because no light meter, dynamic shadow cover is gone, so it's either they see you, or they don't.
6. Whistling has been removed
7. Silhouette shows your last known location, basically showing you where you shouldn't be
8. You only have on suppressed gun (if you didn't order the Gamestop pre-order)
9. No more stalking animations
10. On that note, no more sneaking animations at all
11. No more knife
12. Only one speed of moving while crouching - briskly
13. No more interrogating of random characters, but only of "key" characters to progress story
14. No more "codec" convos with your support team
15. Which means... Team Banter is gone.
16. Encourages shooting and killing everything (Mark and Execute is the most obvious example)
17. No more whitty humor from Sam
18. 5 hour single campaign
19. One entire mission from the campaign is a flashback to Iraq, meaning no stealth at all
20. Spy vs Merc is gone

What kind of games are we promoting these days? SC was one of my favorite franchises, and this happens? Tell me what you think.

zero_snake99

ubisoft :evil:

so thats another franchise theyve butchered. add it to the list

I agree, but you took it a bit too far. Chaos Theory was in my opinion the highest point for the series, the point of perfection. There is also the fact that if the developers dont change enough, the gamers call it a rehash and complain, and if they change it too much, they get even more complains from the fans of the serious.Deevelopers end up in a no win situation when doing sequels imo.

A perfect example of what im talking about is RE4 and RE5.

Dante2710

[QUOTE="rickatick"]2 reasons why people should ignore this topic you haven't played the game your a cowzero_snake99

Lol. Pure ownage.:P

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

Im gonna go ahead and counter everything you said with one sentence.

You havent played the game yet.

zero_snake99

It's a good thing it moved away from the stealth paced gameplay, it's like how RE4 re-invented the series in a good way. I can't believe people complain when devs repeat the same old gameplay but then complain when they try something new. I take action over slow-paced stealth. themyth01

this flop made me hate gaming as a whole

I think people should accept the changes and move on. If you can not accept them then do not buy the game. I am upset with the removal of a few things, but it seems to be a solid game from what I am hearing.millerlight89

[QUOTE="tophustler"][QUOTE="millerlight89"] Except MGS4 gameplay/gunplay is really not that great.

What's this nonsense of MGS4 not being a stealth game? Big Boss emblem would like a HUGE word with you...

These claims of "redefining" the stealth genre is just bull crap. If this is what stealth games are going to be in the future, I am NEVER buying one again. It's pathetic... and here is my list.

1. Regenerating health for the first time in a SC game
2. Can't hide bodies
3. No sound meter
4. No light meter
5. Because no light meter, dynamic shadow cover is gone, so it's either they see you, or they don't.
6. Whistling has been removed
7. Silhouette shows your last known location, basically showing you where you shouldn't be
8. You only have on suppressed gun (if you didn't order the Gamestop pre-order)
9. No more stalking animations
10. On that note, no more sneaking animations at all
11. No more knife
12. Only one speed of moving while crouching - briskly
13. No more interrogating of random characters, but only of "key" characters to progress story
14. No more "codec" convos with your support team
15. Which means... Team Banter is gone.
16. Encourages shooting and killing everything (Mark and Execute is the most obvious example)
17. No more whitty humor from Sam
18. 5 hour single campaign
19. One entire mission from the campaign is a flashback to Iraq, meaning no stealth at all
20. Spy vs Merc is gone

What kind of games are we promoting these days? SC was one of my favorite franchises, and this happens? Tell me what you think.

zero_snake99

And yet, it still almost as stealth as MGS4. Both terrible games, one however won't be terribly overrated.

-Snooze-

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

And yet, it still almost as stealth as MGS4. Both terrible games, one however won't be terribly overrated.

blazinpuertoroc

These claims of "redefining" the stealth genre is just bull crap. If this is what stealth games are going to be in the future, I am NEVER buying one again. It's pathetic... and here is my list.

1. Regenerating health for the first time in a SC game
2. Can't hide bodies
3. No sound meter
4. No light meter
5. Because no light meter, dynamic shadow cover is gone, so it's either they see you, or they don't.
6. Whistling has been removed
7. Silhouette shows your last known location, basically showing you where you shouldn't be
8. You only have on suppressed gun (if you didn't order the Gamestop pre-order)
9. No more stalking animations
10. On that note, no more sneaking animations at all
11. No more knife
12. Only one speed of moving while crouching - briskly
13. No more interrogating of random characters, but only of "key" characters to progress story
14. No more "codec" convos with your support team
15. Which means... Team Banter is gone.
16. Encourages shooting and killing everything (Mark and Execute is the most obvious example)
17. No more whitty humor from Sam
18. 5 hour single campaign
19. One entire mission from the campaign is a flashback to Iraq, meaning no stealth at all
20. Spy vs Merc is gone

What kind of games are we promoting these days? SC was one of my favorite franchises, and this happens? Tell me what you think.

zero_snake99

All things you listed actually make the game much better :D

How does one play the co-op in this game? Online or with a person right next to you?

[QUOTE="millerlight89"] Why would they feel the need to give it a high score? Its simple, they enjoyed the game more apparently.SquatsAreAwesom

cash rules everything around me

93

anyway most of the stuff tc listed as the good features of an sc game (light meter and team banter, lol) were garbage. splinter cell games were never 'hardcore'.

i must say removal of spy vs mercs is unfortunate but the new co op is amazing

[QUOTE="blazinpuertoroc"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

And yet, it still almost as stealth as MGS4. Both terrible games, one however won't be terribly overrated.

darthkirmy